CS: Misc-police weapons
From: "E.J. Totty", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Steve, & Richard, In the matter of 'illegal weapons', allow me to comment: First, it is hideous that any nation would be a signatory to such an accord and proceed to employ any of those prohibited item to be used against its own citizens. We've discussed this once before on Cybershooters. Second, this whole idea was meant to be humanitarian. Well, what's going to happen when one of the waring parties decides to take advantage of the convention? Example: let's suppose for a moment that the Chinese Army decides to over run a nation. And, let's suppose the Chinese Army tells its soldiers not to assist its own wounded, but rather leave them to the enemy to care for. Now imagine the logistical nightmare of all those wounded soldiers of both sides being cared for by only one side. A wounded soldier is just as deadly as a non-wounded soldier: he's only slightly more pissed. Bullets developed by the NATO forces of late are relatively weak sisters to the ones of old. At least a 30.06 or a .308 cal would have the chance of not just wounding, but actually killing your enemy. The .223/5.56mm NATO is meant to only wound. The same goes for the 9mm pistol round, unless you happen to be up close and very unfriendly. I do believe that was the reason for the issue of the .45 cal. to US forces in the Philippines. They were, I believe using .38 cals. at the time. So, what is more heinous: intentionally wounding your enemy with a bullet that was designed to produce an intentionally debilitating and permanent injury -- but not death, or using articles banned from war against your own citizens? And worse yet? Using both of them against your own citizens. -- =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= Liberty: Live it . . . or lose it. =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= =*= ET -- Philosophy aside, 5.56mm and 9mm were designed to kill, and 5.56mm at ranges less than 200m puts a permanent cavity in ballistic gelatin that do not indicate merely "wounding" potential. I have read articles by Peter Kokalis and Chuck Karwan who personally compared 7.62mm and 5.56mm in combat, and the gruesome details of the comparison leave you in no doubt that 5.56mm is very lethal. 7.62mm is more penetrative, but dead is dead. 9mm FMJ is not in the same league obviously, but back when it was invented the entire objective was to kill the enemy. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-police weapons
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes indeed. Expanding bullets, that's easy and also CS Gas as the Geneva Gas Protocol prohibits the use, of course, of all gases in war...but from a "rabble rousing2 point of view it makes good "copy".. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-police weapons
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED] One intriguing aspect of this is would the police be allowed to use such weapons against Russian Spetsnatz paratroopers. I wonder if, by extension, one could use the European Human Rights Act to argue the point of JHP and JSP? -- No doubt someone will. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-police weapons
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ...but can any > fellow "Cybershooter" tell us what BOTH the police's two "illegal" items > are? > -- > CS gas and expanding bullets? > > Steve. But the Police aren't covered by these accords so they aren't illegal. Jonathan Laws -- True, but it is intriguing nonetheless. What makes me laugh is that if they're going to do it, why not do it right, i.e. use JHPs instead of JSPs and use OC instead of CS? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-police weapons
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably correct - CS gas/OC spray and expanding bullets are both controlled by the Hague Conventions on the conduct of war. However, I doubt thermobaric weapons are or would be controlled by the conventions as their methodology of use is essentially the same as any large artillery shell or aerial bomb. Its the tactical use of such weapons agains cities and their civilian populations that might be considered a war crime. Regards Jerry Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-police weapons
From: "Hugh Bellars", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please let's stop recirculating this urban myth. Both the Geneva Convention and the Hague Accords apply only to international warfare between nations and 'domestic problems' were specifically exempted from both sets of documents. There is nothing illegal under international law about the Police using soft nosed bullets or CS sprays. With respect to UK law, under Section 54 of the Firearms Acts, Crown Servants like the Army, MOD and Police do not require firearms certificates if they possess firearms or other prohibited weapons in connection with their official duties. On what basis do you also suggest that fuel/air explosives are illegal for the Army? I fail to see how they differ fundamentally from other military high explosive devices. I find the media fuss about some military weapons to be fairly perplexing when you compare them with the horrific injuries that can be caused by common or garden mortar bombs or artillery shells. Hugh Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
