Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret

[Theodor Parada, MD]

-Caveat Lector-

>From what I understand, now this 'infinity chip' is not even
required! Your phone can be used as a microphone while its in its
cradle and never picked up. This capability has been legislated by
our congress and the phone companies have acted upon it and voila!

On 9 Aug 2001, at 4:37, MIKE SPITZER wrote:


> The thing I was referring to is what Tenebroust mentioned below, namely,
> the Infinity chip. It was invented at Oxford or Cambridge in the 80's.  It
> is almost too small to see, it is clear (Thin Layer Film VLIC), and when it
> is touched to most things, it sticks via a variable static charge.
>
> Once it is attached/touched to a phone, it uses the phone's electronics to
> transmit *audio* thru the phone lines. Soon after the installation, a
> simple call to that phone activates it. Even when the bugged phone is
> hung-up and/or used again, the first caller after its attachment can hear
> EVERYTHING (i.e., as long as they don't hang up after their initial
> activation call).
> This thing will keep gaining-up until it finds a human audio signal, even
> if it's several offices AWAY from the bugged phone!  In other words, it can
> hear/transmit what is being said on that phone, as well as what is going on
> in rooms FAR removed from the room with the chip.


=
Theodor S. Parada, MD
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Key ID 0x537C4815

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot
survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for
he is known and carries his banner openly, but the traitor moves amongst
those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the
alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor
appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he
wears their face and their garments, he appeals to the baseness that lies
deep in the heart's of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works
secretly and unknownest in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he
infects the body politic, so that, it can no longer resist. A murderer is
less to fear. The traitor is the plague."
Marcus Tullius Cicero 48 BC



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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret

[MIKE SPITZER]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Theodor Parada, MD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret


-Caveat Lector-

It's all available, check out this sight:

<http://www.codexdatasystems.com>


No, the stuff discussed on the above site is not even close to what I am
referring to.  The technologies discussed on the above URL are not even as
advanced as Clipper and Tempest type technologies (which, btw, are both
considered rather low-tech, themselves).

The thing I was referring to is what Tenebroust mentioned below, namely,
the Infinity chip. It was invented at Oxford or Cambridge in the 80's.  It
is almost too small to see, it is clear (Thin Layer Film VLIC), and when it
is touched to most things, it sticks via a variable static charge.

Once it is attached/touched to a phone, it uses the phone's electronics to
transmit *audio* thru the phone lines. Soon after the installation, a
simple call to that phone activates it. Even when the bugged phone is
hung-up and/or used again, the first caller after its attachment can hear
EVERYTHING (i.e., as long as they don't hang up after their initial
activation call).
This thing will keep gaining-up until it finds a human audio signal, even
if it's several offices AWAY from the bugged phone!  In other words, it can
hear/transmit what is being said on that phone, as well as what is going on
in rooms FAR removed from the room with the chip.

At night, for example, when things are quiet, all of the rooms near the
room with the bugged phone may be empty of ppl. In these cases, USABLE
audio can be received and transmitted from the nearest rooms that *DO* have
conversations (i.e., in the ~one KHz range), EVEN ON NON-ADJACENT FLOORS!
It just keeps gaining up, while filtering out expected interferences (e.g.,
RF noise, fan blowers, etc.) UNTIL IT FINDS A HUMAN CONVERSATION!

When the first caller calls the bugged phone (i.e., the first caller after
the initial attachment of the Infinity bug to a phone), even tho the phone
with the bug has been hung up, as long as the first caller doesn't hang up,
they have a continuing flow of the nearest audio to the bugged phone. I
imagine that when/if the first caller hangs up, the very next caller to
that phone will activate the Infinity chip again, so that if this new
caller did not hang up after the bugged phone is answered and hung up (the
caller could just say they had a wrong number), this second caller could
hold the line open and actively transmitting audio until they hung up at
their own end. EVEN THOUGH OTHER CALLS ARE COMING INTO AND BEING HANDLED
OVER THE BUGGED PHONE, THE FIRST CALLER NEVER BROKE THEIR CONNECTION TO THE
BUGGED PHONE, EVEN WHILE THE PHONE IS BEING USED FOR OTHER CALLS!

The more I have thought about this Infinity chip over the years (I heard
about it first in '87-88), the more it makes sense that this device is
considered to be (if it truly exists) BY FAR, THE GREATEST THREAT TO OUR
NATIONS SECURITY!  The threat that it presents to a major global power
(like our country) quite literally DWARFS even the threat to such a nation
from hostile multi-warheaded multi-megaton guided thermonuclear ballistic
missiles!



On 8 Aug 2001, at 19:27, tenebroust wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> I heard of something like this before, maybe the same thing, it was
called an infinity transmitter which would send information out even if the
phone was off or no line was being used.

===
=
=
Theodor S. Parada, MD
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Key ID 0x537C4815

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot
survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for
he is known and carries his banner openly, but the traitor moves amongst
those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the
alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor
appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he
wears their face and their garments, he appeals to the baseness that lies
deep in the heart's of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works
secretly and unknownest in the night to undermine the pillars of the city,
he
infects the body politic, so that, it can no longer resist. A murderer is
less to fear. The traitor is the plague."
Marcus Tullius Cicero 48 BC
===
=


http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright f

Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret

[Theodor Parada, MD]

-Caveat Lector-

It's all available, check out this sight:




On 8 Aug 2001, at 19:27, tenebroust wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> I heard of something like this before, maybe the same thing, it was called an 
>infinity transmitter which would send information out even if the phone was off or no 
>line was being used.


=
Theodor S. Parada, MD
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Key ID 0x537C4815

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot
survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for
he is known and carries his banner openly, but the traitor moves amongst
those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the
alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor
appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he
wears their face and their garments, he appeals to the baseness that lies
deep in the heart's of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works
secretly and unknownest in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he
infects the body politic, so that, it can no longer resist. A murderer is
less to fear. The traitor is the plague."
Marcus Tullius Cicero 48 BC



http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl

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Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret

[tenebroust]

-Caveat Lector-

That goes without saying, but it is not an excuse to be less than diligent in the 
rooting out of what we can.  Stating that it is so and then doing nothing and saying 
nothing is not the answer.  Sure it goes on that is why we must expose it and tlak 
about it in forums like this!!



On Wed, 08 August 2001, Jeanne S wrote:

>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> They are already using it.  There is no privacy on the web.  They watch
> anyone they see as a threat.
> Jeanne
> - Original Message -
> From: "tenebroust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret
>
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > This sounds like a very interesting case that is well worth keeping an eye
> on, since a keystroke interceptor would enable the Feds to bypass any type
> of firewall or encryption and if they can do it willy nilly then no one's
> data is secure.  Scary.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 07 August 2001, William Shannon wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >  FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> HREF="http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html";>http://www.wi
> red.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Feds: Spy Tool Is a Secret
> > >  FACE="Verdana" LANG="0">By  HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]%3Fsubject=Feds:%20Spy%20Tool%20Is%20a%20Secret
> ">Declan McCullagh  FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Verdana" LANG="0">
> > > 
> > >  LANG="0">2:00 a.m. Aug. 7, 2001 PDT
> > >  FACE="Verdana" LANG="0"> SRC="http://a1112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/03312000/static.wired.com/news/ima
> ges/spacer.gif" WIDTH="89" HEIGHT="21" BORDER="0"> COLOR="#00" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Verdana" LANG="0">
> > >  LANG="0">The U.S. government has invoked national security to argue that
> details of a
> > > new electronic surveillance technique must remain secret.
> > > Justice Department attorneys told a federal judge overseeing the
> prosecution
> > > of an alleged mobster that public disclosure of a classified
> keystroke logger
> > > would imperil ongoing investigations of "foreign intelligence
> agents" and
> > > endanger the lives of U.S. agents.
> > > 
> > > In court documents  HREF="http://www2.epic.org/crypto/scarfo/gov_supp_brief.pdf";>(PDF) filed
> Friday, the Justice Department claims that
> > > such stringent secrecy is necessary to prevent "hostile intelligence
> > > officers" from employing "counter-surveillance tactics to thwart law
> > > enforcement."
> > > 
> > > U.S. District Judge Nicholas Politan  HREF="http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45730,00.html";>heard
> arguments last Monday in the
> > > prosecution of Nicodemo S. Scarfo, the alleged mastermind of a loan
> shark
> > > operation in New Jersey. Politan asked both sides to submit
> additional briefs
> > > before he decided whether or not to order the feds to disclose
> details about
> > > their keystroke logging device, which captured Scarfo's PGP
> passphrase.
> > > 
> > > Politan has barred attorneys in the case from talking to reporters.
> > > 
> > > Donald Kerr, the director of the FBI's lab, said in an affidavit
> filed Friday
> > > that "there are only a limited number of effective techniques
> available to
> > > the FBI to cope with encrypted data, one of which is the 'key logger
> > > system.'" He said that if criminals find out how the logger works,
> they can
> > > readily circumvent it.
> > > 
> > > The feds believe so strongly in keeping this information secret that
> they've
> > > said they may invoke the  HREF="http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/laws/pl096456.htm";>Classified
> Information Procedures Act if necessary.
> > > The 1980 law says that the government may say that evidence requires
> > > "protection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national
> > > security."
> > > 
> > > If that happens, not only are observers barred from the courtroom,
> but the
> > > trial could move to a classified location. Federal regulations say
> that if a
> > > courtroom is not sufficiently secure, "t

Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret

[tenebroust]

-Caveat Lector-

I heard of something like this before, maybe the same thing, it was called an infinity 
transmitter which would send information out even if the phone was off or no line was 
being used.


On Tue, 07 August 2001, MIKE SPITZER wrote:

>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "tenebroust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret
>
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> "This sounds like a very interesting case that is well worth keeping an eye
> on, since a keystroke interceptor would enable the Feds to bypass any type
> of firewall or encryption and if they can do it willy nilly then no one's
> data is secure.  Scary."
>
>
> I'll say!
>
> Any one ever hear about that film chip
> (about the size and look of a single hit of
> window pane LCD, circa 1975) that would
> statically attach to the mouth mic of any
> phone, and would then allow normal
> functioning of the phone, while ALWAYS
> bugging the room/rooms adjacent to the room
> with the bug?
>
> This technology, allegedly developed at
> Cambridge, was said to be THE ABSOLUTE
> single most secret device to have ever been
> classified by an alphabet agency.  I mean,
> just think for a few MINUTES.  How'bout paying
> a janitor to put one on the conference room
> phone, the one that rings into the secret
> board room meeting once a year, the one on the
> gazilianth floor of IBM Towers, Rockefller Center,
> NYC, upon which the meeting deciding how
> much of their profits were to go into R&D for
> the next year, and in what new technologies!
>
> With just this, one with the funds (albeit few)
> could cause a major "fluctuation" on the exchange.
>
>
> 
>  Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT
>
>FROM THE DESK OF:
>
>*Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>   The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends
> 
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

"Welcome to the desert of the real."  Morpheus, in The Matrix

"My God it's full of stars!"  Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space
Odyssey
Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Availa

Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret

[Jeanne S]

-Caveat Lector-

They are already using it.  There is no privacy on the web.  They watch
anyone they see as a threat.
Jeanne
- Original Message -
From: "tenebroust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> This sounds like a very interesting case that is well worth keeping an eye
on, since a keystroke interceptor would enable the Feds to bypass any type
of firewall or encryption and if they can do it willy nilly then no one's
data is secure.  Scary.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 07 August 2001, William Shannon wrote:
>
> >
> > http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html";>http://www.wi
red.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Feds: Spy Tool Is a Secret
> > By mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]%3Fsubject=Feds:%20Spy%20Tool%20Is%20a%20Secret
">Declan McCullagh 
> > 
> > 2:00 a.m. Aug. 7, 2001 PDT
> > http://a1112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/03312000/static.wired.com/news/ima
ges/spacer.gif" WIDTH="89" HEIGHT="21" BORDER="0">
> > The U.S. government has invoked national security to argue that
details of a
> > new electronic surveillance technique must remain secret.
> > Justice Department attorneys told a federal judge overseeing the
prosecution
> > of an alleged mobster that public disclosure of a classified
keystroke logger
> > would imperil ongoing investigations of "foreign intelligence
agents" and
> > endanger the lives of U.S. agents.
> > 
> > In court documents http://www2.epic.org/crypto/scarfo/gov_supp_brief.pdf";>(PDF) filed
Friday, the Justice Department claims that
> > such stringent secrecy is necessary to prevent "hostile intelligence
> > officers" from employing "counter-surveillance tactics to thwart law
> > enforcement."
> > 
> > U.S. District Judge Nicholas Politan http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45730,00.html";>heard
arguments last Monday in the
> > prosecution of Nicodemo S. Scarfo, the alleged mastermind of a loan
shark
> > operation in New Jersey. Politan asked both sides to submit
additional briefs
> > before he decided whether or not to order the feds to disclose
details about
> > their keystroke logging device, which captured Scarfo's PGP
passphrase.
> > 
> > Politan has barred attorneys in the case from talking to reporters.
> > 
> > Donald Kerr, the director of the FBI's lab, said in an affidavit
filed Friday
> > that "there are only a limited number of effective techniques
available to
> > the FBI to cope with encrypted data, one of which is the 'key logger
> > system.'" He said that if criminals find out how the logger works,
they can
> > readily circumvent it.
> > 
> > The feds believe so strongly in keeping this information secret that
they've
> > said they may invoke the http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/laws/pl096456.htm";>Classified
Information Procedures Act if necessary.
> > The 1980 law says that the government may say that evidence requires
> > "protection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national
> > security."
> > 
> > If that happens, not only are observers barred from the courtroom,
but the
> > trial could move to a classified location. Federal regulations say
that if a
> > courtroom is not sufficiently secure, "the court shall designate the
> > facilities of another United States Government agency" as the
location for
> > the trial.
> > 
> > But the FBI's Kerr said that CIPA's extreme procedures aren't good
enough.
> > Says Kerr: "Even disclosure under the protection of the court ...
cannot
> > guarantee that the technique will not be compromised To assume
otherwise
> > may well lead to the compromise of criminal and national security
> > investigations, and, in some cases, threaten the lives of FBI or
other
> > government agency personnel."
> > 
> > Scarfo allegedly used PGP to encode his confidential and
incriminating
> > business data. With a judge's approval, FBI agents repeatedly
sneaked into
> > Scarfo's business to plant a keystroke sniffer -- it could be either
software
> > or hardware -- and monitor its output.
> > 
> > During last Monday's hearing, Judge Politan wondered aloud how the
law should
> > treat the keyboard tap.
> > 
> > Was it akin, Politan wondered, to a telephone wiretap, regulated by
the
> > federal law known as Title III? Perhaps it was a general search of
t

Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret

[MIKE SPITZER]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "tenebroust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret


-Caveat Lector-

"This sounds like a very interesting case that is well worth keeping an eye
on, since a keystroke interceptor would enable the Feds to bypass any type
of firewall or encryption and if they can do it willy nilly then no one's
data is secure.  Scary."


I'll say!

Any one ever hear about that film chip
(about the size and look of a single hit of
window pane LCD, circa 1975) that would
statically attach to the mouth mic of any
phone, and would then allow normal
functioning of the phone, while ALWAYS
bugging the room/rooms adjacent to the room
with the bug?

This technology, allegedly developed at
Cambridge, was said to be THE ABSOLUTE
single most secret device to have ever been
classified by an alphabet agency.  I mean,
just think for a few MINUTES.  How'bout paying
a janitor to put one on the conference room
phone, the one that rings into the secret
board room meeting once a year, the one on the
gazilianth floor of IBM Towers, Rockefller Center,
NYC, upon which the meeting deciding how
much of their profits were to go into R&D for
the next year, and in what new technologies!

With just this, one with the funds (albeit few)
could cause a major "fluctuation" on the exchange.



 Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT

   FROM THE DESK OF:

   *Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends


http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret

[tenebroust]

-Caveat Lector-

This sounds like a very interesting case that is well worth keeping an eye on, since a 
keystroke interceptor would enable the Feds to bypass any type of firewall or 
encryption and if they can do it willy nilly then no one's data is secure.  Scary.



On Tue, 07 August 2001, William Shannon wrote:

>
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">HREF="http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html";>http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html
> 
> 
> 
> Feds: Spy Tool Is a Secret
> LANG="0">By HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]%3Fsubject=Feds:%20Spy%20Tool%20Is%20a%20Secret";>Declan 
>McCullagh LANG="0">
> 
> LANG="0">2:00 a.m. Aug. 7, 2001 PDT
> LANG="0">SRC="http://a1112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/03312000/static.wired.com/news/images/spacer.gif";
> WIDTH="89" HEIGHT="21" BORDER="0">FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Verdana" LANG="0">
> LANG="0">The U.S. government has invoked national security to argue that details of a
> new electronic surveillance technique must remain secret.
> Justice Department attorneys told a federal judge overseeing the prosecution
> of an alleged mobster that public disclosure of a classified keystroke logger
> would imperil ongoing investigations of "foreign intelligence agents" and
> endanger the lives of U.S. agents.
> 
> In court documents HREF="http://www2.epic.org/crypto/scarfo/gov_supp_brief.pdf";>(PDF) filed Friday, 
>the Justice Department claims that
> such stringent secrecy is necessary to prevent "hostile intelligence
> officers" from employing "counter-surveillance tactics to thwart law
> enforcement."
> 
> U.S. District Judge Nicholas Politan HREF="http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45730,00.html";>heard arguments 
>last Monday in the
> prosecution of Nicodemo S. Scarfo, the alleged mastermind of a loan shark
> operation in New Jersey. Politan asked both sides to submit additional briefs
> before he decided whether or not to order the feds to disclose details about
> their keystroke logging device, which captured Scarfo's PGP passphrase.
> 
> Politan has barred attorneys in the case from talking to reporters.
> 
> Donald Kerr, the director of the FBI's lab, said in an affidavit filed Friday
> that "there are only a limited number of effective techniques available to
> the FBI to cope with encrypted data, one of which is the 'key logger
> system.'" He said that if criminals find out how the logger works, they can
> readily circumvent it.
> 
> The feds believe so strongly in keeping this information secret that they've
> said they may invoke the HREF="http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/laws/pl096456.htm";>Classified Information 
>Procedures Act if necessary.
> The 1980 law says that the government may say that evidence requires
> "protection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national
> security."
> 
> If that happens, not only are observers barred from the courtroom, but the
> trial could move to a classified location. Federal regulations say that if a
> courtroom is not sufficiently secure, "the court shall designate the
> facilities of another United States Government agency" as the location for
> the trial.
> 
> But the FBI's Kerr said that CIPA's extreme procedures aren't good enough.
> Says Kerr: "Even disclosure under the protection of the court ... cannot
> guarantee that the technique will not be compromised To assume otherwise
> may well lead to the compromise of criminal and national security
> investigations, and, in some cases, threaten the lives of FBI or other
> government agency personnel."
> 
> Scarfo allegedly used PGP to encode his confidential and incriminating
> business data. With a judge's approval, FBI agents repeatedly sneaked into
> Scarfo's business to plant a keystroke sniffer -- it could be either software
> or hardware -- and monitor its output.
> 
> During last Monday's hearing, Judge Politan wondered aloud how the law should
> treat the keyboard tap.
> 
> Was it akin, Politan wondered, to a telephone wiretap, regulated by the
> federal law known as Title III? Perhaps it was a general search of the sort
> loathed by the colonists at the time of the American Revolution and
> thereafter outlawed by the Fourth Amendment? Or was it, as the government
> argued, just like cops rummaging around someone's home or office with a
> search warrant in hand?
> 
> The difference is crucial: If Politan rules that the FBI's keystroke monitor
> is a wiretap, the evidence may have to be discarded and Scarfo would be more
> likely to walk free. That's because wiretaps must follow strict rules -- such
> as minimizing information that's recorded -- that the FBI's technique didn't.
> 
> "If no court has yet assessed the legality of this technique, it seems clear
> that Scarfo should be entitled to make that inquiry," says David Sobel,
> general counsel of the Electronic Privacy HREF="http://www.epic.org/";>Information Center.
> 
> "Whether or not this was the equivalent of a wiretap is a central question --
> how can t

Re: [CTRL] Feds: Spy Tool Is a Secret

[tenebroust]

-Caveat Lector-

Of course.  It seems they learned their lesson from Echelon and any new stuff is not 
going to be seen or heard from any time soon.


On Tue, 07 August 2001, MIKE SPITZER wrote:

>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> From: Wired Magazine
>
> Feds: Spy Tool Is a Secret
> (Politics 2:00 a.m. PDT)
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html?tw=wn20010807
>
>
> Revealing information about a classified surveillance technique would
> threaten national security and put government agents at risk, say U.S.
> government attorneys. By Declan McCullagh.
>
>
> 
>  Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT
>
>FROM THE DESK OF:
>
>*Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>   The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends
> 
>
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[CTRL] Feds: Spy Tool Is a Secret

[MIKE SPITZER]

-Caveat Lector-

From: Wired Magazine

Feds: Spy Tool Is a Secret
(Politics 2:00 a.m. PDT)

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html?tw=wn20010807


Revealing information about a classified surveillance technique would
threaten national security and put government agents at risk, say U.S.
government attorneys. By Declan McCullagh.



 Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT

   FROM THE DESK OF:

   *Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends


http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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[CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret

[William Shannon]

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html



Feds: Spy Tool Is a Secret
By Declan McCullagh 

2:00 a.m. Aug. 7, 2001 PDT

The U.S. government has invoked national security to argue that details of a
new electronic surveillance technique must remain secret.
Justice Department attorneys told a federal judge overseeing the prosecution
of an alleged mobster that public disclosure of a classified keystroke logger
would imperil ongoing investigations of "foreign intelligence agents" and
endanger the lives of U.S. agents.

In court documents (PDF) filed Friday, the Justice Department claims that
such stringent secrecy is necessary to prevent "hostile intelligence
officers" from employing "counter-surveillance tactics to thwart law
enforcement."

U.S. District Judge Nicholas Politan heard arguments last Monday in the
prosecution of Nicodemo S. Scarfo, the alleged mastermind of a loan shark
operation in New Jersey. Politan asked both sides to submit additional briefs
before he decided whether or not to order the feds to disclose details about
their keystroke logging device, which captured Scarfo's PGP passphrase.

Politan has barred attorneys in the case from talking to reporters.

Donald Kerr, the director of the FBI's lab, said in an affidavit filed Friday
that "there are only a limited number of effective techniques available to
the FBI to cope with encrypted data, one of which is the 'key logger
system.'" He said that if criminals find out how the logger works, they can
readily circumvent it.

The feds believe so strongly in keeping this information secret that they've
said they may invoke the Classified Information Procedures Act if necessary.
The 1980 law says that the government may say that evidence requires
"protection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national
security."

If that happens, not only are observers barred from the courtroom, but the
trial could move to a classified location. Federal regulations say that if a
courtroom is not sufficiently secure, "the court shall designate the
facilities of another United States Government agency" as the location for
the trial.

But the FBI's Kerr said that CIPA's extreme procedures aren't good enough.
Says Kerr: "Even disclosure under the protection of the court ... cannot
guarantee that the technique will not be compromised To assume otherwise
may well lead to the compromise of criminal and national security
investigations, and, in some cases, threaten the lives of FBI or other
government agency personnel."

Scarfo allegedly used PGP to encode his confidential and incriminating
business data. With a judge's approval, FBI agents repeatedly sneaked into
Scarfo's business to plant a keystroke sniffer -- it could be either software
or hardware -- and monitor its output.

During last Monday's hearing, Judge Politan wondered aloud how the law should
treat the keyboard tap.

Was it akin, Politan wondered, to a telephone wiretap, regulated by the
federal law known as Title III? Perhaps it was a general search of the sort
loathed by the colonists at the time of the American Revolution and
thereafter outlawed by the Fourth Amendment? Or was it, as the government
argued, just like cops rummaging around someone's home or office with a
search warrant in hand?

The difference is crucial: If Politan rules that the FBI's keystroke monitor
is a wiretap, the evidence may have to be discarded and Scarfo would be more
likely to walk free. That's because wiretaps must follow strict rules -- such
as minimizing information that's recorded -- that the FBI's technique didn't.

"If no court has yet assessed the legality of this technique, it seems clear
that Scarfo should be entitled to make that inquiry," says David Sobel,
general counsel of the Electronic Privacy Information Center.

"Whether or not this was the equivalent of a wiretap is a central question --
how can that be answered without knowing how this worked and what it was
capable of capturing?"

For its part, the defense argues (PDF) that without public disclosure, judges
will be giving their "approval to secret entries which do nothing less than
spy on the citizen so targeted."

Another thing that's suspicious, says the defense, is that the log from the
program ended as soon as it shows Scarfo's PGP passphrase: "The odds of
someone subject to a 60-day period of observation via keystroke recording
providing what was sought on the very last typed entries are alarmingly
high."