RE: missing telnet, solution
Phil, I updated the User's Guide to say that most users will find the default package list sufficient, but that you want to make sure that openssh and inetutils are selected if you wish to use telnet or ssh. Hope that helps. Harold > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Phil Burk > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:49 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: missing telnet, solution > > > I followed all the steps to install Cygwin/XFree from the user guide. > Everything worked great until I got to the part about telnet. It > was missing > from my installation. I spent about two hours looking over the Cygwin site > trying to figure out how to get and install telnet. I noticed in > this forum > that other folks had the same problem but no working solution was offered. > > I finally figured it out. Here's how: > > - re-run the SETUP.EXE program that you used to install Cygwin, > > - select "Install from Internet" option, > > - select same install directory as before, > > - choose a download site as before, > > - when you get a list of packages, click the '+' next to the > "Net" category, > > - select the "inetutils" package and the "openssh" package, > > - continue downloading. > > Your installation will be updated with those new packages. > > Perhaps the Cygwin/XFree86 User Guide could be modified to make > sure telnet > and ssh get included in the installation the first time. It > currently tells > people to leave the default settings alone but the default does > not include > telnet. > > Phil Burk > > > > > >
RE: missing telnet, solution
> -Original Message- > From: mstucky5 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 10:10 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: missing telnet, solution > > > This whole thread got me thinking about possible ways > to avoid this "xxx is missing" problem... > > I thought that I'd throw an idea out for discussion... > > Would it make sense to have setup install a dummy > script for some of the common utilities and then > overwrite that script with the actual utility if > it is selected from the gui as it should be? In debian, there is a package that will do this - I think it that when a binary is not found it queries dpkg to see if a package that can provide it exists. Anyway, I think that an _automated_ approach to this could be quite useful, but not a manual one. (I realise that you didn't imply either, I'm simply getting there first :}). Rob
Re: missing telnet, solution
This whole thread got me thinking about possible ways to avoid this "xxx is missing" problem... I thought that I'd throw an idea out for discussion... Would it make sense to have setup install a dummy script for some of the common utilities and then overwrite that script with the actual utility if it is selected from the gui as it should be? Assume that the missing utility is called "ttt.exe" Have setup create /bin/missing and link "ttt.exe" to missing ln -s /bin/missing /bin/telnet.exe stuckymb [547] > ls -l missing ttt.exe -rwxr-xr-x1 stuckymb mygroup 214 Mar 25 18:00 missing lrwxrwxrwx1 stuckymb mygroup94 Mar 25 17:58 ttt.exe -> missing stuckymb [548] > stuckymb [548] > stuckymb [548] > stuckymb [548] > cat missing #!/bin/sh echo "If you are seeing this message, it means that the" echo " " echo " $0" echo " " echo 'still needs to be selected from within "setup"' echo " " echo 'Please re-run "setup"' echo " " stuckymb [549] > stuckymb [549] > stuckymb [549] > stuckymb [549] > ttt.exe If you are seeing this message, it means that the ./ttt.exe still needs to be selected from within "setup" Please re-run "setup" When setup is re-run to download the actual ttt.exe the dummy ttt.exe could be deleted and then replaced with the correct executable. Just my 0.02 cents worth... --Mark - Original Message - From: "Christopher Faylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 9:46 PM Subject: Re: missing telnet, solution > On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 06:18:05PM +0100, Palic, Darko wrote: > >Hello Christopher, > > > >okay it is nice to follow the request of the users, but why isn't a > >selectbox available, there something like "basic/minimal, common/typical and > >complete" could be selected instead of changing the whole setup? It would > >help! > > What answer are you expecting? It's a volunteer project. We make > changes as time permits and as people are inclined. We thought the > current setup with categories would be an improvement and apparently it > wasn't. It never occurred to us that people wouldn't be able to figure > out that you could click on things and see packages to install. But, > that was the case. > > Once it became clear that there was a problem and that people didn't > like having to select things individually, I would have liked to see an > immediate resolution of the problem but it just didn't happen. It's not > like I can fire anyone for not improving setup for you. I'm just damn > grateful that Robert and others are spending time working on it at all. > > Anyway, the new, just released, version of setup has some improvements > for selecting whole categories. That should make things much easier. > > We're discussing other alternatives all of the time but the basic > problem is that we have a lot of people who just ask aggrieved questions > like the above or who repeat the same observations that have been made > countless times before, and very few people who are actually willing to > help make things better. > > If you want to contribute (and apparently you do), then setup.exe discussions > are happening in the cygwin-apps mailing lists. If you have further questions, > you should (after reviewing the mail archives there) send them there. > > cgf > > > I think the change you're referring to was that we added, at the request > > of many users, a minimal install. It's based on the debian "base" > > category, which does not include bzip2. The default installation is a > > really basic one and it's looking like we need to change that. > > > > Anyway, I'll try to keep in this in mind if we change something in the > > future that impacts Cygwin/XFree86. It never occurred to me that this > > would be an issue. >
Re: missing telnet, solution
On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 11:22:55PM -0800, Phil Burk wrote: >I don't understand why there has been so much resistance from this >group to making a couple lines of change to the docs. They are simply >out of date and could easily be corrected. Harold has already responded here so there is only one thing that I need to make clear: I'm not a Cygwin/XFree86 developer. I don't have anything to do with either the code or the documentation. So, any resistance you detected from me towards making documentation changes was 100% on target. Not my yob. cgf
RE: missing telnet, solution
Phil, I'll change the wording in that section of the User's Guide to reflect that not all Cygwin packages are selected by default. Thanks for pointing that out to me. Sorry, it gets a little rough around here sometimes because we don't have many contributors. :( Note, the update won't go in immediately, but it shouldn't take more than a few weeks. Harold > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Phil Burk > Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:23 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: missing telnet, solution > > > From: "Christopher Faylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wasn't. It never occurred to us that people wouldn't be able to figure > > out that you could click on things and see packages to install. But, > > that was the case. > > Give me a break. I'm not stupid. The documentation for Cygwin/XFree said > "All packages, downloaded size of 56.1 MiB as of 2001-04-19, are selected > for download by default; I do not recommend changing the list of > packages to > download unless you really know what you are doing:". This is on page: > >http://cygwin.com/xfree/docs/ug/setup-cygwin-downloading.html > > I just followed the docs and it didn't work because telnet was > missing. All > I am suggesting is that the documents be updated so that if people follow > them then they will be successful. I also suggested adding a line to the > Cygwin package list that says "You can use SETUP.EXE from the installer to > add packages from this list.". It was not obvious to me that the same > installer is used for installation and also for adding packages after > installation. > > I also publish free software so I appreciate the eforts that have > gone into > Cygwin and XFree86. But when people tell me that they have > problems with my > docs, then I try to correct them (the docs, not the people). I don't > understand why there has been so much resistance from this group > to making a > couple lines of change to the docs. They are simply out of date and could > easily be corrected. > > Sometimes things seem obvious to the developer but only because the > developer already knows them. It is possible that reasonably intelligent > people cannot read the developers mind and may need to read the docs > instead. > > Phil Burk > >
Re: missing telnet, solution
From: "Christopher Faylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wasn't. It never occurred to us that people wouldn't be able to figure > out that you could click on things and see packages to install. But, > that was the case. Give me a break. I'm not stupid. The documentation for Cygwin/XFree said "All packages, downloaded size of 56.1 MiB as of 2001-04-19, are selected for download by default; I do not recommend changing the list of packages to download unless you really know what you are doing:". This is on page: http://cygwin.com/xfree/docs/ug/setup-cygwin-downloading.html I just followed the docs and it didn't work because telnet was missing. All I am suggesting is that the documents be updated so that if people follow them then they will be successful. I also suggested adding a line to the Cygwin package list that says "You can use SETUP.EXE from the installer to add packages from this list.". It was not obvious to me that the same installer is used for installation and also for adding packages after installation. I also publish free software so I appreciate the eforts that have gone into Cygwin and XFree86. But when people tell me that they have problems with my docs, then I try to correct them (the docs, not the people). I don't understand why there has been so much resistance from this group to making a couple lines of change to the docs. They are simply out of date and could easily be corrected. Sometimes things seem obvious to the developer but only because the developer already knows them. It is possible that reasonably intelligent people cannot read the developers mind and may need to read the docs instead. Phil Burk
Re: missing telnet, solution
On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 06:18:05PM +0100, Palic, Darko wrote: >Hello Christopher, > >okay it is nice to follow the request of the users, but why isn't a >selectbox available, there something like "basic/minimal, common/typical and >complete" could be selected instead of changing the whole setup? It would >help! What answer are you expecting? It's a volunteer project. We make changes as time permits and as people are inclined. We thought the current setup with categories would be an improvement and apparently it wasn't. It never occurred to us that people wouldn't be able to figure out that you could click on things and see packages to install. But, that was the case. Once it became clear that there was a problem and that people didn't like having to select things individually, I would have liked to see an immediate resolution of the problem but it just didn't happen. It's not like I can fire anyone for not improving setup for you. I'm just damn grateful that Robert and others are spending time working on it at all. Anyway, the new, just released, version of setup has some improvements for selecting whole categories. That should make things much easier. We're discussing other alternatives all of the time but the basic problem is that we have a lot of people who just ask aggrieved questions like the above or who repeat the same observations that have been made countless times before, and very few people who are actually willing to help make things better. If you want to contribute (and apparently you do), then setup.exe discussions are happening in the cygwin-apps mailing lists. If you have further questions, you should (after reviewing the mail archives there) send them there. cgf > I think the change you're referring to was that we added, at the request > of many users, a minimal install. It's based on the debian "base" > category, which does not include bzip2. The default installation is a > really basic one and it's looking like we need to change that. > > Anyway, I'll try to keep in this in mind if we change something in the > future that impacts Cygwin/XFree86. It never occurred to me that this > would be an issue.
RE: missing telnet, solution
Hello Christopher, okay it is nice to follow the request of the users, but why isn't a selectbox available, there something like "basic/minimal, common/typical and complete" could be selected instead of changing the whole setup? It would help! best regards, Darko > I think the change you're referring to was that we added, at the request > of many users, a minimal install. It's based on the debian "base" > category, which does not include bzip2. The default installation is a > really basic one and it's looking like we need to change that. > > Anyway, I'll try to keep in this in mind if we change something in the > future that impacts Cygwin/XFree86. It never occurred to me that this > would be an issue. > > cgf >
Re: missing telnet, solution
On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:10:32PM -0500, Harold Hunt wrote: >You are referring to the process of "installing that which you wish to use". >I don't see any problem here. Ditto. >I can't update the User's Guide to say "install inetutils and ssh" because >Cygwin is always changes its mind about which packages to include in the >default installation (they dropped bzip2 awhile back) and I don't have the >time to follow their changes and continue to make updates accordingly. >Also, the user interface to the Cygwin installer keeps changing, so I don't >want to have to rewrite the instructions every time that happens. I think the change you're referring to was that we added, at the request of many users, a minimal install. It's based on the debian "base" category, which does not include bzip2. The default installation is a really basic one and it's looking like we need to change that. Anyway, I'll try to keep in this in mind if we change something in the future that impacts Cygwin/XFree86. It never occurred to me that this would be an issue. cgf
Re: missing telnet, solution
Hello Harold, > I will perhaps add a note that extra Cygwin packages may be selected and > installed by the user. That should at least get people to look at the list > of packages that they might want. Once I realized that telnet was missing, I knew I had to go get it. But I scoured the Cygwin FAQs and other resoures looking for info on how to download packages and couldn't find it. I found a list of packages but no links telling where to get them. There are detailed instruction on how to develop and contribute new packages, but not on how to download existing packages. Imagine that you do not know how and try to find that info on the Gygwin site. I finally figured out that SETUP.EXE not only installs Cygwin, but it is also used when adding new packages!!! This is only obvious in hindsight. It is an unusual procedure and trying it really did not occur to me until I saw a vague mention in a Cygwin forum. Maybe on the Gygwin site, here: http://cygwin.com/packages/ there could be a short message: "You can download and install these packages by running the SETUP.EXE program that you used to install Cygwin and selecting the desired package." I'm really just trying to be helpful, here. This simple step of re-running SETUP.EXE was not obvious to me and I am an experienced system programmer. THANKS! Phil
Re: missing telnet, solution
> I'm at a loss understanding why Cygwin/XFree86 would need to tell people > that ssh and telnet are required. Neither is needed for X applications. Many people use XWindows on a PC to communicate to remote Unix computers. This is very common for telecommuters. The Installation Guide tells you how to do this but the instructions do not work. http://cygwin.com/xfree/docs/ug/using-remote-apps.html They fails because these instructions do not tell you to download telnet: http://cygwin.com/xfree/docs/ug/setup-cygwin-downloading.html It says "All packages, downloaded size of 56.1 MiB as of 2001-04-19, are selected for download by default; I do not recommend changing the list of packages to download unless you really know what you are doing." But in my case, only some of the packages were selected by default. Perhaps SETUP.EXE has changed. So I had to go back and get telnet and ssh. Perhaps the instructions could say that IF you plan to use telnet or ssh you have to select them and then tell how. It would haved me several hours time. Thanks! Phil Burk
RE: missing telnet, solution
Phil, You are referring to the process of "installing that which you wish to use". I don't see any problem here. I can't update the User's Guide to say "install inetutils and ssh" because Cygwin is always changes its mind about which packages to include in the default installation (they dropped bzip2 awhile back) and I don't have the time to follow their changes and continue to make updates accordingly. Also, the user interface to the Cygwin installer keeps changing, so I don't want to have to rewrite the instructions every time that happens. Note that Cygwin/XFree86 works just fine without inetutils and ssh, so plenty of users out there will not need inetutils and ssh. I will perhaps add a note that extra Cygwin packages may be selected and installed by the user. That should at least get people to look at the list of packages that they might want. Harold > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Phil Burk > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:49 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: missing telnet, solution > > > I followed all the steps to install Cygwin/XFree from the user guide. > Everything worked great until I got to the part about telnet. It > was missing > from my installation. I spent about two hours looking over the Cygwin site > trying to figure out how to get and install telnet. I noticed in > this forum > that other folks had the same problem but no working solution was offered. > > I finally figured it out. Here's how: > > - re-run the SETUP.EXE program that you used to install Cygwin, > > - select "Install from Internet" option, > > - select same install directory as before, > > - choose a download site as before, > > - when you get a list of packages, click the '+' next to the > "Net" category, > > - select the "inetutils" package and the "openssh" package, > > - continue downloading. > > Your installation will be updated with those new packages. > > Perhaps the Cygwin/XFree86 User Guide could be modified to make > sure telnet > and ssh get included in the installation the first time. It > currently tells > people to leave the default settings alone but the default does > not include > telnet. > > Phil Burk > > > > > >
Re: missing telnet, solution
On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 08:48:41AM -0800, Phil Burk wrote: >Perhaps the Cygwin/XFree86 User Guide could be modified to make sure >telnet and ssh get included in the installation the first time. It >currently tells people to leave the default settings alone but the >default does not include telnet. I'm at a loss understanding why Cygwin/XFree86 would need to tell people that ssh and telnet are required. Neither is needed for X applications. cgf
