Re: [CTRL] NM: Condit's Father: Gary Is No Bill Clinton
-Caveat Lector- On Mon, 27 Aug 2001, Amelia wrote: >No, June, I am saying this sort of behavior transcends political >and religious affiliation and is more typical of the human >condition than a particular belief system. YOU are the one trying >to make it a conservative trait when we have just all witnessed a >liberal in the White House pull this routine repeatedly. It is >YOUR political agenda showing and no, it is not the facts. Once again you seem to have missed the point that I am referring to someone of my PERSONAL acquaintance...'political agenda' has nothing to do with it (and in fact I tend towards conservatism on most issues)... >My own life experience is that I have known more liberals who >behaved in this manner and claimed that they were entitled to do so >as it was between two consenting adults, and no one was hurt, etc. That is a far cry from behaving 'in this manner' but giving lipservice to it being wrong, putting on a veneer of conservatism, 'family values', and 'born again Christianity', but continually engaging in such behaviors because the person claims that their periodic acts of 'contrition' -- acts which only come about when they're found out -- in which they suddenly refind Jesus and ask forgiveness of Him -- wipes everything clean and magically sets everything right... That would be fine if the person was SINCERE in their contrition -- but they continually demonstrate their insincerity by continually repeating the offensive behavior...there is no REAL change of heart or attempt at redemption, only the claim that since they 'know' that Jesus has forgiven them, so should everyone else -- meaning no one should expect the offending person to have to actually pay any significant consequences for their offense That is very different than what you claim liberals do, dismiss such behavior as just being between consenting adults and that no one was hurtliberals don't put on the veneer of religiosity and 'family values' and claim that because they prayed to Jesus (prayers only brought about due to the offending person being found out and a demand made that they pay the consequences of such actions) that everything then should just be forgotten and no one should then expect the offending person to pay any consequences... As I said, I personally know someone who plays this game -- claims to be such a good Christian, a conservative who periodically runs for office on 'family values' -- yet he continually lies, cheats, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out he may steal, all because on the occasions the cat has gotten out of the bag he suddenly refinds Jesus, goes running to his church and gets down on his knees with his minister and they both pray to Jesus asking His forgiveness for this man I know...who then claims that because he prayed to Jesus and he 'knows' Jesus has forgiven him, then that means everyone else should, too -- meaning that no one should expect him to pay any consequences, to make any amends, for his previous behavior... And he then merrily goes on his way, and repeats the offensive behavior, never once getting down on his knees and praying to Jesus until the next time he is found out... And according to the article which started this all, that's exactly what Condit and his minister father have done...the elder Condit is claiming that since his son has now prayed to Jesus for forgiveness, that everyone else should just forget about what he has done -- especially his constituents, who the elder Condit seems to feel should automatically reelect his son because his son supposedly has 'repented'... Even if Gary Condit sincerely HAS repented -- a big 'if', which seems unlikely, given his continual wafflings and equivocating on the subject -- he ignores the fact that repenting in and of itself does not free one of having to pay the consequences... If it did, then every convicted murderer who claims to be sorry for what they did should be released from Death Row... June === Check out Alternative Kite Radio at http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere) Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday) === http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL giv
Re: [CTRL] NM: Condit's Father: Gary Is No Bill Clinton
-Caveat Lector- No, June, I am saying this sort of behavior transcends political and religious affiliation and is more typical of the human condition than a particular belief system. YOU are the one trying to make it a conservative trait when we have just all witnessed a liberal in the White House pull this routine repeatedly. It is YOUR political agenda showing and no, it is not the facts. My own life experience is that I have known more liberals who behaved in this manner and claimed that they were entitled to do so as it was between two consenting adults, and no one was hurt, etc. When the family of the parties involved were very much hurt, they they would 'forgive themselves' after much 'soul-searching's and castigate anyone who did not do the same. But neither mine nor your anecdotal experiences makes it peculiar to any one group. I still contend it is universal behavior, smutty as it is. ~Amelia~ "Every man's conscience is vile and depraved--you can't depend on it to be your guide when it is you who must keep it satisfied." Joan Osborn - Original Message - From: "RevCOAL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] NM: Condit's Father: Gary Is No Bill Clinton -Caveat Lector- On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Amelia wrote: >What you are describing here is the exact behavior of LIBERAL Bill >Clinton. Saying it is the 'epitome' of Born-Again Christians and >somehow tying it to conservatives is a very bogus argument as this >behavior is practiced by people of every religion and certainly >every political stripe. I can only refer to what I have personally experienced; the person of my acquaintance whom I described not only claims to be a Born Again Christian, but has more than once run for office on a conservative ticket trumpeting 'family values' (once actually winning office)...while his personal life is anything BUT... And the only time he becomes contrite and asks God for forgiveness (and expects everyone else to, also), is only when he's been caught with his pants down or his hand in the cookie jar...and in his personal belief system, by telling God he's sorry, he's then free to go out and continue the very same behavior that he just asked forgiveness for... Sorry if it doesn't fit in with your personal prejudices against liberals, but them's the facts, ma'am http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] NM: Condit's Father: Gary Is No Bill Clinton
-Caveat Lector- On Sun, 26 Aug 2001, Amelia wrote: >What you are describing here is the exact behavior of LIBERAL Bill >Clinton. Saying it is the 'epitome' of Born-Again Christians and >somehow tying it to conservatives is a very bogus argument as this >behavior is practiced by people of every religion and certainly >every political stripe. I can only refer to what I have personally experienced; the person of my acquaintance whom I described not only claims to be a Born Again Christian, but has more than once run for office on a conservative ticket trumpeting 'family values' (once actually winning office)...while his personal life is anything BUT... And the only time he becomes contrite and asks God for forgiveness (and expects everyone else to, also), is only when he's been caught with his pants down or his hand in the cookie jar...and in his personal belief system, by telling God he's sorry, he's then free to go out and continue the very same behavior that he just asked forgiveness for... Sorry if it doesn't fit in with your personal prejudices against liberals, but them's the facts, ma'am You seem to have forgotten about the exploits of Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggert, those bastions of conservative politics and born-again-religiosity, too... June === Check out Alternative Kite Radio at http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere) Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday) === http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] NM: Condit's Father: Gary Is No Bill Clinton
-Caveat Lector- What you are describing here is the exact behavior of LIBERAL Bill Clinton. Saying it is the 'epitome' of Born-Again Christians and somehow tying it to conservatives is a very bogus argument as this behavior is practiced by people of every religion and certainly every political stripe. It has nothing to do with politics and little to do with religion for this sort of person will justify their behavior regardless and will tailor their beliefs to accommodate their behavior. It is just more fun to blame it on a group you do not like but it is NOT accurate to do so. I know liberal agnostics who behave this way and then 'forgive themselves' and try to denigrate others if they are less generous. ~Amelia~ - Original Message - From: "RevCOAL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] NM: Condit's Father: Gary Is No Bill Clinton Reminds me of someone of personal acquaintance, a conservative with political ambitions...wears a very visible 'cloak' of Conservatism, "Family Values", and especially of "Born Again Christianity" in public, while in private practicing anything but... Until he's caught (with his pants down, as it were)...then he really becomes the epitome of the Born Again Christian, confesses all to Jesus who, he will assure all who will listen, has definitely forgiven him...which to this person means that he now does not have to pay any consequences for his prior actions... Leaving him free to go on and REPEAT those actions once things have cooled down because, 'good Christian' that he is, all he has to do is periodically confess to Jesus and ask for forgiveness, which will make everything 'all right'...allowing him to go out and repeat the same behavior over and over again... Sounds like the Condits are from the same school of religion...as long as Gary Condit occasionally gets down on his knees and admits that he sinned and asks forgiveness -- it's amazing that these guys only get so contrite when they've been found out -- and believes that Jesus has forgiven him and wiped everything clean...then Condit is free to head right out and repeat the same philandering behavior, because Jesus has forgiven him and will continue to forgive him, as long as he periodically asks Jesus to do so... There is no REAL contrition, and no real desire to change the aberrant behavior...which is bad enough; but then these guys turn around and make anyone who isn't as 'forgiving' as they believe Jesus is feel guilty if the person isn't as willing to forgive and to forget... So if Mrs. Condit is understandably pissed off with her husband, he and his father are the type to say that she is 'unChristian', and that if Jesus and God can forgive Condit his sins, then she should too...meaning that she should be a doormat and not hold her husband accountable for his terrible behavior... And by extension, so should his constituents; if God has forgiven Condit (as the Rev. and his son believe), then the constituents shouldn't have any beef June === http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] NM: Condit's Father: Gary Is No Bill Clinton
-Caveat Lector- >The news media has never been satisfied with anything he has said >because he hasn't talked about the sexual relationship," the Rev. >Condit said. So then why not just talk about it, get it over with, and move on? If he had been up front from the start, and in the beginning of May had said "Yeah, Chandra and I had an affair. So what? That's between me, her, and my wife. I have no idea where Chandra is now, as I had nothing to do with her disappearance..."...in all probability the story would have faded to be back pages of newspapers and little if any mention in the electronic media... It's Condit's own waffling and equivocating on the matter that raised eyebrows and interest >"I do not condone sin. I believe that relationships, sexual >relationships outside the bond of marriage, are wrong and sinful. But I >want you also to know that Gary, I prayed with him about this numbers of >times since this thing started. Now what exactly does the good reverend mean by 'since this thing started'? Since Levy's disappearance and her relationship with his son became public knowledge? Or the actual affair itself (which would mean daddy knew about sonny's philandering before the rest of the world did, including ostensibly Carolyn Condit...) >And Gary has got his heart in tune with >God, whether the news media or anybody else wants to believe it or not." Reminds me of someone of personal acquaintance, a conservative with political ambitions...wears a very visible 'cloak' of Conservatism, "Family Values", and especially of "Born Again Christianity" in public, while in private practicing anything but... Until he's caught (with his pants down, as it were)...then he really becomes the epitome of the Born Again Christian, confesses all to Jesus who, he will assure all who will listen, has definitely forgiven him...which to this person means that he now does not have to pay any consequences for his prior actions... Leaving him free to go on and REPEAT those actions once things have cooled down because, 'good Christian' that he is, all he has to do is periodically confess to Jesus and ask for forgiveness, which will make everything 'all right'...allowing him to go out and repeat the same behavior over and over again... Sounds like the Condits are from the same school of religion...as long as Gary Condit occasionally gets down on his knees and admits that he sinned and asks forgiveness -- it's amazing that these guys only get so contrite when they've been found out -- and believes that Jesus has forgiven him and wiped everything clean...then Condit is free to head right out and repeat the same philandering behavior, because Jesus has forgiven him and will continue to forgive him, as long as he periodically asks Jesus to do so... There is no REAL contrition, and no real desire to change the aberrant behavior...which is bad enough; but then these guys turn around and make anyone who isn't as 'forgiving' as they believe Jesus is feel guilty if the person isn't as willing to forgive and to forget... So if Mrs. Condit is understandably pissed off with her husband, he and his father are the type to say that she is 'unChristian', and that if Jesus and God can forgive Condit his sins, then she should too...meaning that she should be a doormat and not hold her husband accountable for his terrible behavior... And by extension, so should his constituents; if God has forgiven Condit (as the Rev. and his son believe), then the constituents shouldn't have any beef June === Check out Alternative Kite Radio at http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere) Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday) === http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl
[CTRL] NM: Condit's Father: Gary Is No Bill Clinton
-Caveat Lector- With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff For the story behind the story... Friday, Aug. 24, 2001 10:22 p.m. EDT Condit's Father: Gary Is No Bill Clinton The Rev. Adrian Condit, father of embattled congressman Gary Condit, insisted Friday night that he saw no similarity between his son's conduct in the Chandra Levy scandal and disgraced ex-President Bill Clinton's handling of his own affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky. "Absolutely not. Gary did not lie. He is not a liar," the Rev. Condit said in an exclusive interview with WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg. "Bill Clinton, when he said he didn't have a sexual relationship - of course he was lying," the Rev. Condit added. "Gary has not lied. He said he had a relationship. He just - he won't talk about the sexual aspect of it. ... If people could just read in between the lines there they would know what he was talking about without going into a lot of detail." The Rev. Condit also reacted to House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt's comments earlier in the day, when the top Democrat said he found the congressman's responses Thursday night to ABC newswoman Connie Chung's questions "evasive" and "disturbing and wrong." "I don't know where he was coming from," the Rev. Condit told Malzberg. "I think he probably feels a little bit pressed, as a lot of the Democratic leaders do, to say something negative. This is his way, I guess, of being a little bit negative. ... I don't know what questions he thought Gary was being evasive on." The Rev. Condit condemned the media for sensationalizing the Levy case, and blamed Chung for zeroing in on the sexual aspect of his son's relationship with the missing intern. "I think Connie spent the biggest part of that interview wanting Gary to talk about a sexual relationship more than trying to find out some of the other important things that, to me, should have been asked. ... The news media has never been satisfied with anything he has said because he hasn't talked about the sexual relationship," the Rev. Condit said. The fundamentalist preacher told Malzberg that Rep. Condit was raised with a strict sense of family values. "Our family is a family of very conservative values. I grew up and I grew my family up trying to have a great faith and trust in God and his son, the Lord Jesus Christ. We are a very family-oriented group. We believe in family, we believe in country, we believe in America and the great freedoms that we have in America." The Rev. Condit emphasized that he in no way countenanced his son's philandering. "I do not condone sin. I believe that relationships, sexual relationships outside the bond of marriage, are wrong and sinful. But I want you also to know that Gary, I prayed with him about this numbers of times since this thing started. And Gary has got his heart in tune with God, whether the news media or anybody else wants to believe it or not." The Rev. Condit added, "I'm not condoning anything that's contrary to the word of God. I want people to know that." During his interview with Malzberg, the preacher echoed his son's claim to ABC Thursday night that he had told investigators everything he knows about the Levy mystery. "I'm telling you now that he has told the police and the FBI and the Justice Department everything that he knows about her and her disappearance. He does not know any more to tell. He's told it all." And the face of polls showing Congressman Condit's disappointing performance with Chung severely damaged his political future, the Rev. Condit told Malzberg: "My personal opinion is that if we would have an election next week, that Gary would be re-elected. I believe the constituents in our district here have known Gary for over thirty years now. And he has served his constituents well. He's done a great job. ... I honestly feel that if he was being voted on next week, that he'd be re-elected." Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT FROM THE DESK OF: *Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
