Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-20 Thread Thierry Koblentz 
Hi Chris,

> > Verdana was ditched because it is pug ugly -- particularly at default
> or
> > greater than default.
> 
>That is not true. Many people like Verdana. They prefer it over
>other fonts because it is more legible.

It may be more legible at *small size*, but as David said increase the size
and it gets ugly.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html
http://www.zeldman.com/2010/04/18/verdana-pro-and-con-2/

A green version :)
http://davidsimpson.me/2009/03/23/verdana-must-die-for-the-good-of-the-plane
t/

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Regards,
Thierry
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-20 Thread Chris F.A. Johnson 
On Wed, 19 May 2010, David Laakso wrote:
...
> Verdana was ditched because it is pug ugly -- particularly at default or 
> greater than default.

   That is not true. Many people like Verdana. They prefer it over
   other fonts because it is more legible.

-- 
   Chris F.A. Johnson, 
   Author:
   Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread David Laakso 
John wrote:
>
>
> I can't have the faces I really want, so I use what I hope others  
> will actually have...
>
> Is there another way?
>
> thanks!
>
> J
>
>   




We are off- topic with this [nothing to do with CSS] and I accept full 
responsibility and blame for that.

Best,
~d



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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread John 

On May 19, 2010, at 3:21 PM, David Laakso wrote:

> Verdana was ditched because it is pug ugly -- particularly at  
> default or
> greater than default.


Thanks for shining a light on that..I had no idea those other  
measurement systems would cause such issue with IE users...seems IE  
is a usual suspect when it comes to things not working right.


but as for Verdana being ditched because it is pug ugly - no argument  
there on it's aesthetic properties, but what it has (had?) going for  
it was its readability and presence on both mac and win platforms.'

has this been thrown out the window?

When I've seen Arial, especially on a windows pee cee, it wouldn't  
win no prizes for beauty either, but then windows often renders fonts  
with horrifying results.

So...what's a rabbit to do?

I can't have the faces I really want, so I use what I hope others  
will actually have...

Is there another way?

thanks!

J
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) 


David Laakso wrote:

> Verdana was ditched because it is pug ugly -- particularly at default or
> greater than default.

How do you feel about Tahoma ?  I prefer it to Verdana, and normally work
at greater-than-default sizes.

Philip Taylor
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread David Laakso 
John wrote:
>
> On May 19, 2010, at 12:00 PM, David Laakso wrote:
>
>> body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
>>margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color: black;}
>>
>> img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%; height:
>> auto;}
>>
>> Best,
>> ~d
>
>
>
> thanks to all for the great suggestions. For now, I whacked the width 
> of that 1200 px wide image, but want to visit the code suggestions 
> made, including this bit above from the body declaration:
>
> /*11px Verdana,*/100%   -   looks like you commented out 11px Verdana, 
> then added 100%..this is applied to all fonts, and indicates the size 
> OF the fonts?
>
>
> John
>
>
>





It is /a suggestion/ to set the content text at user default rather than 
at your personal preference. If it were set in pixels at default it 
would be 16px (but IE users have to jump through hoops -- put the 
browser in accessibility mode -- to scale fonts set in pixels using the 
5 font-size settings). And if it were set in em at default it would be 
1em, in which case you would need to set font-size 100% on html, in 
order to defeat an IE font-scaling bug.

Verdana was ditched because it is pug ugly -- particularly at default or 
greater than default.

Most people ignore what I write about typography: do whatever does it 
for you and yours.

Best,
~d




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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread John 

On May 19, 2010, at 12:00 PM, David Laakso wrote:

> body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
>margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color: black;}
>
> img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%;  
> height:
> auto;}
>
> Best,
> ~d



thanks to all for the great suggestions. For now, I whacked the width  
of that 1200 px wide image, but want to visit the code suggestions  
made, including this bit above from the body declaration:

/*11px Verdana,*/100%   -   looks like you commented out 11px  
Verdana, then added 100%..this is applied to all fonts, and indicates  
the size OF the fonts?


John


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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread Thierry Koblentz 
> >> body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> >>margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color:
> black;}
> >>
> >> img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%;
> >> height:
> >> auto;}
> >>
> >
> > Max-width is a nice touch but it does not work in IE6 :-(
> 
> 
> Who cares?

Actually, the problem is even bigger *because* of IE6.
Modern browsers would let large image stick out of containers, but IE6 will
expand the container.
With the OP's construct it may be no big deal, but in most cases it would
trigger a "drop float".

Not that we should care, but - imho - we should let people know.


--
Regards,
Thierry
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread David Laakso 
Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>>> thank you for any insight!
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.coffeeonmars.com/dez.html
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> http://www.coffeeonmars.com/two.html
>>>
>>>   
>>
>>
>>
>> body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
>>margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color: black;}
>>
>> img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%;
>> height:
>> auto;}
>> 
>
> Max-width is a nice touch but it does not work in IE6 :-(
>
> --
> Regards,
> Thierry
> www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz
>
>
>   


Who cares?

~d




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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread Thierry Koblentz 
> > thank you for any insight!
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.coffeeonmars.com/dez.html
> >
> > and
> >
> > http://www.coffeeonmars.com/two.html
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
>margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color: black;}
> 
> img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%;
> height:
> auto;}

Max-width is a nice touch but it does not work in IE6 :-(

--
Regards,
Thierry
www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz

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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) 
To save your visitors from having to horizontal-scroll
(which most of them will hate), why not stack the last
two images vertically instead of horizontally ?

Philip Taylor

John wrote:

> http://www.coffeeonmars.com/dez.html
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread Thierry Koblentz 
> > That's because your last image on that page is 1279 pixel wide
> 
> 
> yeah...it's a big boy, isn't it? ;-)
> 
> 
> so, is the remedy to ammend the code on that page, or is a 1279 pixel
> wide image just plain ridiculous?

I don't know if it's ridiculous or not, but it is what triggers the
scrollbar.
So either you make that image smaller or you use overflow:hidden on the
parent to cut it off (but then why using an image that big to begin with?).

As a side note, you should use "ALT" attribute with every single image you
insert in your documents. 


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Thierry
www.tjkdesign.com | www.ez-css.org | @thierrykoblentz


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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread David Laakso 
John wrote:
> thank you for any insight!
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> http://www.coffeeonmars.com/dez.html
>
> and
>
> http://www.coffeeonmars.com/two.html
>   





body {font: /*11px Verdana,*/100% Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
   margin: 0; padding: 0;background: rgb(200,200,200); color: black;}

img {border: 1px solid fuchsia; display : block; max-width: 96%; height: 
auto;}

Best,
~d




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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread Climis, Tim 
> so, is the remedy to ammend the code on that page, or is a 1279 pixel wide
> image just plain ridiculous?
> 


In marsB.css, line 27
Delete the width: 600px; (or change to min-width: 600px).

That will let the paragraph expand to fit your image, which will in turn make 
the page expand to fit the paragraph, and your menu go all the way to the edge.
As it stands, your image is hanging off the edge of the page, and you can only 
see the whole thing because the browser is being nice to you.

---Tim
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread John 

On May 19, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote:

> That's because your last image on that page is 1279 pixel wide




yeah...it's a big boy, isn't it? ;-)


so, is the remedy to ammend the code on that page, or is a 1279 pixel  
wide image just plain ridiculous?

feel free to be frank in your response; I can take it.

thanks!

John
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Re: [css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread Thierry Koblentz 
> on both the pages below, the top menu bar (thick gray with thinner
> gray bar underneath it) are meant to extend to the right to infinity,
> but on the first of the two links below, Safari gets a horizontal
> scroll bar and scrolling to the right shows the menu bar visibly
> ending. Not so on page number 2, below.
> 
> I have looked at the code and I can not see the reason for this.
> Now, I am not sure that I properly coded the  "go to the right
> forever" property of this menu bar, but why does one page behave
> differently than the other one? Both use the same css style sheet,
> and that code up at the top is different, save only the image at the
> top, and they are identical pixel dimensions.
> 
> thank you for any insight!

That's because your last image on that page is 1279 pixel wide

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Thierry
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[css-d] Problem with menu bar

2010-05-19 Thread John 
on both the pages below, the top menu bar (thick gray with thinner  
gray bar underneath it) are meant to extend to the right to infinity,  
but on the first of the two links below, Safari gets a horizontal  
scroll bar and scrolling to the right shows the menu bar visibly  
ending. Not so on page number 2, below.

I have looked at the code and I can not see the reason for this.   
Now, I am not sure that I properly coded the  "go to the right  
forever" property of this menu bar, but why does one page behave  
differently than the other one? Both use the same css style sheet,  
and that code up at the top is different, save only the image at the  
top, and they are identical pixel dimensions.

thank you for any insight!

John




http://www.coffeeonmars.com/dez.html

and

http://www.coffeeonmars.com/two.html
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