Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

2001-07-07 Thread flw

-Caveat Lector-

> I'm glad we can agree about something FLW. American Jews are mostly
> Liberals, and as such they suffer from a severe reality deficit. They
> would rather not know. Believe me.
>
> J2
>

There is hope for you.
flw

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Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

2001-07-07 Thread Nurev Ind.

-Caveat Lector-

flw wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> > flw wrote:
>
> > > The evidence indicates FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and
> > > did nothing; now it is clear he knew about the impending Holocaust
> > > and did nothing. Now we know what FDR really stands for:
> > > "F**king Dirty Rat."
> > > flw
>
>  This might come as a news flash to YOU, but WE knew about it all
>  the time. There was NO ONE who would, or could prevent the mass
>  annihilation of the Jews in Christian Europe.
>  J2
>
> Rather facile, J2.
>
> Most aware folks know all about FDR.
>
> Too many Americans,especially US Jews, look upon FDR as some kind
> of Great Progressive. Ole Sanctimonious Eleanor especially causes them
> to swoon. Eleanor's letters were full of anti Semitic comments.
>
> FDR was a Fascist anti Semite.
>
> FDR, Churchill, Stalin, and Hitler...all peas in a pod.
> flw

I'm glad we can agree about something FLW. American Jews are mostly
Liberals, and as such they suffer from a severe reality deficit. They
would rather not know. Believe me.

J2

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Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

2001-07-07 Thread Nurev Ind.

-Caveat Lector-

BB wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> I don't have much of a problem, except perhaps for Nasty Newcomers,
> who show up from out of nowhere and bash everyone on the list instead
> of employing civil, mannerly, gentlemanly disagreement.
>
> My, how touchy your are - ease up a little - you'll live longer.
>
> I'm pretty sure that we're on the same page with some issues, it's
> just that the vituperative rhetoric gets in the way of understanding.
>
> You seem to have remarkable insight into my grasp of WWII history--
> I understand all your points about censorship,  I do not understand
> your point in the last paragraph regarding Roosevelt ---
>
> Did you somehow conclude that I thought him a "good guy?"
>
> BB
>
> 
>
> "Damian B. Cooper" wrote:
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > At 01:07 AM 7/6/01 -0700, BB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >  wrote:
> > >-Caveat Lector-
> > >
> > >Duh-uh!  Pick on a word, and divert  attention away from the main
> > >point which was that fdr and the fedguv had firsthand reports of massive
> > >deportation, concentration camps, and systematic murder of as many Jews
> > >as the germans could process.
> > >
> > >So the word "holocaust" wasn't used in '41  --  SO WHAT??
> > >Does that mean it never happened???  What a clever rebuttal.
> > >
> > >Do not lose sight of the fact that Jews were not the only target
> > >of the lunatic's ethnic cleansing.
> >
> > Jews served in the armed forces of the Third Reich all the way up
> > to and including the rank of Field Marshall.
> >
> > How do you explain that?
> >
> > You're problem is that you don't know that World War II occurred
> > under a regime of OFFICIAL UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
> > CENSORSHIP.
> >
> > The Roosevelt administration censored the
> > news, and the censored news became censored history.
> >
> > Can you tell me:  when did the U.S. Government officially announce that
> > it would stop censoring the news, AND when did it release all of
> > the information that it held back from the American public?
> >
> > The answer is:  there are still hundreds of thousands, perhaps
> > millions of World War II era documents that are still classified
> > or restricted from public examination in the archives of the U.S.,
> > Russia, and other European countries.
> >
> > Your grasp of  WW II history is nothing more than the Pavlovian
> > reaction to a propaganda cartoon painted for you by  Harry
> > Hopkins, Alger Hiss, Henry Morganthau, and the other Commies
> > who operated Roosevelt.

And your grasp of WWII is just plain stupid. Morganthau was a Wall
Street banker and insider. If you are suggesting that Roosevelt was
a Commie, then you are a fool.

Joshua2

> >
> > DBC

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Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

2001-07-06 Thread BB

-Caveat Lector-

I don't have much of a problem, except perhaps for Nasty Newcomers,
who show up from out of nowhere and bash everyone on the list instead
of employing civil, mannerly, gentlemanly disagreement.

My, how touchy your are - ease up a little - you'll live longer.

I'm pretty sure that we're on the same page with some issues, it's
just that the vituperative rhetoric gets in the way of understanding.

You seem to have remarkable insight into my grasp of WWII history--
I understand all your points about censorship,  I do not understand
your point in the last paragraph regarding Roosevelt ---

Did you somehow conclude that I thought him a "good guy?"

BB




"Damian B. Cooper" wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> At 01:07 AM 7/6/01 -0700, BB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  wrote:
> >-Caveat Lector-
> >
> >Duh-uh!  Pick on a word, and divert  attention away from the main
> >point which was that fdr and the fedguv had firsthand reports of massive
> >deportation, concentration camps, and systematic murder of as many Jews
> >as the germans could process.
> >
> >So the word "holocaust" wasn't used in '41  --  SO WHAT??
> >Does that mean it never happened???  What a clever rebuttal.
> >
> >Do not lose sight of the fact that Jews were not the only target
> >of the lunatic's ethnic cleansing.
>
> Jews served in the armed forces of the Third Reich all the way up
> to and including the rank of Field Marshall.
>
> How do you explain that?
>
> You're problem is that you don't know that World War II occurred
> under a regime of OFFICIAL UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
> CENSORSHIP.
>
> The Roosevelt administration censored the
> news, and the censored news became censored history.
>
> Can you tell me:  when did the U.S. Government officially announce that
> it would stop censoring the news, AND when did it release all of
> the information that it held back from the American public?
>
> The answer is:  there are still hundreds of thousands, perhaps
> millions of World War II era documents that are still classified
> or restricted from public examination in the archives of the U.S.,
> Russia, and other European countries.
>
> Your grasp of  WW II history is nothing more than the Pavlovian
> reaction to a propaganda cartoon painted for you by  Harry
> Hopkins, Alger Hiss, Henry Morganthau, and the other Commies
> who operated Roosevelt.
>
> DBC
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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> Om

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==
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

2001-07-06 Thread Damian B. Cooper

-Caveat Lector-

At 01:07 AM 7/6/01 -0700, BB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 wrote:
>-Caveat Lector-
>
>Duh-uh!  Pick on a word, and divert  attention away from the main
>point which was that fdr and the fedguv had firsthand reports of massive
>deportation, concentration camps, and systematic murder of as many Jews
>as the germans could process.
>
>So the word "holocaust" wasn't used in '41  --  SO WHAT??
>Does that mean it never happened???  What a clever rebuttal.
>
>Do not lose sight of the fact that Jews were not the only target
>of the lunatic's ethnic cleansing.

Jews served in the armed forces of the Third Reich all the way up
to and including the rank of Field Marshall.

How do you explain that?

You're problem is that you don't know that World War II occurred
under a regime of OFFICIAL UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT
CENSORSHIP.

The Roosevelt administration censored the
news, and the censored news became censored history.

Can you tell me:  when did the U.S. Government officially announce that
it would stop censoring the news, AND when did it release all of
the information that it held back from the American public?

The answer is:  there are still hundreds of thousands, perhaps
millions of World War II era documents that are still classified
or restricted from public examination in the archives of the U.S.,
Russia, and other European countries.

Your grasp of  WW II history is nothing more than the Pavlovian
reaction to a propaganda cartoon painted for you by  Harry
Hopkins, Alger Hiss, Henry Morganthau, and the other Commies
who operated Roosevelt.

DBC

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

2001-07-06 Thread Prudence L. Kuhn

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 07/05/2001 6:08:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< That is why Israel enjoys the unconditional support it gets from
 the world's Jews. That is not to say that it behaves properly. It
 doesn't. It behaves like a modern state. But if it comes down to brass
 tacks, we always want to have a place to go. It's a matter of survial.
 Not intellectual games for fat and sassy Americans and Europeans sitting
 safe at home. >>

No, that is why Israel has enjoyed the basically unconditional support it has
gotten from the United States and Europe.  Everybody compensating for their
own guilt.  Israel behaves like all conquesting nations behave.  I don't know
whether I would consider that modern.  It's not a matter of survival or a
place to go.  It's a matter of being able to take over and then taking it
all.  That is not unique to Israel.  The American colonists did exactly the
same thing in North America, and Spain and Portugal did a pretty fair job of
it in South America.  And of course Israel receives the support of American
Jews.  There's a little bit of guilt in that corner too.  Prudy

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Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

2001-07-06 Thread flw

-Caveat Lector-

> flw wrote:

> > The evidence indicates FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and
> > did nothing; now it is clear he knew about the impending Holocaust
> > and did nothing. Now we know what FDR really stands for:
> > "F**king Dirty Rat."
> > flw

 This might come as a news flash to YOU, but WE knew about it all
 the time. There was NO ONE who would, or could prevent the mass
 annihilation of the Jews in Christian Europe.
 J2

Rather facile, J2.

Most aware folks know all about FDR.

Too many Americans,especially US Jews, look upon FDR as some kind
of Great Progressive. Ole Sanctimonious Eleanor especially causes them
to swoon. Eleanor's letters were full of anti Semitic comments.

FDR was a Fascist anti Semite.

FDR, Churchill, Stalin, and Hitler...all peas in a pod.
flw

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Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

2001-07-05 Thread BB

-Caveat Lector-

Duh-uh!  Pick on a word, and divert  attention away from the main
point which was that fdr and the fedguv had firsthand reports of massive
deportation, concentration camps, and systematic murder of as many Jews
as the germans could process.

So the word "holocaust" wasn't used in '41  --  SO WHAT??
Does that mean it never happened???  What a clever rebuttal.

Do not lose sight of the fact that Jews were not the only target
of the lunatic's ethnic cleansing.  Germans other than Jews -
"undesirables" such as cripples, victims of MS and ALS, the
mentally ill and retarded all qualified, as well as "gypsies" and
catholic priests and nuns, in addition to others qualified as victims
of 'der fuhrer' and his maniacal, sadistic butchers.

Don't get round-shouldered from patting yourself on the back
just because you looked it up in a reader's guide in a library.
That's wonderful, but the "Duh-uh!" belongs to you for trying
to pick a fight over a word instead of considering the idea the
author conveyed in his original post.

WHAT was your purpose in doing that?

___


"Damian B. Cooper" wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> At 07:05 PM 7/5/01 -0400, "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  wrote:
>
> >>
> >> THE TIMES
> >> WEDNESDAY JULY 04 2001
> >>
> >> Allies 'were told of Holocaust in 1941'
> >>
> >> BY BEN MACINTYRE
> >>
>
> Duh-uh!  How could the Allies have been told of "the Holocaust" in 1941
> when the term wasn't in use until 1967.
>
> Go look it up in the "Readers Guide to Periodical Literature" in you library.
> I did.
>
> DBC
>

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==
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

2001-07-05 Thread Damian B. Cooper

-Caveat Lector-

At 07:05 PM 7/5/01 -0400, "Nurev Ind." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 wrote:

>>
>> THE TIMES
>> WEDNESDAY JULY 04 2001
>>
>> Allies 'were told of Holocaust in 1941'
>>
>> BY BEN MACINTYRE
>>

Duh-uh!  How could the Allies have been told of "the Holocaust" in 1941
when the term wasn't in use until 1967.

Go look it up in the "Readers Guide to Periodical Literature" in you library.
I did.

DBC

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==
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust j2

2001-07-05 Thread Nurev Ind.

-Caveat Lector-

flw wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> The evidence indicates FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and
> did nothing; now it is clear he knew about the impending Holocaust
> and did nothing. Now we know what FDR really stands for:
> "F**king Dirty Rat."
> flw

Starting to get a clue. Good.

This might come as a news flash to YOU, but WE knew about it all
the time. There was NO ONE who would, or could prevent the mass
annihilation of the Jews in Christian Europe.

That is why Israel enjoys the unconditional support it gets from
the world's Jews. That is not to say that it behaves properly. It
doesn't. It behaves like a modern state. But if it comes down to brass
tacks, we always want to have a place to go. It's a matter of survial.
Not intellectual games for fat and sassy Americans and Europeans sitting
safe at home.

J2
===
>
> THE TIMES
> WEDNESDAY JULY 04 2001
>
> Allies 'were told of Holocaust in 1941'
>
> BY BEN MACINTYRE
>
> BRITISH and American intelligence services knew of Nazi genocide plans months 
>earlier than previously thought,
> according to a newly declassified document in the United States, but did not warn 
>Jews of the impending
> Holocaust.
> A report written in November 1941, obtained by British agents and passed to the US 
>in March 1942, stated
> unequivocally that it had been decided to eradicate the Jews.
>
> Most historians had concluded that the West did not become aware of the Holocaust 
>until August 1942. The
> information came from Gonzalo Montt Rivas, the Chilean consul in Prague, in a report 
>to his superiors in
> Santiago.
>
> The consul described a German decree that Jews living abroad could no longer be 
>German subjects and that their
> property would be confiscated by the Nazis. Then, interpreting the decree, he wrote: 
>"The German triumph (in
> the war) will leave Europe freed of Semites. It has been decided to eradicate all 
>the Jews and send some to
> Poland and others to the town of Terezin, while looking for a more remote place."
>
> The consul may have been working for German intelligence, despite his country's 
>neutrality, according to
> Richard Breitman, chief historian for the government agency overseeing 
>declassification of wartime records at
> the National Archives and Records Administration.
>

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CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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