Re: [CTRL] Priest: McVeigh sought forgiveness
-Caveat Lector- This is what really irks me about people who speculate about Hell and who might be there. The bible says that there is only one unforgivable sin (blaspheming the Holy Spirit.I understand that this means denying the power of God). If someone sincerely repents he or she can most assuredly go to Heaven. Hell is a place that you go to by Choice. Tim was not a case of a death bed conversion either. He had wrote before on this topic so this was on his mind for some time. No matter what Tim did people were going to misinterpret his motives depending on their own point of view. Take the execution for instance, When Tim strained to raise his head and look at the witnesses some witnesses saw acceptance of his fate. the bombing surrivor's family members saw smugness or an attittude. magnetic field - Original Message - From: "Prudence L. Kuhn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Priest: McVeigh sought forgiveness > -Caveat Lector- > > In a message dated 06/13/2001 7:04:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > writes: > > << "Totally honest, in all his goodness and in all his sinfulness, and humbly > asking God through Jesus Christ's life and death and resurrection to ask > God to forgive his sinfulness and pardon it, to save him and lead him to > eternal life." >> > > I wonder if the ones responsible for Waco have ever asked forgiveness? There > were an awful lot of unnecessary deaths there as well. Prudy > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Priest: McVeigh sought forgiveness
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 06/13/2001 7:04:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << "Totally honest, in all his goodness and in all his sinfulness, and humbly asking God through Jesus Christ's life and death and resurrection to ask God to forgive his sinfulness and pardon it, to save him and lead him to eternal life." >> I wonder if the ones responsible for Waco have ever asked forgiveness? There were an awful lot of unnecessary deaths there as well. Prudy http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Priest: McVeigh sought forgiveness
-Caveat Lector- WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War! Priest: McVeigh sought forgiveness Tuesday, 12 June 2001 21:49 (ET) Priest: McVeigh sought forgiveness TERRE HAUTE, Ind., June 12 (UPI) -- The Roman Catholic priest who visited Oklahoma bomber Timothy J. McVeigh in prison said Tuesday that 33-year-old sought forgiveness for his sins by asking for the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick, hours before he was executed. "You can interpret that as a desire to stand before God as his (McVeigh's) earthly life was ending," the priest told United Press International. "Totally honest, in all his goodness and in all his sinfulness, and humbly asking God through Jesus Christ's life and death and resurrection to ask God to forgive his sinfulness and pardon it, to save him and lead him to eternal life." The Rev. Ron Ashmore of St. Margaret Mary Church, of Terre Haute, Ind., whose parish is located five minutes from the U.S. Penitentiary where McVeigh had been on death row, said he visited the Pendleton, N.Y., native for more than a year. He was asked to do outreach for the Catholic inmates when there was no prison chaplain and he often went there twice a week. Later, a full-time Catholic staff chaplain, the Rev. Frank Roof, was hired but Ashmore said he kept in touch with some of the inmates including McVeigh. "Tim asked to have the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick or Dying, if facing imminent death, at around 4 or 5 in the morning," Ashmore said. Ashmore said he was not there but that he was curious and found out what happened by speaking with McVeigh's attorney and the chaplain. "This is what happened: the warden asked Tim's attorney whether Tim wanted 'the last anointing of his church?' and that the staff chaplain was available," Ashmore said. "The attorney then asked Tim and he said 'I do.'" The warden was amenable to having the execution by lethal injection delayed to accommodate the Last Rites, but it was not necessary. "Tim was intelligent and he knows his faith and he knew what he was asking for," Ashmore said. "While he probably didn't practice his faith publicly since high school he knows his faith-he's absolutely in heaven." Ashmore explained that the prison chaplain and McVeigh did not simply meet before his execution but that as a Catholic McVeigh requested the last anointing and that he "had to request it." "As a Catholic, he requested the last anointing-he knew what he was asking to do-to stand before God, seek his pardon and forgiveness and to fill him with God's grace and lead him to life eternal and feel God's love," Ashmore said. Ashmore, who described McVeigh as "a good man who did an evil thing," was trying to make amends with everyone and that his attorney Robert Nigh helped him think through what he did-"it's a process that takes time." "Tim made himself right with God, and he did so even before the final anointing," Ashmore said. "But that's an ongoing process and we Catholics believe it's takes a lifetime, and Nigh said he could not successfully help Tim express words of reconciliation in an honest way." According to Ashmore, Catholics are against the death penalty because it doesn't allow a person the time to continue that process-it takes time -- "a lifetime" and Roman Catholics believe it's inappropriate to stop that process. "Tim was in that process and I know that Tim was sensitive to the deaths and pain of all those people and it was a true expression of his heart and he tried to say that in his letters to The Buffalo News," Ashmore explained. "But the government chose to cut that process short under the title of justice." "I am sorry these people had to lose their lives," McVeigh wrote in a series of letters to The Buffalo News, his hometown newspaper, that were published Sunday. "But, that's the nature of the beast. It's understood going in what the human toll will be but that it was a legit tactic in a war." McVeigh, a decorated Army veteran returned from the Persian Gulf War to a hero's welcome but "broken and drained after he had seen death and caused it" according to family members. Unable to find work in western New York, he traveled to 40 states selling arms at gun shows, drifting and agitated about the federal government. He said his bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, that left 168 dead, was done in defense of Americans' rights to personal freedom and a reaction to the federal government's actions at Waco, Texas, and Ruby Ridge, Idaho. "If there would not have been a Waco, I would have put down roots somewhere and not been so unsettled with the fact that my government was a threat to me," McVeigh said. "Everything that Waco implies was on the forefront of my thoughts. That sort of guided my path for the next couple of years, Waco made me decide that you can't lay down roots because you're not even safe in your own room a
