[css-d] Problem hiding menu items just in Google Chrome
Trying to hide the home link on main page of webpage I am working on. The home link being hidden seems to work fine on all browsers (IE, Firefox, Opera, Safari) except Chrome. On Chrome the home link is not hidden. I have tried using display: none and also position: absolute along with left: -px; Either of these work fine in all other browsers except Chrome. Is there some additional element needed as a work-around for Chrome?...Not sure I have ever had an issue like this with Chrome before. Also...is it wrong to use the display: none for things like this? I read where this is frowned upon but it seems to be pretty widely used. Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions! __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
On Wed, 19 May 2010, David Laakso wrote: ... Verdana was ditched because it is pug ugly -- particularly at default or greater than default. That is not true. Many people like Verdana. They prefer it over other fonts because it is more legible. -- Chris F.A. Johnson, http://cfajohnson.com Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress) Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
Hi Chris, Verdana was ditched because it is pug ugly -- particularly at default or greater than default. That is not true. Many people like Verdana. They prefer it over other fonts because it is more legible. It may be more legible at *small size*, but as David said increase the size and it gets ugly. http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/18/verdana-pro-and-con-2/ A green version :) http://davidsimpson.me/2009/03/23/verdana-must-die-for-the-good-of-the-plane t/ -- Regards, Thierry www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Problem with menu bar
on both the pages below, the top menu bar (thick gray with thinner gray bar underneath it) are meant to extend to the right to infinity, but on the first of the two links below, Safari gets a horizontal scroll bar and scrolling to the right shows the menu bar visibly ending. Not so on page number 2, below. I have looked at the code and I can not see the reason for this. Now, I am not sure that I properly coded the go to the right forever property of this menu bar, but why does one page behave differently than the other one? Both use the same css style sheet, and that code up at the top is different, save only the image at the top, and they are identical pixel dimensions. thank you for any insight! John http://www.coffeeonmars.com/dez.html and http://www.coffeeonmars.com/two.html __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
on both the pages below, the top menu bar (thick gray with thinner gray bar underneath it) are meant to extend to the right to infinity, but on the first of the two links below, Safari gets a horizontal scroll bar and scrolling to the right shows the menu bar visibly ending. Not so on page number 2, below. I have looked at the code and I can not see the reason for this. Now, I am not sure that I properly coded the go to the right forever property of this menu bar, but why does one page behave differently than the other one? Both use the same css style sheet, and that code up at the top is different, save only the image at the top, and they are identical pixel dimensions. thank you for any insight! That's because your last image on that page is 1279 pixel wide -- Regards, Thierry www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
On May 19, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: That's because your last image on that page is 1279 pixel wide yeah...it's a big boy, isn't it? ;-) so, is the remedy to ammend the code on that page, or is a 1279 pixel wide image just plain ridiculous? feel free to be frank in your response; I can take it. thanks! John __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
so, is the remedy to ammend the code on that page, or is a 1279 pixel wide image just plain ridiculous? In marsB.css, line 27 Delete the width: 600px; (or change to min-width: 600px). That will let the paragraph expand to fit your image, which will in turn make the page expand to fit the paragraph, and your menu go all the way to the edge. As it stands, your image is hanging off the edge of the page, and you can only see the whole thing because the browser is being nice to you. ---Tim __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
John wrote:
thank you for any insight!
John
http://www.coffeeonmars.com/dez.html
and
http://www.coffeeonmars.com/two.html
body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color: black;}
img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%; height:
auto;}
Best,
~d
--
desktop
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
mobile
http://chelseacreekstudio.mobi/
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
That's because your last image on that page is 1279 pixel wide yeah...it's a big boy, isn't it? ;-) so, is the remedy to ammend the code on that page, or is a 1279 pixel wide image just plain ridiculous? I don't know if it's ridiculous or not, but it is what triggers the scrollbar. So either you make that image smaller or you use overflow:hidden on the parent to cut it off (but then why using an image that big to begin with?). As a side note, you should use ALT attribute with every single image you insert in your documents. -- Regards, Thierry www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
To save your visitors from having to horizontal-scroll (which most of them will hate), why not stack the last two images vertically instead of horizontally ? Philip Taylor John wrote: http://www.coffeeonmars.com/dez.html __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
thank you for any insight!
John
http://www.coffeeonmars.com/dez.html
and
http://www.coffeeonmars.com/two.html
body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color: black;}
img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%;
height:
auto;}
Max-width is a nice touch but it does not work in IE6 :-(
--
Regards,
Thierry
www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
thank you for any insight!
John
http://www.coffeeonmars.com/dez.html
and
http://www.coffeeonmars.com/two.html
body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color: black;}
img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%;
height:
auto;}
Max-width is a nice touch but it does not work in IE6 :-(
--
Regards,
Thierry
www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz
Who cares?
~d
--
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http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
mobile
http://chelseacreekstudio.mobi/
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color:
black;}
img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%;
height:
auto;}
Max-width is a nice touch but it does not work in IE6 :-(
Who cares?
Actually, the problem is even bigger *because* of IE6.
Modern browsers would let large image stick out of containers, but IE6 will
expand the container.
With the OP's construct it may be no big deal, but in most cases it would
trigger a drop float.
Not that we should care, but - imho - we should let people know.
--
Regards,
Thierry
www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
On May 19, 2010, at 12:00 PM, David Laakso wrote:
body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color: black;}
img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%;
height:
auto;}
Best,
~d
thanks to all for the great suggestions. For now, I whacked the width
of that 1200 px wide image, but want to visit the code suggestions
made, including this bit above from the body declaration:
/*11px Verdana,*/100% - looks like you commented out 11px
Verdana, then added 100%..this is applied to all fonts, and indicates
the size OF the fonts?
John
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
John wrote:
On May 19, 2010, at 12:00 PM, David Laakso wrote:
body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color: black;}
img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%; height:
auto;}
Best,
~d
thanks to all for the great suggestions. For now, I whacked the width
of that 1200 px wide image, but want to visit the code suggestions
made, including this bit above from the body declaration:
/*11px Verdana,*/100% - looks like you commented out 11px Verdana,
then added 100%..this is applied to all fonts, and indicates the size
OF the fonts?
John
It is /a suggestion/ to set the content text at user default rather than
at your personal preference. If it were set in pixels at default it
would be 16px (but IE users have to jump through hoops -- put the
browser in accessibility mode -- to scale fonts set in pixels using the
5 font-size settings). And if it were set in em at default it would be
1em, in which case you would need to set font-size 100% on html, in
order to defeat an IE font-scaling bug.
Verdana was ditched because it is pug ugly -- particularly at default or
greater than default.
Most people ignore what I write about typography: do whatever does it
for you and yours.
Best,
~d
--
desktop
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
mobile
http://chelseacreekstudio.mobi/
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
David Laakso wrote: Verdana was ditched because it is pug ugly -- particularly at default or greater than default. How do you feel about Tahoma ? I prefer it to Verdana, and normally work at greater-than-default sizes. Philip Taylor __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
On May 19, 2010, at 3:21 PM, David Laakso wrote: Verdana was ditched because it is pug ugly -- particularly at default or greater than default. Thanks for shining a light on that..I had no idea those other measurement systems would cause such issue with IE users...seems IE is a usual suspect when it comes to things not working right. but as for Verdana being ditched because it is pug ugly - no argument there on it's aesthetic properties, but what it has (had?) going for it was its readability and presence on both mac and win platforms.' has this been thrown out the window? When I've seen Arial, especially on a windows pee cee, it wouldn't win no prizes for beauty either, but then windows often renders fonts with horrifying results. So...what's a rabbit to do? I can't have the faces I really want, so I use what I hope others will actually have... Is there another way? thanks! J __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar
John wrote: I can't have the faces I really want, so I use what I hope others will actually have... Is there another way? thanks! J We are off- topic with this [nothing to do with CSS] and I accept full responsibility and blame for that. Best, ~d -- desktop http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ mobile http://chelseacreekstudio.mobi/ __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Problem With Menu
Hi; I've got a css menu here: http://angrynates.com/nrelectric.com/ This works fine in FF but in IE, if you mouseover Services the font turns black and you can't mouseover the dropdown! It disappears before you can get there. What do? Please advise. TIA, Victor __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem With Menu
2009/11/14 Victor Subervi victorsube...@gmail.com: Hi; I've got a css menu here: http://angrynates.com/nrelectric.com/ This works fine in FF but in IE, if you mouseover Services the font turns black and you can't mouseover the dropdown! It disappears before you can get there. What do? Please advise. Start Correcting the 32 HTML errors, I've found validating the page. And look through the Script, running the Menu. There is an error around line 109. -- Regards / Mhv. Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem With Menu
From: Victor Subervi victorsube...@gmail.com
Hi;
I've got a css menu here:
http://angrynates.com/nrelectric.com/
This works fine in FF but in IE, if you mouseover Services the font
turns
black and you can't mouseover the dropdown! It disappears before you can
get
there. What do? Please advise.
In the future it would be helpful if you mentioned specific versions of IE
you having problems with.
Change this:
!--[if IE]
style type=text/css media=screen
#menu ul li {float: left; width: 100%;}
/style
![endif]--
To this:
!--[if lte IE 7]
style type=text/css media=screen
#menu ul li {float: left; width: 100%;}
/style
![endif]--
Then fix these errors:
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3a%2f%2fangrynates.com%2fnrelectric.com%2findex.py
and especially deal with the comment markers scattered about your menu
markup. What were you thinking there?
--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/apm
An Accessible Elegant Accordion
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu in IE7
Joe Polk wrote: David: I tried doing the thing that you said, but it looks way different in the other browsers: http://www.keystonees.com/new/about_us.html Can you tell me what I did wrong? Thanks in advance for your reply! Joe Man, you've got to be kidding :-) . I can't remember what I did this morning, muchless 14 days ago... Exactly what browser (s) get it right? And what are the browser (s) in which it looks way different? PS http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keystonees.com%2Fnew%2Fabout_us.html __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
[css-d] Problem with menu in IE7
I am currently working with a client on the following web site -- http://www.keystonees.com/new. For some reason, the menu bar (home, about, services, faq and contact) do not appear in IE7 but they appear on all other browsers. The CSS can be seen at http://www.keystonees.com/new/css/main.css. Any and all help figuring this out would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance! Joe __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu in IE7
try adding position:relative to the menu and or the header id. I am on linux so unfortunately cannot test if it will work, but I had a problem similar to this a while ago. __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu in IE7
On Wed, 13 May 2009 12:01:39 -0400, Joe Polk wrote: | I am currently working with a client on the following web site -- | http://www.keystonees.com/new. | | For some reason, the menu bar (home, about, services, faq and contact) do | not appear in IE7 but they appear on all other browsers. The CSS can be | seen at http://www.keystonees.com/new/css/main.css. | | Any and all help figuring this out would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in | advance! Start by fixing the 32 errors http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keystonees.com%2Fnew%2F -- Rasal Postill Dance your Life - Biodanza in Holland - http://www.danceyourlife.eu __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu in IE7
Subject: [css-d] Problem with menu in IE7 I am currently working with a client on the following web site -- http://www.keystonees.com/new. For some reason, the menu bar (home, about, services, faq and contact) do not appear in IE7 but they appear on all other browsers. The CSS can be seen at http://www.keystonees.com/new/css/main.css. Any and all help figuring this out would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance! 32 markup errors. Fix those first. http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.keystonees.com% 2Fnew%2F Cheers Ian iyes SEO Specialists __ css-discuss [cs...@lists.css-discuss.org] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu in IE7
Joe Polk wrote:
I am currently working with a client on the following web site --
http://www.keystonees.com/new.
For some reason, the menu bar (home, about, services, faq and contact) do
not appear in IE7 but they appear on all other browsers. The CSS can be
seen at http://www.keystonees.com/new/css/main.css.
Any and all help figuring this out would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in
advance!
Joe
Neither the CSS nor the markup is valid. And validating both will not
fix it. But you should validate the markup. And the invalid rule in the
CSS is not needed.
Reset these declarations to read ( and 6/7/8 will cooperate):
#header { width: 900px; height: 67px; margin: 0 auto; border:1px solid
red; position: relative;}
#menu {position: absolute; width: 445px;
overflow:hidden;/*vertical-align: top;*/ /*float: right;*/top:
0;right:0; padding: 0px 0 0 0; list-style: none; border:1px solid red;}
* html #menu {width: 500px;} /* 4 IE/6.0 */
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu in IE7 works in FF and IE6
Has anybody gotten a chance to look at this problem? Thanks, Parag On 2/1/07, Parag Jagdale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am having problems with a menu in IE7. I cant figure out the problem. Any help is appreciated. The web site is at: http://www.rgampadds.com You can find css files here: http://www.rgampadds.com/templates/wcf_template/styles/ structureStyle.css and menuStyle.css both involve the menu code. Thank You, Parag Jagdale www.un-identified.com __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu in IE7 works in FF and IE6
On 2007-02-02, at 09:49, Parag Jagdale wrote: [top posting corrected] On 2/1/07, Parag Jagdale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am having problems with a menu in IE7. I cant figure out the problem. Any help is appreciated. The web site is at: http://www.rgampadds.com You can find css files here: http://www.rgampadds.com/templates/wcf_template/styles/ structureStyle.css and menuStyle.css both involve the menu code. Has anybody gotten a chance to look at this problem? First validate your page before asking for help: Failed validation, 16 errors -- andree hollander __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu in IE7 works in FF and IE6
Parag Jagdale wrote: Has anybody gotten a chance to look at this problem? ;) On 2/1/07, Parag Jagdale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am having problems with a menu in IE7. I cant figure out the problem. Any help is appreciated. The web site is at: http://www.rgampadds.com You can find css files here: http://www.rgampadds.com/templates/wcf_template/styles/ structureStyle.css and menuStyle.css both involve the menu code. It is the situation we are demonstrating in Test B at http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/acidicfloat.html One of the wrappers of your menu, #menuVertical, has a fixed height of 24px (for whatever reason). It contains a float #menuVerticalwrap, which is taller. IE7 respects the given height and does not expand the wrapper like IE6 and below did. Actually, the floating child does stick out of the container like in modern browsers, but: the float is not visible to the following elements, even if they should clear the space under the float. Consecutive elements do not know anything about the wrapped float, they ignore it, which is plain wrong. I'd remove the height of 24px from #menuVertical, and use another haslayout trigger like zoom:1 instead (you need to add haslayout because its a relatively positioned element which would fade away without). regards, Ingo -- http://www.satzansatz.de/css.html __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] Problem with menu in IE7 works in FF and IE6
Ingo, Just removing the height on #menuVertical worked by itself! Thanks a lot! Parag Jagdale __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
