CS: Legal-miniature rifle ranges
From: Peter H Jackson, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Peter Jackson knows what a miniature rifle round's >maximum dimensions are, but generally speaking .22 rimfire >is the only common round that fits that description. I would add the following to the good points made by Guy and others: 1. There's not much case law, because although the S 11(4) exemption is widely used, it has not been abused. 2. When claiming a statutory exemption, the burden of proof is usually reversed - i.e. you must be able to prove that you are entitled to use it. 3. John McKay's 1972 Home Office Working Party on the Control of Firearms considered that the S 11(4) exemption extends to "certain powerful military weapons" . However, Mckay's 200+ page report still remains unpublished, not least because it contains such a load of ill-informed rubbish. I certainly wouldn't wish to rely on it in a court of law. Rgds, Peter. www.jacksonrifles.com -- Bill Harriman told me about a TV interview he did with Lord McKay, in which McKay was moaning on about deactivated guns and how the police were totally opposed to them and how they were shooting people wielding them in crime (which is almost certainly untrue BTW, there is no recorded instance of a deactivated firearm being recovered after an armed crime according to the Home Office), and McKay produced a deactivated Model 10 and pointed out the sins of how it would be mistaken for a working gun. So Bill looked at it and commented: "Hmm, well it says 'Property of the Metropolitan Police' on the grip, so if the police are so worried why are they selling them off to gun dealers?" !!! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-miniature rifle ranges
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Peter Jackson knows what a miniature rifle round's > maximum dimensions are, but generally speaking .22 rimfire > is the only common round that fits that description. Are these dimensions actually Law? What are they Peter? Jonathan Laws -- Did I say round? I thought I was talking about the range specifications. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-miniature rifle ranges
From: "John Hurst", [EMAIL PROTECTED] >I wonder if anyone could help me on this subject. We wish to >set up a mini rifle range at our home office approved club in >order to host a few more shoots for non FAC holders. David, The NSRA were most helpful when one of my clubs decided to claim their right to the Section 11 exemption. The NSRA are able to provide a form which confirms the bona fides of an affiliated club which wishes to operate under the exemption. Note that all that the statute requires is "A person conducting or carrying on a miniature rifle range...may etc.". This is analogous to the fact that a FAC is merely a document which confirms that its holder is a "fit person". To quote Pepper v. Hart (again), Lord Oliver of Aylmerton observed that "A Statute is, after all, the formal and complete intimation to the citizen of a particular rule of law which he is enjoined, sometimes under penalty, to obey and by which he is both expected and entitled to regulate his conduct". A certain police inspector in a firearms licensing unit was not so helpful. When the club secretary courteously informed him about it he denied all knowledge of Section 11. Later, after consulting force solicitors, he stated that he found the clubs actions "sinister" because they enabled it to "evade police surveillance". I understand the conversation was recorded. I think that the Firearms Advisory Committee have looked at the gallery exemption and decided that it is not a problem. Can anyone confirm that. Regards, John Hurst. -- All the FCC have said is that the police have expressed concerns to them, there doesn't appear to be any huge problems at present but they haven't had time to look into it yet. The NSRA only sell manually-operated .22 rimfire rifles to miniature rifle ranges, in 1920 when the exemption was originally drafted .22 centrefires and .22 self-loaders were pretty rare so I think it is fair to say that the NSRA is simply following tradition and the exemption was probably drafted without thinking about .22 centrefires at least. The problem for shooters here is two-pronged, because if licensing for airguns becomes a reality then the use of them at miniature rifle ranges would be the only option - but if they're licensed too most of the pub and school ranges would probably close down. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-miniature rifle ranges
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED] My advice is to designate a set day each week or month for SOLE use of your range as a "Gallery range". Indeed better to lease that set day to an entirely new commercial enterprise run by perhaps yourself as an entirely separate person from the club. Then make sure that any person who comes, member or not, is treated equally. What you have to do is to be seen to be absolutely separate from any club activity. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-miniature rifle ranges
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Generally speaking the Gallery Club should have its own seprating legal entity and exclusive shooting days or times at a given range or venue. As a dealer, I would generally only sell equipment under Sec 11 exemption with the provision of a written purchase order, copy of the club's constitution and a club cheque for payment. The Club constitution is easy to draft HSBC have a good skeleton in their Clubs and Societies bank account leaflet. Banking facilites are genrally free to clubs from most banks. Such purchases being exempt, can be transacted by mail order but a notification of sale or transfer and acquisition is still required to be sent to the Police in the club's jursidiction. Peter Jackson knows what a miniature rifle round's maximum dimensions are, but generally speaking .22 rimfire is the only common round that fits that description. Guy Savage Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
