Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain
-Caveat Lector- Andrew Hennessey wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > yeah, yeah but none of that materialism rationally explains remote data > gathered during out of body experiences in distances far beyond the 5 senses > operating in the locality of the body. > we all have an eternal soul - get used to it > > andrew Prove it or shut up. J2 http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain
-Caveat Lector- If there is a spiritual realm it cannot be proven objectively but must always remain a subjective experience. If it does exist (and it may) then it must exist simultaneously with the NON-spiritual. On Tue, 19 June 2001, Foxter wrote: > > > > > > > > > Right, plus the spiritual > realm is on a different plane of experience than the mental or emotional. > There's no reason the spiritual realm can't exist parallel with the > nonspiritual, which it does. > > style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #80 >2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> > - Original Message - > style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: > href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>tenebroust > To:href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:45 > PM > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Religion & The > Brain > -Caveat Lector-I fail to see the controversy in this > issue, it seems to me that there is no way to determine which came first God > or the brain which thinks of him. Religious experience is also a very > personal thing and is experienced markedly differently between any two people > and thus will always be unquantifiable. color=#80 size=2> "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain
-Caveat Lector- I'd have to agree that there is no way that such a thing as numinous experience can be proven objectively, but would also agree that if it does exist (and I don't rule it out completely) it would exist alongside of the non-spiritual world, for it would have to. On Tue, 19 June 2001, "Nurev Ind." wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > >Right, plus the spiritual realm is on a different plane > of experience than the mental or emotional. There's no > reason the spiritual realm can't exist parallel with the > >nonspiritual, which it does. > > > There's no such thing as spiritual. And you can't demonstrate that there is. > All you are describing, is the goings on of the normal and abnormal brain. > > J2 > > >> - Original Message - >From: tenebroust > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:45 PM >Subject: Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain > >-Caveat Lector- > > >> I fail to see the controversy in this issue, it seems > to me that there is no way to >determine which came first God or the brain which > thinks of him. Religious experience >is also a very personal thing and is experienced markedly > differently between any two > >> people and thus will always be unquantifiable. > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain
-Caveat Lector-
>Right, plus the spiritual realm is on a different plane
of experience than the mental or emotional. There's no
reason the spiritual realm can't exist parallel with the
>nonspiritual, which it does.
There's no such thing as spiritual. And you can't demonstrate that there is.
All you are describing, is the goings on of the normal and abnormal brain.
J2
>> - Original Message -
From: tenebroust
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain
-Caveat Lector-
>> I fail to see the controversy in this issue, it seems
to me that there is no way to
determine which came first God or the brain which
thinks of him. Religious experience
is also a very personal thing and is experienced markedly
differently between any two
>> people and thus will always be unquantifiable.
http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Om
Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain
Right, plus the spiritual realm is on a different plane of experience than the mental or emotional. There's no reason the spiritual realm can't exist parallel with the nonspiritual, which it does. - Original Message - From: tenebroust To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain -Caveat Lector-I fail to see the controversy in this issue, it seems to me that there is no way to determine which came first God or the brain which thinks of him. Religious experience is also a very personal thing and is experienced markedly differently between any two people and thus will always be unquantifiable.
Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain
-Caveat Lector- I fail to see the controversy in this issue, it seems to me that there is no way to determine which came first God or the brain which thinks of him. Religious experience is also a very personal thing and is experienced markedly differently between any two people and thus will always be unquantifiable. On Mon, 18 June 2001, William Shannon wrote: > > HREF="http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/science/A10767-2001Jun16.html";>http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/science/A10767-2001Jun16.html > > > > Tracing the Synapses of Our Spirituality > Researchers Examine Relationship Between Brain and Religion > > By Shankar Vedantam > Washington Post Staff Writer > > > Sunday, June 17, 2001; Page A01 > > In Philadelphia, a researcher discovers areas of the brain that are activated > during meditation. At two other universities in San Diego and North Carolina, > doctors study how epilepsy and certain hallucinogenic drugs can produce > religious epiphanies. And in Canada, a neuroscientist fits people with > magnetized helmets that produce "spiritual" experiences for the secular. > > The work is part of a broad effort by scientists around the world to better > understand religious experiences, measure them, and even reproduce them. > Using powerful brain imaging technology, researchers are exploring what > mystics call nirvana, and what Christians describe as a state of grace. > Scientists are asking whether spirituality can be explained in terms of > neural networks, neurotransmitters and brain chemistry. > > What creates that transcendental feeling of being one with the universe? It > could be the decreased activity in the brain's parietal lobe, which helps > regulate the sense of self and physical orientation, research suggests. How > does religion prompt divine feelings of love and compassion? Possibly because > of changes in the frontal lobe, caused by heightened concentration during > meditation. Why do many people have a profound sense that religion has > changed their lives? Perhaps because spiritual practices activate the > temporal lobe, which weights experiences with personal significance. > > "The brain is set up in such a way as to have spiritual experiences and > religious experiences," said Andrew Newberg, a Philadelphia scientist who > wrote the book "Why God Won't Go Away." "Unless there is a fundamental change > in the brain, religion and spirituality will be here for a very long time. > The brain is predisposed to having those experiences and that is why so many > people believe in God." > > The research may represent the bravest frontier of brain research. But > depending on your religious beliefs, it may also be the last straw. For while > Newberg and other scientists say they are trying to bridge the gap between > science and religion, many believers are offended by the notion that God is a > creation of the human brain, rather than the other way around. > > "It reinforces atheistic assumptions and makes religion appear useless," said > Nancey Murphy, a professor of Christian philosophy at Fuller Theological > Seminary in Pasadena, Calif. "If you can explain religious experience purely > as a brain phenomenon, you don't need the assumption of the existence of God." > > Some scientists readily say the research proves there is no such thing as > God. But many others argue that they are religious themselves, and that they > are simply trying to understand how our minds produce a sense of spirituality. > > Newberg, who was catapulted to center stage of the neuroscience-religion > debate by his book and some recent experiments he conducted at the University > of Pennsylvania with co-researcher Eugene D'Aquili, says he has a sense of > his own spirituality, though he declined to say whether he believes in God, > because any answer would prompt people to question his agenda. "I'm really > not trying to use science to prove that God exists or disprove God exists," > he said. > > Newberg's experiment consisted of taking brain scans of Tibetan Buddhist > meditators as they sat immersed in contemplation. After giving them time to > sink into a deep meditative trance, he injected them with a radioactive dye. > Patterns of the dye's residues in the brain were later converted into images. > > Newberg found that certain areas of the brain were altered during deep > meditation. Predictably, these included areas in the front of the brain that > are involved in concentration. But Newberg also found decreased activity in > the parietal lobe, one of the parts of the brain that helps orient a person > in three-dimensional space. > > "When people have spiritual experiences they feel they become one with the > universe and lose their sense of self," he said. "We think that may be > because of what is happening in that area -- if you block that area you lose > that boundary between the self and the rest of the world. In doing so you > ultimately wind up in a universal state
Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain
-Caveat Lector- yeah, yeah but none of that materialism rationally explains remote data gathered during out of body experiences in distances far beyond the 5 senses operating in the locality of the body. we all have an eternal soul - get used to it andrew > > Tracing the Synapses of Our Spirituality > Researchers Examine Relationship Between Brain and Religion > > By Shankar Vedantam > Washington Post Staff Writer > > > Sunday, June 17, 2001; Page A01 > > In Philadelphia, a researcher discovers areas of the brain that are activated > during meditation. At two other universities in San Diego and North Carolina, > doctors study how epilepsy and certain hallucinogenic drugs can produce > religious epiphanies. And in Canada, a neuroscientist fits people with > magnetized helmets that produce "spiritual" experiences for the secular. > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Religion & The Brain
-Caveat Lector- William Shannon wrote: Check out an excellent book called " The God Part of the Brain " and another called " Belief and Make Believe." J2 > > http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/science/A10767-2001Jun16.html > > Tracing the Synapses of Our Spirituality > Researchers Examine Relationship Between Brain and Religion > > By Shankar Vedantam > Washington Post Staff Writer > > Sunday, June 17, 2001; Page A01 > > In Philadelphia, a researcher discovers areas of the brain that are activated > during meditation. At two other universities in San Diego and North Carolina, > doctors study how epilepsy and certain hallucinogenic drugs can produce > religious epiphanies. And in Canada, a neuroscientist fits people with > magnetized helmets that produce "spiritual" experiences for the secular. > > The work is part of a broad effort by scientists around the world to better > understand religious experiences, measure them, and even reproduce them. > Using powerful brain imaging technology, researchers are exploring what > mystics call nirvana, and what Christians describe as a state of grace. > Scientists are asking whether spirituality can be explained in terms of > neural networks, neurotransmitters and brain chemistry. > > What creates that transcendental feeling of being one with the universe? It > could be the decreased activity in the brain's parietal lobe, which helps > regulate the sense of self and physical orientation, research suggests. How > does religion prompt divine feelings of love and compassion? Possibly because > of changes in the frontal lobe, caused by heightened concentration during > meditation. Why do many people have a profound sense that religion has > changed their lives? Perhaps because spiritual practices activate the > temporal lobe, which weights experiences with personal significance. > > "The brain is set up in such a way as to have spiritual experiences and > religious experiences," said Andrew Newberg, a Philadelphia scientist who > wrote the book "Why God Won't Go Away." "Unless there is a fundamental change > in the brain, religion and spirituality will be here for a very long time. > The brain is predisposed to having those experiences and that is why so many > people believe in God." > > The research may represent the bravest frontier of brain research. But > depending on your religious beliefs, it may also be the last straw. For while > Newberg and other scientists say they are trying to bridge the gap between > science and religion, many believers are offended by the notion that God is a > creation of the human brain, rather than the other way around. > > "It reinforces atheistic assumptions and makes religion appear useless," said > Nancey Murphy, a professor of Christian philosophy at Fuller Theological > Seminary in Pasadena, Calif. "If you can explain religious experience purely > as a brain phenomenon, you don't need the assumption of the existence of God." > > Some scientists readily say the research proves there is no such thing as > God. But many others argue that they are religious themselves, and that they > are simply trying to understand how our minds produce a sense of spirituality. > > Newberg, who was catapulted to center stage of the neuroscience-religion > debate by his book and some recent experiments he conducted at the University > of Pennsylvania with co-researcher Eugene D'Aquili, says he has a sense of > his own spirituality, though he declined to say whether he believes in God, > because any answer would prompt people to question his agenda. "I'm really > not trying to use science to prove that God exists or disprove God exists," > he said. > > Newberg's experiment consisted of taking brain scans of Tibetan Buddhist > meditators as they sat immersed in contemplation. After giving them time to > sink into a deep meditative trance, he injected them with a radioactive dye. > Patterns of the dye's residues in the brain were later converted into images. > > Newberg found that certain areas of the brain were altered during deep > meditation. Predictably, these included areas in the front of the brain that > are involved in concentration. But Newberg also found decreased activity in > the parietal lobe, one of the parts of the brain that helps orient a person > in three-dimensional space. > > "When people have spiritual experiences they feel they become one with the > universe and lose their sense of self," he said. "We think that may be > because of what is happening in that area -- if you block that area you lose > that boundary between the self and the rest of the world. In doing so you > ultimately wind up in a universal state." > > Across the country, at the University of California in San Diego, other > neuroscientists are studying why religious experiences seem to accompany > epileptic seizures in some patients. At Duke University, psychiatrist Roy > Mathew is studying hallucinogenic drugs that can produce mystical experiences > and h
[CTRL] Religion & The Brain
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/science/A10767-2001Jun16.html Tracing the Synapses of Our Spirituality Researchers Examine Relationship Between Brain and Religion By Shankar Vedantam Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, June 17, 2001; Page A01 In Philadelphia, a researcher discovers areas of the brain that are activated during meditation. At two other universities in San Diego and North Carolina, doctors study how epilepsy and certain hallucinogenic drugs can produce religious epiphanies. And in Canada, a neuroscientist fits people with magnetized helmets that produce "spiritual" experiences for the secular. The work is part of a broad effort by scientists around the world to better understand religious experiences, measure them, and even reproduce them. Using powerful brain imaging technology, researchers are exploring what mystics call nirvana, and what Christians describe as a state of grace. Scientists are asking whether spirituality can be explained in terms of neural networks, neurotransmitters and brain chemistry. What creates that transcendental feeling of being one with the universe? It could be the decreased activity in the brain's parietal lobe, which helps regulate the sense of self and physical orientation, research suggests. How does religion prompt divine feelings of love and compassion? Possibly because of changes in the frontal lobe, caused by heightened concentration during meditation. Why do many people have a profound sense that religion has changed their lives? Perhaps because spiritual practices activate the temporal lobe, which weights experiences with personal significance. "The brain is set up in such a way as to have spiritual experiences and religious experiences," said Andrew Newberg, a Philadelphia scientist who wrote the book "Why God Won't Go Away." "Unless there is a fundamental change in the brain, religion and spirituality will be here for a very long time. The brain is predisposed to having those experiences and that is why so many people believe in God." The research may represent the bravest frontier of brain research. But depending on your religious beliefs, it may also be the last straw. For while Newberg and other scientists say they are trying to bridge the gap between science and religion, many believers are offended by the notion that God is a creation of the human brain, rather than the other way around. "It reinforces atheistic assumptions and makes religion appear useless," said Nancey Murphy, a professor of Christian philosophy at Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, Calif. "If you can explain religious experience purely as a brain phenomenon, you don't need the assumption of the existence of God." Some scientists readily say the research proves there is no such thing as God. But many others argue that they are religious themselves, and that they are simply trying to understand how our minds produce a sense of spirituality. Newberg, who was catapulted to center stage of the neuroscience-religion debate by his book and some recent experiments he conducted at the University of Pennsylvania with co-researcher Eugene D'Aquili, says he has a sense of his own spirituality, though he declined to say whether he believes in God, because any answer would prompt people to question his agenda. "I'm really not trying to use science to prove that God exists or disprove God exists," he said. Newberg's experiment consisted of taking brain scans of Tibetan Buddhist meditators as they sat immersed in contemplation. After giving them time to sink into a deep meditative trance, he injected them with a radioactive dye. Patterns of the dye's residues in the brain were later converted into images. Newberg found that certain areas of the brain were altered during deep meditation. Predictably, these included areas in the front of the brain that are involved in concentration. But Newberg also found decreased activity in the parietal lobe, one of the parts of the brain that helps orient a person in three-dimensional space. "When people have spiritual experiences they feel they become one with the universe and lose their sense of self," he said. "We think that may be because of what is happening in that area -- if you block that area you lose that boundary between the self and the rest of the world. In doing so you ultimately wind up in a universal state." Across the country, at the University of California in San Diego, other neuroscientists are studying why religious experiences seem to accompany epileptic seizures in some patients. At Duke University, psychiatrist Roy Mathew is studying hallucinogenic drugs that can produce mystical experiences and have long been used in certain religious traditions. Could the flash of wisdom that came over Siddhartha Gautama -- the Buddha -- have been nothing more than his parietal lobe quieting down? Could the voices that Moses and Mohammed heard on remote mountaintops have been just a bunch of firing neurons -- an ill
