Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- Another one of Shannons opinion comments. Want to support the comment with some facts? If you do try, please use current information and not some old article from the 30s. Anyone who can think for themselves, who has read your posts for a single day, knows you are not a neutral source and can be ignored. Only those who compile lists of anti-Semitic sources can take the time to check on all of your sources and their supposed facts. Same here! Too bad the Zionazis OWN the press! Bill. A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Om
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 11/30/2002 10:20:38 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone who can think for themselves, who has read your posts for a single day, knows you are not a neutral source and can be ignored. Only those who compile lists of anti-Semitic sources can take the time to check on all of your sources and their supposed facts. And you are so obviously a ADL SHILL that you are a joke. Go back to the drum corps...your incessant pounding of the Zionazi war march is a little monotonous. Bill. A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- Well Zuukie, I'm not so much a "researcher" of these undercurrents as I probably am a theatregoer. Whatit seems to me is that you are suggesting that "diversity" of opinion is apart of what some people suggest the media ought to exhibit, and genuine diversity at that. It seems to be then that part of the complaint from many circles is that the media (news, editorial, opinion,etc., reportage)does not represent their particular line ofthinking or that the media is slanted against their ideological or personal viewpoints. But perhaps they are simply too focused in one direction. They perceive the "good" [favourable]or the "bad"[not favourable] coverage and nothing else in between is permissible or attracts their attention. Hence, only that which gets their attention gets them. Media proprietors on the other hand need to attract as many readers as they canso as to peddle thehype of their consumer penetrative largesseto their major clientele, namelyadvertisers. In business, this and associated revenues is really is what keeps theircoffersfull and afloat. In Newsprint, news is basically space-filler between theadvertising. To attract potential consumers, media headlines need to be buoyant, bizarre or bad news or generally a combination of all.The mundane, everyday les affaire doesn't sellmediabecause it does notattract the attention of media consumers. Or, ought the media be a clone of our leading women and men, say George Bush?One is informed that Mr Bush wants school kids inculcated with "right and wrong" by the government. Sounds very churchy! But at least two questions would be left hanging by this "goal" of committing government to the "instruction in right and wrong." Firstly, is there in fact real consensus about basic values in American culture today? Secondly, even if there is a clear set of values affirmed by a majority, is it a legitimate role of government, or the point of our discussion the media, to inculcate an alleged majority view in the face of strong opposition from a minority? How is the voice of minorities to be heard if the voice of the crowd drowns them out? As an aside question, you claim that the media is "Liberal" and biased,how then do you answer accusations that it is slanted favourably toward Israel which appears to emanate from a lot of voices, particularly from the vox populi of the Conspiracy fraternity? Dave. - Original Message - From: Zuukie To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- By now Dave, if you are any kind of researcher, should know that Barbara Morris was a writer on the corruption of the educational system here in the US. She wrote two books and had a newsletter for several years. Her material was excellent. When she attempted to expose the connection between the Carnegie Foundation and Soviet education system and how they impacted on the US educational system, her information was shunned by all of the major conservative organizations and their media spokesmen. After many effort-full years, at that point she dropped out of trying to inform others of what was going on, knowing that there was no real conservative movement. From what Ive seen over the past 20 years, her experience was not unique. Over time I have seen there have been many individuals who tried to break thru the wall of disinformation to reach the public, only to see themselves going against Big Brothers system of provision made for dissidents. Those new to what is occurring think all of this change agent stuff has just started with Bush, but refuse to understand it has been going on for a long time now. Idealistic individual liberals and idealistic individual conservatives are in the same boat, and the boat is sinking. -Original Message-From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of ZuukieSent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:56 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? Dave, Ill try to answer your question. I would protest against a conservative press also, as would many conservatives whose voices you never hear. In the last 20 plus years Ive seen a major change in who gets the shows and who gets on the shows, even at the local level. Twenty years ago there were a variety of guests on talk shows who represented the far left to the far right and callers could challenge the viewpoints. Now we are given hosts and told this is your conservative representative or your liberal representative, all of whom control the message. What we get from both sides is name ca
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- David, wrong time for your note. See the posting No News is Good News sent out today. Its about bad journalism. Ill try to answer your comments anyway. Its not about ideological or personal viewpoints. Its about factual information that any reporter could dig out. Ive always said that if a housewife in the Midwest can find the details of controversies, then whats to keep a reporter from doing the same. If the citizens of the US wanted to go in any particular political direction after getting concrete information, I wouldnt fight it because there is free will. What I am against is slanted information coming from what most people consider neutral sources such as radio, television, newspapers, and popular magazines. Its all about manipulation and there is no respect for the individual. There was an interesting comment in one of the books I found on the Soviet Union in the 80s. It was a book describing the culture there. It was just a neutral position book, but in regard to censorship in the Soviet Union, the comment was that there was so much information available that people didnt know what was missing. Thats whats happening here. Back when one could challenge a liberal on a radio talk show, someone who presented contrary information was told that since they found it on their own there was no censorship. The liberal who made the comment wouldnt respond to the fact that most of the people never bother to go past what the primary message of the media was. These people just trusted that they were getting the facts and if they were stupid enough to accept them, that was their problem. The first clue I had that I wasnt getting information was in the early 80s when I started researching on my own. The talking heads of the time were reporting that Humanism was just a bogeyman of the right. Any reporter could have picked up a copy of the Humanist Manifestos, looked in the Encyclopedia of Associations to see the list of Humanist organizations and read the Humanist magazine to see that the Humanist movement was a for real thing. The Aspen Institute for Humanistic Studies was a very powerful think tank, and many people knew that it existed as part of the Humanist movement. (Now its the Aspen Institute and the web page is vague compared with the information I picked up at the time. Wye Plantation is a part of the international operation but who bothers to know that. ) Then, being involved in school affairs, I saw that the newspaper reporters seemed to have made a deal with the school systems not to report any controversial matters parents brought up at school board meetings. In fact, the minutes of these meetings never reflected the concerns of the parents. I dont want to go into details, but major control was in operation. It went on from there. As I became more and more involved and did research on my own, I saw that the information getting thru was the message the liberal organizations were promoting. I saw individual after individual on the conservative side wiped out because the organizations reported as being conservative spokesmen were nothing but skeleton operations with no substance, organizations not supporting individual efforts but bypassing them, something any beginning reporter could have found out. Twenty years of seeing this over and over again does make an impact. Granted what Ive found has been the result of my personal efforts, but there are many people just like me. We are not united, but heaven help the country if someone comes forward and says they are the spokesmen for our concerns. I wouldnt trust that individual, but many would. This may be what is happening with Bush. As far as Israel is concerned, my feeling is that many non-Orthodox Jewish groups and leaders have thought that selling the Jewish vote to liberal organizational leadership would insure the safety of Jews and Israel. Knowing what I know and believe, thats not going to work in the long run. Is there an agenda that is being promoted? My guess is yes. There are liberals who think their voice is not being heard, but my feeling is that they are ahead of the line being promoted by the media which is a few steps behind their efforts. They are the shock troops breaking new ground which will be promoted by the media in time. Heaven help us all. ---Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of David Sutherland Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 2:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? Well Zuukie, I'm not so much a researcher of these undercurrents as I probably am a theatregoer. Whatit seems to me is that you are suggesting that diversity of opinion is apart of what some people suggest the media ought to exhibit, and genuine diversity at that. It seems to be then that part of the complaint from
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 11/29/2002 10:21:20 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What I am against is slanted information coming from what most people consider neutral sources such as radio, television, newspapers, and popular magazines. Same here! Too bad the Zionazis OWN the press! Bill. A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- By now Dave, if you are any kind of researcher, should know that Barbara Morris was a writer on the corruption of the educational system here in the US. She wrote two books and had a newsletter for several years. Her material was excellent. When she attempted to expose the connection between the Carnegie Foundation and Soviet education system and how they impacted on the US educational system, her information was shunned by all of the major conservative organizations and their media spokesmen. After many effort-full years, at that point she dropped out of trying to inform others of what was going on, knowing that there was no real conservative movement. From what Ive seen over the past 20 years, her experience was not unique. Over time I have seen there have been many individuals who tried to break thru the wall of disinformation to reach the public, only to see themselves going against Big Brothers system of provision made for dissidents. Those new to what is occurring think all of this change agent stuff has just started with Bush, but refuse to understand it has been going on for a long time now. Idealistic individual liberals and idealistic individual conservatives are in the same boat, and the boat is sinking. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Zuukie Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? Dave, Ill try to answer your question. I would protest against a conservative press also, as would many conservatives whose voices you never hear. In the last 20 plus years Ive seen a major change in who gets the shows and who gets on the shows, even at the local level. Twenty years ago there were a variety of guests on talk shows who represented the far left to the far right and callers could challenge the viewpoints. Now we are given hosts and told this is your conservative representative or your liberal representative, all of whom control the message. What we get from both sides is name calling and emotional pieces of information. So, I cant name conservatives whose names you would recognize that I would trust. At the local level, there are many of us who have researched organizations and individuals on our own, just to learn what is happening. Our voices have been silenced in many ways. So why do I identify more with the conservative side than the liberal one? Perhaps its because I learned more about what is happening from those who were labeled conservatives than I learned from the liberal side. Their literature was more informative than that coming from the side labeled liberal. Their information was in sync with what I saw happening when I started following information on my own rather than just listening to the media message. Other than the pro-life organizations who still fight a semi-public message, conservatives who have seen what Ive seen have been marginalized to the point where we know each other because of our outreach rather than because we follow some sort of conservative leadership. I dont deny that there are others who follow the conservative leadership, but its a phase that individuals go thru. Conservatives are as susceptible to those who are saying I feel your pain as anyone else. Everyone searches for a community in which they can be at home. When individuals run into organizations who send the message I know what you are talking about, follow me they follow these provision made for dissidents conservative leaders whether anti-Semitic, political, militia, religious, or economic conservatives. I cant give you a simple answer. Those who think I as do dont have websites or send out article after article. The only way you will understand what some of us are thinking is to keep researching on your own, going to meetings of various stripes, collecting literature from different sides. You are on your way with your knowledge that Charlotte I. exists. When you move on to Barbara Morris gathered information, youll go even further. Does this mean that I think that liberals dont have valuable information to share? No way. Parenti is good as is information from liberal sources on the Greens or on the Moonies. I trust people of good faith who want to keep learning. Thats the bottom line no matter whether they call themselves liberal or conservative. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of David Sutherland Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 12:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? Well fair enough then. But to give me an idea of what you would view as the Conservative alternative, could you give me a few names that I cold quickly chase up on the Net to help me understand where you
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- Well fair enough then. But to give me an idea of what you would view as the Conservative alternative, could you give me a few names that I cold quickly chase up on the Net to help me understand where you are coming from and in being given the same media coverage and power as the Libels, how a Conservative Press would report the issues? Say maybethree or four prominent names, or institutions that i could review and gauge what in America is the Conservative style of mind. --- Thanks! Dave. - Original Message - From: Zuukie To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- David, what good would come of trying to discuss the topic with you? The search engines can take readers interested in the topic to a large number of sites if they wish to learn facts from either side of the abortion argument. Anyone wishing to learn how information on the topic is manipulated can compare the information they will obtain from the press on the case regarding pro-life protesters and the abortion clinics which the Supreme Court is hearing in December with what is being said on the pro-life websites. One of these days if I get bored enough Ill put together a list of clichés used by the pro-choice side to diffuse discussion. -Original Message-From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of David SutherlandSent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:57 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? Zuukie, this sounds like the sort of thingsome say when they haven't really got anythingto say. That might be one reason many don't get conned into taking sides on at least that particular issue, because when questions are asked theproponents simply do not have anything intelligentto say. That aside, the post-door was left ajar for a "conservative" or whatever formulated opinion to get through and be aired by you. Instead, all we got was you slagging us off? Is this the alternative way to being "Liberal"? If the media is "Liberal," and one assumes you mean"mainstream media," perhaps it is for a reason, andone of which might be that the alternative just frightens the hell out of them, as well as the average citizenry. Besides, left void of the euphemistic mewlingabout the"Liberal media," the Conservative would have one less evilin their voodoo box to demonise. One surely wouldn't want that kind of potentially psychological trauma to occur, now would one? Dave. - Original Message - From: "Zuukie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:33 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- The two replies are proof of what I said when I said the liberal media does not carry information explaining the pro-life position. Only lack of knowledge could lead to such silly responses. The anti-abortion position has nothing to do with Jerry Falwell, the US conservative mindset, Christian Zionism, rebirth or any other such silly ideas. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Euphorian Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 5:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- 11/19/02 11:31:59 AM, David Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Secondly, Christian Zionists such as Jerry Falwell and others of his religious leaning form part of the US conservative mindset and claim that abortion is tantamount to murder and oft appeal to Old Testament laws as the basis for their various religio-political manifesto's. If conservatives such as these held the balance of political power, and given that they consider abortion murder, would they also have cause to execute (as per OT law) or imprison the women who have abortions? What about the need to have people be reborn into the faith? If they are killed, then that might be something laong the lines of an "aborted" attempt to reclaim these souls for "rebirth" and that might be murder, too. What's the old saw? Hate the sin and love the sinner? As I recall the writings, the Nazarene never intended for anyone to be anyone else than "saved". Can't save 'em if the Green Berets have left the sorting to the deity. AER A HREF=""http://www.ctrl.org/">http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussio
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- Dave, Ill try to answer your question. I would protest against a conservative press also, as would many conservatives whose voices you never hear. In the last 20 plus years Ive seen a major change in who gets the shows and who gets on the shows, even at the local level. Twenty years ago there were a variety of guests on talk shows who represented the far left to the far right and callers could challenge the viewpoints. Now we are given hosts and told this is your conservative representative or your liberal representative, all of whom control the message. What we get from both sides is name calling and emotional pieces of information. So, I cant name conservatives whose names you would recognize that I would trust. At the local level, there are many of us who have researched organizations and individuals on our own, just to learn what is happening. Our voices have been silenced in many ways. So why do I identify more with the conservative side than the liberal one? Perhaps its because I learned more about what is happening from those who were labeled conservatives than I learned from the liberal side. Their literature was more informative than that coming from the side labeled liberal. Their information was in sync with what I saw happening when I started following information on my own rather than just listening to the media message. Other than the pro-life organizations who still fight a semi-public message, conservatives who have seen what Ive seen have been marginalized to the point where we know each other because of our outreach rather than because we follow some sort of conservative leadership. I dont deny that there are others who follow the conservative leadership, but its a phase that individuals go thru. Conservatives are as susceptible to those who are saying I feel your pain as anyone else. Everyone searches for a community in which they can be at home. When individuals run into organizations who send the message I know what you are talking about, follow me they follow these provision made for dissidents conservative leaders whether anti-Semitic, political, militia, religious, or economic conservatives. I cant give you a simple answer. Those who think I as do dont have websites or send out article after article. The only way you will understand what some of us are thinking is to keep researching on your own, going to meetings of various stripes, collecting literature from different sides. You are on your way with your knowledge that Charlotte I. exists. When you move on to Barbara Morris gathered information, youll go even further. Does this mean that I think that liberals dont have valuable information to share? No way. Parenti is good as is information from liberal sources on the Greens or on the Moonies. I trust people of good faith who want to keep learning. Thats the bottom line no matter whether they call themselves liberal or conservative. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of David Sutherland Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 12:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? Well fair enough then. But to give me an idea of what you would view as the Conservative alternative, could you give me a few names that I cold quickly chase up on the Net to help me understand where you are coming from and in being given the same media coverage and power as the Libels, how a Conservative Press would report the issues? Say maybethree or four prominent names, or institutions that i could review and gauge what in America is the Conservative style of mind. --- Thanks! Dave. - Original Message - From: Zuukie To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:54 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- David, what good would come of trying to discuss the topic with you? The search engines can take readers interested in the topic to a large number of sites if they wish to learn facts from either side of the abortion argument. Anyone wishing to learn how information on the topic is manipulated can compare the information they will obtain from the press on the case regarding pro-life protesters and the abortion clinics which the Supreme Court is hearing in December with what is being said on the pro-life websites. One of these days if I get bored enough Ill put together a list of clichés used by the pro-choice side to diffuse discussion. A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance?not soap-boxing?please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis-
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- 11/20/02 4:58:27 PM, David Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you mean? The psychological burden is such in some that they are lured into a religious state because of emotional trauma and guilt placed on them by the shamanism of priestcraft? Dave. Close. It seems as though Fallwell and ilk have created for themselves an us vs them situation wherein they exclude many from the possibility of being saved. All non-believers are fair game for the revival tent. Yet, the top fundies aren't eager to go out and save those who who would be in the best positions to effect changes within their ranks. That is to say, Usama being converted would be able to neutralise the inter-religion warfare by dragging along his followers. But, if Shrub, a saved person, suggests Usama or Hussein dead or alive (preferably [to him] the former), then he is in effect creating a situation where the rebirth is ended before being allowed to come to term, i.e., aborted as in abortion. Now this supposes that anyone, Usama included, might be made to see the light according to the RelRight (oka chickenhawks). So, everyone has to be kept in a viable, potentially emerging state in order to NOT prevent the spiritual renaissance from happening. The psychological burden is the missionary's position. The un-harvested souls remain in a state of grace because they have not undergone the baptism of fire and brimstone. Which is another interesting perspective. The proselytisers lose brownie points because they have failed to sway the masses of the unannointed, uninitiated, uninspired. Killing the infidel as the missionary proselytiser conversionists' form of abortion. AER A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- Zuukie, this sounds like the sort of thingsome say when they haven't really got anythingto say. That might be one reason many don't get conned into taking sides on at least that particular issue, because when questions are asked theproponents simply do not have anything intelligentto say. That aside, the post-door was left ajar for a "conservative" or whatever formulated opinion to get through and be aired by you. Instead, all we got was you slagging us off? Is this the alternative way to being "Liberal"? If the media is "Liberal," and one assumes you mean"mainstream media," perhaps it is for a reason, andone of which might be that the alternative just frightens the hell out of them, as well as the average citizenry. Besides, left void of the euphemistic mewlingabout the"Liberal media," the Conservative would have one less evilin their voodoo box to demonise. One surely wouldn't want that kind of potentially psychological trauma to occur, now would one? Dave. - Original Message - From: "Zuukie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:33 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- The two replies are proof of what I said when I said the liberal media does not carry information explaining the pro-life position. Only lack of knowledge could lead to such silly responses. The anti-abortion position has nothing to do with Jerry Falwell, the US conservative mindset, Christian Zionism, rebirth or any other such silly ideas. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Euphorian Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 5:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- 11/19/02 11:31:59 AM, David Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Secondly, Christian Zionists such as Jerry Falwell and others of his religious leaning form part of the US conservative mindset and claim that abortion is tantamount to murder and oft appeal to Old Testament laws as the basis for their various religio-political manifesto's. If conservatives such as these held the balance of political power, and given that they consider abortion murder, would they also have cause to execute (as per OT law) or imprison the women who have abortions? What about the need to have people be reborn into the faith? If they are killed, then that might be something laong the lines of an "aborted" attempt to reclaim these souls for "rebirth" and that might be murder, too. What's the old saw? Hate the sin and love the sinner? As I recall the writings, the Nazarene never intended for anyone to be anyone else than "saved". Can't save 'em if the Green Berets have left the sorting to the deity. AER A HREF="'http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.orghttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="'http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives'>http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="'http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrlhttp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="'http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.orghttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message -From: "Euphorian" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 3:50 PMSubject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- 11/19/02 11:31:59 AM, David Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Secondly, Christian Zionists such as Jerry Falwell and others of his religious leaning form part of the US conservative mindset and claimthat abortion is tantamount to murder and oft appeal to Old Testament lawsas the basis for their various religio-political manifesto's. If conservatives such as these held the balance of political power, and given that they consider abortion murder, would they also have cause to execute (as per OT law) or imprison the women who have abortions? What about the need to have people be reborn into the faith? If they arekilled, then that might be something laong the lines of an "aborted" attempt to reclaimthese souls for "rebirth" and that might be murder, too. What's the old saw? Hate thesin and love the sinner? As I recall the writings, the Nazarene never intended for anyoneto be anyone else than "saved". Can't save 'em if the Green Berets have left the sorting tothe deity.What do you mean? The psychological burden is such in some that they are lured into a "religious state" because of emotional trauma and guilt placed on them by the shamanism of priestcraft? Dave. A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- -Caveat Lector- David, what good would come of trying to discuss the topic with you? The search engines can take readers interested in the topic to a large number of sites if they wish to learn facts from either side of the abortion argument. Anyone wishing to learn how information on the topic is manipulated can compare the information they will obtain from the press on the case regarding pro-life protesters and the abortion clinics which the Supreme Court is hearing in December with what is being said on the pro-life websites. One of these days if I get bored enough Ill put together a list of clichés used by the pro-choice side to diffuse discussion. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of David Sutherland Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? Zuukie, this sounds like the sort of thingsome say when they haven't really got anythingto say. That might be one reason many don't get conned into taking sides on at least that particular issue, because when questions are asked theproponents simply do not have anything intelligentto say. That aside, the post-door was left ajar for a conservative or whatever formulated opinion to get through and be aired by you. Instead, all we got was you slagging us off? Is this the alternative way to being Liberal? If the media is Liberal, and one assumes you meanmainstream media, perhaps it is for a reason, andone of which might be that the alternative just frightens the hell out of them, as well as the average citizenry. Besides, left void of the euphemistic mewlingabout theLiberal media, the Conservative would have one less evilin their voodoo box to demonise. One surely wouldn't want that kind of potentially psychological trauma to occur, now would one? Dave. - Original Message - From: Zuukie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:33 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- The two replies are proof of what I said when I said the liberal media does not carry information explaining the pro-life position. Only lack of knowledge could lead to such silly responses. The anti-abortion position has nothing to do with Jerry Falwell, the US conservative mindset, Christian Zionism, rebirth or any other such silly ideas. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Euphorian Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 5:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- 11/19/02 11:31:59 AM, David Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Secondly, Christian Zionists such as Jerry Falwell and others of his religious leaning form part of the US conservative mindset and claim that abortion is tantamount to murder and oft appeal to Old Testament laws as the basis for their various religio-political manifesto's. If conservatives such as these held the balance of political power, and given that they consider abortion murder, would they also have cause to execute (as per OT law) or imprison the women who have abortions? What about the need to have people be reborn into the faith? If they are killed, then that might be something laong the lines of an aborted attempt to reclaim these souls for rebirth and that might be murder, too. What's the old saw? Hate the sin and love the sinner? As I recall the writings, the Nazarene never intended for anyone to be anyone else than saved. Can't save 'em if the Green Berets have left the sorting to the deity. AER A HREF="">http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="">http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.htmlArchives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="">http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ctrl/A To
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- 11/19/02 11:31:59 AM, David Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Secondly, Christian Zionists such as Jerry Falwell and others of his religious leaning form part of the US conservative mindset and claim that abortion is tantamount to murder and oft appeal to Old Testament laws as the basis for their various religio-political manifesto's. If conservatives such as these held the balance of political power, and given that they consider abortion murder, would they also have cause to execute (as per OT law) or imprison the women who have abortions? What about the need to have people be reborn into the faith? If they are killed, then that might be something laong the lines of an aborted attempt to reclaim these souls for rebirth and that might be murder, too. What's the old saw? Hate the sin and love the sinner? As I recall the writings, the Nazarene never intended for anyone to be anyone else than saved. Can't save 'em if the Green Berets have left the sorting to the deity. AER A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ???
-Caveat Lector- The two replies are proof of what I said when I said the liberal media does not carry information explaining the pro-life position. Only lack of knowledge could lead to such silly responses. The anti-abortion position has nothing to do with Jerry Falwell, the US conservative mindset, Christian Zionism, rebirth or any other such silly ideas. -Original Message- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Euphorian Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 5:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] If the Media Were Liberal - Questions ... ??? -Caveat Lector- 11/19/02 11:31:59 AM, David Sutherland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Secondly, Christian Zionists such as Jerry Falwell and others of his religious leaning form part of the US conservative mindset and claim that abortion is tantamount to murder and oft appeal to Old Testament laws as the basis for their various religio-political manifesto's. If conservatives such as these held the balance of political power, and given that they consider abortion murder, would they also have cause to execute (as per OT law) or imprison the women who have abortions? What about the need to have people be reborn into the faith? If they are killed, then that might be something laong the lines of an aborted attempt to reclaim these souls for rebirth and that might be murder, too. What's the old saw? Hate the sin and love the sinner? As I recall the writings, the Nazarene never intended for anyone to be anyone else than saved. Can't save 'em if the Green Berets have left the sorting to the deity. AER A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
