Re: List responces (Was: Re: Third-party products that include Cygwin)
At 12:31 AM 12/20/2003, Rolf Campbell you wrote: Larry Hall wrote: At 05:24 PM 12/13/2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen you wrote: PLEASE NOTE: ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** I'm a little confused by the intent of your note above. If this is directed at me, I replied to your message the way I always reply, with reply all. That goes to the list. It also goes to you directly, since you don't set your reply-to header. If you prefer to get just one copy of any reply (i.e. the one that goes to the list), set your reply-to header to point to the list. My email client will obey your stated preference automatically. Of course, if you were directing this comment at someone else, then you can ignore the above. You have made an assumption that everyone accesses this list the same way you do. For those of us that use the nntp gateway, we cannot set our reply-to field to be the list. Good point. My apologies. I guess if your method of access doesn't support reply-to, you're stuck with the status quo unless you decide to use Chris's new reply-to only list. You (and anyone else that has this problem) might want to check it out. -- Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office 838 Washington Street (508) 893-9889 - FAX Holliston, MA 01746 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
List responces (Was: Re: Third-party products that include Cygwin)
Larry Hall wrote: At 05:24 PM 12/13/2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen you wrote: PLEASE NOTE: ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** I'm a little confused by the intent of your note above. If this is directed at me, I replied to your message the way I always reply, with reply all. That goes to the list. It also goes to you directly, since you don't set your reply-to header. If you prefer to get just one copy of any reply (i.e. the one that goes to the list), set your reply-to header to point to the list. My email client will obey your stated preference automatically. Of course, if you were directing this comment at someone else, then you can ignore the above. You have made an assumption that everyone accesses this list the same way you do. For those of us that use the nntp gateway, we cannot set our reply-to field to be the list. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: [OT] RE: Third-party products that include cygwin
Christopher Faylor wrote on Monday, December 15, 2003 6:23 PM: I was thinking about adding a cygwin-set-reply-to opt-in subscription list for people (like me) who always want the reply-to set to the mailing list. It would require a fair amount of rework of the spam blocking software but it is doable. Would that be a useful feature? Definately YES. :) Regards, Jörg -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: [OT] RE: Third-party products that include cygwin
On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 11:39:25AM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: I feel your pain, but there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I have Outlook Express 5 installed on my machine (though I don't use it), and I've poked around a bit. Try going to the Tools-Accounts menu from the main window, and adding a Mail account. Once you add it, select it and click on Properties. One of the options there is the Reply address (which looks like what you want). HTH anyone who is forced to use Outaluck^H^H^H^H^Hlook (boy, am I glad I'm not). Ahh..! The above lead me to it! Thanks Igor. Outlook 2000: Tools-Accounts-Mail (tab)-(Choose account)-Properties-Reply Address Note here that Outlook Express and Outlook are two different things. The latter is a professional thing containing a Calendar, Contacts, Email, News, Journal, Notes and Tasks just to quote folder list. I'm not that keen on investigating the hidden features. ken.thompson at .xx.edu pointed this out in personal email: When composing a mail message, select Options from the View menu. Under Deliver Options check Have replies sent to: and enter the e-mail address you wish to have replies sent to. This should do the trick. Ken Which of course works for sending single mail... So obviously we're not out of options... Now all I wish for is a per-folder setting for this. ;-7 (I'm never satisfied, am I ;-). A folder contains sorted email, I use different folders for each email list I'm reading) Also, thanks to those who helped getting things right in English. The more you learn, the less you know seems to be the 'usual' way :-) From: Christopher Faylor Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 6:23 PM I was thinking about adding a cygwin-set-reply-to opt-in subscription list for people (like me) who always want the reply-to set to the mailing list. It would require a fair amount of rework of the spam blocking software but it is doable. Would that be a useful feature? cgf Though I'm late to it: I would appreciate it tremendously :-) The other ideas I read about in the ADMINISTRIVIA and META marked threads seems as good ideas - some even better than the above. Great thinking Chris! /Hannu E K Nevalainen, B.Sc. EE - 59+16.37'N, 17+12.60'E ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** -- printf(LocalTime: UTC+%02d\n,(DST)? 2:1); -- --END OF MESSAGE-- -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: [OT] RE: Third-party products that include cygwin
On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 10:23:26PM +0100, Hannu E K Nevalainen wrote: I was thinking about adding a cygwin-set-reply-to opt-in subscription list for people (like me) who always want the reply-to set to the mailing list. It would require a fair amount of rework of the spam blocking software but it is doable. Would that be a useful feature? Though I'm late to it: I would appreciate it tremendously :-) It's already implemented. No need to vote on it. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
Hi. In Outlook XP at least, I just select Reply To All and it gets the cygwin list, and I also use the Reply to direct correspondence. Seems to work ok. As for the business requires Outlook. Yeah I know. I did consulting for one shop, and I was terrified, especially with all the viruses at the time. The director there had so many spams. I tried to get them to use Mozilla, and they employees there loved it. But the main IT HQ made a big fuss about using non-approved software, which includes alternatives to M$ software. Sometimes I think that certification also means mindlessness... I guess I could also suffer from this as I currently work at a client that seems pretty intent on enforcing the use of Outlook (not sure why but whatever). Since clients come and go, I wouldn't want to use'em for my access to this list anyway so I simply keep my home machine up all the time and ssh/VNC to it. From this, I can use my work and/or personal email accounts and the tools that work for me best. Perhaps that's another option for you. Otherwise, you're stuck at the mercy of Outlook and the charity of those on this list that might remember what your preferences are. I've done so this time. Can't say that I'll remember to do so next time. :-( -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
[OT] RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen wrote: From: Larry Hall Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 7:23 PM At 05:24 PM 12/13/2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen you wrote: From: Larry Hall Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:21 PM PLEASE NOTE: ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** I'm a little confused by the intent of your note above. If this is directed at me, I replied to your message the way I always reply, with reply all. That goes to the list. It also goes to you directly, since you don't set your reply-to header. If you prefer to get just one copy of any reply (i.e. the one that goes to the list), set your reply-to header to point to the list. My email client will obey your stated preference automatically. Of course, if you were directing this comment at someone else, then you can ignore the above. The problem is that I do not have the option to set the reply-to header. I'm lost in the wasteland of MS software; i.e. I'm running Outlook 2000 and have no other viable options. Asking support personell on the matter gives nothing (they know less than I do), scouring the helpfiles and documents that I have available gives nothing. The above request is all I can do. Hannu, I feel your pain, but there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I have Outlook Express 5 installed on my machine (though I don't use it), and I've poked around a bit. Try going to the Tools-Accounts menu from the main window, and adding a Mail account. Once you add it, select it and click on Properties. One of the options there is the Reply address (which looks like what you want). HTH anyone who is forced to use Outaluck^H^H^H^H^Hlook (boy, am I glad I'm not). Igor -- http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ |\ _,,,---,,_[EMAIL PROTECTED] ZZZzz /,`.-'`'-. ;-;;,_[EMAIL PROTECTED] |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski, Ph.D. '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! I have since come to realize that being between your mentor and his route to the bathroom is a major career booster. -- Patrick Naughton -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: [OT] RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
Sincere commiserations from a fellow forced-to-use-Outlook sufferer. Yep; even hopeless-little-amateurish 'Outlook Express' allows you to set your 'reply to' addressing as you wish, while those of us tied-in to using the 'professional' Outlook are stuck with no choice. Even more tiresome is the way it insists on quoting the previous sender's e-mail address in the message text - to the delight of spam harvesters everywhere. Simply delightful - isn't it ? Micro$oft - what would you like to get pissed-off with today. | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf | Of Igor Pechtchanski | Sent: 15 December 2003 16:39 | To: Hannu E K Nevalainen | Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Subject: [OT] RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin | | On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen wrote: | | From: Larry Hall | Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 7:23 PM | | At 05:24 PM 12/13/2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen you wrote: |From: Larry Hall |Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:21 PM | | | PLEASE NOTE: | ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that | particular list ** | | I'm a little confused by the intent of your note above. | If this is | directed at me, I replied to your message the way I | always reply, with | reply all. That goes to the list. It also goes to you | directly, since | you don't set your reply-to header. If you prefer to get | just one copy | of any reply (i.e. the one that goes to the list), set | your reply-to | header to point to the list. My email client will obey | your stated | preference automatically. Of course, if you were | directing this comment | at someone else, then you can ignore the above. | | The problem is that I do not have the option to set the | reply-to header. | I'm lost in the wasteland of MS software; i.e. I'm running | Outlook 2000 | and have no other viable options. Asking support personnel | on the matter | gives nothing (they know less than I do), scouring the helpfiles and | documents that I have available gives nothing. | The above request is all I can do. | | Hannu, | | I feel your pain, but there seems to be a light at the end of | the tunnel. | I have Outlook Express 5 installed on my machine (though I | don't use it), | and I've poked around a bit. Try going to the | Tools-Accounts menu from | the main window, and adding a Mail account. Once you add | it, select it | and click on Properties. One of the options there is the Reply | address (which looks like what you want). HTH anyone who is | forced to | use Outaluck^H^H^H^H^Hlook (boy, am I glad I'm not). | Igor | -- | http://cs.nyu.edu/~pechtcha/ | |\ _,,,---,,_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | ZZZzz /,`.-'`'-. ;-;;,_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' Igor Pechtchanski, Ph.D. | '---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL a.k.a JaguaR-R-R-r-r-r-.-.-. Meow! | | I have since come to realize that being between your mentor | and his route | to the bathroom is a major career booster. -- Patrick Naughton | | -- | Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple | Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html | Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html | FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ | | -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: [OT] RE: Third-party products that include cygwin
On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 11:39:25AM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: I feel your pain, but there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I have Outlook Express 5 installed on my machine (though I don't use it), and I've poked around a bit. Try going to the Tools-Accounts menu from the main window, and adding a Mail account. Once you add it, select it and click on Properties. One of the options there is the Reply address (which looks like what you want). HTH anyone who is forced to use Outaluck^H^H^H^H^Hlook (boy, am I glad I'm not). I was thinking about adding a cygwin-set-reply-to opt-in subscription list for people (like me) who always want the reply-to set to the mailing list. It would require a fair amount of rework of the spam blocking software but it is doable. Would that be a useful feature? cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: [OT] RE: Third-party products that include cygwin
On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 12:22:47PM -0500, Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 11:39:25AM -0500, Igor Pechtchanski wrote: I feel your pain, but there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I have Outlook Express 5 installed on my machine (though I don't use it), and I've poked around a bit. Try going to the Tools-Accounts menu from the main window, and adding a Mail account. Once you add it, select it and click on Properties. One of the options there is the Reply address (which looks like what you want). HTH anyone who is forced to use Outaluck^H^H^H^H^Hlook (boy, am I glad I'm not). I was thinking about adding a cygwin-set-reply-to opt-in subscription list for people (like me) who always want the reply-to set to the mailing list. It would require a fair amount of rework of the spam blocking software but it is doable. Would that be a useful feature? YES, that would definitely by a useful feature :) rlc -- This life is a test. It is only a test. Had this been an actual life, you would have received further instructions as to what to do and where to go. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 08:26:34PM +0100, Hannu E K Nevalainen wrote: Well, no one knows everything. :-) I've also noted: The more you learn, the more you know that you don't know. (Is that correct/good English? Feels bad to me in some way). I think that's fine English, though I think the more popular way to say it is The more you learn, the less you know! Your way actually might be more technically correct. It's all very simple really. The message is that there are known knowns - there are things that we know that we know. There are known unknowns - that is to say, there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns - there are things we do not know we don't know. And each year we discover a few more of those unknown unknowns. ;-) http://www.timble.me.uk/funny/rumsfeld.html -- Gary R. Van Sickle -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
At 05:24 PM 12/13/2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen you wrote: From: Larry Hall Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:21 PM PLEASE NOTE: ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** I'm a little confused by the intent of your note above. If this is directed at me, I replied to your message the way I always reply, with reply all. That goes to the list. It also goes to you directly, since you don't set your reply-to header. If you prefer to get just one copy of any reply (i.e. the one that goes to the list), set your reply-to header to point to the list. My email client will obey your stated preference automatically. Of course, if you were directing this comment at someone else, then you can ignore the above. I think both Chris, Rob, and others have pointed out gap in your setup knowledge here. 'Nuff said. Thanks for not pushing it, this seems to be yet another time when I'm wrong - at least to some extent. Well, no one knows everything. :-) Might I ask where this functionality of setup is documented? Not /u/s/d/cygwin-doc-1.3/html/cygwin-ug-net/setup-net.html as it seems. And please: source is *not* documentation, independently of how readable it is. Sorry, no. Not every piece of functionality is documented for Cygwin and its setup program. It has been discussed many times on the cygwin-apps list. Here's one message that lists out at least some command line options: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2003-03/msg00526.html So the email archives is the only place I know of that has this information at this point, unless someone wants to look at the source (which you stated you did not). If you're interested, I'm sure Rob, Max, and others actively involved in the development of setup would consider any patch you might want to generate that moves this documentation into a more obvious/official spot. -- Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office 838 Washington Street (508) 893-9889 - FAX Holliston, MA 01746 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
From: Larry Hall Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 7:23 PM At 05:24 PM 12/13/2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen you wrote: From: Larry Hall Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:21 PM PLEASE NOTE: ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** I'm a little confused by the intent of your note above. If this is directed at me, I replied to your message the way I always reply, with reply all. That goes to the list. It also goes to you directly, since you don't set your reply-to header. If you prefer to get just one copy of any reply (i.e. the one that goes to the list), set your reply-to header to point to the list. My email client will obey your stated preference automatically. Of course, if you were directing this comment at someone else, then you can ignore the above. The problem is that I do not have the option to set the reply-to header. I'm lost in the wasteland of MS software; i.e. I'm running Outlook 2000 and have no other viable options. Asking support personell on the matter gives nothing (they know less than I do), scouring the helpfiles and documents that I have available gives nothing. The above request is all I can do. Time permitting I hope to set up a more useful environment (cygwin or linux, local fetchmail). Though: Time has become a scarce resource now :-P. I think both Chris, Rob, and others have pointed out gap in your setup knowledge here. 'Nuff said. Thanks for not pushing it, this seems to be yet another time when I'm wrong - at least to some extent. Well, no one knows everything. :-) I've also noted: The more you learn, the more you know that you don't know. (Is that correct/good English? Feels bad to me in some way). Might I ask where this functionality of setup is documented? Not /u/s/d/cygwin-doc-1.3/html/cygwin-ug-net/setup-net.html as it seems. And please: source is *not* documentation, independently of how readable it is. Sorry, no. Not every piece of functionality is documented for Cygwin and its setup program. It has been discussed many times on the cygwin-apps list. Here's one message that lists out at least some command line options: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2003-03/msg00526.html So the email archives is the only place I know of that has this information at this point, All right, that explains my ignorance. I read this list only, nothing else WRT cygwin (except docs). unless someone wants to look at the source (which you stated you did not). I have no problem reading source, but using it as *user* documentation is a long shot IMO. I consider myself a very knowledgable computer user and programmer (under the right conditions), but a newbie user in the cygwin/POSIX world. If you're interested, I'm sure Rob, Max, and others actively involved in the development of setup would consider any patch you might want to generate that moves this documentation into a more obvious/official spot. =-) well, I should have expected that... That's a long version of PTC ;-D /Hannu E K Nevalainen, B.Sc. EE - 59+16.37'N, 17+12.60'E ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** -- printf(LocalTime: UTC+%02d\n,(DST)? 2:1); -- --END OF MESSAGE-- -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
At 02:26 PM 12/14/2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen you wrote: From: Larry Hall Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 7:23 PM At 05:24 PM 12/13/2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen you wrote: From: Larry Hall Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:21 PM PLEASE NOTE: ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** I'm a little confused by the intent of your note above. If this is directed at me, I replied to your message the way I always reply, with reply all. That goes to the list. It also goes to you directly, since you don't set your reply-to header. If you prefer to get just one copy of any reply (i.e. the one that goes to the list), set your reply-to header to point to the list. My email client will obey your stated preference automatically. Of course, if you were directing this comment at someone else, then you can ignore the above. The problem is that I do not have the option to set the reply-to header. I'm lost in the wasteland of MS software; i.e. I'm running Outlook 2000 and have no other viable options. Asking support personell on the matter gives nothing (they know less than I do), scouring the helpfiles and documents that I have available gives nothing. The above request is all I can do. Time permitting I hope to set up a more useful environment (cygwin or linux, local fetchmail). Though: Time has become a scarce resource now :-P. I guess I could also suffer from this as I currently work at a client that seems pretty intent on enforcing the use of Outlook (not sure why but whatever). Since clients come and go, I wouldn't want to use'em for my access to this list anyway so I simply keep my home machine up all the time and ssh/VNC to it. From this, I can use my work and/or personal email accounts and the tools that work for me best. Perhaps that's another option for you. Otherwise, you're stuck at the mercy of Outlook and the charity of those on this list that might remember what your preferences are. I've done so this time. Can't say that I'll remember to do so next time. :-( I think both Chris, Rob, and others have pointed out gap in your setup knowledge here. 'Nuff said. Thanks for not pushing it, this seems to be yet another time when I'm wrong - at least to some extent. Well, no one knows everything. :-) I've also noted: The more you learn, the more you know that you don't know. (Is that correct/good English? Feels bad to me in some way). It's fine by today's standards. ;-) Might I ask where this functionality of setup is documented? Not /u/s/d/cygwin-doc-1.3/html/cygwin-ug-net/setup-net.html as it seems. And please: source is *not* documentation, independently of how readable it is. Sorry, no. Not every piece of functionality is documented for Cygwin and its setup program. It has been discussed many times on the cygwin-apps list. Here's one message that lists out at least some command line options: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2003-03/msg00526.html So the email archives is the only place I know of that has this information at this point, All right, that explains my ignorance. I read this list only, nothing else WRT cygwin (except docs). Yeah, cygwin-apps is the main discussion list for setup. If you're interested in that topic, subscribe there. unless someone wants to look at the source (which you stated you did not). I have no problem reading source, but using it as *user* documentation is a long shot IMO. Oh of course that's true! I consider myself a very knowledgable computer user and programmer (under the right conditions), but a newbie user in the cygwin/POSIX world. If you're interested, I'm sure Rob, Max, and others actively involved in the development of setup would consider any patch you might want to generate that moves this documentation into a more obvious/official spot. =-) well, I should have expected that... That's a long version of PTC ;-D Quite true. A rose by any other name... ;-) -- Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office 838 Washington Street (508) 893-9889 - FAX Holliston, MA 01746 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Third-party products that include Cygwin
On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 08:26:34PM +0100, Hannu E K Nevalainen wrote: Well, no one knows everything. :-) I've also noted: The more you learn, the more you know that you don't know. (Is that correct/good English? Feels bad to me in some way). I think that's fine English, though I think the more popular way to say it is The more you learn, the less you know! Your way actually might be more technically correct. Might I ask where this functionality of setup is documented? Not /u/s/d/cygwin-doc-1.3/html/cygwin-ug-net/setup-net.html as it seems. And please: source is *not* documentation, independently of how readable it is. Sorry, no. Not every piece of functionality is documented for Cygwin and its setup program. It has been discussed many times on the cygwin-apps list. Here's one message that lists out at least some command line options: http://sources.redhat.com/ml/cygwin-apps/2003-03/msg00526.html So the email archives is the only place I know of that has this information at this point, All right, that explains my ignorance. I read this list only, nothing else WRT cygwin (except docs). unless someone wants to look at the source (which you stated you did not). I have no problem reading source, but using it as *user* documentation is a long shot IMO. I consider myself a very knowledgable computer user and programmer (under the right conditions), but a newbie user in the cygwin/POSIX world. If you're interested, I'm sure Rob, Max, and others actively involved in the development of setup would consider any patch you might want to generate that moves this documentation into a more obvious/official spot. =-) well, I should have expected that... That's a long version of PTC ;-D Actually, I'd originally asked on cygwin-apps@ so that I could get a man page together, but I don't think cygwin.com/setup.exe supports what the latest CVS HEAD developer cygwin.com/setup-snapshots/ one does. Those of you using setup.exe in batch mode, are you using command-line options with stock setup.exe, developer versions, or your own builds? If it's the regular cygwin.com/setup.exe, I'll note it down now and get some documentation in the next iteration of cygwin-doc. In any case I can link to that message from the setup.exe homepage. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
At 04:53 PM 12/12/2003, Hannu E K Nevalainen you wrote: From: Larry Hall Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:19 PM SNIP - here and there David A Cobb: However, I'm wondering if we could make it easier? How about storing /HKLM/Cygnus Solutions/Cygwin/DLL_PATH=native:/path/to/cygwin1.dll and /HKLM/Cygnus Solutions/Cygwin/DLL_VERSION=1.2.3 And providing a simple C routine to return the critical information. I'm less sure about this piece -- most use things like InstallShield and I don't know how the scripting works there. Of course, if they simply looked at the mount point /HKLM/Cyg.../Cygwin/mounts_v2/bin, they could work it all out!!! The prescribed approach is for third parties to not bundle cygwin1.dll but instead point to cygwin.com and say Install This First. Not good for users that are unfamiliar with cygwin, uninterested in cygwin itself or something else on that line. Sure. But it gets the job done and is the easy one for the dependent third party package. It's up to the third party to decide if it's important enough to their user base to provide something more automated. Either way, this approach is *far* more maintainable and less troublesome for the user in the long run. An alternative is a nice automated way in their installer to invoke the Cygwin installer. Heh... that would IMO require setup.exe to be able to do batch runs. Not possible, unless changes has been done very recently. I think both Chris, Rob, and others have pointed out gap in your setup knowledge here. 'Nuff said. If they do this, then there's no chance of having more than 1 cygwin1.dll installed and no one needs to check for one. Of course, doing the checking is not hard (FindFirstFile()/FindNextFile()) even if it's not necessary. I'm not keen of seeing this kinds of solutions being run on my computer as it is low spec to put it mildly. First of all; The FindFirstFile()/FindNextFile() thingie would probably run for ten minutes, or even more. I would be sitting there wondering what the heck was happening, and I would *not* be polite to the person who created this misnomer. Second; how is this FindFirstFile()/FindNextFile() thing supposed to handle the existense of more than one device? i.e: $ mount | grep -re '^.: .*' P: on /dev/dvd type system (binmode) Q: on /dev/zip type system (binmode) R: on /dev/dcdr type system (binmode) S: on /dev/dcds type system (binmode) T: on /dev/dcdt type system (binmode) U: on /dev/dcdu type system (binmode) c: on /cygdrive/c type system (binmode,noumount) d: on /cygdrive/d type system (binmode,noumount) e: on /cygdrive/e type system (binmode,noumount) f: on /cygdrive/f type system (binmode,noumount) g: on /cygdrive/g type system (binmode,noumount) h: on /cygdrive/h type system (binmode,noumount) i: on /cygdrive/i type system (binmode,noumount) w: on /cygdrive/w type system (binmode,noumount) is what I have available currently. Is that thing supposed to look through all of it? If I connect my Digicams there will be three more devices to scan through. What if it finds more than one cygwin1.dll, is it supposed to erase the second one then? Please, don't even mention this anymore, that's real bad programming IMO. Not very likely to end up in something viable. Ah come on Hannu. I clearly mentioned this as an *option* and merely to clarify that finding a particular file is supported by the O/S at an API level. I'm sure anyone that implemented this approach would use these APIs to do it the right way and wouldn't adopt your assumed low spec way. I don't understand why you are trolling for flames on this topic. There got to be better, future-safe, flexible and extendable aproaches to this. Right. They were discussed and I told you the recommended approach. It solves the problem and works for others. If it doesn't for you, then implement the solution you like that is better than the prescribed one and propose it. A good *attempt* at this was presented above IMO. I can only assume that David wasn't aware of the previous discussions on this topic and the recommended solution. If not, I don't see the benefit of providing third parties with yet another solution. It won't make our job any easier and if they're not taking advantage of the recommended solution, I can't believe that providing an alternative changes the situation in any way. You're arguing for a solution on the wrong end of the problem here IMO. Education/evangelization of the recommended approach is what's necessary. If you're interested in helping to ease the problem of third party installation clashes, I'd suggest thinking about what can be done to get the word out. That's my point. -- Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office 838 Washington Street (508) 893-9889 - FAX Holliston, MA 01746 -- Unsubscribe info:
RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
From: Larry Hall Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:21 PM PLEASE NOTE: ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** I think both Chris, Rob, and others have pointed out gap in your setup knowledge here. 'Nuff said. Thanks for not pushing it, this seems to be yet another time when I'm wrong - at least to some extent. Might I ask where this functionality of setup is documented? Not /u/s/d/cygwin-doc-1.3/html/cygwin-ug-net/setup-net.html as it seems. And please: source is *not* documentation, independently of how readable it is. /Hannu E K Nevalainen, B.Sc. EE - 59+16.37'N, 17+12.60'E ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** -- printf(LocalTime: UTC+%02d\n,(DST)? 2:1); -- --END OF MESSAGE-- -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
From: Larry Hall Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:19 PM SNIP - here and there David A Cobb: However, I'm wondering if we could make it easier? How about storing /HKLM/Cygnus Solutions/Cygwin/DLL_PATH=native:/path/to/cygwin1.dll and /HKLM/Cygnus Solutions/Cygwin/DLL_VERSION=1.2.3 And providing a simple C routine to return the critical information. I'm less sure about this piece -- most use things like InstallShield and I don't know how the scripting works there. Of course, if they simply looked at the mount point /HKLM/Cyg.../Cygwin/mounts_v2/bin, they could work it all out!!! The prescribed approach is for third parties to not bundle cygwin1.dll but instead point to cygwin.com and say Install This First. Not good for users that are unfamiliar with cygwin, uninterested in cygwin itself or something else on that line. An alternative is a nice automated way in their installer to invoke the Cygwin installer. Heh... that would IMO require setup.exe to be able to do batch runs. Not possible, unless changes has been done very recently. If they do this, then there's no chance of having more than 1 cygwin1.dll installed and no one needs to check for one. Of course, doing the checking is not hard (FindFirstFile()/FindNextFile()) even if it's not necessary. I'm not keen of seeing this kinds of solutions being run on my computer as it is low spec to put it mildly. First of all; The FindFirstFile()/FindNextFile() thingie would probably run for ten minutes, or even more. I would be sitting there wondering what the heck was happening, and I would *not* be polite to the person who created this misnomer. Second; how is this FindFirstFile()/FindNextFile() thing supposed to handle the existense of more than one device? i.e: $ mount | grep -re '^.: .*' P: on /dev/dvd type system (binmode) Q: on /dev/zip type system (binmode) R: on /dev/dcdr type system (binmode) S: on /dev/dcds type system (binmode) T: on /dev/dcdt type system (binmode) U: on /dev/dcdu type system (binmode) c: on /cygdrive/c type system (binmode,noumount) d: on /cygdrive/d type system (binmode,noumount) e: on /cygdrive/e type system (binmode,noumount) f: on /cygdrive/f type system (binmode,noumount) g: on /cygdrive/g type system (binmode,noumount) h: on /cygdrive/h type system (binmode,noumount) i: on /cygdrive/i type system (binmode,noumount) w: on /cygdrive/w type system (binmode,noumount) is what I have available currently. Is that thing supposed to look through all of it? If I connect my Digicams there will be three more devices to scan through. What if it finds more than one cygwin1.dll, is it supposed to erase the second one then? Please, don't even mention this anymore, that's real bad programming IMO. Not very likely to end up in something viable. There got to be better, future-safe, flexible and extendable aproaches to this. A good *attempt* at this was presented above IMO. /Hannu E K Nevalainen, B.Sc. EE - 59+16.37'N, 17+12.60'E ** on a mailing list; please keep replies on that particular list ** -- printf(LocalTime: UTC+%02d\n,(DST)? 2:1); -- --END OF MESSAGE-- -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
An alternative is a nice automated way in their installer to invoke the Cygwin installer. Heh... that would IMO require setup.exe to be able to do batch runs. Not possible, unless changes has been done very recently. Huh? We've been doing things that way with our software installer for a good 6-9 months now, using a version of setup.exe built from a CVS snapshot. If the user needs Cygwin installed prior to installing our sofware, we kick off setup.exe and let it do it's thing. We do this so the end user at least has a fighting chance of getting questions answered if they post to the mailing list :-) We're not up to installing 1.5.x yet, though. We'll have to wait and see, but I suspect that the sheer number of packages has finally pushed it to the point where we'll need to go with one CD for Cygwin binaries, one CD for source. -Samrobb -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Third-party products that include cygwin
On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 05:04:11PM -0500, Robb, Sam wrote: An alternative is a nice automated way in their installer to invoke the Cygwin installer. Heh... that would IMO require setup.exe to be able to do batch runs. Not possible, unless changes has been done very recently. Huh? We've been doing things that way with our software installer for a good 6-9 months now, using a version of setup.exe built from a CVS snapshot. If the user needs Cygwin installed prior to installing our sofware, we kick off setup.exe and let it do it's thing. I think this is how the BitKeeper folks do it, too, FWIW. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Third-party products that include Cygwin
On Sat, 2003-12-13 at 08:53, Hannu E K Nevalainen wrote: An alternative is a nice automated way in their installer to invoke the Cygwin installer. Heh... that would IMO require setup.exe to be able to do batch runs. Not possible, unless changes has been done very recently. It's been possible to do batch runs for a long time - 1.5 years IIRC. Rob -- GPG key available at: http://www.robertcollins.net/keys.txt. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Third-party products that include Cygwin
At 02:10 PM 12/9/2003, David A. Cobb you wrote: I recently tried out a couple of software packages -- SSH_CONFIGURATOR is one that sticks in my mind -- that are built with Cygwin. Their README documents said there wouldn't be a problem with a properly installed existing Cygwin. Well, there was a problem with mine, which otherwise works just fine for me. Possibly they looked for cygwin1.dll in a specific place, possibly they tried to use PATH. I don't know. Anyway, they left me with multiple cygwin1.dll's so nothing worked at all until I tore them out by the roots. OK, that may be the packagers problem, not ours. However, I'm wondering if we could make it easier? How about storing /HKLM/Cygnus Solutions/Cygwin/DLL_PATH=native:/path/to/cygwin1.dll and /HKLM/Cygnus Solutions/Cygwin/DLL_VERSION=1.2.3 And providing a simple C routine to return the critical information. I'm less sure about this piece -- most use things like InstallShield and I don't know how the scripting works there. Of course, if they simply looked at the mount point /HKLM/Cyg.../Cygwin/mounts_v2/bin, they could work it all out!!! The prescribed approach is for third parties to not bundle cygwin1.dll but instead point to cygwin.com and say Install This First. An alternative is a nice automated way in their installer to invoke the Cygwin installer. If they do this, then there's no chance of having more than 1 cygwin1.dll installed and no one needs to check for one. Of course, doing the checking is not hard (FindFirstFile()/FindNextFile()) even if it's not necessary. -- Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office 838 Washington Street (508) 893-9889 - FAX Holliston, MA 01746 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
