Re: [CTRL] Free Speech Is Whatever the Government Allows
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/26/99 1:43:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But when our interests happen to coincide with the interests of one of these industries, it would be stupid to dump a rare opportunity. If it suits the Pharmaceutical industry to keep down competition by making someone else adhere to rigorous scientific standards for their claims, WE BENEFIT. To have an economic libertarian blow that too because he doesn't like govt. regulation is yet another indication of the twisted mentation processes of defective libertarian ideology. EVERYTHING IS OK IF IT MAKES MONEY. No, I don't defend the FDA or their sponsors. I'm just protecting MY interests from the lunacy of free market Libertarians, who, if they were ever taken more seriously, would be as hazardous to our health as the chemical, medical, and food industries combined. Joshua2 Ha Ha. Here we go. P.A.N.G. (People Are No Good) J2? So you believe that "The People" are too stupid to make their own choices? I don't want "The Government" protecting me from my own stupidity. What a joke. The F.D.A. (like all gov't agencies that "regulate") is really a protection racket for multi national chemical corporations. I thought J2 was smarter then that. Facism exists in order to protect "The People" from "The People". flw DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Free Speech Is Whatever the Government Allows
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/26/99 1:43:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But the FDA has relied on the commercial speech doctrine for its underlying authority, and proceeded in its rulemaking to only approve claims for which there is "significant scientific agreement". What the fuck is wrong with that??? Please Joshua@ you are not telling us that you believe in the FDA?!?!? The agency that is run by ex-corporate shills? Please tell us it ain't so. As to what the fuck is wrong with that I say that my two questions posed above are all the answer that some would need. Teo1000 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Free Speech Is Whatever the Government Allows
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- from: http://www.zolatimes.com/V3.4/pageone.html A HREF="http://www.zolatimes.com/V3.4/pageone.html"Laissez Faire City Times - Volume 3 Issue 4/A The Laissez Faire City Times January 25, 1999 - Volume 3, Issue 4 Editor Chief: Emile Zola - Free Speech Is Whatever the Government Allows by Zola Our friends Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw have kicked FDA butt. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has long violated the First Amendment with impunity. According to the FDA, you are not allowed to make scientific statements like "antioxidant nutrients may help prevent certain types of cancer." Not if you sell antioxidant nutrients and you want to put that statement on the bottle, and the FDA hasnt given you permission. Even though the claim may be true and backed up by scientific evidence. Oh how I hate libertarian bullshit! Look at the above statement. The ad line "antioxidant nutrients may help prevent certain types of cancer." does NOT jibe with this scumbag's contention -" Even though the claim may be true and backed up by scientific evidence " because the use of the word MAY instead of DOES indicates that there ISN'T scientific evidence. Otherwise the use of MAY would not be necessary. This whole spiel is typical of Libertarian mind fucking. Anything that restricts the opportunity of making money is Statist horror. But poisoning the gullible public is not nearly as important. It begins with the so-called doctrine of "commercial speech" which is supposed to have less protection than other types of speech under the First Amendment. The U.S. Constitution, of course, doesnt distinguish between commercial speech and any other type of speech. The US Constitution doesn't distinguish a lot of things. Isn't it obvious that commercial speech is not the same as other speech? Commercial speech is intended mind control with the hidden or not so hidden agenda of placing the subject of that speech INTO YOUR MIND whether you like it or not. But the FDA has relied on the commercial speech doctrine for its underlying authority, and proceeded in its rulemaking to only approve claims for which there is "significant scientific agreement". What the fuck is wrong with that??? What is "significant scientific agreement"? Whatever the FDA says it is. They have refused to define the term. Pearson and Shaw grew tired of this nonsense, took the FDA to court, and won in a 3-0 circuit court decision. In defending the FDAs own actions, the FDAs attorney even went to the length of arguing that its parent agency, Health and Human Services, makes misleading statements. The Court mocked this approach. THE COURT: . . . Do you seriously argue that these statements are inherently misleading? MS. KOHL [Christine N. Kohl, representing the FDA]: In the FDAs judgment, Your Honor, yes, they are. There is such power over the consumer in the market place at the point of sale . . . The seller wants to maintain that advantage. THE COURT: . . . what if the proposed statement were exactly what your FDAs parent agency [HHS] said, quote, "Fatty acid omega-3 is under study because of a possible association with a reduced risk of heart disease in certain people." That was the only thing they wanted to put on the label, and it was word for word what HHS put out. Is your position that is inherently deceptive? MS. KOHL: Yes, Your Honor, thats the scientific judgment of the FDA that there is not THE COURT: So HHS, FDAs position is that HHS is making inherently deceptive statements. MS. KOHL: . . . These regulations that are being challenged apply only to labeling on the dietary supplement. THE COURT: But why does that matter? . . . Why is it inherently deceptive in the label, and not in the brochure? You can read Durk and Sandys own account of the case in this issue of The Laissez Faire City Times. Durk Sandy have been hustling " Life extension," and " live forever " crap for years. What the hell. Laissez Faire. Joshua2 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to
[CTRL] Free Speech Is Whatever the Government Allows
-Caveat Lector-
from:
http://www.zolatimes.com/V3.4/pageone.html
A HREF="http://www.zolatimes.com/V3.4/pageone.html"Laissez Faire City Times
- Volume 3 Issue 4/A
The Laissez Faire City Times
January 25, 1999 - Volume 3, Issue 4
Editor Chief: Emile Zola
-
Free Speech Is Whatever the Government Allows
by Zola
Our friends Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw have kicked FDA butt.
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has long violated the First
Amendment with impunity. According to the FDA, you are not allowed to
make scientific statements like "antioxidant nutrients may help prevent
certain types of cancer." Not if you sell antioxidant nutrients and you
want to put that statement on the bottle, and the FDA hasnt given you
permission. Even though the claim may be true and backed up by
scientific evidence.
It begins with the so-called doctrine of "commercial speech" which is
supposed to have less protection than other types of speech under the
First Amendment. The U.S. Constitution, of course, doesnt distinguish
between commercial speech and any other type of speech. But the FDA has
relied on the commercial speech doctrine for its underlying authority,
and proceeded in its rulemaking to only approve claims for which there
is "significant scientific agreement".
What is "significant scientific agreement"? Whatever the FDA says it is.
They have refused to define the term. Pearson and Shaw grew tired of
this nonsense, took the FDA to court, and won in a 3-0 circuit court
decision. In defending the FDAs own actions, the FDAs attorney even
went to the length of arguing that its parent agency, Health and Human
Services, makes misleading statements. The Court mocked this approach.
THE COURT: . . . Do you seriously argue that these statements are
inherently misleading?
MS. KOHL [Christine N. Kohl, representing the FDA]: In the FDAs
judgment, Your Honor, yes, they are. There is such power over the
consumer in the market place at the point of sale . . .
THE COURT: . . . what if the proposed statement were exactly what your
FDAs parent agency [HHS] said, quote, "Fatty acid omega-3 is under
study because of a possible association with a reduced risk of heart
disease in certain people." That was the only thing they wanted to put
on the label, and it was word for word what HHS put out. Is your
position that is inherently deceptive?
MS. KOHL: Yes, Your Honor, thats the scientific judgment of the FDA
that there is not
THE COURT: So HHS, FDAs position is that HHS is making inherently
deceptive statements.
MS. KOHL: . . . These regulations that are being challenged apply only
to labeling on the dietary supplement.
THE COURT: But why does that matter? . . . Why is it inherently
deceptive in the label, and not in the brochure?
You can read Durk and Sandys own account of the case in this issue of
The Laissez Faire City Times.
Commodity Futures
The FDA is not the only government agency trying to regulate free speech
these days. Another one is the Commodity Futures Trading Commission
(CFTC).
As Declan McCullagh notes in a recent article, "CFTC's "Interpretation
Regarding Use of Electronic Media" requires anyone who wants to publish
opinions on commodity futures to ask for a license -- a tedious process
that includes fingerprinting, fees, audits, and a background check.
Publishing without registration is a federal felony" ("Bad Advice,"
Wired News, Jan. 14, 1999, found at
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/17350.html). The penalty
for violating the CFTC regulation is five years in prison and a $500,000
fine.
The Institute for Justice has taken the CFTC to court, arguing that
requiring a person to register as a "commodity trading advisor," even
though a person does not manage funds or offer personal advice, violates
the First Amendment.
Well, heres some trading advice:
Buy Internet stocks and send all your profits to the CFTC.
The Internet guide Yahoo has about $200 million in sales, but 100
million in outstanding shares. Thats $2 of sales per share. Not profits
mind you, but only sales. On Monday, Jan. 11, Yahoos price per share
was $415. That gave it a market capitalization of $41.5 billion. Bigger
than Monsanto. Bigger than Boeing.
Unfortunately, by Friday, Jan. 22, the price of a Yahoo share had fallen
to $286. That gave the company a market value of only $28.6 billion,
down $13 billion in 9 trading days. Easy come, easy go. But, hey, maybe
this is a buying opportunity! And remember, the CFTC needs the money,
for its important work in saving the futures markets from free speech.
Speaking of freebies: Clinton gave his big ("State of the Union") speech
promising anti-impeachment goodies left and right. Including the idea of
putting Social Security funds in the stock market. Ho hum: so much for
the forecast vertical rise in the Dow. The Dow, which had gone up 14
points or so that Tuesday, dropped 19 points on Wednesday--the same day
Greenspan in
Re: [CTRL] Free Speech Is Whatever the Government Allows
-Caveat Lector- Franklin Wayne Poley wrote: That says it all. And "human rights" are however the government defines them. MJ: Yes, no rights exist EXCEPT by FORCE. Regard$, --MJ As property, honestly obtained, is best secured by an equality of rights, so ill-gotten property depends for protection on a monopoly of rights. He who has robbed another of his property, will next endeavor to disarm him of his rights, to secure that property; for when the robber becomes the legislator he believes himself secure. - -Thomas Paine, Dissertations on First Principles of Government DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
