Re: [CTRL] CIA Screws Up Again (And Again, And Again--)
-Caveat Lector- A map of Belgrade from 1997 shows that the spot where the new Chinese embassy is(was)located was an empty lot. They're lieing and if you haven't figured that out, you deserve what you have. Check it out!!! http://www.stratfor.com/crisis/kosovo/specialreports/special67.htm?section=3 DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] CIA Screws Up Again (And Again, And Again--)
-Caveat Lector- On 11 May 99, , Das wrote: > The CIA was working with a map dating to 1992 and made by the Defense > Mapping Agency, a Pentagon organization now called the National Imagery > and Mapping Agency. The map shows individual buildings in Belgrade but no > specific street numbers. And despite two updates to the map done in 1997 > and 1998, the map still showed the Chinese Embassy in its former location > in the old section of Belgrade. Ho ho hoand here we were worrying about spy sattelites that could read our license plates and peer into our backyards. Silly us. They can't even read a map or find the right map, for that matter? sno0wl DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] CIA Screws Up Again (And Again, And Again--)
-Caveat Lector- >From the following one would expect that many employees of the CIA made numerous errors in order to make the mistake in targeting the Chinese embassy. If this is really the case, then we should expect a large number of them to be fired. Supposedly, the CIA hires people of high intelligence and should have replacements available for those fired. Of course, if no one is fired, it can be assumed that either the CIA will continue to give inaccurate information or that, in fact, their information is accurate and they purposely targeted the Chinese Embassy. Howard Davis Das GOAT wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > "Bewildered CIA officials still could find no document in their files > giving the correct location of the Chinese Embassy, even though it was common > knowledge in Belgrade and among the diplomatic community. > "The incident has raised questions about the CIA's role in target > planning. "Knowledgeable U.S. officials speaking on condition of > anonymity said the agency ONLY OCCASIONALLY picks targets. One of those > instances was last summer, when the CIA recommended an attack on a target in > Sudan ..." > > CIA Explains What Went Wrong > > By JOHN DIAMOND > .c The Associated Press > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- The CIA had the right address when it proposed that NATO > bomb a Yugoslav munitions bureau. But the agency couldn't correctly locate > that address on a map of Belgrade, and the point it selected turned out to be > the Chinese Embassy. > > Two grim-faced U.S. intelligence officials delivered that extraordinary > message to lawmakers in a closed-door session and then to reporters Monday as > the diplomatic storm between Beijing and Washington swirled all around. > > ``It was the right address applied to the wrong building,'' one of the > officials said. The other said, ``None of the fail-safes worked.'' > > They met reporters on condition their names not be used. > > Defense Secretary William Cohen cited two key errors made by the CIA and > missed by the Pentagon and NATO strike planners. > > First, the spy agency failed to correctly pinpoint the target, the Yugoslav > Federal Directorate for Supply and Procurement, on its maps. The directorate > was a few hundred yards down the street from the site actually bombed. > > ``Second, the building that they did target turned out to be the Chinese > Embassy, but their maps incorrectly located the embassy in a different part > of Belgrade,'' Cohen said. > > The CIA was working with a map dating to 1992 and made by the Defense Mapping > Agency, a Pentagon organization now called the National Imagery and Mapping > Agency. The map shows individual buildings in Belgrade but no specific street > numbers. And despite two updates to the map done in 1997 and 1998, the map > still showed the Chinese Embassy in its former location in the old section of > Belgrade. > > The Chinese moved their embassy in 1996. The U.S. diplomatic mission in > Belgrade was aware of the move, but a State Department official who spoke on > condition of anonymity said the mission officials did not consider it their > responsibility to notify U.S. and allied strike planners. > > As a result, the allied ``no strike'' list, a tally of churches, schools, > hospitals and embassies that NATO strives to avoid as it pounds away at > Yugoslavia, was outdated. > > This paper error turned into disaster when the CIA, in recommending a strike > on the procurement directorate, made a mistake when it tried to extrapolate > the location of the arms directorate. The agency used known street addresses > nearby, along with aerial imagery that showed a walled compound that fit > intelligence information about the directorate's function as an arms supplier > and exporter. > > A missing ingredient was an agent on the ground in Belgrade actually looking > at the prospective target because no agent was available. > > A single B-2 bomber loaded with satellite-guided bombs attacked the compound > Friday night. > > A senior intelligence official described confusion, then shock and dismay at > CIA headquarters and the Pentagon when they first learned that the Chinese > Embassy had been bombed. The initial guess was that a bomb or missile had > gone astray. > > When the news that the embassy had been struck broke Friday night, ``We > started looking, 'Where's (the Chinese Embassy) at?. Oh my gosh, it's the > target,'' the intelligence official said. > > After the strike, bewildered CIA officials still could find no document in > their files giving the correct location of the Chinese Embassy, even though > it was common knowledge in Belgrade and among the diplomatic community. > > The incident has raised questions about the CIA's role in target planning. > Knowledgeable U.S. officials speaking on condition of anonymity said the > agency only occasionally picks targets. One of the few instances that gained > attention occurred last summer when the CIA recommended an attack on a target >
Re: [CTRL] CIA Screws Up Again (And Again, And Again--)
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 05/11/1999 4:58:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << The incident has raised questions about the CIA's role in target planning >> One would think that the incident would raise questions about the CIA's role in general. The "C" stands for Cluseau doesn't it? Prudy DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] CIA Screws Up Again (And Again, And Again--)
-Caveat Lector- "Bewildered CIA officials still could find no document in their files giving the correct location of the Chinese Embassy, even though it was common knowledge in Belgrade and among the diplomatic community. "The incident has raised questions about the CIA's role in target planning. "Knowledgeable U.S. officials speaking on condition of anonymity said the agency ONLY OCCASIONALLY picks targets. One of those instances was last summer, when the CIA recommended an attack on a target in Sudan ..." CIA Explains What Went Wrong By JOHN DIAMOND .c The Associated Press WASHINGTON (AP) -- The CIA had the right address when it proposed that NATO bomb a Yugoslav munitions bureau. But the agency couldn't correctly locate that address on a map of Belgrade, and the point it selected turned out to be the Chinese Embassy. Two grim-faced U.S. intelligence officials delivered that extraordinary message to lawmakers in a closed-door session and then to reporters Monday as the diplomatic storm between Beijing and Washington swirled all around. ``It was the right address applied to the wrong building,'' one of the officials said. The other said, ``None of the fail-safes worked.'' They met reporters on condition their names not be used. Defense Secretary William Cohen cited two key errors made by the CIA and missed by the Pentagon and NATO strike planners. First, the spy agency failed to correctly pinpoint the target, the Yugoslav Federal Directorate for Supply and Procurement, on its maps. The directorate was a few hundred yards down the street from the site actually bombed. ``Second, the building that they did target turned out to be the Chinese Embassy, but their maps incorrectly located the embassy in a different part of Belgrade,'' Cohen said. The CIA was working with a map dating to 1992 and made by the Defense Mapping Agency, a Pentagon organization now called the National Imagery and Mapping Agency. The map shows individual buildings in Belgrade but no specific street numbers. And despite two updates to the map done in 1997 and 1998, the map still showed the Chinese Embassy in its former location in the old section of Belgrade. The Chinese moved their embassy in 1996. The U.S. diplomatic mission in Belgrade was aware of the move, but a State Department official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the mission officials did not consider it their responsibility to notify U.S. and allied strike planners. As a result, the allied ``no strike'' list, a tally of churches, schools, hospitals and embassies that NATO strives to avoid as it pounds away at Yugoslavia, was outdated. This paper error turned into disaster when the CIA, in recommending a strike on the procurement directorate, made a mistake when it tried to extrapolate the location of the arms directorate. The agency used known street addresses nearby, along with aerial imagery that showed a walled compound that fit intelligence information about the directorate's function as an arms supplier and exporter. A missing ingredient was an agent on the ground in Belgrade actually looking at the prospective target because no agent was available. A single B-2 bomber loaded with satellite-guided bombs attacked the compound Friday night. A senior intelligence official described confusion, then shock and dismay at CIA headquarters and the Pentagon when they first learned that the Chinese Embassy had been bombed. The initial guess was that a bomb or missile had gone astray. When the news that the embassy had been struck broke Friday night, ``We started looking, 'Where's (the Chinese Embassy) at?. Oh my gosh, it's the target,'' the intelligence official said. After the strike, bewildered CIA officials still could find no document in their files giving the correct location of the Chinese Embassy, even though it was common knowledge in Belgrade and among the diplomatic community. The incident has raised questions about the CIA's role in target planning. Knowledgeable U.S. officials speaking on condition of anonymity said the agency only occasionally picks targets. One of the few instances that gained attention occurred last summer when the CIA recommended an attack on a target in Sudan that turned out to be a pharmaceutical plant and that may or may not have been involved in chemical weapons production. John Pike of the Federation of American Scientists said U.S. intelligence is lagging in developing the kind of building-by-building information strike planners need in today's combat environment. ``Our style of war increasingly involves targeting individual buildings,'' said Pike, whose Washington-based group follows intelligence issues. ``I don't believe our intelligence community is currently focused on that requirement.'' But intelligence experts said the business of identifying and locating a specific building in enemy territory is far more complex than it sounds. In places like Baghdad and Belgrade, the CIA and Pentagon
