Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation (Rant)
-Caveat Lector- In a sense, the problem lies in what Spengler identified as the distinction between a *culture* and a *civilization*--the culture is living, growing, constantly changing, while the civilization has grown stagnant, rigid, resistant to change, and increasingly stratified. There are clear signs that a new world culture is being born, but the Imperial Civilization that rules our planet is doing its best to abort that birth process. I don't want to carry this argument too far; as anyone who has studied Spengler knows, it does have serious flaws. But SOMETHING is starting to emerge from the chaos and confusion--a true *Novus Ordo Seclorum*, not "the New World Order" but a new order of the ages, whose basic assumptions and structures are radically different from those of the *Ancien Regime*... > -Original Message- > From: Das GOAT [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 11:53 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation (Rant) > > -Caveat Lector- > > Hell, let's be thorough and go all the way back to the first High > Civilization in SUMER -- which is also where Buckminster Fuller's analysis > of > our ULTIMATE problem led him. > > Otherwise, thanks, Linda, for keeping readers up to speed on the > principles > of genuine power, which today are no different than as earlier given in > Machiavelli and Sun Tzu, only more sophisticated as applied also through > our > new technological, industrial, and scientific (not to mention sociological > and psychological) tools used as weaponry.. > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation (Rant)
-Caveat Lector- Sorry if this is sort of a riff off your rant, Goat, but I do get your point. I have just had two rather odd experiences. 1.The advent of Floyd in upstate New York turned off the power in my very local upstate NY neighborhood for almost 24 hours. (Not the whole town but the block where I live and a few blocks to the west of me.) It went out at 8:30 p.m. and didn't come on again until around 4 the next afternoon. When I went looking for info, folks told me that there were lots of power lines down. But when I went out walking, I didn't see a single onenot even where big trees were down. In the NW corner of my house there is a sort of rumble that sounds like a motor running. It has a vibration to it, so if you plug your ears, you can still hear/feel it. Over the past year, I have experimented with turning off the furnace, the water heater, the fridge, gone down into the basement at 3 in the morning looking for the source of this noise, but have never found it. (Actually, it is least noticeable in the basement.) Curiously, with ALL the power off, this noise/vibration was still there. Someone who was working at my house heard it also. What would you do if you had this noise/vibration in your house? 2.When I got up on Saturday morning, I noticed that there were a lot of cars parked in front of the Episcopal church across the street from me. At first I thought it might be a funeral or perhaps a wedding rehearsal, since there are very rarely cars on Saturday-- but Always on Sunday. Late in the morning, the people came out of the church, and guess who they were? The local public highschool football team--in uniform! All those cars full of teenagers looked so serious and determined as the zoomed off towards the playing fields. Does this mean that the public school football team attends pregame prayer meetings. That the public highschool is playing football for Jesus? Is this kosher? sno0wl DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation (Rant)
-Caveat Lector- Our Roman Heritage. Linda Minor wrote: > > > Since I'm not nearly as articulate or poetic as Goat, I'd just like to post > the following excerpt from an article one of LaRouche's associates wrote > about his research into how the oligarchy of Venice controlled the destiny > of the age in which it lived, and has actually perpetuated itself into the > present day. The evil that we see everywhere we looked is the same evil > that existed in the 15th Century, the 14th and back as far as you want to > go. > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation [rant]
-Caveat Lector- Original Message Follows From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. the situation is now the individual vs the State. and is being carried by events. .. I must disagree. The "state" keeps us subservient by making us into individuals, by dividing to conquer. I think it is more a case of the state vs. any real community. The individual is no threat to the state; the individual is easily manipulated. United communities independent from the state are the threat. __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation (Rant)
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 99-09-18 22:55:04 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I'd just like to post the following excerpt from an article one of LaRouche's >associates wrote about his research into how the oligarchy of Venice controlled >the destiny of the age in which it lived, and has actually perpetuated itself into >the present day. The evil that we see everywhere we looked is the same evil >that existed in the 15th Century, the 14th and back as far as you want to go. Hell, let's be thorough and go all the way back to the first High Civilization in SUMER -- which is also where Buckminster Fuller's analysis of our ULTIMATE problem led him. Otherwise, thanks, Linda, for keeping readers up to speed on the principles of genuine power, which today are no different than as earlier given in Machiavelli and Sun Tzu, only more sophisticated as applied also through our new technological, industrial, and scientific (not to mention sociological and psychological) tools used as weaponry.. DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation (Rant)
-Caveat Lector- Das Goat wrote: >>BTW, when in history has a ruling oligarchy ever "let events unfold naturally"? LOL >2. the situation is now the individual vs the State and is being carried by events >We are essentially observers.to the tide of future history. The best we can hope for, IMHO, is that an influential segment of the general public will be able to RECOGNIZE what's going on and at least not be "hoodwinked" by the State.<< Since I'm not nearly as articulate or poetic as Goat, I'd just like to post the following excerpt from an article one of LaRouche's associates wrote about his research into how the oligarchy of Venice controlled the destiny of the age in which it lived, and has actually perpetuated itself into the present day. The evil that we see everywhere we looked is the same evil that existed in the 15th Century, the 14th and back as far as you want to go. The problem in dealing with this evil is that "normal" people conceive of evil in terms of minor vice and cannot conceive of the massive proportions to which an oligarchy will go to preserve its mode of existence. Below is a small excerpt only from the article, but I recommend reading it in its entirety. The site will also take you to other articles in the series written by Don Phau, who, by the way, was one of the LaRouche associates imprisoned for several years by LaRouche enemies. Linda Minor "The Venetian method is the method of not taking sides, but playing sides against one another, to one's advantage. You go into a country, you go among a people, you go to an individual person, and you corrupt them by knowing the principle of corruption which is imbedded in every person. That principle of corruption is the person's self-ego as an autonomous ego, as a microcosm, in counterposition, in struggle, against the macrocosm. Not the individual as a part of a macrocosm, as a reflection of the macrocosm; not the individual as imago Dei--in the image of God the Creator--but the individual as a sensual creature in war against not all but the all, to correct the ordinary reading of Hobbes. Once you understand that method, you can see the examples of how that method is consciously applied by the Venetians, in philosophy and elsewhere. That is what empiricism is, what materialism is, in the form in which people like Pompanazzi, Gasparo Contarini, and so forth, introduced it [into western philosophical thinking]. " ---Lyndon LaRouche http://members.tripod.com/~american_almanac/venphau1.htm Venice: The Methodology of Evil -- Part I by Donald Phau Printed in The American Almanac, May 16, 1994. Venice's navy was the power which was the basis for its domination of world trade from the thirteenth century to the beginning of the sixteenth century. With its geographical location, Venice controlled all commerce between the East and the West. All trade with India, China, and the Mideast, unless it went on dangerous routes over land, went through Venice. The Venetian State controlled all commerce, i.e., it was hardly an example of free enterprise. Clement writes: ``Private owners of vessels were not allowed to send cargoes to ports where Venice sent fleets. Vessels were built and fitted out by the State, and put up at auction to be bidden for by the merchants, the voyages all being made according to regulations, and a good share of the profits paid to the State. Private owners were licensed before freightening a ship, and no ship not commanded by a Venetian was permitted to sail from the lagoons. Ships of war guarded the mouths of the rivers, and all foreign vessels were liable to inspection. All kinds of goods carried in Venetian ships were obliged to be taken to Venice before they could be sent to any other port.'' ... Venice used every trick and deceit to try to play off one nation against the other to regain her empire. Her main weapon was her diplomats. At the beginning, Venice formulated one strategy to ally with France against the Holy Roman Emperor, Maximillian. In return, France would aid her in reconquering her lost cities. Part of her strategy, which we will focus on, was to keep England, a growing power, neutral. In 1515, the Serenissima sent one of her most capable diplomats, Sebastian Giustinian, to London. Giustinian's diplomatic dispatches provide an insight into the ``principle of evil'' at work. The ambassador's task was to profile England's new King, Henry VIII, and his court, gain Henry's confidence and manipulate him to Venice's ends. In one of his first dispatches from London, he acknowledges his instructions to act with deceit to accomplish his mission. He writes: ``I shall keep well on the watch to learn everything, and will endeavour to ingratiate myself well with these lords, and of the result, my letters shall inform your sublimity.'' Guistinian's assignment to England came at a transition point in Venice's strategy for control of Europe. With the opening of the route around southern Africa in 1498, the c
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation [rant]
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 99-09-18 10:35:36 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >l. Too late for rational solution, yes. What I am concerned about is a >bunch of irrational hotheads fomented by "agents provocateurs" kicking off a >self defeating fight against the State. Let events unfold naturally. It's a sad fact indeed that you, being as astute as you are, must agree with me But yes, what most of us are concerned about here on CTRL is that there at least *appears* to be some effort by the government, through its "agents provocateur," to foment random acts of mass violence IN ADVANCE of the more rationally-directed equivalent occurring, in order to justify exactly the kind of repressive government measures that would be needed if the latter were to manifest -- with the support of a frightened or angry public, which would NOT be the case should the latter occur. I can't decide whether such incidents as the Columbine mass-murder or the by now stereotypical "falling down" of unbalanced losers like Buford Furrow are products of a government program to create "mind controlled" assassins --time-bomb "agents in place"-- or just natural "random" expressions of free-floating collective rage in a populace starting to reach the breaking point thanks to the cumulative weight of all our culture's social and economic injustices, in which the government plays a major role. In other words, there's no telling whether such incidents are DIRECTLY or, through a pile-up of unfortunate social circumstances resulting in individual psychotic breakdowns, only INDIRECTLY connected with government strategy common in a pre-revolutionary period. But the government is certainly responding as if they WERE, if only in how the opportunity is seized in calculated fashion to institute such programs as gun control, pre-emptive "profiling" of those who MIGHT revolt (for less psychotic reasons), and mass surveillance of the citizenry beyond what is justifiably needed in a free society. That impression is even stronger when we note how the mechanisms for repression were already being put in place a decade ago, under the presidency of George Bush, back when such acts of random mass violence were statistically rare -- only continuing the "contingency plans" drawn up during the Nixon era, and later the Reagan era, for "martial law" to control domestic resistance to the State's imperialistic foreign policy and muzzle a citizenry increasingly recognizing and distrusting its Nazi-like behavior. The government today is behaving exactly as J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon did when faced with rational dissent or legitimate protest -- it's promoting a "demonology" (the "Communist menace" back then, the threat of "foreign and domestic terrorists" nowadays) to justify its own authoritarianism and absolutism, altogether self-servingly. If domestic covert ops (MK-Ultra, "Operation Chaos," etc) and "agents provocateurs" were standard operating procedure back then, why should we think they aren't NOW, under roughly analogous circumstances? You're correct, in my opinion, about Waco (and the World Trade Center and Murrah Building bombings) being "Reichstag fires." The government is acting systematically as if preparing to head off a REVOLUTION, NOT "terrorism" (foreign or domestic) and psychotic breaks in "lone nuts" with guns. Of course, the government is no doubt also trying to "provoke" what might APPEAR to be a "revolution," as a preferred alternative to the REAL thing, and government agents (Ollie North and Gordon Liddy come to mind, and perhaps "militia" types like Bo Gritz) have already infiltrated the milieu from which the public has been led to believe a real "revolt" MAY come, hoping to steer such a "revolt" safely back under fascist control. BTW, when in history has a ruling oligarchy ever "let events unfold naturally"? LOL >2. the situation is now the individual vs the State and is being carried by events >We are essentially observers.to the tide of future history. The best we can hope for, IMHO, is that an influential segment of the general public will be able to RECOGNIZE what's going on and at least not be "hoodwinked" by the State.. >3. However some recent revolutions have been very much a small group >sparking [for] the masses. Many years ago I was digging around in the Hoover >Institution Tower and found a bundle of papers relating to the Sun Yat Sen >revolution in China (1912) All the ingredients for a fomented revolution: >names of Wall Street bankers, agreements for concessions, Chinese request for >funds, even lists of arms shipped, expenditures neatly itemized,above all the >names of people involved Chinese and American These were not intellectuals >they were entrepreneurs who wanted mineral and railroad concessions. the >papers show a business arrangement rather than anything else. . > >Second, the Bolshevik Revolution was a small group Lenin, Trostsky with maybe >10,000 followersand with outside f
[CTRL] SWAT Nation [rant]
-Caveat Lector- Whew! In general I agree...but some comments. l. Too late for rational solution, yes. What I am concerned about is a bunch of irrational hotheads fomented by "agents provocateurs" kicking off a self defeating fight against the State. Let events unfold naturally. 2. the situation is now the individual vs the State. and is being carried by events We are essentially observers.to the tide of future history. 3. However some recent revolutions have been very much a small group sparking the masses. Many years ago I was digging around in the Hoover Institution Tower and found a bundle of papers relating to the Sun Yat Sen revolution in China (1912) All the ingredients for a fomented revolution: names of Wall Street bankers, agreements for concessions, Chinese request for funds, even lists of arms shipped, expenditures neatly itemized,above all the names of people involved Chinese and American These were not intellectuals they were entrepreneurs who wanted mineral and railroad concessions. the papers show a business arrangement rather than anything else. . Second the Bolshevik Revolution was a small group Lenin, Trostsky with maybe 10,000 followersand with outside funds.. Same with Hitler, outside help. In fact Putzi Haenfstengl, Roosevelt's college friend, was right at the core of the Nazi movement. 4. There has to be a mass movement for revolution but up to now it has been influenced rather than controled by "leaders" and by outside influences, usually funding. Today I suggest the mass participatory Internet has become a leader along with a more (semi-) "educated" audience. This still leaves intellectual leaders essentially sitting on the sidelines as hypnotized observers.. This revolution in some ways is more like the 1933 Nazi revolution ( and I wonder about Waco and similarity to the Reichstag fire)... A docile general population, outside funding ( cocaine billions), jackbooted thugs. On the other side the Internet and a somewhat more alert educated citizenry. What are the techies in Silicon Valley going to do? These are quite different people to the 1933 German burgers. It may not pan out the same way.as it has before One hacker may be more significant than an M ll tank. This is more of a "mind revolution" than physical revolution. ASU DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation [rant]
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 99-09-13 18:43:50 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Revolution with guns is self defeating, they would just love that. >A recipe for self destruction. This is 1999 not 1799. Agreed. But remember, for Russians, 1909 to 1917 wasn't 1709 to 1717 EITHER ... Nor was it for the more modern European satellites of the USSR just over a decade ago, when, as the Berlin Wall came down, Communist officials were dragged out of their legislatures and literally torn to pieces by their newly "capitalist" subjects. I have to wonder if the same savage spectacle will repeat itself when World Capitalism falls. When the pinball game of Society goes TILT, people stop thinking of what "practical" goals are to be accomplished by "revolution" and what constitutes its victory or defeat. Imagine "road rage" multiplied by the millions, "Falling Down" occurring not only in the workplace, directed toward petty-tyrant bosses and the bureaucracies closest at hand, but toward all institutions similar in character, across the board, constraining people's lives. I'm not talking about anything RATIONAL here, much less anything with concrete programs for social change or defined by some ideological dogma. Which is why I've deliberately invoked the image of the French Revolution, rather than, say, the Russian Revolution. A populist mass-revolt against the overcentralized, militarized power of the State in America would, in my opinion, likely be an NIHILIST-ANARCHIST repudiation of "legitimate" authority in ALL its forms, by ordinary people rather than by intellectuals, because, in the common man's experience here, even the very concept of "authority" has been discredited --can no longer be trusted-- and the realm of the "rational" as we experience it --all its buzzwords, slogans, "ideals," promises, and platforms, all just WORDS (opposed to ACTION for significant change) employed HYPOCRITICALLY, to DECEIVE and MISDIRECT the popular will-- has by now become every bit as suspect. The whole structure of governance, high and low, has become so corrupt that it makes more sense to DESTROY it, in toto, than attempt somehow to "repair" it, piecemeal, at a snail's pace, in the face of its apparent momentum toward ultimate totalitarian evil -- and in that sense, there's an unacknowledged purposefulness in apparently "random" acts of individual destructiveness -- in the common man's frustration come to a boil, in free-floating "rage against the machine" at last overwhelming the tinselly "rational" ego which has failed us --betrayed us-- through its sheeplike clinging to safety and security and its fear of danger, pain, or sacrifice, blind to the "laws of the jungle" in effect all around it. Such a sea-change in collective behavior may not seem "logical" or "rational" to "intellectuals" such as you or me, but it may indeed make "sense" in the opposing mode of dealing with reality, the EMOTIONAL, dominant in the other 95% of humanity. In fact, it's possibly a SANER response than OURS, which is merely to nit-pick, weigh and analyze, judge and categorize (words, words, words!), in our splendid ivory-tower isolation from the more common world of SURVIVAL instincts, wherein blood, sweat and tears are the rule, lacking the luxury of "philosophizing" about human suffering. Like it or not, we "intellectuals" are nothing but "back seat drivers" in times of change. It's the PEOPLE --wisely or foolishly-- who MAKE history, meandering where they will, whether at a trot toward greener pastures, turning tail at the smell of predators, or when kicking down manmade (=mind-made) fences with their hooves, in order to remain wild and free, in expression of their god-given nature, following instincts sounder than ours. The world, on our scale, is still a Newtonian one, driven by "forces of nature" -- and the force of a thousand angry men acting in sympathy (even if unknown to each other) is still more effective than any force exerted by the words of a thinker, just "observing." Revolutions are non-rational -- that fact is fundamental. A revolution is basically a riot writ large, with a riot's violence and looting. Its purpose, initially, is to break through all restraints imposed on frustrated desires and impulses (including HIGHER desires and impulses, i.e., SOCIAL needs) by a structure of ideas and a system of enforcing them through "authority" which has become intolerably oppressive -- i.e., more inimical than protective, evoking increasing outrage rather than our assent and willing participation. A revolt-become-revolution is an entirely sensible effort to break those bonds that persist only as chains and destroy the walls of what most people experience only as a prison. And since no societal structure exists purely in the abstract --without flesh-and-blood human beings whose WILLS make it real in practice-- a revolution demands personal hand-to-hand combat against all those among one's fellow men who are committed to
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation
-Caveat Lector- Perhaps we need a new amendment to the U.S. Constitution, along the lines of "Full information being essential to the freedom and security of the nation, the right of the people to keep and hack programs shall not be infringed."... > -Original Message- > From: Ric Carter [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 6:25 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation > > -Caveat Lector- > > - Original Message - > From: Tatman, Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > And which segment of the populace will rise first--will it be the > > ghettos, whose inmates can be easily identified and isolated...or > > the suburbs? It does not pay to underestimate middle-class rage. > > The two greatest revolutions prior to the 20th century, the American > > and French revolutions, were middle-class affairs...and the middle > > class is being royally screwed by the Oligarchy today. > > Also, assumptions are made as to how such a "rising" would occur, > ie that firearms would be involved. A successful modern revolt > IMHO is more likely to involve the efforts of hackers/crackers > attacking the information infrastructure - going for the brains'n' > nerves, rather than just wasting meatware [people] in fruitless > armed conflict. People who think that firearms will bring down > the US gov't just don't appreciate the forces/complexity involved. > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation
-Caveat Lector- Agreed.Revolution with guns is self defeating, they would just love that. A recipe for self destruction. This is 1999 not 1799. Use the dialectic against itself. Both sides are corrupt. Let them destroy each other.Of course we can help it along some.. as you suggest... DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: Tatman, Robert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > And which segment of the populace will rise first--will it be the > ghettos, whose inmates can be easily identified and isolated...or > the suburbs? It does not pay to underestimate middle-class rage. > The two greatest revolutions prior to the 20th century, the American > and French revolutions, were middle-class affairs...and the middle > class is being royally screwed by the Oligarchy today. Also, assumptions are made as to how such a "rising" would occur, ie that firearms would be involved. A successful modern revolt IMHO is more likely to involve the efforts of hackers/crackers attacking the information infrastructure - going for the brains'n' nerves, rather than just wasting meatware [people] in fruitless armed conflict. People who think that firearms will bring down the US gov't just don't appreciate the forces/complexity involved. DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation
-Caveat Lector- And which segment of the populace will rise first--will it be the ghettos, whose inmates can be easily identified and isolated...or the suburbs? It does not pay to underestimate middle-class rage. The two greatest revolutions prior to the 20th century, the American and French revolutions, were middle-class affairs...and the middle class is being royally screwed by the Oligarchy today. > -Original Message- > From: Das GOAT [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 9:20 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation > > The rank and file of the Dark Side of the Force in the fortress called > "government" are clearly arming themseles against the inevitable revolt of > the peasants, knowing well that the People, having been betrayed* by their > ruling class after the FIRST attempt at liberty in the American > Revolution, > can now be expected to try again --with the added element of revenge-- in > a > mass uprising more like the FRENCH Revolution. Because, as in 18th > Century > France, Hell hath no fury like a whole citizenry seduced and abandoned ... === Robert F. Tatman Computer Help Desk Desktop & LAN Services Systems Department Philadelphia Newspapers, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 215.854.2729 215.854.2788 The contents of this message represent the opinion only of the writer, and may not be construed to indicate the endorsement of Knight-Ridder, Inc.; Philadelphia Newspapers, Inc.; The Philadelphia Inquirer; or the Philadelphia Daily News. "Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation?
-Caveat Lector- SWAT Nation? ;-) another indoubtable goatee Bravo Om K DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] SWAT Nation
-Caveat Lector- >This little piece of apartheid-era Soweto stranded in California isn't as >unusual as one might think. Throughout the nation, paramilitary, SWAT, or >tactical policing--that is, law enforcement that uses the equipment, >training, rhetoric, and group tactics of war--are on the rise. According to >a study by sociologist Peter Kraska, the nation now has more than 30,000 >such heavily armed, militarily trained police units. > >First developed in 1966 by a young LAPD commander named Daryl Gates, SWAT >teams were conceived of as an urban counterinsurgency bulwark. One early >SWAT officer explained, "Those people out there--the radicals, the >revolutionaries, and the cop haters--are damned good at using shotguns [and] >bombs or setting ambushes, so we've got to be better at what we do." The above is not a measure of how afraid the American people are of "crime in the streets" -- it's a measure of how afraid our corrupt political institutions are of being publicly recognized as criminal in nature and of being punished for it by the people ... The rank and file of the Dark Side of the Force in the fortress called "government" are clearly arming themseles against the inevitable revolt of the peasants, knowing well that the People, having been betrayed* by their ruling class after the FIRST attempt at liberty in the American Revolution, can now be expected to try again --with the added element of revenge-- in a mass uprising more like the FRENCH Revolution. Because, as in 18th Century France, Hell hath no fury like a whole citizenry seduced and abandoned ... My own idea of "gun control" is that potentially dangerous weapons should be kept out of the hands of tyrants and all their uniformed lackeys. "When the right of law-abiding citizens to bear arms (in self defense) is revoked, only criminals retain the right to bear arms." At this point in time, the most heinous criminals are the "enforcers" for the mob bosses who tyrannize over us in our federal, state and local so-called "governments." This just demonstrates to what extent the People's "representatives" in our so-called "governments" --macro & micro scale-- have, in effect, declared WAR on the People. __ *Look coldly at our history. Immediately after the Revolution, the federal government had already became a monopoly of mercantilist Freemasons who were committed to industrializing the United States after the example of Europe. Hence our Civil War, aimed at bringing the southern states under the control of international finance. From that followed the incalculable fortunes made in railroads, steel and oil by the "robber barons," culminating in the political hegemony of just a few men --Rockefeller, Morgan, Harriman, et al-- with their Anglophile sentiments and proto-globalist alliance with the Rothschilds of the new British Empire, institutionalized by the CFR by the end of the 19th Century. Plutocracy under the guise of "capitalism," and economic imperialism (alongside Britain) as bogus "nationalism." "Democracy" sold to the highest bidder ... In only three generations, Jeffersonian democrats had lost to the republican Federalists who were then, as now, a faux aristocracy of merchant bankers and elitist controllers. Just as with the historic precedent -- all the "populist" uprisings in England during the mid-1600s (the "Glorious Revolution") which resulted, ironically, in only revitalizing the autocratic Nation State, with the added element of a new PLUTOCRATIC ruling class. It's a small jump from the ideals of the Freemasons who created the Royal Society to administer the economy of the Empire, to the Freemasons of 19th Century America -- and in both contexts, it was the rich who were ennobled and ruled as virtual "royalty." All the rest --the stuff of high-school US history textbooks-- is just political "theatre." DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] SWAT Nation
-Caveat Lector- http://www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/07.01.99/swat1-9926.html [ Sonoma County | MetroActive Central | Archives ] SWAT Nation In the post-Columbine hysteria, even the tiny town of Windsor has voted to arm its police with assault weapons. Where's it all going to lead? By Christian Parenti FOR A SNEAK PREVIEW of a future American police state, travel south from the comfortable illusions of the San Francisco Bay Area into the dirty air of California's Central Valley on Interstate 99 to Fresno, a sprawling, poorly planned city of 350,000. Pass the forest of pole-perched McDonald's, Best Western, and Motel 6 signs and turn off on one of the city's southern exits into the ghetto of the southwest side. There, on the dim side streets, among the little bungalows and dying rail yards, massive paramilitary police operations are under way on almost any night. On one such evening, three squads of 10 police officers in combat boots, black jumpsuits, military helmets, and bulletproof vests lock and load their Heckler & Koch MP-54 submachine guns (the same weapons used by the elite Navy SEALs) and fan out through the neighborhood. Meet Fresno's Violent Crime Suppression Unit, local law enforcement's "special forces" and America's most aggressive SWAT team. Since 1994 the VCSU has patrolled this city's have-not suburbs in full military gear, with automatic assault rifles at the ready. Backed by two helicopters with infrared scopes and an Army-surplus armored personnel carrier, the unit is also equipped with attack dogs, smoke bombs, tear gas, pepper spray, metal clubs, and less-than-lethal "blunt trauma" projectiles. "It's a war," explains a law enforcement spokeswoman. In the name of crisis management, the VCSU is free to utilize aggressive and unorthodox tactics. At times the unit deploys troops on foot to surround "hot spot" corners or sweep through neighborhoods. At other times, it rolls in a fleet of new Crown Victorias "like a wolf pack" looking for "contact" (as a VCSU officer put it). Tonight the area of operation is a desolate African-American neighborhood known on the street as the Dog Pound. Most "contacts" involve swooping down on corners and forcing pedestrians to the ground, searching them, running warrant checks, taking photos, and entering all the new "intelligence" into a state database from the high-tech "mobile computer terminals" in each patrol car. All the suspects are black, all the cops are white, and every encounter is scored to the furious growling and barking of the VCSU's tightly leashed Alsatians. "If you're 21, male, living in one of these neighborhoods and you're not in our computer, then there's definitely something wrong," says VCSU officer Paul Boyer as he enters information into his onboard laptop. This little piece of apartheid-era Soweto stranded in California isn't as unusual as one might think. Throughout the nation, paramilitary, SWAT, or tactical policing--that is, law enforcement that uses the equipment, training, rhetoric, and group tactics of war--are on the rise. According to a study by sociologist Peter Kraska, the nation now has more than 30,000 such heavily armed, militarily trained police units. First developed in 1966 by a young LAPD commander named Daryl Gates, SWAT teams were conceived of as an urban counterinsurgency bulwark. One early SWAT officer explained, "Those people out there--the radicals, the revolutionaries, and the cop haters--are damned good at using shotguns [and] bombs or setting ambushes, so we've got to be better at what we do." Even the etymology of L.A.'s initial paramilitary unit reveals a political subtext: Gates started with the acronym SWAT and then filled it in with the name Special Weapons Attack Team. His superiors liked the acronym but found the name a bit too provocative, so it was toned down to the more technical sounding Special Weapons and Tactics. As the '60s and early '70s rolled on, most large metropolitan police departments set up tactical units of their own. Since the mid-'80s, there has been a second wave of SWAT growth. Fueled by state and federal drug-war pork, tactical units have now metastasized from big-city emergency response specialists into standard parts of everyday policing. Even medium-sized towns now have SWAT teams. And instead of only handling emergencies like the occasional barricaded suspect, SWAT teams now conduct routine drug raids and sometimes even patrol high-crime areas in place of regular beat cops. Nationally, activity by paramilitary police units--as measured by the total number of "callouts," or SWAT team mobilizations--quadrupled between 1980 and 1995, according to Kraska's study. And a CBS News survey of SWAT encounters showed a 34 percent rise in police use of deadly force between 1995 and 1998. Increasingly, the Defense Department is supplying the gear for this SWAT buildup. Between 1995 and 1997, the Department of Defense gave local police departments more than 3,800 M
