[CTRL] Godwins Law
Title: Pius XII - The forgotten victims of the Holocaust Tenorlove, I think ALL name-calling is very negative and a bad thing to do. Calling people Nazis is especially offensive and not just to Jewish people. I think that is a misconception because so many of our parents fought the Nazis as did their siblings. I always remember how sad my Grandmother was on holidays, still grieving for the three sons she lost in WWII. I have listed below an article which breaks down the 'Forgotten Victims" of the Holocaust, the other 6 million non-Jewish people who died in the death camps and villages of Europe, victims not of fighting but execution. I think this is one of the more slanderous and vicious names a person can be called yet it has become very, very common. Of course Neo-Nazis exist but I do not think there is one behind every bush and I wish people would think before using that particular name because, like you, I have seen it used mostly just to silence people with whom one may not agree. For anyone curious about the other 6 million who were executed, there is an article following with some statistics on those people. Imagine calling a person a Nazi because they are blonde/blue whose Polish grandparents were Holocaust victims. It just is not a nice thing to do without absolute proof which one is not likely to obtain from an email list. Just MHO. ~Amelia~ From: "Tenorlove" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Godwins law -Caveat Lector-There's a fellow on another list I subscribe to, everyone who disagreeswith his theories, is a Nazi. This includes Jews -- I know of 3 Jewswhom he has called Nazi and anti-Semitic. Godwin is right, but doesn'tgo far enough: on a list that is not well-established (like this one),very large (like Priory-of-Sion) or heavily moderated (like EEJH, aJewish history list), the Nazi sobriquet will ignite a flame war thatcauses the list to fold.By Jesus J. Chao 7 of 10 THE FORGOTTEN VICTIMS OF THE HOLOCAUST Ø The persecution of Catholics. Without belittling the unspeakable horrors suffered by Jews, we should not ignore the fact that millions of Catholics were also victims of the Holocaust, as were gypsies, homosexuals, and in much less scale, Orthodox and Protestants. Poland had the biggest Jewish population in Europe and was the only country where there was a mandatory death penalty for those hiding Jews. Many, who were caught sheltering Jews, were killed in a gruesome manner, such as being publicly burned as a warning to others. Although not every Catholic was a victim of the Nazis, it is certain that all the Jews were victims of Hitlers hatred. We should keep in mind the prevailing situation of complete despair throughout Europe at the beginning of the forties. The Germans already occupied Poland, France, Belgium, Holland, Czechoslovakia, Austria, and Norway; and the invasion of the Soviet Union was going on while England was being bombed daily in preparation for the eventual invasion. The United States stayed out of the war until December 7, 1941, when the Japanese attacked the American naval base in Pearl Harbor. The neutral nations, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Sweden and the Vatican, were the only temporarily remaining free territories. Without any military force, all the Pope had was his powerful moral pulpit to encounter the all powerful and victorious German troops. Although the Vatican was neutral, The Church and its flock were being brutally attacked and decimated in the Nazis occupied countries. According to historian William J. OMalley,S.J., "to the genocide of six millions Jews we have to add nine to ten millions Slavic victims (Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Yugoslavs) who were eliminated-not in war, not as saboteurs, not as guerrillas, but sorely because they were Slavic." The Nazis genocide, based on race, should also include half a million gypsies who, just as the Slavs, were executed because they were not member of the superior race, the Aryans. The Nazis in Poland alone murdered more than 3 million Catholics together with over 3 million Jews. (13) About 2,800 clergymen were interned between 1940 and 1945, at Dachau, the infamous Nazi concentration camp. Among them, 2,579 were Catholic clergymen, 109 Protestants, 30 orthodox and two Moslem clergymen. The Catholics came from 38 nations; 1,780 were Polish, 447 German and Austrian, 109 Czech and Slovaks, 50 Yugoslavs, 156 French, 63 Dutch. The auxiliary Polish Bishop of Wladislava died of typhus while imprisoned at Dachau. At least 1034 died in the camp, some victims of medical experimentation by the infamous Dr. Rascher. In 1940, 800 priests died in Buchenwald, 1,200 in 1942 and 3,000 in 1943. And that was just in Buchenwald. As OMalley, pointed out, "That figure, surprising as it might be, does not include the clergy or nuns who were shot, beheaded or
Re: [CTRL] Godwins law
-Caveat Lector- Godwins lawI think this is something this list could use: Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. Hmm. Nazis have been held up us the paragon of total evil. Even more so then the Stalinist Communists (who murdered even more millions then Nazis - guess cause they were around longer). The greatest cause of unnatural death in the world in the past 100 years has been Death by Government or death by rampant statism which has literally killed 100's of millions of people. Nazism is a state of mind. Nazism occurs through incrementalism. Incremental incipient Nazism (and Stalinism) is alive and well throughout the world. As some victims of statism have proclaimed Never again. We should constantly be on the alert for incremental Nazism. What is quite disturbing is that so many today who decry historical Nazism are the same folks who encourage or favor dangerous, incremental statism...the path leading to Nazism and Stalinism. These same Nazi enablers also encourage tribalism, racialism, ethnocentrism. It is the duty of all people everywhere to be on constant alert for the insidious signs of Deadly Statism. Godwin is a foolish ass. flw A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Godwins law
-Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- Godwins lawI think this is something this list could use: Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. Godwin's law must have been formulated by the Nazis on Usenet who couldn't stand up under public scrutiny. -- Best wishes I think you should defend to the death their right to march, and then go down and meet them with baseball bats. -Woody Allen (Born 1935), on the KKK A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Godwins law
-Caveat Lector- its because stalin did it against his own people, which is somehow seen as more acceptable than taking it on the road but if you are looking for real killers, go no further than pol pot -- -- -- -- -- Planet spins - so do I neo-sufi wisdom NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew From: flw [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 10:14:44 -0400 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Godwins law Hmm. Nazis have been held up us the paragon of total evil. Even more so then the Stalinist Communists (who murdered even more millions then Nazis - guess cause they were around longer). A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Godwins law
-Caveat Lector- There's a fellow on another list I subscribe to, everyone who disagrees with his theories, is a Nazi. This includes Jews -- I know of 3 Jews whom he has called Nazi and anti-Semitic. Godwin is right, but doesn't go far enough: on a list that is not well-established (like this one), very large (like Priory-of-Sion) or heavily moderated (like EEJH, a Jewish history list), the Nazi sobriquet will ignite a flame war that causes the list to fold. --- thew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this is something this list could use: Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. __ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
