CS: Legal-Soldier's suicide by cop

2001-02-11 Thread Jonathan

From:   Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Do the police have access to the growing array of "non-lethal"
products available to "SWAT" teams?

I'm thinking "Bean Bag rounds" CR/CS/CN liquid gas sticky foam
rounds, Rubber Bullets etc?

at least some constabularies have armed themselves with the HK right gun
from which they can fire plastic bags and CS ammunition.  Additionally,
many have the Remington 870 shotgun from which they can fire a wide
variety of ammunition including CS.

(Are "Bean Bag Rounds" legal for civilian use?)

I can't see any reason why they would not be legal, but I'm not aware of
any that are on issue.

--Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner

"Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel."
Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928


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CS: Legal-Soldier's suicide by cop

2001-02-10 Thread Earl W

From:   "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Police 'lawfully' killed man armed with air rifle

A FORMER soldier who was shot dead by police after repeatedly aiming an air
rifle at them was lawfully killed, an inquest decided yesterday.
Antony Kitts, 20, pointed the gun, resembling a 0.22 rifle, at unarmed
police officers on the outskirts of Falmouth, Cornwall. The inquest was told
that he also aimed the gun at two marksmen even after they shouted several
times: "Armed police, put your weapon down."

During the hearing at Truro both armed response officers were granted
anonymity by the coroner and gave their evidence from behind screens.
Officer A said that in the early hours of April 10 last year he was certain
Mr Kitts was carrying a sniper rifle. The officer, who broke down while
reading his statement, said he fired at Mr Kitts because he believed he was
about to be shot at.

Mr Kitts, of Falmouth, suffered massive injuries from a single soft-tipped
bullet. At the end of an eight-day inquest a jury of seven women and two men
took just under two hours to return a verdict of lawful killing. The foreman
said: "The deceased adopted an aggressive demeanour towards officers and
failed to respond to demands to put down his firearm."

As the verdict was given, Mr Kitts's mother, Diana, wept. After the inquest
she said she still had to live with the nightmare every day. She said:
"There are two sides to every story and all we have heard is the police
side. Antony is the only other person who can say what really happened that
night and he is dead."

Tina Salvidge, her solicitor, said questions remained unanswered and the
family was considering what further legal action could be taken. She said:
"We remain concerned at the apparent lack of police organisation in an
incident of this nature. We are still of the view that if the police had
exercised more caution in their approach to Antony, there would have been no
reason to shoot and he would have still been with his family today."

At a press conference after the inquest, Ian Latimer, Assistant Chief
Constable of Devon and Cornwall Police, said the verdict had vindicated the
actions of all the officers involved. He said: "We deeply regret the death
of Antony Kitts. We are convinced, however, that given the circumstances our
officers could not have acted differently."

He defended the use of the soft-tipped bullets, which do not pass through
the body and so cause more internal damage than a solid bullet. The
ammunition was used by other forces and complied with Home Office
guidelines.

==

Do the police have access to the growing array of "non-lethal"
products available to "SWAT" teams?

I'm thinking "Bean Bag rounds" CR/CS/CN liquid gas sticky foam
rounds, Rubber Bullets etc?

(Are "Bean Bag Rounds" legal for civilian use?)

The Special Forces have all these items - why not the police?

It is even written in (I think Steven Crawfords) an ex SAS members
Biography that when the Hungerford shootings were occurring 2 SAS
Range Rovers (of anti terrorist wing) were returning from training
in explosive access,  as usual has all their standard equipment
with them.

One of the team leaders (with his team) decided to visit a family
member (poss his mum) for tea  cakes at  a town close to
Hungerford, though upon getting closer to Hungerford they heard
on the Police radio that someone was on a shooting spree. They
decided to offer their help, they found the Police Officer in
charge (at this time 2 people had been shot). 

They offered their services, to "Gas  Bag" Michael Ryan, using a
mix of Grenade  shotgun launched Pepper, liquid CN Gas,  other
"Non-Lethal" substances techniques  equipment, to bring the
shooter down (obviously while wearing all their appropriate
ballistic armour!)

Note this equipment was not available in any other immediate
form to Hungerford Police. (according to the official reports)

Guess what the Police Officer in charge said of this generous
offer...NO THANK YOU!!!

The SAS left,  when they arrived back at their barracks, they
heard the actual body count, from what I've read they weren't
best pleased at the outcome.

You'd have thought that idiot who turned them down would have
at least asked them to lend medical support  to use the
Armoured SAS Range Rover

Note also that the Hungerford Police report said they could do
nothing WITHOUT AN ARMOURED VEHICLE for casualty evacuation,
obviously a Armoured SAS Range Rover is not armoured enough!!!

Can anyone think of any other "non Lethal's that the Police
should be using?
( Wasn't there a tv program about SWAT Non Lethals last year IIRC)

EW
--
Apparently the police don't have anything non-lethal except
for CS spray going by the recent article about ACPO wanting
other weapons for the police.

I'm not sure I believe this story about the SAS at Hungerford,
even if it's completely true it's not