Re: [css-d] New and way less than confident
Hi Morgana! With the advent of IE7, CSS 2.1 is now quite well supported in modern browsers, but unfortunately IE6 is likely to remain the majority browser for several years yet :-( Apart from its many layout bugs (eg the ones detailed at http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer.html) IE6 doesn't support advanced selectors like p a, p + p, a[href], etc - rendering them next to useless apart from little styling 'treats' for people using more standards-compliant browsers. More seriously, it doesn't support the properties min-/max-height/width, content and probably more. Some people here may object to the recommendation, but I found Dreamweaver MX2004 (in code mode) very useful when I was learning CSS, as it has a nice autocomplete feature, and warns about differing browser support. Welcome to the exciting and only occasionally infuriating world of CSS! Chris On 11/28/06, Morgana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm sure this has been asked hundreds of times, but as I'm new, please forgive the repetition. What's the safest css version to work with at the current time, given the varying degrees of browser support... IOW, should I stick with CSS earlier than 2, to assure the broadest support? If this is laid out somewhere for me to simply read about, please feel free to point me in the right direction, and I'll read up. Many thanks from a longtime designer, but too-new css 'jockey'. - Jean PS: Are there any BrowserCam groups here wanting another member? If so, please contact me off-list. Please excuse req, and thanks again. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/ -- Chris Ovenden http://thepeer.blogspot.com Imagine all the people / Sharing all the world __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] New and way less than confident
Chris Ovenden wrote: unfortunately IE6 is likely to remain the majority browser for several years yet :-( Several years yet? IE7 is now a Microsoft recommended download, and virtually all PCs for sale post-January ship with Vista, and, inherently, IE7. The next couple of months will be very telling, but I reckon things may be about to change. A lot of arrogant developers(TM) I know are telling me I'm an idiot to still spend so much time spoon-feeding IE6, and argue that I should just tell my clients that they should be looking at things with IE7. Of course, I can't quite take this idea seriously. Some people here may object to the recommendation, but I found Dreamweaver MX2004 (in code mode) very useful when I was learning CSS, as it has a nice autocomplete feature, and warns about differing browser support. I'm one of those who'd go against Dreamweaver because I consider it a very bloated program that detracts you from the real nuts and bolts of your product. The auto-complete and browser support warnings are useful, and if you want these I recommend a far better program that is absolutely non-bloated and purpose-built for css: Paul Young's StyleSpread. It's in beta right now and is set to get even better, plus it's free. Windows-only, but then if you're a css designer without Windows you have far bigger things to worry (or not worry) about! http://www.stylespread.com Regards, Barney __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] New and way less than confident
On 11/29/06, Barney Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris Ovenden wrote: unfortunately IE6 is likely to remain the majority browser for several years yet :-( Several years yet? IE7 is now a Microsoft recommended download, and virtually all PCs for sale post-January ship with Vista, and, inherently, IE7. The next couple of months will be very telling, but I reckon things may be about to change. A lot of arrogant developers(TM) I know are telling me I'm an idiot to still spend so much time spoon-feeding IE6, and argue that I should just tell my clients that they should be looking at things with IE7. Of course, I can't quite take this idea seriously. I really would like to ditch IE6 support, except as a degraded-but--still-functional experience, but sadly the upgrade to IE7 is not an option for most Windows users, as it only works on XP SP2 - currently standing at about 23% of web users worldwide. (And of these, how many are legitimate? IE7 also comes with the hated WGA check.) I hope I'm wrong, though. http://www.stylespread.com Gonna check that out. Thanks! -- Chris Ovenden http://thepeer.blogspot.com Imagine all the people / Sharing all the world __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] New and way less than confident
Enterprises often wait a long time before upgrading browsers as part of their Current Operating Environment plans and protocols. What I have experienced over the years is that a new browser will be welcomed by the general community, but the IT departments of the (figurative) GE's, Citibank's, ATT's etc. often take months to years to authorize an update. Large corporations have policy-driven updating for their computers instead of the typical click here for updates link. So in turn, we end up with a general update acceptance, with a few 800-pound Gorillas (with all the money) holding it back. -- Morgana, Regarding the main question, for general web sites, 2.1 seems to be the norm now. Erik Meyer's book More Eric Meyer on CSS is a great book to start. It's a few years old but the clarity is excellent and the lessons are very retainable and can be applied to many daily CSS tasks. Stylin' with CSS is a good book too, which does a simple, no-frills, to-the-point instruction on building a proper, CSS-driven accessible web site. The CSS Zen Garden book is a neat design book to have and shows interesting tricks people use, but can sometimes be impractical as the Zen Garden project only involves one page of content. Bulletproof Web Design by Dan Cederholm is a great book on ensuring the site is built not to break, and to be accessible to all. Alistapart.com is a fantastic site of a-list authors giving away their secrets. and dont forget positioniseverything.net which will explain why your CSS isn't displaying correctly on certain browsers and how to fix it (ironically the site looks better with the CSS turned off, but don't let that scare you--they really know what they're explaining on that site) Hope that helps, Court Chris Ovenden wrote: On 11/29/06, Barney Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris Ovenden wrote: unfortunately IE6 is likely to remain the majority browser for several years yet :-( Several years yet? IE7 is now a Microsoft recommended download, and virtually all PCs for sale post-January ship with Vista, and, inherently, IE7. The next couple of months will be very telling, but I reckon things may be about to change. A lot of arrogant developers(TM) I know are telling me I'm an idiot to still spend so much time spoon-feeding IE6, and argue that I should just tell my clients that they should be looking at things with IE7. Of course, I can't quite take this idea seriously. I really would like to ditch IE6 support, except as a degraded-but--still-functional experience, but sadly the upgrade to IE7 is not an option for most Windows users, as it only works on XP SP2 - currently standing at about 23% of web users worldwide. (And of these, how many are legitimate? IE7 also comes with the hated WGA check.) I hope I'm wrong, though. http://www.stylespread.com Gonna check that out. Thanks! __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] New and way less than confident
Hi, I'm sure this has been asked hundreds of times, but as I'm new, please forgive the repetition. What's the safest css version to work with at the current time, given the varying degrees of browser support... IOW, should I stick with CSS earlier than 2, to assure the broadest support? If this is laid out somewhere for me to simply read about, please feel free to point me in the right direction, and I'll read up. Many thanks from a longtime designer, but too-new css 'jockey'. - Jean PS: Are there any BrowserCam groups here wanting another member? If so, please contact me off-list. Please excuse req, and thanks again. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
