Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 06:54:59PM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Seriously though I was just asking whether it would be possible I think that was obvious to you, me, and Bobby McNulty. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ What? Did I miss something? Chris, this guy has no clue as to what he's talking about. He's worse than me when I first started. He does not know how GPL works, he has no clue as to what Cygwin is or how it got started. He's a musician pretending to be a programmer. But he's not a programmer. He does not know what POSIX is, or why its important for Cygwin, Unix, and Linux. He wants to fix programs that are already stable, such as cmd. If he wants to program a Windows program, he needs to buy Visual Studio. I am learning more and more about Cygwin as I work with it. I learn from my mistakes. Does he? He needs an attitude adjustment. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Bobby McNulty wrote: What? Did I miss something? Apparently lots! Chris, this guy has no clue as to what he's talking about. I beg to differ. I don't know much about ptys - BFD - sue me. That does not mean, however, that I don't know anything. He's worse than me when I first started. Then you must have been pretty good. He does not know how GPL works, I know some about it. However GPL was not mentioned here so it's odd that you mention it. he has no clue as to what Cygwin is or how it got started. Ah yes I do. He's a musician pretending to be a programmer. Actually I've earned a lot more from programming than music. In this respect you sir do not know what you are talking about. But he's not a programmer. I do more administration but I've also done a fair share of programming. He does not know what POSIX is, or why its important for Cygwin, Unix, and Linux. No I know about POSIX, Cygwin, Unix and Linux. Cygwin, however, sometimes departs from standard and strict POSIX in order to inter operate with Windows. For example, there is no cygrunsrv in POSIX nor is there a mkpasswd AFAIK. He wants to fix programs that are already stable, such as cmd. Really? Where did I say that? I don't want to fix cmd. I don't even want to use cmd! What are *you* talking about? I just want some 3rd party programs that I use such as cleartool to be able to work under the bash shell without getting confused by ptys. Now I know that cleartool could be re-written to do things in a more Unix like way - however they're not gonna do that. So I'm looking for a workaround and asking about ptys, something I had not had to deal with at a programming level. If he wants to program a Windows program, he needs to buy Visual Studio. No thanks. I don't want a Windows program and never said that I did so again I ask you - what are *you* talking about?!? I am learning more and more about Cygwin as I work with it. I learn from my mistakes. Does he? He needs an attitude adjustment. You should talk about attitude adjustments! All I'm asking for is a work around for a problem when dealing with certain Windows apps under Cygwin. Is this somehow a crime? Lay off the coffee will ya! -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Sep 20 11:57, Andrew DeFaria wrote: You should be able to start a command in a new console window with cygstart (q.v.). Yes I can, however this starts it in another Windows window that does not easily resize, has crappy copy/paste semantics, colors and fonts. IOW all the reasons why I'm running rxvt! What I want is for it to run in the rxvt window so that I can have the nicer copy/paste, etc, not start a new window. Perhaps (just perhaps) something like Take Command from jpsoft.com is what you're looking for? I never tried it, but it implements an entirely new GUI console. It's not free, though. Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to Cygwin Project Co-Leader mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Red Hat, Inc. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
I am learning more and more about Cygwin as I work with it. I learn from my mistakes. Does he? He needs an attitude adjustment. You should talk about attitude adjustments! All I'm asking for is a work around for a problem when dealing with certain Windows apps under Cygwin. Is this somehow a crime? Lay off the coffee will ya! I'm caffiene free. My tea is decaffinated, my softdrinks a caffiene free. There is no stimulant going on here. This was ordered by my doctor eight years ago. Tell you something else too. I've not created anything in four years. Avoiding hackers. I am NOT a person who breaks into other computers. Are you? I seen your picture, I talked to in person. I heard you play your guitar. What more do you want from me? -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 10:43:55AM +0200, Corinna Vinschen wrote: On Sep 20 11:57, Andrew DeFaria wrote: You should be able to start a command in a new console window with cygstart (q.v.). Yes I can, however this starts it in another Windows window that does not easily resize, has crappy copy/paste semantics, colors and fonts. IOW all the reasons why I'm running rxvt! What I want is for it to run in the rxvt window so that I can have the nicer copy/paste, etc, not start a new window. Perhaps (just perhaps) something like Take Command from jpsoft.com is what you're looking for? I never tried it, but it implements an entirely new GUI console. It's not free, though. I have actually purchased Take Command. IIRC, it has all of the same problems as rxvt. Of course, if it doesn't, all that's required is for someone to figure out how it's done so that it can be implemented in cygwin. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 01:21:25AM -0500, Bobby McNulty wrote: What? Did I miss something? Sorry, I was just pulling the name of a random cygwin mailing list regular out of the air. Maybe I should have used Larry Hall instead... -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Christopher Faylor wrote: On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 01:21:25AM -0500, Bobby McNulty wrote: What? Did I miss something? Sorry, I was just pulling the name of a random cygwin mailing list regular out of the air. Maybe I should have used Larry Hall instead... -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ Does not matter. I don't care about Andrew any way. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Bobby McNulty wrote: I am learning more and more about Cygwin as I work with it. I learn from my mistakes. Does he? He needs an attitude adjustment. You should talk about attitude adjustments! All I'm asking for is a work around for a problem when dealing with certain Windows apps under Cygwin. Is this somehow a crime? Lay off the coffee will ya! I'm caffiene free. My tea is decaffinated, my softdrinks a caffiene free. There is no stimulant going on here. This was ordered by my doctor eight years ago. I wonder why... Tell you something else too. I've not created anything in four years. Hmmm... is this something to brag about? Avoiding hackers. I am NOT a person who breaks into other computers. Are you? No and I resent that you imply that I am. I seen your picture, Whoopee! I talked to in person. Really when? (Not that that is at all grammatically correct - I assume you meant that you talk to me in person) I heard you play your guitar. Really when? (and of what relevance is this to rxvt and ptys?!?) What more do you want from me? How about a little reason, a little proof and a lot less unfounded accusations? -- I put instant coffee in my microwave oven and almost went back in time. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
-Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Andrew DeFaria Sent: 21 September 2004 02:55 rxvt is only a dessert topping. It is not a floor wax. No amount of buffing is going to give you the shine on your floor that you are hoping for. cgf Well my mom always used to say: It doesn't hurt to ask. Apparently she never met you! Now there's a new slogan for the WJM archives! Cygwin - where it DOES hurt to ask! or how about Cygwin - you know your mom wouldn't like it! cheers, DaveK -- Can't think of a witty .sigline today -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Dave Korn wrote: -Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Andrew DeFaria Sent: 21 September 2004 02:55 rxvt is only a dessert topping. It is not a floor wax. No amount of buffing is going to give you the shine on your floor that you are hoping for. cgf Well my mom always used to say: It doesn't hurt to ask. Apparently she never met you! Now there's a new slogan for the WJM archives! Cygwin - where it DOES hurt to ask! or how about Cygwin - you know your mom wouldn't like it! I like it! At least I would have been forewarned! :-) -- I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing! -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 03:47:11PM +0100, Dave Korn wrote: -Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Andrew DeFaria Sent: 21 September 2004 02:55 rxvt is only a dessert topping. It is not a floor wax. No amount of buffing is going to give you the shine on your floor that you are hoping for. Well my mom always used to say: It doesn't hurt to ask. Apparently she never met you! Now there's a new slogan for the WJM archives! Cygwin - where it DOES hurt to ask! How about Cygwin - where it DOES eventually hurt to ask if you start a conversation saying 'I know nothing about X but couldn't you just...' and then keep asking that question in various simple ways even when it is politely implied that it is not possible. Nah. Not as catchy. I am curious, though. Apparently it was the dessert topping comment that was considered rude? Everyone understands the reference, right? cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Christopher Faylor wrote: How about Cygwin - where it DOES eventually hurt to ask if you start a conversation saying 'I know nothing about X but couldn't you just...' and then keep asking that question in various simple ways even when it is politely implied that it is not possible. How about instead of politely imply, politely say. I'm not a mind reader! You also missed an opportunity to *explain* and *educate* instead of berate and demean. (Hmmm... Would demean be the opposite of mean? I don't think so). I don't know nothing about ptys - I know a little. I just don't know the technical details because I've had no reason to date to learn them. So I asked a question - which shouldn't be snapped at but was snapped at nonetheless. A polite and informative reply to such a question would be something akin to No that can't be done because fill in reason here which would have served to enlighten me, and everybody else like me, about the mechanisms of ptys and their limitation and why my request would be difficult to impossible to do. Implying things do nothing to enlighten because they assume you have fore-knowledge - in this case about the technical details involved. However that would not even register on the meanness scale therefore inappropriate for this group I guess. We kid about meanness here but in reality there is no real joke - people here are often mean, which is not something I would brag about but for some reason certain people here seem to feel pride in being mean, which is the opposite of polite. IOW, in general, being mean is *counter productive*! So which are you Chris? Mean? Or polite? -- It's not hard to meet expenses, they're everywhere. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
-Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Christopher Faylor Sent: 21 September 2004 16:40 I am curious, though. Apparently it was the dessert topping comment that was considered rude? Everyone understands the reference, right? Had to google it, I admit. We don't get to see much SNL over here. Shoulda thrown a monty python reference our way if you wanted us limeys to catch it! cheers, DaveK -- Can't think of a witty .sigline today -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Monty Python? Hmmm. I thought it was a reference to the Carol Barnett Show. I remember a skit which was a fake commercial arguing if something was a desert topping or a floor wax. The answer was both. How convenient... On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:53:06 +0100, Dave Korn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Christopher Faylor Sent: 21 September 2004 16:40 I am curious, though. Apparently it was the dessert topping comment that was considered rude? Everyone understands the reference, right? Had to google it, I admit. We don't get to see much SNL over here. Shoulda thrown a monty python reference our way if you wanted us limeys to catch it! cheers, DaveK -- Can't think of a witty .sigline today -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
RE: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
-Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Doctor Bill Sent: 21 September 2004 18:10 On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:53:06 +0100, Dave Korn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey dude! PCYMTNQ... ahh, forget it! -Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Christopher Faylor Sent: 21 September 2004 16:40 I am curious, though. Apparently it was the dessert topping comment that was considered rude? Everyone understands the reference, right? Had to google it, I admit. We don't get to see much SNL over here. Shoulda thrown a monty python reference our way if you wanted us limeys to catch it! Monty Python? Hmmm. I thought it was a reference to the Carol Barnett Show. I remember a skit which was a fake commercial arguing if something was a desert topping or a floor wax. The answer was both. How convenient... SNL == Saturday Night Live. cheers, DaveK -- Can't think of a witty .sigline today -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Hi All... I am curious, though. Apparently it was the dessert topping comment that was considered rude? Everyone understands the reference, right? Yes...Should each of us answer the question individually? (:) _ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
The Carol Burnett Show: 01/10/1976, Is it a dessert topping or a floor wax? Saturday Night Live's Chevy Chase delivers the good news that new Shimmer is both On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 13:10:02 -0400, Doctor Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Monty Python? Hmmm. I thought it was a reference to the Carol Barnett Show. I remember a skit which was a fake commercial arguing if something was a desert topping or a floor wax. The answer was both. How convenient... On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:53:06 +0100, Dave Korn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: cygwin-owner On Behalf Of Christopher Faylor Sent: 21 September 2004 16:40 I am curious, though. Apparently it was the dessert topping comment that was considered rude? Everyone understands the reference, right? Had to google it, I admit. We don't get to see much SNL over here. Shoulda thrown a monty python reference our way if you wanted us limeys to catch it! cheers, DaveK -- Can't think of a witty .sigline today -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
I know, this thread is so far off topic it is silly. To bad a moderator can't retroactively kill messages to a mailing list... BTW. I think I was wrong, it was Saturday Night Live. TGFTM (Thank Goodness For Threaded Mail). Bill On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:11:28 -0700, Karl M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All... I am curious, though. Apparently it was the dessert topping comment that was considered rude? Everyone understands the reference, right? Yes...Should each of us answer the question individually? (:) _ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
There are some cmd shell programs that don't run well in rxvt. Most noticeably, they don't always immediately write out their output. They seem to work fine in the default cmd window though (doesn't matter if it's in cmd or in bash). Does anybody know what the problem is here, and how to fix it? Thanks in advance. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
overbored wrote: There are some cmd shell programs that don't run well in rxvt. Most noticeably, they don't always immediately write out their output. They seem to work fine in the default cmd window though (doesn't matter if it's in cmd or in bash). Does anybody know what the problem is here, and how to fix it? Thanks in advance. What you're seeing is caused by the output of the program going through a tty (or pty as the case may be.) When you run it from a straight cmd.exe it's not using tty code (unless you have CYGWIN=tty set.) From my meagre knowledge of the subject it has to do with the program not explicitly flushing stdout (or not knowing that it needs to as this is usually not required under windows.) Brian -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Brian Dessent wrote: overbored wrote: There are some cmd shell programs that don't run well in rxvt. Most noticeably, they don't always immediately write out their output. They seem to work fine in the default cmd window though (doesn't matter if it's in cmd or in bash). Does anybody know what the problem is here, and how to fix it? Thanks in advance. What you're seeing is caused by the output of the program going through a tty (or pty as the case may be.) When you run it from a straight cmd.exe it's not using tty code (unless you have CYGWIN=tty set.) From my meagre knowledge of the subject it has to do with the program not explicitly flushing stdout (or not knowing that it needs to as this is usually not required under windows.) Is there a CYGWIN setting to tell rxvt not to use ptys? -- 3 kinds of people: those who can count those who can't. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 02:27:42AM -0700, Brian Dessent wrote: overbored wrote: There are some cmd shell programs that don't run well in rxvt. Most noticeably, they don't always immediately write out their output. They seem to work fine in the default cmd window though (doesn't matter if it's in cmd or in bash). Does anybody know what the problem is here, and how to fix it? Thanks in advance. What you're seeing is caused by the output of the program going through a tty (or pty as the case may be.) When you run it from a straight cmd.exe it's not using tty code (unless you have CYGWIN=tty set.) From my meagre knowledge of the subject it has to do with the program not explicitly flushing stdout (or not knowing that it needs to as this is usually not required under windows.) That's more or less correct. The larger problem is that ptys are actually pipes under the hood and some native programs don't deal well with having pipes for their stdin and stdout. They either don't flush their output correctly or they refuse to output anything at all. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 07:15:46AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Is there a CYGWIN setting to tell rxvt not to use ptys? How could a program like rxvt possibly work without ptys? -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Andrew DeFaria wrote: What you're seeing is caused by the output of the program going through a tty (or pty as the case may be.) When you run it from a straight cmd.exe it's not using tty code (unless you have CYGWIN=tty set.) From my meagre knowledge of the subject it has to do with the program not explicitly flushing stdout (or not knowing that it needs to as this is usually not required under windows.) Is there a CYGWIN setting to tell rxvt not to use ptys? I don't think that would do any good. rxvt is a posix program and expects an environment where it has ptys that it can use. Without pty support it would likely complain loudly and refuse to run. Again, I'm pontificating on something I know little about here, but I'm guessing one solution might be some kind of kludge in the cygwin layer that would attempt to detect when a native app is doing buffered writes to a pty and autoflush after each call. But, just a WAG. It might even be out of cygwin's control, if the buffering is done in the CRT of the app. Brian -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 07:15:46AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Is there a CYGWIN setting to tell rxvt not to use ptys? How could a program like rxvt possibly work without ptys? I have no idea. I don't know how nor why they are required. Perhaps you could enlighten us? 'Cause from the outside rxvt looks just like the standard windows window (albeit with more functionality) and that window doesn't seem to require ptys... -- I used to have a handle on life, then it broke. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Brian Dessent wrote: Andrew DeFaria wrote: What you're seeing is caused by the output of the program going through a tty (or pty as the case may be.) When you run it from a straight cmd.exe it's not using tty code (unless you have CYGWIN=tty set.) From my meagre knowledge of the subject it has to do with the program not explicitly flushing stdout (or not knowing that it needs to as this is usually not required under windows.) Is there a CYGWIN setting to tell rxvt not to use ptys? I don't think that would do any good. rxvt is a posix program and expects an environment where it has ptys that it can use. Without pty support it would likely complain loudly and refuse to run. Again, I'm pontificating on something I know little about here, but I'm guessing one solution might be some kind of kludge in the cygwin layer that would attempt to detect when a native app is doing buffered writes to a pty and autoflush after each call. But, just a WAG. It might even be out of cygwin's control, if the buffering is done in the CRT of the app. Cygwin does do some of it's own coding that is conditionally compiled right? Why not conditionally compile stuff to get ptys (or some other equivalent) to function with native Windows apps that are currently having problems with the concept of ptys? I know I often point people to use rxvt because it's a lot better than that silly Windows window. However I often work with Clearcase and Clearcase's main command, cleartool, messes up WRT rxvt and ptys (as well as other tools), so I'm constantly explaining the problem. I'd just like a real solution to offer and to use. I don't understand the internals of ptys vs. ttys and native console I/O nor why it's having the problem. I just deal with the result and would like it fixed if possible. Sounds like it may be a complex fix though. As I said I'm not sure why ptys are necessarily needed in the first place but admittedly I have not researched it. -- Few women admit their age. Few men act theirs. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 08:24:44AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 07:15:46AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Is there a CYGWIN setting to tell rxvt not to use ptys? How could a program like rxvt possibly work without ptys? I have no idea. I don't know how nor why they are required. Perhaps you could enlighten us? 'Cause from the outside rxvt looks just like the standard windows window (albeit with more functionality) and that window doesn't seem to require ptys... rxvt is a port of a UNIX program. UNIX uses ptys. Windows doesn't support the notion of ptys. http://www.google.com/search?q=define:pty If you want to run a standard windows window (i.e., a console window) then that's what you get when you click on the cygwin icon. The terminal input and output is largely controlled by windows and cygwin has little say over how characters are handled. If it was as easy as just using this, don't you think we'd have been doing this by now? cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 08:24:44AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 07:15:46AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Is there a CYGWIN setting to tell rxvt not to use ptys? How could a program like rxvt possibly work without ptys? I have no idea. I don't know how nor why they are required. Perhaps you could enlighten us? 'Cause from the outside rxvt looks just like the standard windows window (albeit with more functionality) and that window doesn't seem to require ptys... rxvt is a port of a UNIX program. UNIX uses ptys. Windows doesn't support the notion of ptys. http://www.google.com/search?q=define:pty Thanks for the define:term thingy of Google. I didn't know that! If you want to run a standard windows window (i.e., a console window) then that's what you get when you click on the cygwin icon. I understand that. But I like using rxvt much better WRT terminal resizing and copy/paste semantics (as well as color and font options). The terminal input and output is largely controlled by windows and cygwin has little say over how characters are handled. If it was as easy as just using this, don't you think we'd have been doing this by now? I never said it would be easy - just desired. Would it be possible to implement a command then that says exec this with tty's instead of ptys? -- If you mated a bulldog and a shitsu, would it be called a bullshit? -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 08:46:32AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Would it be possible to implement a command then that says exec this with tty's instead of ptys? Cygwin ttys and ptys are the same thing. You should be able to start a command in a new console window with cygstart (q.v.). -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 08:46:32AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Would it be possible to implement a command then that says exec this with tty's instead of ptys? Cygwin ttys and ptys are the same thing. OK how about a command that says start this Windows console mode application using whatever it is that will make it happy enough to talk to stdin/stdout/stderr (short of starting a new window that is). You should be able to start a command in a new console window with cygstart (q.v.). Yes I can, however this starts it in another Windows window that does not easily resize, has crappy copy/paste semantics, colors and fonts. IOW all the reasons why I'm running rxvt! What I want is for it to run in the rxvt window so that I can have the nicer copy/paste, etc, not start a new window. -- I put instant coffee in my microwave oven and almost went back in time. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
At 02:57 PM 9/20/2004, you wrote: Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 08:46:32AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Would it be possible to implement a command then that says exec this with tty's instead of ptys? Cygwin ttys and ptys are the same thing. OK how about a command that says start this Windows console mode application using whatever it is that will make it happy enough to talk to stdin/stdout/stderr (short of starting a new window that is). I think the point is that while it may be possible to make changes that do what you want, they are not straight-forward and compromise POSIX portability. I also suspect that this is an area that requires real thought and real effort by someone interested in taking up the effort. If that's you, perhaps you want to get into the code a little bit and come back with questions about specific changes you'd propose. To me, that seems the most productive approach to a solution. -- Larry Hall http://www.rfk.com RFK Partners, Inc. (508) 893-9779 - RFK Office 838 Washington Street (508) 893-9889 - FAX Holliston, MA 01746 -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 11:57:09AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 08:46:32AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Would it be possible to implement a command then that says exec this with tty's instead of ptys? Cygwin ttys and ptys are the same thing. OK how about a command that says start this Windows console mode application using whatever it is that will make it happy enough to talk to stdin/stdout/stderr (short of starting a new window that is). You keep offering simple-minded suggestions that boil down to Well just make rxvt work with these applications that don't like cygwin ptys, then. Let me say it in big letters so that you will understand: IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT. If it was possible, we would have done something long ago. I'd be thrilled to be proved wrong or to have someone point me at documentation which illustrates a way to do this. Until such time, just pounding on points from an admitted complete lack of understanding of the issues is really pretty pointless. You should be able to start a command in a new console window with cygstart (q.v.). Yes I can, however this starts it in another Windows window that does not easily resize, has crappy copy/paste semantics, colors and fonts. And that's the one of the main features of rxvt. But there are trade-offs. The fact that you don't like the trade-offs and desperately want someone to fix them for you does not mean that the trade-offs will go away if you keep offering uninformed suggestions. rxvt is only a dessert topping. It is not a floor wax. No amount of buffing is going to give you the shine on your floor that you are hoping for. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 03:19:12PM -0400, Larry Hall wrote: At 02:57 PM 9/20/2004, you wrote: Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 08:46:32AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Would it be possible to implement a command then that says exec this with tty's instead of ptys? Cygwin ttys and ptys are the same thing. OK how about a command that says start this Windows console mode application using whatever it is that will make it happy enough to talk to stdin/stdout/stderr (short of starting a new window that is). I think the point is that while it may be possible to make changes that do what you want, they are not straight-forward and compromise POSIX portability. Sorry Larry, but the point is that it is not possible to make the changes. So, you start a windows console app and you communicate with it, how, exactly? Open up a pipe? Nope can't do that. How then? I also suspect that this is an area that requires real thought and real effort by someone interested in taking up the effort. I'm not even sure it's possible to do. If it is possible to do, it's probably only possible on NT. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 11:57:09AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Christopher Faylor wrote: On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 08:46:32AM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Would it be possible to implement a command then that says exec this with tty's instead of ptys? Cygwin ttys and ptys are the same thing. OK how about a command that says start this Windows console mode application using whatever it is that will make it happy enough to talk to stdin/stdout/stderr (short of starting a new window that is). You keep offering simple-minded suggestions that boil down to Well just make rxvt work with these applications that don't like cygwin ptys, then. Let me say it in big letters so that you will understand: IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT. If it was possible, we would have done something long ago. I'd be thrilled to be proved wrong or to have someone point me at documentation which illustrates a way to do this. Until such time, just pounding on points from an admitted complete lack of understanding of the issues is really pretty pointless. You should be able to start a command in a new console window with cygstart (q.v.). Yes I can, however this starts it in another Windows window that does not easily resize, has crappy copy/paste semantics, colors and fonts. And that's the one of the main features of rxvt. But there are trade-offs. The fact that you don't like the trade-offs and desperately want someone to fix them for you does not mean that the trade-offs will go away if you keep offering uninformed suggestions. rxvt is only a dessert topping. It is not a floor wax. No amount of buffing is going to give you the shine on your floor that you are hoping for. cgf Well my mom always used to say: It doesn't hurt to ask. Apparently she never met you! Seriously though I was just asking whether it would be possible and trying to gain an understanding as to the issues involved - you need not be rude about it. A simple, that's not possible to do the way things are set up would have sufficed. Seems to me that you said similar things when I asked why does a bash process hang around when you close it via the X box on top and yet now rxvt does kill the bash process... -- Press any key to continue or any other key to quit... -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
Andrew DeFaria wrote: Seriously though I was just asking whether it would be possible and trying to gain an understanding as to the issues involved - you need not be rude about it. A simple, that's not possible to do the way things are set up would have sufficed. Cygwin: You'll come for the posix emulation layer, you'll stay for the meaness. Brian -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
Re: Running cmd programs in cygwin / rxvt
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 06:54:59PM -0700, Andrew DeFaria wrote: Seriously though I was just asking whether it would be possible I think that was obvious to you, me, and Bobby McNulty. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/
