Re: Restructuring gettext

[David A. Cobb]

Christopher Faylor wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 05:07:46PM -0500, David A. Cobb wrote:
> 
>>Charles Wilson wrote:
>>>it occurs.  (Perhaps upgrades of currently installed packages should 
>>>ALWAYS precede installation of new packages?)
>>>
>>
>>I've had cases like this in another context and found the most 
>>straightforward solution is for (setup.exe) to do any uninstalls first, 
>>then any reinstalls, then everything else.  This would also have saved a 
>>few shot toes when libncurses#n came out (I thin`).
>>
> 
> I've thought about suggesting the same thing but the problem with that
> scenario is that if you cancel an installation, then all sorts of stuff
> is uninstalled -- which probably isn't what you expected.

Probably not.  But "cancel" at what point in the process?  It's *real* 
hard to program an installation procedure that's robust in the face of a 
user clicking the "cancel" button in the middle.  Even the 
"professional" packages are likely to barf.
-- 
David A. Cobb, Software Engineer, Public Access Advocate.
New PGP key 09/13/2001:
:
Fingerprint=0x{E7C6_4EE2_6B75_5BA3_C52E__77FA_63C3_9366_DCFB_229B}
"By God's Grace I am a Christian man, by my actions a great sinner."
--The Way of a Pilgrim, R. M. French [tr.]
Potentially Viral Software is any software for which you are not allowed
to examine the source.  Do not buy or use Potentially Viral Software!

Re: Contribution Package Proposal: JASSPA's MicroEmacs

[David A. Cobb]

Charles Wilson wrote:

> However, with the soon-to-be-released features in setup.exe, there's no 
> reason why Jon can't provide a "cygwin-friendly" download site (complete 
> with his own setup.ini) -- folks could then explicitly add his download 
> site to their own list, and the new setup will present a merged view of 
> available packages.
> 
> That is, folks who want JASSPA's MicroEmacs could get it via setup.exe, 
> but it doesn't need to be distributed via the cygwin mirror system.

Gee, Chuck, will that also apply to your Cygwin Utilities page?
-- 
David A. Cobb, Software Engineer, Public Access Advocate.
New PGP key 09/13/2001:
:
Fingerprint=0x{E7C6_4EE2_6B75_5BA3_C52E__77FA_63C3_9366_DCFB_229B}
"By God's Grace I am a Christian man, by my actions a great sinner."
--The Way of a Pilgrim, R. M. French [tr.]
Potentially Viral Software is any software for which you are not allowed
to examine the source.  Do not buy or use Potentially Viral Software!

Re: Restructuring gettext

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 10:40:52AM -0500, David A. Cobb wrote:
>Christopher Faylor wrote:
>
>>On Wed, Jan 02, 2002 at 05:07:46PM -0500, David A. Cobb wrote:
>>
>>>Charles Wilson wrote:
it occurs.  (Perhaps upgrades of currently installed packages should 
ALWAYS precede installation of new packages?)

>>>
>>>I've had cases like this in another context and found the most 
>>>straightforward solution is for (setup.exe) to do any uninstalls first, 
>>>then any reinstalls, then everything else.  This would also have saved a 
>>>few shot toes when libncurses#n came out (I thin`).
>>>
>>
>>I've thought about suggesting the same thing but the problem with that
>>scenario is that if you cancel an installation, then all sorts of stuff
>>is uninstalled -- which probably isn't what you expected.
>
>Probably not.  But "cancel" at what point in the process?  It's *real* 
>hard to program an installation procedure that's robust in the face of a 
>user clicking the "cancel" button in the middle.  Even the 
>"professional" packages are likely to barf.

The "professional" installers aren't installing a number of disparate packages.

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that if I cancel a gcc installation
my current binutils setup will still be intact.

cgf

Re: announcements trapped by anti-viral filter

[Christopher Faylor]

What is this discussion doing here?

I'm getting REALLY sick of having to continually police this mailing list.

I don't know why people can't keep the really simple rule straight.

Does this have something to do with applications that are distributed
with cygwin?  No?  Then keep it in [EMAIL PROTECTED]

It's particularly puzzling why you would redirect this here when there is
no guarantee that the original poster is even subscribed to cygwin-apps.

cgf

On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 08:24:30PM -0800, Joshua Franklin wrote:
>You might also try getting a free-mail account from
>one of the ones that allow POPing--say, Yahoo! ;)
>Subscribe that to cygwin-apps and add
>pop.mail.yahoo.com to your email-fetching client. 
>(You have to set a preference in Yahoo! Mail's options
>to allow pop access, FWIW.)
>
>> I thoroughly agree with you about filter quality.
>> However, this is at
>> Corporate firewall level, and admin will NOT be
>> changing it, (so said the
>> helpdesk). I would dearly love to be able to control
>> my own inbound
>> filtering, since I practice "safe hex", but that's
>> not likely to be allowed
>> soon. Sigh.
>> 
>> Thanks for your to-the-point suggestions, but I
>> can't use them right now. 
>> 
>> Isaac Stoddard
>> Boeing Space & Communications, ISS GN&C Integration,
>> Mail Code HM5-20, Tower II cube 5255
>> voice: (281) 244-4246   fax: (281)244-

Gary's Setup.exe v2.162

[David A. Cobb]

Downloaded 01/04/02,
Some uglinesses:

CHOOSER:
View:Category
Click category=Base ('cause it's numerous), observe painting of text 
quits after about 8 lines.  White space is painted sufficient to fit the 
"missing" text.  Further digging reveals that painting text of the 
package names quits at y=~2/3 height, by the time I tried expanding 
Graphics it only painted 1 package.
Click category=Doc, observe program "wants" to Uninstall libxml2 & 
libxslt.  After a few more games, selected "Experimental".  Now Doc 
category "wants" to keep xml2 & xslt but *uninstall* man & newlib-man.
Select "Prev", observe the program now wants to uninstall anything for 
which it doesn't find a "prev".  IMHO "prev" should *skip* any package 
where it's not possible to back up.

View:Full or Partial
Same ugliness as above, painting of package names quits at y=2/3.
Play with the vertical scroll.  Doing it slowly left me with *nothing* in 
the display area - once I scrolled the fractured text up off the display 
it doesn't come back.
Play QUICKLY with the vertical scroll.  Fragments of text show up, 
unintelligable, at divers points in the list of packages.
-- 
David A. Cobb, Software Engineer, Public Access Advocate.
New PGP key 09/13/2001:
:
Fingerprint=0x{E7C6_4EE2_6B75_5BA3_C52E__77FA_63C3_9366_DCFB_229B}
"By God's Grace I am a Christian man, by my actions a great sinner."
--The Way of a Pilgrim, R. M. French [tr.]
Potentially Viral Software is any software for which you are not allowed
to examine the source.  Do not buy or use Potentially Viral Software!

whois package

[Mark Bradshaw]

I finally got around to putting together the whois package I talked about
back in December.  If whoever handles new packages could take a look at it
and check it out I'd appreciate it.  

Files are at:
http://www.networksimplicity.com/whois/setup.hint
http://www.networksimplicity.com/whois/whois-4.5.15-1-src.tar.bz2
http://www.networksimplicity.com/whois/whois-4.5.15-1.tar.bz2

Mark

Re: whois package

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 04:47:23PM -0500, Mark Bradshaw wrote:
>I finally got around to putting together the whois package I talked about
>back in December.  If whoever handles new packages could take a look at it
>and check it out I'd appreciate it.  
>
>Files are at:
>http://www.networksimplicity.com/whois/setup.hint

BZTT.

*Post* the setup.hint file.

cgf

RE: whois package

[Mark Bradshaw]

picky, picky. :o)

sdesc: "GNU Whois"
ldesc: "A client for the whois directory service.  It allows you to retrieve
information on domains name, IP addresses, and more."
category: Net
requires: cygwin

> -Original Message-
> From: Christopher Faylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 5:17 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: whois package
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 04:47:23PM -0500, Mark Bradshaw wrote:
> >I finally got around to putting together the whois package I 
> talked about
> >back in December.  If whoever handles new packages could 
> take a look at it
> >and check it out I'd appreciate it.  
> >
> >Files are at:
> >http://www.networksimplicity.com/whois/setup.hint
> 
> BZTT.
> 
> *Post* the setup.hint file.
> 
> cgf
> 

Re: Gary's Setup.exe v2.162

[Robert Collins]

- Original Message -
From: "David A. Cobb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 5:01 AM
Subject: Gary's Setup.exe v2.162


> Downloaded 01/04/02,
> Some uglinesses:
>
> CHOOSER:
> View:Category
> Click category=Base ('cause it's numerous), observe painting of text
> quits after about 8 lines.  White space is painted sufficient to fit
the
> "missing" text.  Further digging reveals that painting text of the
> package names quits at y=~2/3 height, by the time I tried expanding
> Graphics it only painted 1 package.
> Click category=Doc, observe program "wants" to Uninstall libxml2 &
> libxslt.  After a few more games, selected "Experimental".  Now Doc
> category "wants" to keep xml2 & xslt but *uninstall* man & newlib-man.
> Select "Prev", observe the program now wants to uninstall anything for
> which it doesn't find a "prev".  IMHO "prev" should *skip* any package
> where it's not possible to back up.

Thank you thank you thank you. This is the new prev/curr/exp behaviour I
asked for feedback on back in early december. Woohoo!

My concept is that upset gets told to fill in the gaps - so that
packages without a prev on disk, or in setup.ini get given the same
version twice in setup.ini - once as prev and once as curr.
Similar logic applies to test, except that a package with test, but no
curr or prev is only listed in test.

> View:Full or Partial
> Same ugliness as above, painting of package names quits at y=2/3.
> Play with the vertical scroll.  Doing it slowly left me with *nothing*
in
> the display area - once I scrolled the fractured text up off the
display
> it doesn't come back.
> Play QUICKLY with the vertical scroll.  Fragments of text show up,
> unintelligable, at divers points in the list of packages.

Very strange. I don't see the graphical issues. These may have been
fixed in CVS - can you try building locally. If you cannot try that than
I can put a new snapshot up.

I fixed a few fenceposts errors yesterday..

Rob

RE: whois package

[Mark Bradshaw]

small type correction:

sdesc: "GNU Whois"
ldesc: "A client for the whois directory service.  It allows you to retrieve
information on domain names, IP addresses, and more."
category: Net
requires: cygwin

> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Bradshaw 
> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 5:20 PM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: whois package
> 
> 
> picky, picky. :o)
> 
> sdesc: "GNU Whois"
> ldesc: "A client for the whois directory service.  It allows 
> you to retrieve
> information on domains name, IP addresses, and more."
> category: Net
> requires: cygwin
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Christopher Faylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 5:17 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: whois package
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 04:47:23PM -0500, Mark Bradshaw wrote:
> > >I finally got around to putting together the whois package I 
> > talked about
> > >back in December.  If whoever handles new packages could 
> > take a look at it
> > >and check it out I'd appreciate it.  
> > >
> > >Files are at:
> > >http://www.networksimplicity.com/whois/setup.hint
> > 
> > BZTT.
> > 
> > *Post* the setup.hint file.
> > 
> > cgf
> > 
> 

Re: Restructuring gettext

[Robert Collins]

- Original Message -
From: "Christopher Faylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The "professional" installers aren't installing a number of disparate
packages.
>
> I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that if I cancel a gcc
installation
> my current binutils setup will still be intact.

Indeed and agreed.

The .MSI microsoft installer packages support complete rollback of
replaced files, registry settings - the lot - if a failure occurs during
an install. And the Microsoft Installer Service can be used for
arbitrary packages.

So the baseline out there is for reliable cancellations.

Rob

Re: Restructuring gettext

[Robert Collins]

- Original Message -
From: "David A. Cobb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > I've thought about suggesting the same thing but the problem with
that
> > scenario is that if you cancel an installation, then all sorts of
stuff
> > is uninstalled -- which probably isn't what you expected.
>
> Probably not.  But "cancel" at what point in the process?  It's *real*
> hard to program an installation procedure that's robust in the face of
a
> user clicking the "cancel" button in the middle.  Even the
> "professional" packages are likely to barf.

It's trivial to design. You treat an install like a series of
transactions. You make the transactions as small as you can while
satisfing all the system constraints - dependencies etc.

Once we've got per version dependencies and conflicts, and ordered
package actions (already described in this list) all we need to do is
make transactions that begin when a _current_ dependency/conflict is
being affected and finish when the system again has a consistent set of
dependencies and conflicts.

Additionally each package install/remove gets treated as an independent
transaction, to allow detection of in-use files.

Easy to code? Maybe not. Not too hard either. Replacing open files?
Sure. Already designed and proof-of-concept shown for setup.exe. How
many to queue at once? Until there are no in-process transactions.

The only restriction this puts on the setup process is that post install
scripts _must_ be able to be deferred until all the physical file
copying is complete.

Rob

Re: whois package

[Christopher Faylor]

On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:26:35PM -0500, Mark Bradshaw wrote:
>small type correction:
>
>sdesc: "GNU Whois"
>ldesc: "A client for the whois directory service.  It allows you to retrieve
>information on domain names, IP addresses, and more."
>category: Net
>requires: cygwin

Didn't even notice the typo.

FWIW, this gets my vote.

cgf

Re: whois package

[Robert Collins]

Ditto.
===
- Original Message -
From: "Christopher Faylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: whois package


> On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 05:26:35PM -0500, Mark Bradshaw wrote:
> >small type correction:
> >
> >sdesc: "GNU Whois"
> >ldesc: "A client for the whois directory service.  It allows you to
retrieve
> >information on domain names, IP addresses, and more."
> >category: Net
> >requires: cygwin
>
> Didn't even notice the typo.
>
> FWIW, this gets my vote.
>
> cgf
>

Re: whois package

[Matthew Smith]

I vote "yes" as well.

cheers,
-Matt

> >sdesc: "GNU Whois"
> >ldesc: "A client for the whois directory service.  It allows you to
retrieve
> >information on domain names, IP addresses, and more."
> >category: Net
> >requires: cygwin
>
> Didn't even notice the typo.
>
> FWIW, this gets my vote.
>
> cgf
>

Re: whois package

[Gerrit P. Haase]

Hallo Christopher,

Am 2002-01-05 um 00:09 schriebst du:

>>sdesc: "GNU Whois"
>>ldesc: "A client for the whois directory service.  It allows you to retrieve
>>information on domain names, IP addresses, and more."
>>category: Net
>>requires: cygwin

> Didn't even notice the typo.

> FWIW, this gets my vote.

It is not stripped:
===
$ ll
total 46
-rwxr-xr-x1 Siebensc Administ46642 Dec 13 21:42 whois.exe*

$ strip *

$ ll
total 24
-rwxr-xr-x1 Siebensc Administ24576 Jan  5 02:03 whois.exe*

The Cygwin Readme isn't included in the source package:
===
$ ls whois-4.5.15-1/
Makefile as_del_list  ip_del_listpo/ whois.1
Makefile.am  config.h make_as_del.pl*test-whois.pl*  whois.c
README   data.h   make_ip_del.pl*tld_serv_list   whois.h
TODO debian/  make_tld_serv.pl*  whois-4.5.15.patch  whois.spec


Besides these LITTLE issues I vote pro;)


Gerrit
-- 
=^..^=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: whois package

[Robert Collins]

Gerrit,
The decision to include a package is based on the package, not the
quality of the packaging.

Once the decision to include is made, then the package gets examined by
an existing package (for new packagers) and these issued examined.

Rob

Re: Contribution Package Proposal: JASSPA's MicroEmacs

[Charles Wilson]

David A. Cobb wrote:

> 
> Gee, Chuck, will that also apply to your Cygwin Utilities page?

Yep -- except that there's really no need.  That page, for all intents 
and purposes, is dead.  Okay, it's not entirely dead yet -- merely 
moribund.  For a number of reasons:

1) Most everything that USED to be there is now in the official dist 
anyway (*** double standard alert...see below ***)

2) Of the remaining stuff, only cygipc, "cygutils(the package)" and the 
auto*wrapper packages are "current" -- I'm pretty sure most of the other 
stuff has suffered a lot of bitrot.

(*** double standard alert ***) why push "my" packages into the dist, 
and not JASSP Emacs?  (a) most of "my" packages are fairly core -- 
libraries and such.  Do you really want to go to an external site for 
ncurses?  zlib?  readline?  cvs?  (b) "my" packages are all open 
source/gnu with no commercial restrictions -- JASSP Emacs is not. 
(Actually, JASSP Emac's status may be changing; this is perhaps an 
outdated objection) But I'm not really arguing AGAINST including JASSP 
Emacs -- I'm just pointing out what will soon be possible, for JASSP 
Emacs AND CygUtils AND Bob's Big Package of FunNGames and whatnot.

--Chuck

Re: whois package

[Charles Wilson]

Robert Collins wrote:

> Gerrit,
> The decision to include a package is based on the package, not the
> quality of the packaging.
> 
> Once the decision to include is made, then the package gets examined by
> an existing package (for new packagers) and these issued examined.


But thanks for taking the time to investigate the packaging quality, and 
for your report.

--Chuck