Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Michael Geary wrote: From: Zoe M. Gillenwater Exactly. FOUC is a very specific bug. It means that *none* of the styles are loaded initially. I'm guessing they are, and it's just the background image that isn't loaded instantaneously. Again, Riva, do the styles on the fonts show up right away? Try making your text an outlandish color like bright red. Does that show right away? If so, it's not FOUC. It's a totally different bug. Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. You're right, a total FOUC is typical, but you could also have a partial FOUC. No you can't. If parts of the styles aren't loading, then it's a bug, but a different bug. It's not FOUC. FOUC means all the styles don't load for a second, in IE6 and lower, and it's caused by an @import in the head, and fixed with the addition of a link or script in the head. That's it. There are many, many other bugs that show flashing styles or partially rendered styles, in different combinations of browsers, but these are all separate things that deserve their own names and have their own fixes. If we start calling them all FOUC, we're just confusing the matter, because the FOUC fixes won't work for them. Thanks, Zoe -- Zoe M. Gillenwater Design Services Manager UNC Highway Safety Research Center http://www.hsrc.unc.edu __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Zoe, can you point me in the right direction to find out what the bug might be? Thanks, Riva Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote: No you can't. If parts of the styles aren't loading, then it's a bug, but a different bug. It's not FOUC. FOUC means all the styles don't load for a second, in IE6 and lower, and it's caused by an @import in the head, and fixed with the addition of a link or script in the head. That's it. There are many, many other bugs that show flashing styles or partially rendered styles, in different combinations of browsers, but these are all separate things that deserve their own names and have their own fixes. If we start calling them all FOUC, we're just confusing the matter, because the FOUC fixes won't work for them. Thanks, Zoe __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Portman wrote: Zoe, can you point me in the right direction to find out what the bug might be? Riva, I think everyone on this list has said several times that this is not a CSS bug, it is a slow loading page. At least, that's what my understanding of it is. All you can do is get a faster web host or reduce the size of your image. Zoe -- Zoe M. Gillenwater Design Services Manager UNC Highway Safety Research Center http://www.hsrc.unc.edu __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Portman wrote: Zoe, I reduced the size of my image, Cool. Ditch all the background images. It will look more contemporary. It will load even faster. And you will kill two birds in one fell swoop. [trimmed] Thanks, Riva [trimmed] Best, ~dL PS One Fell Swoop is the second album from Sioux Falls, South Dakota emo/rock band The Spill Canvas. It was released on August 9, 2005 through 111 Records :-) . -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Thanks for the reply. Do you see the pages flash briefly before they load? What browser are you using? FOUC = Flash Of Unstyled Content. It is when your css loads after the page loads and IE shows the page flashing with no style for a second. Riva Christopher Blake wrote: whats fouc? I can't see much the matter. Christopher Blake [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07816163420 __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Well, you have link and script elements inside your head section, which is the classic antidote to FOUC, so not sure why that's happening. -- http://www.web-buddha.co.uk __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
I know! My client is not complaining but I would like this fixed. Thanks for the reply, Riva Dave Goodchild wrote: Well, you have link and script elements inside your head section, which is the classic antidote to FOUC, so not sure why that's happening. -- http://www.web-buddha.co.uk http://www.web-buddha.co.uk __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Portman wrote: I have a FOUC problem on one of my websites and I have tried all the fixes I can think of but nothing is helping. Would someone mind taking a look and letting me know what the problem is? http://www.starqualitydesigns.com/contempo I can't see a FOUC on IE7 or IE6 on Windows XP. Can you be more explicit about what you are seeing and in what browsers and platforms? Zoe -- Zoe M. Gillenwater Design Services Manager UNC Highway Safety Research Center http://www.hsrc.unc.edu __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Portman wrote: I have a FOUC problem on one of my websites and I have tried all the fixes I can think of but nothing is helping. Would someone mind taking a look and letting me know what the problem is? http://www.starqualitydesigns.com/contempo I can't see a FOUC on IE7 or IE6 on Windows XP. Can you be more explicit about what you are seeing and in what browsers and platforms? Zoe I don't see FOUC either. I think it's just that the 7kb background tile image is loading slowly compared to the other content. -Rod __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Thanks Rod. Zoe, I am using IE6 on Windows XP. The funny thing is, I only see it online (as opposed to on my computer). Riva __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Portman wrote: Thanks Rod. Zoe, I am using IE6 on Windows XP. The funny thing is, I only see it online (as opposed to on my computer). Riva, But as Rod said, is it just that the background image takes a second to load, or are the fonts and all other styles not loading right away either? Zoe -- Zoe M. Gillenwater Design Services Manager UNC Highway Safety Research Center http://www.hsrc.unc.edu __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
I don't know. I tried putting a background image in the html page so it wouldn't look so obvious but it is hard to tell what flashes. Riva Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote: Riva, But as Rod said, is it just that the background image takes a second to load, or are the fonts and all other styles not loading right away either? Zoe __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Riva! Forgive me, but after your fifth message we still don't know what it is. I looked at your page in IE7 and FF2, and I do see a problem with the page loading in both browsers. The background image used in the sidebars flickers across the entire center area for a moment. I don't know if that's what you're talking about - I probably wouldn't call it a FOUC, it's more like a Flickering Unwanted Background After Reload. But now it sounds like that background is just a test, and there was some other problem you were seeing before you added it? Or is that the problem? Please help us out and tell us what we're looking for. :-) -Mike From: Portman I don't know. I tried putting a background image in the html page so it wouldn't look so obvious but it is hard to tell what flashes. From: Zoe M. Gillenwater But as Rod said, is it just that the background image takes a second to load, or are the fonts and all other styles not loading right away either? ... http://www.starqualitydesigns.com/contempo __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Michael Geary wrote: Riva! Forgive me, but after your fifth message we still don't know what it is. I looked at your page in IE7 and FF2, and I do see a problem with the page loading in both browsers. The background image used in the sidebars flickers across the entire center area for a moment. I don't know if that's what you're talking about - I probably wouldn't call it a FOUC, it's more like a Flickering Unwanted Background After Reload. Exactly. FOUC is a very specific bug. It means that *none* of the styles are loaded initially. I'm guessing they are, and it's just the background image that isn't loaded instantaneously. Again, Riva, do the styles on the fonts show up right away? Try making your text an outlandish color like bright red. Does that show right away? If so, it's not FOUC. It's a totally different bug. Please help us out and tell us what we're looking for. :-) Yes, exactly. :-) Zoe -- Zoe M. Gillenwater Design Services Manager UNC Highway Safety Research Center http://www.hsrc.unc.edu __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Thanks for the reply Mike. Yes, it was the background I was talking about. I did replace the 7KB background image with a 2.3KB background image, so maybe that helps. What I did was to create a wide image across the whole page and set it as the background in the body tag so that it would appear as if the whole page had loaded without the flashing, but it doesn't seem to be helping. Riva Michael Geary wrote: Riva! Forgive me, but after your fifth message we still don't know what it is. I looked at your page in IE7 and FF2, and I do see a problem with the page loading in both browsers. The background image used in the sidebars flickers across the entire center area for a moment. I don't know if that's what you're talking about - I probably wouldn't call it a FOUC, it's more like a Flickering Unwanted Background After Reload. But now it sounds like that background is just a test, and there was some other problem you were seeing before you added it? Or is that the problem? Please help us out and tell us what we're looking for. :-) -Mike __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Okay. I'll give it a try. As I said in the previous e-mail, the background is what flashes (well, that is what I don't like) and the text, etc. appears a second later. What would the other bug be? Riva Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote: Exactly. FOUC is a very specific bug. It means that *none* of the styles are loaded initially. I'm guessing they are, and it's just the background image that isn't loaded instantaneously. Again, Riva, do the styles on the fonts show up right away? Try making your text an outlandish color like bright red. Does that show right away? If so, it's not FOUC. It's a totally different bug. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Riva! Forgive me, but after your fifth message we still don't know what it is. And no offense intended! There was a virtual smileyface at the end of that sentence... :-) -Mike __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
I know. :-) Michael Geary wrote: And no offense intended! There was a virtual smileyface at the end of that sentence... :-) -Mike __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Try adding this in your meat tags in the head of your document: meta http-equiv=Page-Enter content=blendTrans(Duration=0.1) See if that helps. ~Shelly __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Thanks Shelly. I do have that in the page already. Riva Shelly wrote: Try adding this in your meat tags in the head of your document: meta http-equiv=Page-Enter content=blendTrans(Duration=0.1) See if that helps. ~Shelly __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
On 1/11/07, Portman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have a FOUC problem on one of my websites and I have tried all the fixes I can think of but nothing is helping. Would someone mind taking a look and letting me know what the problem is? http://www.starqualitydesigns.com/contempo Basically, pay more for a faster server. I spent 11 seconds waiting while nothing happened, then saw a split-second flash of white (my default bg is grey, otherwise I wouldn't have seen it). before the page rendered fully over another couple of seconds. Take note that I have made a deliberate choice to disable Opera's default FOUC-killing delay, because I prefer to get text ASAP. -- Richard Grevers, New Plymouth, New Zealand Hat 1: Development Engineer, Webfarm Ltd. Hat 2: Dramatic Design www.dramatic.co.nz __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
Are you on dial up? That is not good. Riva Richard Grevers wrote: Basically, pay more for a faster server. I spent 11 seconds waiting while nothing happened, then saw a split-second flash of white (my default bg is grey, otherwise I wouldn't have seen it). before the page rendered fully over another couple of seconds. Take note that I have made a deliberate choice to disable Opera's default FOUC-killing delay, because I prefer to get text ASAP. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
It is only the background that doesn't load initially. What other bug could it be? Riva Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote: Exactly. FOUC is a very specific bug. It means that *none* of the styles are loaded initially. I'm guessing they are, and it's just the background image that isn't loaded instantaneously. Again, Riva, do the styles on the fonts show up right away? Try making your text an outlandish color like bright red. Does that show right away? If so, it's not FOUC. It's a totally different bug. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem
I looked at your page in IE7 and FF2, and I do see a problem with the page loading in both browsers. The background image used in the sidebars flickers across the entire center area for a moment. I don't know if that's what you're talking about - I probably wouldn't call it a FOUC, it's more like a Flickering Unwanted Background After Reload. Yes, it was the background I was talking about. I did replace the 7KB background image with a 2.3KB background image, so maybe that helps. What I did was to create a wide image across the whole page and set it as the background in the body tag so that it would appear as if the whole page had loaded without the flashing, but it doesn't seem to be helping. OK, there are probably several ways to fix the FUBAR. One would be to remove the auto margin and background image on BODY, and use any technique you like to make those background sidebars separate elements. You could even use a table for all anyone cares. Then apply the repeating background image to those sidebar elements instead of the entire body. -Mike __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem?
~davidLaakso wrote: When scrolling down, and then re-loading, the page jumps to the top and simultaneously flashes the *styled* content. AFAIK, this is correct behavior. FOUC is usually associated with the CSS @import rule, which you do not seem to be using. David, obviously I used the wrong term - it should be FOSC (styled content). I remarked the flashing and concluded the wrong, the more so as FF does not behave in that way. Anyway, thank you very much for clarification. Have I nice christmas. Martin __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem?
Hi Francky,
francky wrote:
To diminish the effect, you can place the logo and the other sidebar
images in the background: then they don't show in the flash updown. :-)
I tested this with the logo (right side images not yet done).
that's a nice idea. Thank you for the example. I will certainly try that
on the right sidebar.
Then I noticed that in IE the first arrow in the list after the list
heading doesn't show. That can be repaired by adding {position:
relative} to the dl.
And thank you for the sharp view. Another way to repair that is to
insert height: 1% into an ie-stylesheet. But your method is the simple
and better way.
Have nice christmas days!
Martin
__
css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7
List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] FOUC problem?
Martin Krumme wrote: I have a problem with a page in IE. I presume it is a fouc-issue. I hoped to resolve that problem by simply inserting an empty stylesheet, but the problem remains. If you scroll down and refresh the page, you will see that the content of the sidebar is displayed for a second or so. How could I prevent that? The url is http://www.nees.uni-bonn.de/2007/test.html Martin In both ie/6 an ie/7, I see no flash of *unstyled* content. I tried this several times-- clearing the cache each time. When scrolling down, and then re-loading, the page jumps to the top and simultaneously flashes the *styled* content. AFAIK, this is correct behavior. FOUC is usually associated with the CSS @import rule, which you do not seem to be using. But, I could be wrong-- maybe someone else can see unstyled content on reload? Best, ~dL -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d IE7 information -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7 List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
