Re: Invoking rootless mode
Sam Edge was recently quoted as saying... You wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED] in gmane.os.cygwin.xfree on Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:13:10 +0200: oh how I miss the focus follows mouse function within windows, just to mention one At the expense of being somewhat off topic and sounding like a Microsoft UI aficionado you can get this behaviour out of most versions of Windows if you install Microsoft Tweak UI. (Some versions need the XMouse powertoy instead - also from Microsoft.) At the expense of sounding like a picky naysayer, XMouse never worked consistently similar to any other X wm's focus-follows-mouse behaviour that I ever used. And it will never work like Fvwm2 SloppyFocus, which I've become addicted to. :) As for rootless mode, I'd throw out some other caveats and recommendations: * I'm using a Win32 virtual pager. When XWin is active, even in rootless mode, the window covers up the page in the virtual display. (Yes I know why, and this is with JSPager, perhaps there are shape-aware virt pagers for Win32.) * I recommend running this mode with the X server set to run always-on-top. Right now I'm using a tool called Make Always On Top to make XWin.exe this way, perhaps I could suggest that XWin.exe include this ability as a command-line and/or icon-menu option. Right now I'm using Chris's patched binary, set sticky in my Win32 pager, and Always On Top via that tool. I've moved my fvwm root-window menus to be invoked via an added title button on all fvwm windows, and turned on the titlebar for one of my X sticky windows so that I can always access it. I then get myself into the habit of manually minimizing X apps when I need to use a large Win32 app. This is a bit of a minor inconvenience, but the always-on-top has the benefit of making my X icons, winlist and pager window always available. In the meantime, I've trimmed off two pages of my X virtual desktop, two pages off my Windows virtual desktop, and turned off the overhead caused by my X root-pattern switcher (FvwmBacker). I'm enjoying this desktop paradigm. == Keith D. Tyler[EMAIL PROTECTED] Federal Way, WA http://www.keithtyler.com -- If Tyrrany and Oppresion come to this land, it will be under the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison, U.S. President 1809-1817 ==
Re: Invoking rootless mode
Hallo Sam. Sam Edge wrote: At the expense of being somewhat off topic and sounding like a and so on - at least avoid full qoute... Guess I needed that - I had TweakUI already installed for some other reason but never checked the mouse options... sh... By the way: This works absolutely positiv with the -rootless option of the new xwin binary. All looks like being integrated expcept copy/paste. Thanks a lot! Uwe
Re: Invoking rootless mode
Uwe Schmidtmann was recently quoted as saying... Guess I needed that - I had TweakUI already installed for some other reason but never checked the mouse options... sh... By the way: This works absolutely positiv with the -rootless option of the new xwin binary. All looks like being integrated expcept copy/paste. To get integrated copy/paste, you need xwinclip: http://xfree86.cygwin.com/devel/xwinclip/ And warning: it tends to crash here and there, so be prepared to restart it as needed. Some days I have to restart it once or twice. But it works rather well. HTH, == Keith D. Tyler[EMAIL PROTECTED] Federal Way, WA http://www.keithtyler.com -- If Tyrrany and Oppresion come to this land, it will be under the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison, U.S. President 1809-1817 ==
Re: Invoking rootless mode
On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, Keith D. Tyler wrote: * I recommend running this mode with the X server set to run always-on-top. Why? You will never get the w32 windows in front of any x11 window. Right now I'm using a tool called Make Always On Top to make XWin.exe this way, perhaps I could suggest that XWin.exe include this ability as a command-line and/or icon-menu option. Feel free to add such a commandline option. bye ago -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gotti.org ICQ: 126018723
Re: Invoking rootless mode
Keith D. Tyler wrote: At the expense of sounding like a picky naysayer, XMouse never worked consistently similar to any other X wm's focus-follows-mouse behaviour that I ever used. And it will never work like Fvwm2 SloppyFocus, which I've become addicted to. :) Maybe I was not clear enough with my posting (english is not my native language, sorry). What I am running is a combination of xmouse for the native windoze stuff and icewm managing the mouse focus for x11. This is not always flawless, but with icewm using the nice scheme windows and X11 almost look the same and the context switch between X and windoze works without having to click or press any weired keys. This is extremely useful as I use nedit for editing my source code while using borland as a compiler. I am used to nedit for almost 7 years now and had extreme problems with editor integrated in borlands ide when I came to this job. Sorry for being off topic again... Maybe Harold Hunt could give a short hint on where to get the xwin.exe version with less logging... Thanks. Regards and have a nice weekend. Uwe
Re: Invoking rootless mode
Uwe, There is a preliminary Server Test Series - Test 67 release up at: http://www.msu.edu/~huntharo/xwin/shadow/XWin-Test67.exe.bz2 (~1,225 KB) I say that this is preliminary because I built it from the HEAD branch, rather than from the 4.2.0 branch. Thus, if you run xdpyinfo it will report a strange version number, whereas the usual releases report 4.2.0. I am only putting this link up for those few brave soles that want to minimize logging before I can make an official release. Harold Uwe Schmidtmann wrote: Keith D. Tyler wrote: At the expense of sounding like a picky naysayer, XMouse never worked consistently similar to any other X wm's focus-follows-mouse behaviour that I ever used. And it will never work like Fvwm2 SloppyFocus, which I've become addicted to. :) Maybe I was not clear enough with my posting (english is not my native language, sorry). What I am running is a combination of xmouse for the native windoze stuff and icewm managing the mouse focus for x11. This is not always flawless, but with icewm using the nice scheme windows and X11 almost look the same and the context switch between X and windoze works without having to click or press any weired keys. This is extremely useful as I use nedit for editing my source code while using borland as a compiler. I am used to nedit for almost 7 years now and had extreme problems with editor integrated in borlands ide when I came to this job. Sorry for being off topic again... Maybe Harold Hunt could give a short hint on where to get the xwin.exe version with less logging... Thanks. Regards and have a nice weekend. Uwe
Re: Invoking rootless mode
Holger, You will probably want to grab that Test 67 preliminary release that I just posted... it has much better performance due to reduced logging. Take a look at your /tmp/XWin.log file, it is probably over 50 MB. http://www.msu.edu/~huntharo/xwin/shadow/XWin-Test67.exe.bz2 Harold Holger Vogt wrote: Hi all, I have just installed XWin-Test66.exe over a very old Cygwin installation (May 01, X-dlls March 01) on a Windows NT4 notebook. After starting and a short DOS box pop up ... nothing happened. But then there it was: a small green rectangle among all my Windows icons stating sh. Now my screen is full with applications (Xman, Xciruit drawing program, MAGIC layout editor), and still the Windows background, Windows Netscape and others. Congratulations, great work. Holger Vogt
Re: Invoking rootless mode
Hi! The rootless mode is much more interesting than the real one from other products (at least for me). One of the reasons for this is cygwins capability of still being able to use an X11 window manager (e.g. icewm) instead of the dump windows user interface (oh how I miss the focus follows mouse function within windows, just to mention one)... I sometimes use a tail -f to follow some debug from a windows application compiled with borland and I definitely use nedit as my favourite editor (I came from the unix world). The first works much better when in rootless mode than being forced to switch from win to x and the other way round. So - many useless words, but one tip: Having icewm with the statusbar almost everything can be used as with fullscreen mode (Window managers menus are available via status bar). When icewm moves the complete window (I think that was called opaque move) even the problem with the invisible(?) window outline does not exists. So GREAT WORK done there! Bradey Honsinger wrote: I didn't see a mention of the argument to invoke the new rootless mode anywhere in this thread--no doubt it's in the updated man pages, but I just grabbed the Test66 binary. Logically enough, it's '-rootless': -rootless EXPERIMENTAL: Run the server in pseudo-rootless mode. You don't appear to need the '-nodecoration' option when you use '-rootless'. Note that the output of 'XWin -help' goes to /tmp/XWin.log[1], a fact which I had forgotten. I just used -rootless without any other options. Works fine. Window creation and movement slows down a little but when the windows are shown there seems to be no speed punishment for using the pseudo rootless mode. This is really cool--many thanks to Matsuzaki, Thomas, and Harold! It's a bit of a hack, but it looks very useful, and at the least it should get most of the 'Why doesn't cygwin-xfree work like my favorite commerial X server?' people off of Harold's back. I'll probably go back to full-screen 'rooted' mode, though--I _like_ hiding all of the Windows junk when I'm working in X. - Bradey Just one question (little of topic in this thread): Has anyone succesfully used dfm with cygwin? It compiled flawless but when started it complains about dll`s missing in the path. That happened when trying to start a program or to change some preferences. (Funny enough those were cygwin1.dll and libX11.dll and the path was something like c:\cygwin\...) Maybe I just missed an existing patch (took dfm source from the projects homepage). Regards, Uwe
Re: Invoking rootless mode
You wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED] in gmane.os.cygwin.xfree on Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:13:10 +0200: oh how I miss the focus follows mouse function within windows, just to mention one At the expense of being somewhat off topic and sounding like a Microsoft UI aficionado you can get this behaviour out of most versions of Windows if you install Microsoft Tweak UI. (Some versions need the XMouse powertoy instead - also from Microsoft.) Windows 9x, Me, 2000: http://www.microsoft.com/ntworkstation/downloads/PowerToys/Networking/NTTweakUI.asp Windows XP: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/downloads/powertoys.asp XMouse (95): http://www.microsoft.com/windows95/downloads/contents/wutoys/w95pwrtoysset/default.asp This might make working with X and Windows WMs at the same time slightly more consistent. -- Sam Edge
Re: Invoking rootless mode
Bradey, Thanks for pointing that out. I added the -rootless command-line arg to the patch that Matsuzaki sent in, so Test66 and XFree86-xserv-4.2.0-13 are different than the release that Thomas Chadwick made. This version of a rootless mode is precisely what I was aiming for: something simple that can be built off of. I had no idea that it would be quite that simple though! :) Now it is only a matter of time until we implement all of the little features that will make rootless mode complete. Harold Bradey Honsinger wrote: I didn't see a mention of the argument to invoke the new rootless mode anywhere in this thread--no doubt it's in the updated man pages, but I just grabbed the Test66 binary. Logically enough, it's '-rootless': -rootless EXPERIMENTAL: Run the server in pseudo-rootless mode. You don't appear to need the '-nodecoration' option when you use '-rootless'. Note that the output of 'XWin -help' goes to /tmp/XWin.log[1], a fact which I had forgotten. This is really cool--many thanks to Matsuzaki, Thomas, and Harold! It's a bit of a hack, but it looks very useful, and at the least it should get most of the 'Why doesn't cygwin-xfree work like my favorite commerial X server?' people off of Harold's back. I'll probably go back to full-screen 'rooted' mode, though--I _like_ hiding all of the Windows junk when I'm working in X. - Bradey [1] http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-xfree/2002-04/msg00504.html
Invoking rootless mode
I didn't see a mention of the argument to invoke the new rootless mode anywhere in this thread--no doubt it's in the updated man pages, but I just grabbed the Test66 binary. Logically enough, it's '-rootless': -rootless EXPERIMENTAL: Run the server in pseudo-rootless mode. You don't appear to need the '-nodecoration' option when you use '-rootless'. Note that the output of 'XWin -help' goes to /tmp/XWin.log[1], a fact which I had forgotten. This is really cool--many thanks to Matsuzaki, Thomas, and Harold! It's a bit of a hack, but it looks very useful, and at the least it should get most of the 'Why doesn't cygwin-xfree work like my favorite commerial X server?' people off of Harold's back. I'll probably go back to full-screen 'rooted' mode, though--I _like_ hiding all of the Windows junk when I'm working in X. - Bradey [1] http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin-xfree/2002-04/msg00504.html
