Re: [CTRL] THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 99-10-20 17:46:17 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >> unassailable fulfillment of Biblical prophecies. How many American and >> European "Christians," I wonder, helped "realize" Biblical prophecies of >the >> Prince of Peace's return by cooperating with regimes whose main passions >were >> war and genocide? > >Well Goat, you were doing OK up until the very last word. Whatever the >Zionists ever managed to pull off, they never committed genocide. Don't get >carried away there. Uh ... Read it again, Josh. The "regimes" (plural) I referred to were those of Hitler and Stalin, both of whom seem to have USED some Zionists to their OWN advantage; and I'm asking how many so-called "Christians" got entrapped in this too, naive intentions subverted and their "charitable" support winding up as cash in meretricious pockets. This is an old subject on CTRL and pls don't forget my position on the issue is akin to yours -- basically, never trust ANY "-ism" or the elites cynically using them as tools for the Same Old Shit. I think, for example, that Israeli journalist Barry Chamish is on the money in attributing much of Israeli politics, supposedly "Zionist," to the NWO boys. DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST
-Caveat Lector- Sorry, Joshua2, but a very good case can be made for genocide by Israeli Zionists against the Palestinian people. Look, for example, at some of the things Ariel Sharon has said and done, especially in the context of the Lebanese war... Looks pretty much like genocide to me, as much genocide as the Turkish massacres of the Armenians. > -Original Message- > From: Nurev Ind Research [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 3:47 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST > > -Caveat Lector- > > Das GOAT wrote: > > > > Sobering post from a point of view not uncommon among Jews but seldom > > publicly expounded due to the politically expedient Israeli strategy of > > equating all anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. The secret cooperation of > > several Zionist "saints" not only with the Nazis but with Stalin's > Comintern, > > amply documented, remains a taboo "politically incorrect" subject. > This > > should be mandatory reading for all those Fundamentaist Christians who > are > > irrationally enamored of the secular State of Israel as some kind of > > unassailable fulfillment of Biblical prophecies. How many American and > > European "Christians," I wonder, helped "realize" Biblical prophecies of > the > > Prince of Peace's return by cooperating with regimes whose main passions > were > > war and genocide? > > Well Goat, you were doing OK up until the very last word. Whatever the > Zionists ever managed to pull off, they never committed genocide. Don't > get > carried away there. > > Joshua2 > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST
-Caveat Lector- Das GOAT wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > > In early January 1941 a small but important Zionist organization > > submitted a formal proposal to German diplomats in Beirut for a > > military-political alliance with wartime Germany. The offer was > > made by the radical underground "Fighters for the Freedom of > > Israel", better known as the Lehi or Stern Gang. Its leader, > > Avraham Stern, had recently broken with the radical nationalist > > "National Military Organization" (Irgun Zvai Leumi - Etzel) over > > the group's attitude toward Britain, which had effectively banned > > further Jewish settlement of Palestine. Stern regarded Britain as > > the main enemy of Zionism. > > > > This remarkable proposal "for the solution of the Jewish question > > in Europe and the active participation on the NMO [Lehi] in the > > war on the side of Germany" is worth quoting at some length: > > > > >3. The establishment of the Jewish state on a > > national and totalitarian basis, and bound by > > treaty with the German Reich, would be in the > > interest of maintaining and strengthening the > > future German position of power in the Near East. > > > (Original document in German Auswertiges Amt Archiv, > > Bestand 47-59, E224152 and E234155-58. > > Complete original text published in: David Yisraeli, > > The Palestinian Problem in German Politics 1889-1945 > > (Israel: 1947) pp. 315-317). > > Sobering post from a point of view not uncommon among Jews but seldom > publicly expounded due to the politically expedient Israeli strategy of > equating all anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. The secret cooperation of > several Zionist "saints" not only with the Nazis but with Stalin's Comintern, > amply documented, remains a taboo "politically incorrect" subject. This > should be mandatory reading for all those Fundamentaist Christians who are > irrationally enamored of the secular State of Israel as some kind of > unassailable fulfillment of Biblical prophecies. How many American and > European "Christians," I wonder, helped "realize" Biblical prophecies of the > Prince of Peace's return by cooperating with regimes whose main passions were > war and genocide? Well Goat, you were doing OK up until the very last word. Whatever the Zionists ever managed to pull off, they never committed genocide. Don't get carried away there. Joshua2 DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST
-Caveat Lector- > In early January 1941 a small but important Zionist organization > submitted a formal proposal to German diplomats in Beirut for a > military-political alliance with wartime Germany. The offer was > made by the radical underground "Fighters for the Freedom of > Israel", better known as the Lehi or Stern Gang. Its leader, > Avraham Stern, had recently broken with the radical nationalist > "National Military Organization" (Irgun Zvai Leumi - Etzel) over > the group's attitude toward Britain, which had effectively banned > further Jewish settlement of Palestine. Stern regarded Britain as > the main enemy of Zionism. > > This remarkable proposal "for the solution of the Jewish question > in Europe and the active participation on the NMO [Lehi] in the > war on the side of Germany" is worth quoting at some length: > >3. The establishment of the Jewish state on a > national and totalitarian basis, and bound by > treaty with the German Reich, would be in the > interest of maintaining and strengthening the > future German position of power in the Near East. > (Original document in German Auswertiges Amt Archiv, > Bestand 47-59, E224152 and E234155-58. > Complete original text published in: David Yisraeli, > The Palestinian Problem in German Politics 1889-1945 > (Israel: 1947) pp. 315-317). Sobering post from a point of view not uncommon among Jews but seldom publicly expounded due to the politically expedient Israeli strategy of equating all anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. The secret cooperation of several Zionist "saints" not only with the Nazis but with Stalin's Comintern, amply documented, remains a taboo "politically incorrect" subject. This should be mandatory reading for all those Fundamentaist Christians who are irrationally enamored of the secular State of Israel as some kind of unassailable fulfillment of Biblical prophecies. How many American and European "Christians," I wonder, helped "realize" Biblical prophecies of the Prince of Peace's return by cooperating with regimes whose main passions were war and genocide? DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST
-Caveat Lector- 10/19/99 I'm not familiar with all the examples given below, but to the best of my knowledge most are true. One must also be aware that the Satmar Hasidim are fanatical fundamentalists who believe that man should not shape his own destiny but leave all things in the hands of god. This group and the assimilationist Jewish Left are the only anti Zionist Jewish groups I know of. There are many Jews who are not Zionists but are also not anti Zi0nist. The lessons should be clear to all. YOU CAN NEVER TRUST YOUR ELITES!!! If ordinary people don't serve their agendas, or better serve elite agendas as slaves or corpses, they are are always willing to make the ultimate sacrifice... YOU. YOU CAN NEVER TRUST YOUR ELITES. ROTATE OFTEN, Joshua2 Bill Kingsbury wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/holocaust.html > > Zionism and >the Holocaust > >THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST > > "Spiritually and Physically Responsible " > > From its' inception, many rabbis warned of the potential dangers > of Zionism and openly declared that all Jews loyal to G-d should > stay away from it like one would from fire. They made their > opinions clear to their congregants and to the general public. > Their message was that Zionism is a chauvinistic racist > phenomenon which has absolutely naught to do with Judaism. They > publicly expressed that Zionism would definitely be detrimental > to the well being of Jews and Gentiles and that its effects on > the Jewish religion would be nothing other than destructive. > Further, it would taint the reputation of Jewry as a whole and > would cause utter confusion in the Jewish and non-Jewish > communities. Judaism is a religion. Judaism is not a race or a > nationality. That was and still remains the consensus amongst the > rabbis. > > We were given the Holy Land by G-d in order to be able to study > and practice the Torah without disturbance and to attain levels > of holiness difficult to attain outside of the Holy Land. We > abused the privilege and we were expelled. That is exactly what > all Jews say in their prayers on every Jewish festival, "Umipnay > chatoenu golinu mayartsaynu" - "Because of our sins we were > expelled from our land". > > We have been forsworn by G-d "not to enter the Holy Land as a > body before the predestined time", "not to rebel against the > nations", to be loyal citizens, not to do anything against the > will of any nation or its honour, not to seek vengeance, discord, > restitution or compensation; "not to leave exile ahead of time." > On the contrary; we have to be humble and accept the yoke of > exile. To violate the oaths would result in "your flesh will be > made prey as the deer and the antelope in the forest," and the > redemption will be delayed. > > (Talmud Tractate Ksubos p. 111a). > > To violate the oaths is not only a sin, it is a heresy because it > is against the fundamentals of our Belief. Only through complete > repentance will the Almighty alone, without any human effort or > intervention, redeem us from exile. This will be after G-d will > send the prophet Elijah and Moshiach who will induce all Jews to > complete repentance. At that time there will be universal peace. > > All of the leading Jewish religious authorities of that era > predicted great hardship to befall humanity generally and the > Jewish People particularly, as a result of Zionism. To be a Jew > means that either one is born to a Jewish mother or converts to > the religion with the condition that he or she make no > reservations with regard to Jewish Law. Unfortunately there are > many Jews who have no inkling whatsoever as to the duties of a > Jew. Many of them are not to blame, for in many cases they lacked > a Jewish education and upbringing. But there are those who > deliberately distort the teachings of our tradition to suit their > personal needs. > > It is self understood that not just anyone has the right or the > ability to make a decision regarding the philosophy or law of a > religion. Especially matters in which that person has no > religion. Especially matters in which that person has no > qualification. It follows then that those individuals who > "decided" that Judaism is a nationality are to be ignored and > even criticized. It is no secret that the founders of Zionism had > never studied Jewish Law nor did they express interest in our > holy tradition. They openly defied Rabbinical authority and > self-appointed themselves as leaders of the Jewish "nation". > > In Jewish history, actions like those have always spelled > disaster. To be a Jew and show open defiance of authority or to > introduce "amendment" or "innovation" without first consulting > with those officially appointed as Jewish spiritual leaders is > the ideal equation to equal catas
[CTRL] THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST
-Caveat Lector- http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/holocaust.html Zionism and the Holocaust THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST "Spiritually and Physically Responsible " From its' inception, many rabbis warned of the potential dangers of Zionism and openly declared that all Jews loyal to G-d should stay away from it like one would from fire. They made their opinions clear to their congregants and to the general public. Their message was that Zionism is a chauvinistic racist phenomenon which has absolutely naught to do with Judaism. They publicly expressed that Zionism would definitely be detrimental to the well being of Jews and Gentiles and that its effects on the Jewish religion would be nothing other than destructive. Further, it would taint the reputation of Jewry as a whole and would cause utter confusion in the Jewish and non-Jewish communities. Judaism is a religion. Judaism is not a race or a nationality. That was and still remains the consensus amongst the rabbis. We were given the Holy Land by G-d in order to be able to study and practice the Torah without disturbance and to attain levels of holiness difficult to attain outside of the Holy Land. We abused the privilege and we were expelled. That is exactly what all Jews say in their prayers on every Jewish festival, "Umipnay chatoenu golinu mayartsaynu" - "Because of our sins we were expelled from our land". We have been forsworn by G-d "not to enter the Holy Land as a body before the predestined time", "not to rebel against the nations", to be loyal citizens, not to do anything against the will of any nation or its honour, not to seek vengeance, discord, restitution or compensation; "not to leave exile ahead of time." On the contrary; we have to be humble and accept the yoke of exile. To violate the oaths would result in "your flesh will be made prey as the deer and the antelope in the forest," and the redemption will be delayed. (Talmud Tractate Ksubos p. 111a). To violate the oaths is not only a sin, it is a heresy because it is against the fundamentals of our Belief. Only through complete repentance will the Almighty alone, without any human effort or intervention, redeem us from exile. This will be after G-d will send the prophet Elijah and Moshiach who will induce all Jews to complete repentance. At that time there will be universal peace. All of the leading Jewish religious authorities of that era predicted great hardship to befall humanity generally and the Jewish People particularly, as a result of Zionism. To be a Jew means that either one is born to a Jewish mother or converts to the religion with the condition that he or she make no reservations with regard to Jewish Law. Unfortunately there are many Jews who have no inkling whatsoever as to the duties of a Jew. Many of them are not to blame, for in many cases they lacked a Jewish education and upbringing. But there are those who deliberately distort the teachings of our tradition to suit their personal needs. It is self understood that not just anyone has the right or the ability to make a decision regarding the philosophy or law of a religion. Especially matters in which that person has no religion. Especially matters in which that person has no qualification. It follows then that those individuals who "decided" that Judaism is a nationality are to be ignored and even criticized. It is no secret that the founders of Zionism had never studied Jewish Law nor did they express interest in our holy tradition. They openly defied Rabbinical authority and self-appointed themselves as leaders of the Jewish "nation". In Jewish history, actions like those have always spelled disaster. To be a Jew and show open defiance of authority or to introduce "amendment" or "innovation" without first consulting with those officially appointed as Jewish spiritual leaders is the ideal equation to equal catastrophe. One can not just decide to "modernize" ancient traditions or regulations. The spiritual leaders of contemporary Judaism better known as Orthodox rabbis have received ordination to judge and interpret matters pertaining to the Jewish faith. These rabbis have received their rights and responsibilities and form a link in the unbroken chain of the Jewish tradition dating all the way back to Moses who received the Torah from Almighty G-d Himself. It was these very rabbis who, at the time of the formation of the Zionist movement, foresaw the pernicious outcome that was without a doubt lined up. It was a man possessing outstanding Judaic genius, and a level of uncontested holiness who enunciated the Jewish stance regarding Zionism. This charismatic individual, the Rebbe of Satmar, Grand Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum, did not mince any words. Straight to the point he called Zionism "the work of Satan", "a sacrilege" and "a blasphemy". He forbade any par
