Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-18 Thread Angel Tsankov

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Angel Tsankov wrote:


- Original Message -
From: Angel Tsankov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of 
cygwin-style one?


 - Original Message -
 From: Brian Dessent [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: cygwin mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:00 PM
 Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of 
 cygwin-style one?


http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#PCYMTNQREAIYR.  Let's not feed the 
spammers.
Thanks.  Incidentally, what kind of mailer quotes full headers like 
this?



  Angel Tsankov wrote:
 
   I have this problem, 'cause I use a windows build of make 
   3.81beta3

   and it does not recognize cygwin style paths.
   The latest cygwin build of make is 3.80, which has some bugs, 
   and I

   cannot use it.
 
  I think it would be more productive for you to get Cygwin make 
  working
  than to try to jerry-rig a windows make into a posix 
  environment. If
  you are running into a specific bug in the current packaged 
  version that
  is fixed upstream, then you should document it here and the 
  Cygwin

  package maintainer might release an updated package.

 Well, how do I document the bug?

OK, here's something like a test case. Since a couple of my 
previous attempts
to post a reply with a zip file attachment were unsuccessful, I've 
put the

test case here:
http://debian.fmi.uni-sofia.bg/~angel/test_case_make_3.80.zip


To summarize, for those who'd rather not download the full zip:

 BEGIN makefile 
GetAllFiles = \
$(eval AllFiles := $(wildcard $(addsuffix /*,$(strip $(1) \
$(AllFiles) \
$(if $(strip $(AllFiles)),$(call GetAllFiles,$(AllFiles)))

AllFiles := $(call GetAllFiles,Source)

all:
@echo $(AllFiles)
- END makefile -

The Source directory contains 2 files, File1.h and File2.h.

The result I get when running (the cygwin version of) make on my 
system is:

Source/File1.h Source/File2.h h

And the expected result is:
Source/File1.h Source/File2.h


There are a bunch of things wrong with the code above (in 
particular, the
variable AllFiles is overridden), but it does look like a genuine 
make bug

(in the expansion of a $(call) function).


Could you point out other wrong things with the code above so that I 
try to avoid them in the future?


Regards,
Angel Tsankov
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



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Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-18 Thread Angel Tsankov


- Original Message - 
From: Igor Pechtchanski [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Angel Tsankov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: cygwin@cygwin.com
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of 
cygwin-style one?




On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Angel Tsankov wrote:


 On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Angel Tsankov wrote:

  - Original Message -
  From: Angel Tsankov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:11 PM
  Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of 
  cygwin-style

  one?
 
   - Original Message -
   From: Brian Dessent [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: cygwin mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:00 PM
   Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of 
  cygwin-style one?

 http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#PCYMTNQREAIYR.  Let's not feed the 
 spammers.
 Thanks.  Incidentally, what kind of mailer quotes full headers 
 like this?


Angel Tsankov wrote:
   
 I have this problem, 'cause I use a windows build of make
 3.81beta3 and it does not recognize cygwin style paths. 
 The
 latest cygwin build of make is 3.80, which has some bugs, 
 and

 I cannot use it.
   
I think it would be more productive for you to get Cygwin 
make
working than to try to jerry-rig a windows make into a 
posix

environment.  If you are running into a specific bug in the
current packaged version that is fixed upstream, then you 
should
document it here and the Cygwin package maintainer might 
release

an updated package.
  
   Well, how do I document the bug?
 
  OK, here's something like a test case. Since a couple of my 
  previous

  attempts to post a reply with a zip file attachment were
  unsuccessful, I've put the test case here:
  http://debian.fmi.uni-sofia.bg/~angel/test_case_make_3.80.zip

 To summarize, for those who'd rather not download the full zip:

  BEGIN makefile 
 GetAllFiles = \
 $(eval AllFiles := $(wildcard $(addsuffix /*,$(strip $(1) \
 $(AllFiles) \
 $(if $(strip $(AllFiles)),$(call GetAllFiles,$(AllFiles)))

 AllFiles := $(call GetAllFiles,Source)

 all:
 @echo $(AllFiles)
 - END makefile -

 The Source directory contains 2 files, File1.h and File2.h.

  The result I get when running (the cygwin version of) make on 
  my

  system is: Source/File1.h Source/File2.h h
 
  And the expected result is:
  Source/File1.h Source/File2.h

 There are a bunch of things wrong with the code above (in 
 particular,
 the variable AllFiles is overridden), but it does look like a 
 genuine

 make bug (in the expansion of a $(call) function).

Could you point out other wrong things with the code above so that 
I try

to avoid them in the future?


Well, it's not as bad as it sounded -- it's a rather small bunch,
actually.  :-)

As I understand it, you're trying to implement a recursive directory
search (akin to Ant's ** wildcard).  Try as I might, I couldn't come 
up
with a clearer way of doing this, so I guess what you have is ok. 
My only
gripe is that the AllFiles variable is going to be clobbered, so if 
you

have

GetAllFiles = \
 $(eval AllFiles := $(wildcard $(addsuffix /*,$(strip $(1) \
 $(AllFiles) \
 $(if $(strip $(AllFiles)),$(call GetAllFiles,$(AllFiles)))

AllFiles := $(call GetAllFiles,Source)
AllOtherFiles := $(call GetAllFiles,Includes)

You will be surprised afterwards when looking at the value of
$(AllFiles)...

You could rewrite it as

GetAllFiles = \
 $(eval $(0)_123 := $(wildcard $(addsuffix /*,$(strip $(1) \
 $($(0)_123) \
 $(if $(strip $($(0)_123)),$(call GetAllFiles,$($(0)_123)))

to avoid name clashes...

BTW, the workaround I proposed (i.e., $(call GetAllFiles,Source 
makefile))

doesn't always work.


Unfortunately, you are right. I decided to use recursively expanded 
variables till next release despite my striving for efficiency.



I think you may just have to find the right number
of extra spaces in variable assignments...


Well, I could not find that number - it seemed to depend on the number 
of file names in the list and I did not investigate it any further so 
I'm not quite sure if this exactly was the case.



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Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-18 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Angel Tsankov wrote:

 - Original Message -
 From: Igor Pechtchanski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Angel Tsankov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Umm, again, http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#PCYMTNQREAIYR...

  On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Angel Tsankov wrote:
 
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Angel Tsankov wrote:
   
 - Original Message -
 From: Angel Tsankov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:11 PM
 Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of 
 cygwin-style one?

  - Original Message -
  From: Brian Dessent [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: cygwin mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:00 PM
  Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of 
  cygwin-style one?
   
http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#PCYMTNQREAIYR.  Let's not feed the
spammers.  Thanks.  Incidentally, what kind of mailer quotes full
headers like this?
   
   Angel Tsankov wrote:
  
I have this problem, 'cause I use a windows build of make
3.81beta3 and it does not recognize cygwin style paths.  The
latest cygwin build of make is 3.80, which has some bugs, and
I cannot use it.
  
   I think it would be more productive for you to get Cygwin
   make working than to try to jerry-rig a windows make into a
   posix environment.  If you are running into a specific bug
   in the current packaged version that is fixed upstream, then
   you should document it here and the Cygwin package
   maintainer might release an updated package.
 
  Well, how do I document the bug?

 OK, here's something like a test case. Since a couple of my
 previous attempts to post a reply with a zip file attachment
 were unsuccessful, I've put the test case here:
 http://debian.fmi.uni-sofia.bg/~angel/test_case_make_3.80.zip
   
To summarize, for those who'd rather not download the full zip:
   
 BEGIN makefile 
GetAllFiles = \
$(eval AllFiles := $(wildcard $(addsuffix /*,$(strip $(1) \
$(AllFiles) \
$(if $(strip $(AllFiles)),$(call GetAllFiles,$(AllFiles)))
   
AllFiles := $(call GetAllFiles,Source)
   
all:
@echo $(AllFiles)
- END makefile -
   
The Source directory contains 2 files, File1.h and File2.h.
   
 The result I get when running (the cygwin version of) make on my
 system is: Source/File1.h Source/File2.h h

 And the expected result is:
 Source/File1.h Source/File2.h
   
There are a bunch of things wrong with the code above (in
particular, the variable AllFiles is overridden), but it does look
like a genuine make bug (in the expansion of a $(call) function).
  
   Could you point out other wrong things with the code above so that I try
   to avoid them in the future?
 
  Well, it's not as bad as it sounded -- it's a rather small bunch,
  actually.  :-)
 
  As I understand it, you're trying to implement a recursive directory
  search (akin to Ant's ** wildcard).  Try as I might, I couldn't come
  up with a clearer way of doing this, so I guess what you have is ok.
  My only gripe is that the AllFiles variable is going to be clobbered,
  so if you have
 
  GetAllFiles = \
   $(eval AllFiles := $(wildcard $(addsuffix /*,$(strip $(1) \
   $(AllFiles) \
   $(if $(strip $(AllFiles)),$(call GetAllFiles,$(AllFiles)))
 
  AllFiles := $(call GetAllFiles,Source)
  AllOtherFiles := $(call GetAllFiles,Includes)
 
  You will be surprised afterwards when looking at the value of
  $(AllFiles)...
 
  You could rewrite it as
 
  GetAllFiles = \
   $(eval $(0)_123 := $(wildcard $(addsuffix /*,$(strip $(1) \
   $($(0)_123) \
   $(if $(strip $($(0)_123)),$(call GetAllFiles,$($(0)_123)))
 
  to avoid name clashes...
 
  BTW, the workaround I proposed (i.e., $(call GetAllFiles,Source
  makefile)) doesn't always work.

 Unfortunately, you are right. I decided to use recursively expanded
 variables till next release despite my striving for efficiency.

  I think you may just have to find the right number of extra spaces in
  variable assignments...

 Well, I could not find that number - it seemed to depend on the number
 of file names in the list and I did not investigate it any further so
 I'm not quite sure if this exactly was the case.

Another thing you could try is run the final result of $(call
GetAllFiles,...) through $(wildcard ...) -- all non-existent files will be
eliminated.  Inefficient, I know, but safe.
Igor
-- 
http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
  |\  _,,,---,,_[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'-.  ;-;;,_[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'   Igor Pechtchanski, Ph.D.
'---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

If there's any real truth it's that the entire

May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-16 Thread Angel Tsankov
Is there any way I can force the cygwin build of g++ to output folders 
using windows style (e.g. c:\folder\file) instead of cygwin style 
(/cygdrive/c/folder/file) when writing dependency files (-MM option)?


I have this problem, 'cause I use a windows build of make 3.81beta3 
and it does not recognize cygwin style paths.
The latest cygwin build of make is 3.80, which has some bugs, and I 
cannot use it.


Angel Tsankov
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



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Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-16 Thread Brian Dessent
Angel Tsankov wrote:

 Is there any way I can force the cygwin build of g++ to output folders
 using windows style (e.g. c:\folder\file) instead of cygwin style
 (/cygdrive/c/folder/file) when writing dependency files (-MM option)?

No, there's no way to do that.  You could probably come up with a perl
command that would filter the files through cygpath to convert the
paths, though.

 I have this problem, 'cause I use a windows build of make 3.81beta3
 and it does not recognize cygwin style paths.
 The latest cygwin build of make is 3.80, which has some bugs, and I
 cannot use it.

I think it would be more productive for you to get Cygwin make working
than to try to jerry-rig a windows make into a posix environment.  If
you are running into a specific bug in the current packaged version that
is fixed upstream, then you should document it here and the Cygwin
package maintainer might release an updated package.

Brian

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Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-16 Thread Angel Tsankov
- Original Message - 
From: Brian Dessent [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: cygwin mailing list cygwin@cygwin.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of 
cygwin-style one?




Angel Tsankov wrote:

Is there any way I can force the cygwin build of g++ to output 
folders

using windows style (e.g. c:\folder\file) instead of cygwin style
(/cygdrive/c/folder/file) when writing dependency files (-MM 
option)?


No, there's no way to do that.  You could probably come up with a 
perl

command that would filter the files through cygpath to convert the
paths, though.


I have this problem, 'cause I use a windows build of make 3.81beta3
and it does not recognize cygwin style paths.
The latest cygwin build of make is 3.80, which has some bugs, and I
cannot use it.


I think it would be more productive for you to get Cygwin make 
working
than to try to jerry-rig a windows make into a posix environment. 
If
you are running into a specific bug in the current packaged version 
that

is fixed upstream, then you should document it here and the Cygwin
package maintainer might release an updated package.


Well, how do I document the bug?

Angel Tsankov
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Brian

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Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-16 Thread Brian Dessent
Angel Tsankov wrote:

 Well, how do I document the bug?

Start here:

  Problem reports:   http://cygwin.com/problems.html

Post a concise explanation of what happens, what was expected to happen,
and what did not happen.  Include a simple testcase if possible.

Brian

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Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-16 Thread Angel Tsankov
- Original Message - 
From: Angel Tsankov [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: cygwin@cygwin.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of 
cygwin-style one?



- Original Message - 
From: Brian Dessent [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: cygwin mailing list cygwin@cygwin.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of 
cygwin-style one?




Angel Tsankov wrote:

Is there any way I can force the cygwin build of g++ to output 
folders

using windows style (e.g. c:\folder\file) instead of cygwin style
(/cygdrive/c/folder/file) when writing dependency files (-MM 
option)?


No, there's no way to do that.  You could probably come up with a 
perl

command that would filter the files through cygpath to convert the
paths, though.

I have this problem, 'cause I use a windows build of make 
3.81beta3

and it does not recognize cygwin style paths.
The latest cygwin build of make is 3.80, which has some bugs, and 
I

cannot use it.


I think it would be more productive for you to get Cygwin make 
working
than to try to jerry-rig a windows make into a posix environment. 
If
you are running into a specific bug in the current packaged version 
that

is fixed upstream, then you should document it here and the Cygwin
package maintainer might release an updated package.


Well, how do I document the bug?



OK, here's something like a test case. Since a couple of my previous 
attempts to post a reply with a zip file attachment were unsuccessful, 
I've put the test case here:

http://debian.fmi.uni-sofia.bg/~angel/test_case_make_3.80.zip

The result I get when running (the cygwin version of) make on my 
system is:

Source/File1.h Source/File2.h h

And the expected result is:
Source/File1.h Source/File2.h

Result of running 'make --version':
GNU Make 3.80
Copyright (C) 2002  Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

It is a very strange problem. A couple of weeks ago I started a thread 
about the exact same problem on the make-w32 mailing list, assuming it 
had something to do with long file names. The thread is located here:


http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/make-w32/2005-07/msg00011.html

As one can see, this problem has been fixed. Unfortunately, no newer 
version of make has been release so far, except for betas, the latest 
one being is 3.81beta3. The source code of the windows version of 
3.81beta3 is available at

ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/make/

HTH
Angel Tsankov
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-16 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Angel Tsankov wrote:

 - Original Message -
 From: Angel Tsankov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:11 PM
 Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

  - Original Message -
  From: Brian Dessent [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: cygwin mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:00 PM
  Subject: Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#PCYMTNQREAIYR.  Let's not feed the spammers.
Thanks.  Incidentally, what kind of mailer quotes full headers like this?

   Angel Tsankov wrote:
  
I have this problem, 'cause I use a windows build of make 3.81beta3
and it does not recognize cygwin style paths.
The latest cygwin build of make is 3.80, which has some bugs, and I
cannot use it.
  
   I think it would be more productive for you to get Cygwin make working
   than to try to jerry-rig a windows make into a posix environment. If
   you are running into a specific bug in the current packaged version that
   is fixed upstream, then you should document it here and the Cygwin
   package maintainer might release an updated package.
 
  Well, how do I document the bug?

 OK, here's something like a test case. Since a couple of my previous attempts
 to post a reply with a zip file attachment were unsuccessful, I've put the
 test case here:
 http://debian.fmi.uni-sofia.bg/~angel/test_case_make_3.80.zip

To summarize, for those who'd rather not download the full zip:

 BEGIN makefile 
GetAllFiles = \
$(eval AllFiles := $(wildcard $(addsuffix /*,$(strip $(1) \
$(AllFiles) \
$(if $(strip $(AllFiles)),$(call GetAllFiles,$(AllFiles)))

AllFiles := $(call GetAllFiles,Source)

all:
@echo $(AllFiles)
- END makefile -

The Source directory contains 2 files, File1.h and File2.h.

 The result I get when running (the cygwin version of) make on my system is:
 Source/File1.h Source/File2.h h

 And the expected result is:
 Source/File1.h Source/File2.h

There are a bunch of things wrong with the code above (in particular, the
variable AllFiles is overridden), but it does look like a genuine make bug
(in the expansion of a $(call) function).  Adding some trace commands
shows that the function invocation itself produces the right result, and
the corruption happens on variable assignment (affected by the number of
whitespace in the assignment line).  Simply invoking @echo $(call
GetAllFiles,Source) as part of the all target produces the right
result.

As a temporary workaround, invoke GetAllFiles like this:

AllFiles := $(call GetAllFiles,Source makefile)

Using recursively expanded variables, e.g.,

AllFiles = $(call GetAllFiles,Source)

, also fixes the problem, but they aren't really a good solution for this.

 Result of running 'make --version':
 GNU Make 3.80
 [snip]

 It is a very strange problem.

Indeed.

 A couple of weeks ago I started a thread about the exact same problem on
 the make-w32 mailing list, assuming it had something to do with long
 file names. The thread is located here:

 http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/make-w32/2005-07/msg00011.html

Not the same problem.  There, the output was corrupted, here, the variable
assignment has gone awry.

 As one can see, this problem has been fixed. Unfortunately, no newer
 version of make has been release so far, except for betas, the latest
 one being is 3.81beta3. The source code of the windows version of
 3.81beta3 is available at ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/make/

This particular problem must've been fixed by some other patch.
Nonetheless, now that the make maintainer is aware that there is a bug,
he'll likely look into releasing the updated version of make at some
point.  Since he's a volunteer (like the rest of us), he'll do it on his
own schedule (the bug is relatively minor, and there's a workaround, so
this probably won't happen soon).

HTH,
Igor
-- 
http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/
  |\  _,,,---,,_[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ZZZzz /,`.-'`'-.  ;-;;,_[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'   Igor Pechtchanski, Ph.D.
'---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-.  Meow!

If there's any real truth it's that the entire multidimensional infinity
of the Universe is almost certainly being run by a bunch of maniacs. /DA

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Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-16 Thread Christopher Faylor
On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 10:29:17AM -0400, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
This particular problem must've been fixed by some other patch.
Nonetheless, now that the make maintainer is aware that there is a bug,
he'll likely look into releasing the updated version of make at some
point.  Since he's a volunteer (like the rest of us), he'll do it on his
own schedule (the bug is relatively minor, and there's a workaround, so
this probably won't happen soon).

Actually, I think I've said on more than one occasion that I'm waiting
for an official upstream make release before I make the next cygwin
release of make.

cgf

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Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-16 Thread Igor Pechtchanski
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005, Christopher Faylor wrote:

 On Tue, Aug 16, 2005 at 10:29:17AM -0400, Igor Pechtchanski wrote:
 This particular problem must've been fixed by some other patch.
 Nonetheless, now that the make maintainer is aware that there is a bug,
 he'll likely look into releasing the updated version of make at some
 point.  Since he's a volunteer (like the rest of us), he'll do it on his
 own schedule (the bug is relatively minor, and there's a workaround, so
 this probably won't happen soon).

 Actually, I think I've said on more than one occasion that I'm waiting
 for an official upstream make release before I make the next cygwin
 release of make.

Ok, so you looked into it (at some point) and decided to wait until an
upstream release (which probably won't happen soon).  You gotta admit, I
was close... :-)

Seriously, though -- since your policy is to only package upstream
releases of make, maybe stating this in future announcements would quell
some of the requests for updates...
Igor
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Re: May g++ output windows-style paths instead of cygwin-style one?

2005-08-16 Thread Shankar Unni

Brian Dessent wrote:

Angel Tsankov wrote:


Is there any way I can force the cygwin build of g++ to output folders
using windows style (e.g. c:\folder\file) instead of cygwin style
(/cygdrive/c/folder/file) when writing dependency files (-MM option)?


No, there's no way to do that.  


Actually, there is: if the input path names to gcc/g++ are 
windows-style, it will happily emit windows-style paths to the -M output:


% gcc -M /cygdrive/c/Shankar/foo.c
foo.o: /cygdrive/c/Shankar/foo.c

% gcc -M c:/Shankar/foo.c
foo.o: c:/Shankar/foo.c

And just to remind the OP: c:/Shankar *IS* a windows-style name (the 
underlying Win32 API happily takes both \ and / as directory separators).


So you just have to define the directories in your Makefile using 
Windows-style paths, and preferably use / to avoid escape-related 
problems..



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