Re: Is it free to use

[Andrew DeFaria]

Bobby McNulty wrote:
Personally, I'm bored with the free verses copyrighted material.
Then why are you here (I mean in this thread)?
GPL means you should include your source code with your binary code. 
Simple. Redhat does it, Mandrake does it, Cygnus does it. Cygwin's 
sources are included in the download section. Next time, think before 
you speak.
Contrary to your opinion I did think before I spoke! I don't think the 
people who would use my application would want, know, care about or 
understand the source and I didn't want to go through the additional 
effort to make them available, place proper attribution in the sources 
and require them to download an install Cygwin (if I were to use 
cygwin1.dll).
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Re: Is it free to use

[Bobby McNulty]

Andrew DeFaria wrote:
Christopher Faylor wrote:
I also have to wonder how, as a long time reader of this list, you 
could *possibly* have missed the tedious discussion on this point 
that crops up on an almost weekly basis.

I have to wonder why you think just because you may or may not talk 
about it ever so often that I would spend my time reading that 
discussion faithfully every week. But to answer your (implied) 
question: consider the possibility that I just so happened to have not 
been interested in the topic until now (then let your imagination fly)

:-)
Personally, I'm bored with the free verses copyrighted material.
GPL means you should include your source code with your binary code. Simple.
Redhat does it, Mandrake does it, Cygnus does it.
Cygwin's sources are included in the download section.
Next time, think before you speak.

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Re: Is it free to use

[Andrew DeFaria]

Christopher Faylor wrote:
I also have to wonder how, as a long time reader of this list, you 
could *possibly* have missed the tedious discussion on this point that 
crops up on an almost weekly basis.
I have to wonder why you think just because you may or may not talk 
about it ever so often that I would spend my time reading that 
discussion faithfully every week. But to answer your (implied) question: 
consider the possibility that I just so happened to have not been 
interested in the topic until now (then let your imagination fly)

:-)
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Re: Is it free to use

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 12:32:17AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>Brian Dessent wrote:
>
>>The part that causes it to become GPL'd is the linking to cygwin1.dll, 
>>not the fact that Cygwin's gcc is used. If you use Cygwin's gcc in 
>>mingw mode then your program does not need cygwin1.dll and the program 
>>may be released under any license you choose, assuming there are no 
>>other GPL libraries to which you link. 
>
>That was my assumption. The parts I was a little skeptical about was: 1) 
>whether using mingw was also GPL

In that case you should be checking with the mingw web page.

I also have to wonder how, as a long time reader of this list, you could
*possibly* have missed the tedious discussion on this point that crops up
on an almost weekly basis.

cgf

(Now someone will follow up with a clarifying thread saying something like:

"Good point but what cgf meant by "weekly basis" is that people talk
about this every seven days."
)

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Re: Is it free to use

[Andrew DeFaria]

Brian Dessent wrote:
The part that causes it to become GPL'd is the linking to cygwin1.dll, 
not the fact that Cygwin's gcc is used. If you use Cygwin's gcc in 
mingw mode then your program does not need cygwin1.dll and the program 
may be released under any license you choose, assuming there are no 
other GPL libraries to which you link. 
That was my assumption. The parts I was a little skeptical about was: 1) 
whether using mingw was also GPL and 2) whether I created an app that 
linked in another library that Cygwin provides.

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to understand.

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Re: Is it free to use

[Brian Dessent]

Andrew DeFaria wrote:

> Christopher Faylor wrote:
> 
> > This means that if you are developing software for eventual release,
> > you must also make the source code available when you make binaries
> > available.
> 
> If I develop an app and do not wish to have a requirement to install
> Cygwin I would use MingW, right? In that case is my app still under GPL
> just because I used Cygwin's gcc to compile and link the resulting
> executable that will have no more dependencies on Cygwin? (Just curious).

The part that causes it to become GPL'd is the linking to cygwin1.dll,
not the fact that Cygwin's gcc is used.  If you use Cygwin's gcc in
mingw mode then your program does not need cygwin1.dll and the program
may be released under any license you choose, assuming there are no
other GPL libraries to which you link.  cgf meant that by default (with
no command line options to the contrary) Cygwin's gcc creates a binary
linked against the Cygwin dll.

Brian

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Re: Is it free to use

[Brian Ford]

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:35:50AM -0700, Brian Dessent wrote:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> We are using Linux and UNIX environment to develop our own applications.
> >> By installing the Cygwin/X X Server, Xlib and Xclients etc., our developers
> >> can
> >> 1. use our own Windows base PC to emulate a UNIX-like environment to do the
> >> development;
> >> 2. use the X server to connect to X windows of Linux and AIX;
> >> 3. use the Secure Shell (ssh) to connect to AIX servers;
> >> 4. use powerful scripts of Unix to automate Windows workstation.
> >>
> >> We shall use the cygwin in around thirty Window based PC.
> >>
> >> Would like to clarify that will be free of charge.
> >
> >Have your company's lawyers read the GNU Public License and answer that
> >for you.  It's quite well explained exactly what the GPL allows and
> >doesn't allow on  and
> >.  This is not a legal advice
> >mailing list, and answering legal questions is not the purpose of this
> >list.
>
> Actually, the licensing information is here:
>
> http://cygwin.com/license.html
>
> That is the place to start.

I really hate to step into any messy legal conversation, but...

All of the above is excellent advise.

> The bottom line is that if you develop using cygwin's gcc your
> applications are GPLed when you release them.  This means that if you
> are developing software for eventual release, you must also make the
> source code available when you make binaries available.

I think you might have misunderstood what the OP described, and your
wording above may be misleading.

>From the limited description given, it sounds as if 1 was meant to be a
Linux emuation environment for in-house development.  If the only product
ever released is a Linux one, not a Cygwin/Windows one, there is no
problem.

If 2, 3, and 4 are only done in-house and not packaged as part of a
product, there is no problem.  Even if they are packaged as part of a
product, as long as the exact sources used to build the binaries are
provided (or a written offer for such valid for three years yada, yada,
yada...), there is still no problem.

> If you want other arranagements then you do have to pay for that.
>
> But, the lawyer advice is still sound.  You really should check this out
> thoroughly if you are going to be releasing software eventually.

Agreed!

-- 
Brian Ford
Senior Realtime Software Engineer
VITAL - Visual Simulation Systems
FlightSafety International
the best safety device in any aircraft is a well-trained pilot...

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RE: Is it free to use

[Larry Hall]

At 10:10 AM 9/9/2004, Reid Thompson wrote:
>that's a dead url -- http://cygwin.com/licensing.html


WFFM.


>Christopher Faylor wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:35:50AM -0700, Brian Dessent wrote:
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> 
 We are using Linux and UNIX environment to develop our own
 applications. By installing the Cygwin/X X Server, Xlib and Xclients
 etc., our developers can 1. use our own Windows base PC to emulate a
 UNIX-like environment to do the development;
 2. use the X server to connect to X windows of Linux and AIX;
 3. use the Secure Shell (ssh) to connect to AIX servers;
 4. use powerful scripts of Unix to automate Windows workstation.
 
 We shall use the cygwin in around thirty Window based PC.
 
 Would like to clarify that will be free of charge.
>>> 
>>> Have your company's lawyers read the GNU Public License and answer
>>> that for you.  It's quite well explained exactly what the GPL allows
>>> and doesn't allow on  and
>>> .  This is not a legal
>>> advice mailing list, and answering legal questions is not the
>>> purpose of this list.
>> 
>> Actually, the licensing information is here:
>> 
>http://cygwin.com/license.html
>
>That is the place to start.
>
>The bottom line is that if you develop using cygwin's gcc your
>applications are GPLed when you release them.  This means that if you
>are developing software for eventual release, you must also make the
>source code available when you make binaries available.   
>
>If you want other arranagements then you do have to pay for that.
>
>But, the lawyer advice is still sound.  You really should check this
>out thoroughly if you are going to be releasing software eventually. 
>
>cgf

--
Larry Hall  http://www.rfk.com
RFK Partners, Inc.  (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office
838 Washington Street   (508) 893-9889 - FAX
Holliston, MA 01746 


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Re: Is it free to use

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:10:33AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote:
>Christopher Faylor wrote:
>
>>This means that if you are developing software for eventual release, 
>>you must also make the source code available when you make binaries 
>>available.
>
>If I develop an app and do not wish to have a requirement to install 
>Cygwin I would use MingW, right?

If you do not link your app with a GPLed library and your app is not
GPLed itself, it does not become GPLed by the act of compiling either
on Cygwin or Linux or HP/UX or...

cgf

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Re: Is it free to use

[Andrew DeFaria]

Christopher Faylor wrote:
This means that if you are developing software for eventual release, 
you must also make the source code available when you make binaries 
available.
If I develop an app and do not wish to have a requirement to install 
Cygwin I would use MingW, right? In that case is my app still under GPL 
just because I used Cygwin's gcc to compile and link the resulting 
executable that will have no more dependencies on Cygwin? (Just curious).

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RE: Is it free to use

[Reid Thompson]

that's a dead url -- http://cygwin.com/licensing.html
Christopher Faylor wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:35:50AM -0700, Brian Dessent wrote:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> We are using Linux and UNIX environment to develop our own
>>> applications. By installing the Cygwin/X X Server, Xlib and Xclients
>>> etc., our developers can 1. use our own Windows base PC to emulate a
>>> UNIX-like environment to do the development;
>>> 2. use the X server to connect to X windows of Linux and AIX;
>>> 3. use the Secure Shell (ssh) to connect to AIX servers;
>>> 4. use powerful scripts of Unix to automate Windows workstation.
>>> 
>>> We shall use the cygwin in around thirty Window based PC.
>>> 
>>> Would like to clarify that will be free of charge.
>> 
>> Have your company's lawyers read the GNU Public License and answer
>> that for you.  It's quite well explained exactly what the GPL allows
>> and doesn't allow on  and
>> .  This is not a legal
>> advice mailing list, and answering legal questions is not the
>> purpose of this list.
> 
> Actually, the licensing information is here:
> 
http://cygwin.com/license.html

That is the place to start.

The bottom line is that if you develop using cygwin's gcc your
applications are GPLed when you release them.  This means that if you
are developing software for eventual release, you must also make the
source code available when you make binaries available.   

If you want other arranagements then you do have to pay for that.

But, the lawyer advice is still sound.  You really should check this
out thoroughly if you are going to be releasing software eventually. 

cgf

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reid

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Re: Is it free to use

[Christopher Faylor]

On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:35:50AM -0700, Brian Dessent wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> We are using Linux and UNIX environment to develop our own applications.
>> By installing the Cygwin/X X Server, Xlib and Xclients etc., our developers
>> can
>> 1. use our own Windows base PC to emulate a UNIX-like environment to do the
>> development;
>> 2. use the X server to connect to X windows of Linux and AIX;
>> 3. use the Secure Shell (ssh) to connect to AIX servers;
>> 4. use powerful scripts of Unix to automate Windows workstation.
>> 
>> We shall use the cygwin in around thirty Window based PC.
>> 
>> Would like to clarify that will be free of charge.
>
>Have your company's lawyers read the GNU Public License and answer that
>for you.  It's quite well explained exactly what the GPL allows and
>doesn't allow on  and
>.  This is not a legal advice
>mailing list, and answering legal questions is not the purpose of this
>list.

Actually, the licensing information is here:

http://cygwin.com/license.html

That is the place to start.

The bottom line is that if you develop using cygwin's gcc your applications
are GPLed when you release them.  This means that if you are developing software
for eventual release, you must also make the source code available when you
make binaries available.

If you want other arranagements then you do have to pay for that.

But, the lawyer advice is still sound.  You really should check this out
thoroughly if you are going to be releasing software eventually.

cgf

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Re: Is it free to use

[Brian Dessent]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> We are using Linux and UNIX environment to develop our own applications.
> By installing the Cygwin/X X Server, Xlib and Xclients etc., our developers
> can
> 1. use our own Windows base PC to emulate a UNIX-like environment to do the
> development;
> 2. use the X server to connect to X windows of Linux and AIX;
> 3. use the Secure Shell (ssh) to connect to AIX servers;
> 4. use powerful scripts of Unix to automate Windows workstation.
> 
> We shall use the cygwin in around thirty Window based PC.
> 
> Would like to clarify that will be free of charge.

Have your company's lawyers read the GNU Public License and answer that
for you.  It's quite well explained exactly what the GPL allows and
doesn't allow on  and
.  This is not a legal advice
mailing list, and answering legal questions is not the purpose of this
list.

Brian

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Is it free to use

[Alain_SK_Yip]

To whom it may concern,

We are using Linux and UNIX environment to develop our own applications.
By installing the Cygwin/X X Server, Xlib and Xclients etc., our developers
can
1. use our own Windows base PC to emulate a UNIX-like environment to do the
development;
2. use the X server to connect to X windows of Linux and AIX;
3. use the Secure Shell (ssh) to connect to AIX servers;
4. use powerful scripts of Unix to automate Windows workstation.

We shall use the cygwin in around thirty Window based PC.

Would like to clarify that will be free of charge.

Best regards,
Alain Yip





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