Re: [CTRL] 'Waco' Producer: WACO Lesson unlearned (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- Paul Argent wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > To anyone who has seen "Terms of Engagement" i strongly recommend it as one > of the best documentary's i've ever seen. > > For what it's worth a few comments on Waco: > > Waco was not about religion, it was about non conformity. Branch Davidians > were non conformist in terms of their religion. Nevertheless, the issue > seems to be that modern western society is unable to deal with individuals > who are different or espouse unconventional beliefs, whether religious, > political or social. > > Any comments welcome. > It has also been suggested that a couple of the people there had expert abilities with computers and had tapped into information about the connections between government agencies and street gangs in LA. You will remember the ATF agents going into the window upstairs? That was where the computers were kept. Howard Davis DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] 'Waco' Producer: WACO Lesson unlearned (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- >Waco was not about religion, it was about non conformity. Let's not forget the race angle. This was a multi-racial commune. I can't for the life of me grasp how racists of the Aryan/Identity type rationalize their much touted outrage over this incident. Were they ever to take power they'de do exactly the same thing to people like that. I also am fairly disgusted, though not really supprised, that the right cares not a fig for what happened to MOVE at Philadelphia and the left pretends that what happened at Waco was the fault of the so-called "cultists." The SAME thing happened to both groups. I am reminded of the opening line of Ceasar's account of how he managed to conquer Gaul. DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] 'Waco' Producer: WACO Lesson unlearned (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 04/20/1999 8:10:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Waco was not about religion, it was about non conformity. Branch Davidians were non conformist in terms of their religion. Nevertheless, the issue seems to be that modern western society is unable to deal with individuals who are different or espouse unconventional beliefs, whether religious, political or social. >> Absolutely right, and especially when you are considering how government beauracrats think. You could have an idea that would cure cancer, but it it didn't fit the form required, hang it up. Anyone who doesn't fit the current pattern is in deep trouble. It's kind of like living in a small town before WWII. Prudy DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] 'Waco' Producer: WACO Lesson unlearned (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- To anyone who has seen "Terms of Engagement" i strongly recommend it as one of the best documentary's i've ever seen. For what it's worth a few comments on Waco: Waco was not about religion, it was about non conformity. Branch Davidians were non conformist in terms of their religion. Nevertheless, the issue seems to be that modern western society is unable to deal with individuals who are different or espouse unconventional beliefs, whether religious, political or social. Any comments welcome. Paul At 06:37 20/04/99 -0400, you wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > >-Original Message- >From: Ian Goddard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 5:18 AM >Subject: 'Waco' Producer: Lesson unlearned (fwd) > > >= > WorldNetDaily.com (APRIL 20, 1999) >= > > 'Waco' producer: Lesson > unlearned > Public remains ambivalent after > six years > > By Jon E. Dougherty > (c) 1999 WorldNetDaily.com > > When producer Dan Gifford was > making his documentary film, "Waco: > The Rules of Engagement," two > things never entered his mind. First, > he didn't know the film -- hailed as > one of the most complete > documentaries of the April 19, 1993, > incident -- would ever be nominated > for an Academy Award. Second, he > never thought the film would be met > with such "bipartisan" ambivalence. > > Even now, six years after the > incident, Gifford says the nation is > no closer to understanding the causes > and effects of what happened in > Waco, and he believes that because of > that lack of understanding it is likely > such incidents will repeat themselves > in the future. > > "Whether you're considered a left > winger or a right winger, both sides > share many of the same feelings > about what happened there," Gifford > said during an interview. "Both sides > see the film as a major piece of > propaganda, period." > > "People really haven't learned much > of anything from it," he added. > > The Waco tragedy was sparked by an > FBI-led assault on a religious group > known as the Branch Davidians after > a 51-day siege. David Koresh, who > died in the ensuing firestorm that > engulfed the entire community, > headed the group, numbering 83 > men, women and children. After the > assault, many people asserted that > the government intentionally > planned, then botched, the raid on > the Davidians, then attacked and > killed them to cover up their > initial mistake. > > Gifford was sufficiently curious by > the accusations, so he set out to > discover exactly what happened for > himself. "Waco: The Rules of > Engagement" was the result of his > efforts, in which he concluded after > making the film that the government > attack theory was indeed correct. > > "The government set up to murder > these people, no question about it," > Gifford said. He compared it to > ancient times, "when the Romans > would follow believers of Jesus into > the desert and kill them after they > gathered to hear the prophecy." > > "Quite simply today, as it was then, > most Americans seem frightened of > people who espouse deep religious > beliefs and convictions," he said. "In > short, if you believe wholeheartedly > in God, you're a crazy who 'ought to > be killed,' according to many people > who have spoken to me about the > film." > > Gifford says the media and the > government are largely responsible > for that attitude, purposefully > creating a daunting stereotype of > Christians and practitioners of > Judaism. > > "I'm not a church-goer myself," he > said, "but I see this truth > nonetheless." > > The film, which was edited for > viewing on HBO, depicts > never-before-seen videotaped > accounts of what Gifford said were > U.S. and British military special > forces personnel "invited by the > federal government to 'o
[CTRL] 'Waco' Producer: WACO Lesson unlearned (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- -Original Message- From: Ian Goddard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 5:18 AM Subject: 'Waco' Producer: Lesson unlearned (fwd) = WorldNetDaily.com (APRIL 20, 1999) = 'Waco' producer: Lesson unlearned Public remains ambivalent after six years By Jon E. Dougherty (c) 1999 WorldNetDaily.com When producer Dan Gifford was making his documentary film, "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," two things never entered his mind. First, he didn't know the film -- hailed as one of the most complete documentaries of the April 19, 1993, incident -- would ever be nominated for an Academy Award. Second, he never thought the film would be met with such "bipartisan" ambivalence. Even now, six years after the incident, Gifford says the nation is no closer to understanding the causes and effects of what happened in Waco, and he believes that because of that lack of understanding it is likely such incidents will repeat themselves in the future. "Whether you're considered a left winger or a right winger, both sides share many of the same feelings about what happened there," Gifford said during an interview. "Both sides see the film as a major piece of propaganda, period." "People really haven't learned much of anything from it," he added. The Waco tragedy was sparked by an FBI-led assault on a religious group known as the Branch Davidians after a 51-day siege. David Koresh, who died in the ensuing firestorm that engulfed the entire community, headed the group, numbering 83 men, women and children. After the assault, many people asserted that the government intentionally planned, then botched, the raid on the Davidians, then attacked and killed them to cover up their initial mistake. Gifford was sufficiently curious by the accusations, so he set out to discover exactly what happened for himself. "Waco: The Rules of Engagement" was the result of his efforts, in which he concluded after making the film that the government attack theory was indeed correct. "The government set up to murder these people, no question about it," Gifford said. He compared it to ancient times, "when the Romans would follow believers of Jesus into the desert and kill them after they gathered to hear the prophecy." "Quite simply today, as it was then, most Americans seem frightened of people who espouse deep religious beliefs and convictions," he said. "In short, if you believe wholeheartedly in God, you're a crazy who 'ought to be killed,' according to many people who have spoken to me about the film." Gifford says the media and the government are largely responsible for that attitude, purposefully creating a daunting stereotype of Christians and practitioners of Judaism. "I'm not a church-goer myself," he said, "but I see this truth nonetheless." The film, which was edited for viewing on HBO, depicts never-before-seen videotaped accounts of what Gifford said were U.S. and British military special forces personnel "invited by the federal government to 'observe'" the handling of the situation. It also contains videotape shot by Davidians inside the compound during the standoff, and features audio recordings of conversations between leader Koresh and FBI hostage negotiators. Gifford said, "I'm very pleased that HBO decided to air the film," and added that he wasn't surprised by the popular cable channel's decision to do so. In one startling scene from the original "Waco" film, government or military personnel are shown on infrar
