2:15 am, Eastern Time--The Election Train Wreck

[Tim May]

I just watched a group of punch drunk commission members debate 
whether to order a _manual recount_ of all ballots in Palm Beach 
County. They voted 2-1, and unless this is overturned (?), they will 
begin planning the recount effort on Monday.

The count of a sample of 1% of the votes took all of today, so the 
count of 100 times as many total ballots will presumably take on the 
order of 100 days. Perhaps they can farm it out to temps and 
secretaries and get it done in just several weeks.

They analyzed the "chads" and counted 33 additional votes for Gore, 
14 for Bush. So this would imply about 19 additional votes for Gore 
over Bush. Then, extrapolating to the full population, 1900 
additional votes for Gore over Bush (modulo statistical fluctuations).

Of course, the Republicans will have to call for a manual recount of 
Duval County and all of the other counties where the same statistical 
examination should turn up votes for THEM.

What a cluster fuck. Punch drunk, dazed burrowcrats triggering this 
train wreck.

I will not forget this week, and not forget watching this latest 
event live, as it happened. Kind of the the "moon landing" of 
political train wrecks.


--Tim May
-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

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Re: A secure voting protocol

[petro]

Mr. May said:
>At 4:19 PM -0800 11/11/00, petro wrote:
>>>  --
>>>At 03:11 PM 11/10/2000 -0800, Tim May wrote:
   Physical ballot voting has its problems, but at least people
   _understand_ the concept of marking a ballot, as opposed to
   "blinding the exponent of their elliptic curve function and then
   solving the discrete log problem for an n-out-of-m multi-round
   tournament."
>>>
>>>Ideally, we should organize an election so that the illiterate, 
>>>the stupid, and the drunk will generally fail to vote correctly. 
>>>Unfortunately someone would then issue the handy dandy automatic 
>>>party vote generator, and hand it out to the illiterate, the 
>>>stupid, and the drunk, adding a bottle of cheap wine when handing 
>>>it out to the drunk.
>>
>>  The easiest way to do this would be to have the ballot books 
>>only contain numbers, and the sample ballots mailed to each 
>>(allegedly) registered voter provide the mapping from name/issue to 
>>number.
>
>I did not write the paragraph you attributed to me (presumably 
>through not-so-careful snipping). Please be more careful. If 
>necessary, manually add a line like "James Donald said:"


Anyone who can read a Florida Ballot, and is the least 
familiar with how MUAs and Newsreaders work can tell that you wrote 
the part with the three (now four) angle brackets (>).

As to adding the  wrote: sometimes I remember, sometimes I 
forget. I am still human, and hence not perfect.
-- 
A quote from Petro's Archives:
**
"Despite almost every experience I've ever had with federal 
authority, I keep imagining its competence."
John Perry Barlow

Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins!

[George]

A prime example of machine counting being unreliable.

[New Mexico]

http://foxnews.com/election_night/111000/new_mexico.sml
#
#The county withdrew early-voting and absentee ballots Tuesday
#night after officials discovered a glitch in the computers used
#to tally votes. The machines would not read ballots carrying
#straight-party ticket votes that also included at least one vote
#for a candidate from another party, election officials said.
#
#The machines' supplier blamed the problem on how county officials
#programmed the machines.

Re: A secure voting protocol

[Tim May]

At 4:19 PM -0800 11/11/00, petro wrote:
>> --
>>At 03:11 PM 11/10/2000 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>>>  Physical ballot voting has its problems, but at least people
>>>  _understand_ the concept of marking a ballot, as opposed to
>>>  "blinding the exponent of their elliptic curve function and then
>>>  solving the discrete log problem for an n-out-of-m multi-round
>>>  tournament."
>>
>>Ideally, we should organize an election so that the illiterate, the 
>>stupid, and the drunk will generally fail to vote correctly. 
>>Unfortunately someone would then issue the handy dandy automatic 
>>party vote generator, and hand it out to the illiterate, the 
>>stupid, and the drunk, adding a bottle of cheap wine when handing 
>>it out to the drunk.
>
>   The easiest way to do this would be to have the ballot books 
>only contain numbers, and the sample ballots mailed to each 
>(allegedly) registered voter provide the mapping from name/issue to 
>number.

I did not write the paragraph you attributed to me (presumably 
through not-so-careful snipping). Please be more careful. If 
necessary, manually add a line like "James Donald said:"


--Tim May
-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins!

[George]

Declan, powerful Media Mogul, wrote:
#George seems to have an unusual fixation on Vulis...

THAT'S NOT FUNNY.


White Supremacist Tim "I'd like to see a race riot" May Moroned:
#I trust more in machines for counting machine ballots than I trust in
#local politicians counting machine ballots.

The Republican and Democratic members of the card examiners
have agreed on objective standards.

o if any corner of the "chad" is broken, then it is a choice.
o merely indented or even "pregnant" (sunshine) are not a choice

As far as I know, two opposing choices is still an invalidated ballot


White Supremacist Tim "I'd like to see a race riot" May Moroned:
#The Democrat Party is just trying to steal the election.

You mean Dubya is, by virtue of going into federal court
to stop a state recount that is provided for under Florida law.

White Supremacist Tim "I'd like to see a race riot" May Moroned:
#Blood in the street is about to flow.

AH HA HA HA HA! You and your "Turner Diaries" wet dreams.

White Supremacist Tim "I'd like to see a race riot" May Moroned:
#No wonder the Democrat Party has been trying so hard to disarm us.

No wondering about your brain: it's left the planet.
Hey, Tim, put your wife on the list so we can talk
to the rational one.

If I ever find out your real name and where you live,
I'm going to come over and deal with you.

I'm going to lick you.
Lick, Lick, Lick, Slobber, Lickity-lick-lick-lick.
Yum, stupid white trash.

Fwd: Candidates' Websites Blocked by CyberPatrol

[Tim May]

Wow, check this out.  Not surprising, in retrospect. 

Teacher: "Johnny, why didn't you finish your research report on that 
candidate and his views?"

Johnny: "The library computer blocked me."

Teacher: "It's to save the children."


> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Number Six)
> Subject: Candidates' Websites Blocked by CyberPatrol
> Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:16:57 GMT
> Newsgroups: misc.survivalism,alt.survival
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> http://peacefire.org/blind-ballots/
> 
> Candidates' Websites Blocked by CyberPatrol, N2H2 
> 
> It turns out that politicians' websites are being blocked in schools
> and libraries as inappropriate for viewing by children (and, in many
> cases, adults). The report, "Blind Ballots", takes a look at two dozen
> candidates whose campaigns have been censored in our public schools
> and libraries. One of the products blocks pretty equally across the
> political spectrum; the other takes a big chunk out of Republicans,
> Libertarians and conservative third parties. One Republican candidate
> (so far) has changed his position on filters because of this report. 
>

-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

Re: Greetins from ZOG-occupied Palestine

[petro]

>At 08:34 PM 11/10/00 -0600, Phaedrus wrote:
>>
>>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>>  Tim May, the heavily armed hate monger who refers to ZOG, and , his
>extreme
>>>  right wing malitia friends have missed there chance.
>
>   So is "malitia" a bunch of bad soldiers?

No, malicious.
-- 
A quote from Petro's Archives:
**
"Despite almost every experience I've ever had with federal 
authority, I keep imagining its competence."
John Perry Barlow

Re: Democrat FUD: "If our lead does not mount, you must re-count!"

[Tim May]

At 1:04 PM -0800 11/11/00, Tim May wrote:
>At 11:55 AM -0800 11/11/00, Tim May wrote:
>>
>>* Stage Four of the FUD Campaign, current: "We demand a manual recount. Two
>
>* Stage 4.5 of the FUD Campaign, Saturday afternoon: "It's the 
>chads, the little pieces of paper punched out but hanging by a 
>thread." (How appropriate: "hanging by a thread") The Democrats are 
>demanding that ballots marked as spoiled be checked to see if they 
>have "indentations" or "chads."
>
>Of course, how these indentations or chads have anything to do with 
>Democrats vs. Republicans is unclear...
>
>Except that the Democrat Party is requesting the recounts in heavily 
>Democrat precincts!

* Stage 4.6 of the FUD Campaign, late Saturday afternoon: It was just 
revealed on Fox News that the northern Florida county with the 20,000 
spoiled ballots is Duval County and that there WILL NOT BE A RECOUNT 
of the ballots because the 72-hour time limit for challenging the 
count has passed.

(This was from the female director/whatever of the Elections 
Commission in Duval County, who said that the ballots could not be 
subject to the same kind of inspection being seen in the other 
counties to the south because the 72-hour time limit had just 
passed)

In other words, the Democrats are getting a third count in 
heavily-Democrat counties because they hustled into town with their 
lawyers and filed at least 8 lawsuits and screamed and squawked that 
their peoples had been "discriminated against." Though they've 
changed the grounds for their complaints several times--see earlier 
FUD points--this "held the door open" for the manual scrutiny of the 
"chads" and "indentations" and "voter intent" we're now seeing in the 
precincts the Democrats are having re-re-counted.

The Republicans, on the other hand, took the results as a done deal 
and thus have let the 72-hour deadline in Duval County (and other 
such counties, one presumes) pass.

"You snooze, you lose."

Ah, America.  Where the true victors are lawyers. And where the 
Democrats will likely steal the election by getting "a third bite of 
the apple."

Fucked up, yes.


--Tim May
-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

Re: Democrat FUD: "If our lead does not mount, you must re-count!"

[Tim May]

At 11:55 AM -0800 11/11/00, Tim May wrote:
>
>* Stage Four of the FUD Campaign, current: "We demand a manual 
>recount. Two counts, the first one and then the state-mandated 
>machine recount, are not enough. We are certain that if certain 
>counties are counted again, and again, that the extra votes we need 
>will be found."
>
>[As Jesse Jackson and Johnnie Cockroach might singsong: "If our lead 
>does not mount, you must re-count!']


* Stage 4.5 of the FUD Campaign, Saturday afternoon: "It's the chads, 
the little pieces of paper punched out but hanging by a thread." (How 
appropriate: "hanging by a thread") The Democrats are demanding that 
ballots marked as spoiled be checked to see if they have 
"indentations" or "chads."

Of course, how these indentations or chads have anything to do with 
Democrats vs. Republicans is unclear...

Except that the Democrat Party is requesting the recounts in heavily 
Democrat precincts!

They understand that by recounting, and recounting, and then 
switching to manual analysis of ballots IN DEMOCRAT-LEANING PRECINCTS 
they can probably pick up some additional votes for Gore. Simple 
statistics.

The obvious point is that such additional vacuum-cleaning should not 
be allowed. And if it is allowed in a single precinct, absent some 
strong evidence that that precinct had precinct-specific "chad 
problems" with its machines, then ALL precincts should be counted in 
an identical fashion.

A daunting, and expensive, and time-consuming process. A manual 
inspection of six million ballots will take several weeks.

Which may be the Gore strategy, ironically. Get the process in 
Florida so bogged-down that Florida is left out of the Electoral 
College process on December 18th. According to many legal scholars, 
the election would then hinge on a majority of those who were at the 
EC meeting, even if Florida were to be absent. Advantage: Gore.

Fucked up, yes.

--Tim May

-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

Re: Wired article on Jim Bell, links to search warrant and photo

[Declan McCullagh]

BTW I tried to get a copy of Bell's case file (including the search
warrant affidavit that Jeff Gordon & co would have had to swear out)
but as of midweek it was still sealed.

-Declan

Re: Declan on Bell

[Declan McCullagh]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 11:54:44AM -0800, Eric Cordian wrote:
> So I repeat my question.  Does Jim Bell, aside from signing a statement
> prepared for him by the government, in order to avoid a much longer
> sentence, acknowlege annoying the IRS with unpleasant-smelling chemical
> substances?  A "yes" or "no" will suffice.

Eric, I'm not sure, and I don't feel like wasting my Saturday
afternoon doing research with little benefit. If you'd actually like
to find out the answer instead of wrangling here, you might want to
look at the documents that are online.

Or ask Jim yourself.

-Declan

Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins!

[Declan McCullagh]

On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 10:39:31PM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 05:58:11PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> I vote you are hereby ex-communicated from the Cypherpunks club,
> >> joining Dimitry Vulis.
> 
> At 07:05 PM 11/9/00 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >Huh? Tim has been posting such articles for years. You weren't around
> >for the Y2K discussions.
> 
> George, you've got to remember not to mess with Winston Smith.
> Unlike some people who need killing, yer just gonna get unpersoned

Besides, George seems to have an unusual fixation on Vulis...

-Declan

Re: Declan on Bell

[Tim May]

At 11:54 AM -0800 11/11/00, Eric Cordian wrote:
>Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>>  Bell was not coerced into taking the plea agreement; if
>>  anything, he seems to have more mental resources to fight
>>  the system than other defendants I have interviewed.
>
>Unless the plea agreement specifies a sentence equal to the upper range
>that would likely be applied after a conviction was won, it is not
>difficult to infer that the plea agreement is being signed in order to
>lock-in a shorter sentence, with the accuracy of the government's account
>of the alleged misdeeds being a lesser consideration.
>
>Most plea bargaining, by its very nature, is coercion plain and simple.
>
>Just as the common practice of cutting deals in return for testimony the
>prosecution wants, or deferring sentencing until such testimony has been
>provided, results in coerced testimony.

And, as all of us have commented on many times, there are so many 
things which are crimes, so many piled-on charges, that Bell could 
have been facing 20 years in prison for his minor, minor 
transgressions.

Hilary takes bribes and runs a $1000 investment up to $100,000 with 
inside knowledge. Hilary also hides evidence in a criminal 
investigation, somewhere in the _private quarters_ of the White 
House. It mysteriously shows up, part of it, three years later, on a 
table in the private quarters. And so on. No charges filed. The fix 
was in.

Meanwhile, Jim Bell keeps getting raided, busted, and charged with 
various bullshit minor transgressions.

(As for advocating murder, Hilary was overheard on election night at 
a party, railing against Ralph Nader for doing what he did. Fine. But 
she was also overheard saying that "we ought to just have him 
killed."--I heard this on one of the many talk shows I was listening 
to, possibly it was Tim Russert or J.D. Haworth on "Imus." Not sure.)

As a felon, I appreciate that a raid on my house could probably net 
enough b.s. evidence to give a rigged court the excuse to sentence me 
to 20 years and fine me a few million bucks. So many things are now 
illegal that a prosecutor can "indict a ham sandwich," as the saying 
goes. And then use the threat of 20 years in prison to coerce nearly 
any kind of plea bargain, surveillance-state parole, etc.

(The whole parole system is another can of worms. Can't have guns, 
can't use a computer, can't associate with thought criminals, can't 
read controversial material, probation officer can enter home at any 
time, various other police state measures. All done because the 
courts have stacked the deck.)

The American legal system is notoriously corrupt. Sure, most of the 
things which are "illegal" are never actually prosecuted: they are 
there as bargaining chips to get plea agreements so that prosecutors 
can get convictions on their scorecards and campaign posters.

Police states _like_ it when there are tens of thousands of laws on the books.

Little wonder the government seeks to disarm us.


--Tim May
-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

Re: Looking for statistically-unlikely surges in absentee ballots

[Declan McCullagh]

At 11:36 11/11/2000 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>So, yes, I would say that there must obviously be other language on this. 
>If not, then you could have the journalistic scoop of the century, er, for 
>a few

Not this time. Some additional research says that the federal "Uniformed 
and Overseas Citizens Voting Act" requires states to take special 
procedures for voters who are in the military overseas or:

>a person who resides outside the United States and is qualified to vote in 
>the last place in which the person was domiciled before leaving the United 
>States; or
>a person who resides outside the United States and (but for such 
>residence) would be qualified to vote in the last place in which the 
>person was domiciled before leaving the United States.

Tourists abroad during that time need not apply.

Further, state law anticipates this:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0101/SEC62.HTM&Title=->2000->Ch0101->Section%2062
As soon as the remainder of the absentee ballots are printed, the 
supervisor shall provide an absentee ballot to each elector by whom a 
request for that ballot has been made by one of the following means:... By 
forwardable mail to voters who are entitled to vote by absentee ballot 
under the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Voting Act.

-Declan

Re: Response to false statements about Zero-Knowledge

[Declan McCullagh]

Austin,

Thanks for your note. I respect what you're trying to do at ZKS. I think 
that if ZKS succeeds, the world will be a better place. Further, I have a 
tremendous deal of respect for some of the very excellent people you have 
hired.

But wishing something to be true does not make it so. My statement about 
ZKS' sluggish Freedom sales is based on extensive conversations over the 
last year with folks in this industry, web searches to see how many ZKS 
nyms appear to be in use, ancedotal information, and conversations with 
other ZKS employees.

As Greg says below, I was writing an article with 
less-than-perfectly-complete information, but information that I have and 
had every reason to believe is accurate. You did nothing to refute that 
belief, and saying "[we are] pleased with our results for Freedom" is an 
analytically and semantically null statement. The Subject: line of your 
message complains about "false statements," but you offer nothing by way of 
identification and refutation.

As you say, you did send a note to my Wired editor demanding a retraction. 
You received a response yesterday saying that Wired identified no errors of 
fact in my article and you were welcome to submit a letter to the editor. I 
hope you will, and I wish you luck at ZKS.

Yours,
Declan


At 15:10 11/10/2000 -0800, Greg Broiles wrote:
>On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 02:56:03PM -0500, Austin Hill wrote:
> >
> > First to set the record straight, Declan's claim that our software sales
> > have been poor is completely baseless. He has reported this as fact when
> > during my interview with him I clearly stated that we are pleased with our
> > results for Freedom and are seeing substantial growth, so much that we are
> > still hiring more engineers (adding to the already 100 we have working on
> > it) and adding more features and improvements to our consumer privacy
> > product.
>
>This is a non sequitur - the facts that "ZKS is happy with its sales" and
>"ZKS is hiring more engineers" are unrelated to Declan's evaluation of
>the available evidence regarding ZKS' sales. In the absence of numbers
>from ZKS - which would be the best source of that information, if it
>were available - people wanting to evaluate ZKS and its business must
>look at less helpful information, which will likely include anecdotal
>accounts which you dismiss.
>
>Now, if the question before us were "Are the shareholders and employees
>of ZKS happy with their sales?" or "Are ZKS' sales reasonably within
>the projections in their business plan?" or "Is ZKS close to
>bankruptcy?", then the facts and feelings you mention above would be
>responsive. Those are not, however, the questions raised about ZKS,
>so your remarks don't seem to be responsive.
>
>It doesn't seem reasonable for you to complain about Declan writing
>an article based on incomplete information, but to refuse to provide
>that information so that the article could be based on better data.
>I get the impression that you would prefer the article not appear
>at all - which is a reasonable thing to wish for, but not a reasonable
>thing to expect. If ZKS wants press, it will have to take the bad
>(or the inconvenient) along with the good.
>
> > Because we as a private company refuse to provide Declan with actual 
> sales &
> > revenue numbers he has persisted in reporting that this is because of poor
> > software sales, based on what he described as anecdotal evidence that 
> he has
> > observed in the cypherpunk community.
> >
> > Declan fails to mention that Freedom was never targeted toward Cypherpunks;
> > our goal was to incorporate Cypherpunk-level cryptography and philosophies
> > into a privacy tool that would empower the average Internet user to manage
> > their privacy online. Cypherpunks can build privacy tools for themselves;
> > our target market for Freedom is consumers who are concerned with their
> > privacy.
>
>Sure - cypherpunks are a very small market, so it would be very difficult for
>even a small business to survive on cypherpunk sales alone.
>
>However, that doesn't mean that cypherpunk purchases and evaluations are
>unimportant, or can be dismissed.
>
>High tech marketing people discuss a "technology adoption life cycle" -
>Geoffrey Moore writes about this (in _Crossing the Chasm_, et al) but
>I don't know if he was the first person to do so.
>
>Briefly, this model suggests that new products or technology are adopted
>at a rate which describes a bell curve - at the left edge, there's a
>initially small adoption rate which represents the activity of
>"innovators", people who actively seek out new technologies and products,
>and who frequently provide valuable unofficial marketing and support
>for new products. Moving to the right, we find the "early adopters",
>who are not technologists themselves (versus the innovators, who are)
>but are willing to risk adoption of a technology or product not proven
>on a wide scale if they see a strong benefit. Moving further to the
>righ

Re: Looking for statistically-unlikely surges in absentee ballots

[Tim May]

At 2:20 PM -0500 11/11/00, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 12:47:45PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
>>  I just heard Karen Hughes of the Bush Campaign express concern about
>>  the status of absentee ballots being mailed AFTER the outcome of the
>>  election was shown to be so close. In particular, after the legal
>>  cut-off date.
>
>Here's a link to the Florida law on absentee ballots:
>
>---
>http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0101/SEC67.HTM&Title=->2000->Ch0101->Section%2067
>
>(1) The supervisor of elections shall safely keep in his or her office
>any envelopes received containing marked ballots of absent electors,
>and he or she shall, before the canvassing of the election returns,
>deliver the envelopes to the county canvassing board along with his or
>her file or list kept regarding said ballots.
>
>(2) All marked absent electors' ballots to be counted must be received
>by the supervisor by 7 p.m. the day of the election. All ballots
>received thereafter shall be marked with the time and date of receipt
>and filed in the supervisor's office.
>---
>
>I must be missing something. Sure looks like the deadline was Tuesday,
>with perhaps an exemption for overseas ballots elsewhere in the law?

There are many, many news reports about November 17th, this coming 
Friday, being the deadline for all absentee ballots. This from 
election officials, state legislators, reporters, legal scholars, etc.

So, yes, I would say that there must obviously be other language on 
this. If not, then you could have the journalistic scoop of the 
century, er, for a few days, until bigger bombshells fall.

And this is the same situation, more or less, in other states. 
Language about ballot envelopes being _postmarked_ on or before 
Election Day.


--Tim May
-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

Public Key Infrastructure: An Artifact...

[R. A. Hettinga]

http://www.anu.edu.au/people/Roger.Clarke/II/PKIMisFit.html


Public Key Infrastructure: An Artifact Ill-Fitted to the Needs of the
Information Society

Abstract

It has been conventional wisdom that, for e-commerce to fulfill its
potential, each party to a transaction must be confident in the identity of
the others. Digital signature technology, based on public key cryptography,
has been claimed as the means whereby this can be achieved. Digital
signatures do little, however, unless a substantial infrastructure is in
place to provide a basis for believing that the signature means something
of significance to the relying party.

Conventional, hierarchical PKI, built around the ISO standard X.509, has
been, and will continue to be, a substantial failure. This paper examines
that form of PKI architecture, and concludes that it is a very poor fit to
the real needs of cyberspace participants. The reasons are its inherently
hierarchical and authoritarian nature, the unreasonable presumptions it
makes about the security of private keys, a range of other technical
defects, confusions about what it is that a certificate actually
authenticates, and its inherent privacy-invasiveness. Alternatives are
identified.
-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: Declan on Bell

[Greg Broiles]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 09:40:34AM -0800, Eric Cordian wrote:
> 
> What were the chemicals in question?  Does Bell, outside of documents the
> government makes him sign, claim to have made the IRS doormat smell bad?

If I remember correctly, the substance in question is "mercaptan", and it
is used as an additive to natural gas to make gas leaks distinctive and
noticeable.  

I don't remember whether or not Jim has taken credit for the stink-bombing
in a non-coercive environment. 

--
Greg Broiles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PO Box 897
Oakland CA 94604

Re: Greetins from ZOG-occupied Palestine

[Declan McCullagh]

On Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 09:05:54AM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> Hilarious. Things are falling apart better and with more acrimony 
> than I'd hoped.
[...snip...]
> And so it goes, with recounts, judicial adjustments, do overs, and 
> other such things requested in dozens, then hundreds, then thousands 
> of counties.

As much as I'd appreciate, purely from the perspective of continued
amusement, this perpetual election to continue, I suspect it won't.

At least some Dems are publicly telling Al to back down:
http://www.perpetualelection.com/article.pl?sid=00/11/11/090229

If Al's stated litigiousness becomes perceived as a liability, we
might see a kind of trip from Capitol Hill to the Naval Observatory to
tell Al enough is enough. The irony is that one of the senators most
tempermentally likely to do so is, of course, the Dem VP candidate.

-Declan

Re: A secure voting protocol

[James A. Donald]

 --
At 03:11 PM 11/10/2000 -0800, Tim May wrote:
 > Physical ballot voting has its problems, but at least people
 > _understand_ the concept of marking a ballot, as opposed to
 > "blinding the exponent of their elliptic curve function and then
 > solving the discrete log problem for an n-out-of-m multi-round
 > tournament."

Ideally, we should organize an election so that the illiterate, the stupid, 
and the drunk will generally fail to vote correctly.  Unfortunately someone 
would then issue the handy dandy automatic party vote generator, and hand 
it out to the illiterate, the stupid, and the drunk, adding a bottle of 
cheap wine when handing it out to the drunk.

 --digsig
  James A. Donald
  6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
  KwZlt9KCijOCzrhw3QZ/cuaemiOw53HCV/PevL0V
  4ovZu0o0N7DYZPyCzqgtAMc88qwb/ne5KZ7U4x/6s

Re: Declan on Bell

[Declan McCullagh]

Eric,

I invite folks to read the full article at:
http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,40102,00.html
http://www.cluebot.com/article.pl?sid=00/11/11/101218&mode=nested

I'm not taking a position on Bell's case. I do need to tell my readers
why was locked up earlier, and that seemed a reasonable way to do it.
Bell was not coerced into taking the plea agreement; if anything, he
seems to have more mental resources to fight the system than other
defendants I have interviewed.

-Declan

On Sat, Nov 11, 2000 at 09:40:34AM -0800, Eric Cordian wrote:
> In a Wired News article, Declan reports:
> 
> "In Bell's 1997, plea agreement, he admitted to owning chemicals that
>  could be used to produce Sarin gas and to stink-bombing the carpet
>  outside an IRS office."
> 
> Yeah, and I own chemicals for making chlorine gas.  Sodium hypochlorite
> solution, and sodium bisulphate.  I use these "dangerous" chemicals when I
> do my laundry, and when I clean my bathroom.
> 
> I think "chemicals that could be used to produce..." is pretty sleezy
> journalism, which could describe virtually anything.  I think using the
> word "admitted" in describing a plea bargain taken in lieu of a much
> longer prison sentence is also pretty sleezy journalism.
> 
> What were the chemicals in question?  Does Bell, outside of documents the
> government makes him sign, claim to have made the IRS doormat smell bad?
> 
> Does anyone with a clue think nitric acid is a ominous chemical for a
> chemist to own?
> 
> I'm really getting tired of Jim Bell articles whose tone suggests that
> despite the egregious mistreatment of Mr. Bell, the government apprehended
> him just in the nick of time, before he killed millions with homemade
> weapons of mass destruction.
> 
> Bell's Common Law Court was political theatre, his Assassination Politics
> essays satirical commentary on political accountability, and his
> documentation of smart-assed IRS employees consumer activism.  Aside from
> not giving his government-issued Social Security number to an employer, 
> the entire compendium of alleged Jim Bell crimes is little more than 
> one of IRS Agent Jeff Gordon's more extreme masturbation fantasies.
> 
> --  
> Eric Michael Cordian 0+
> O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
> "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

Re: Looking for statistically-unlikely surges in absentee ballots

[Declan McCullagh]

On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 12:47:45PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> I just heard Karen Hughes of the Bush Campaign express concern about 
> the status of absentee ballots being mailed AFTER the outcome of the 
> election was shown to be so close. In particular, after the legal 
> cut-off date.

Here's a link to the Florida law on absentee ballots:

---
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0101/SEC67.HTM&Title=->2000->Ch0101->Section%2067

(1) The supervisor of elections shall safely keep in his or her office
any envelopes received containing marked ballots of absent electors,
and he or she shall, before the canvassing of the election returns,
deliver the envelopes to the county canvassing board along with his or
her file or list kept regarding said ballots.

(2) All marked absent electors' ballots to be counted must be received
by the supervisor by 7 p.m. the day of the election. All ballots
received thereafter shall be marked with the time and date of receipt
and filed in the supervisor's office.
---

I must be missing something. Sure looks like the deadline was Tuesday,
with perhaps an exemption for overseas ballots elsewhere in the law?

-Declan

Re: Paper re privacy law, wiretaps

[Declan McCullagh]

Also see:

http://www.cluebot.com/article.pl?sid=00/11/10/0028217&mode=nested

On this topic.

-Declan

On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 11:52:49AM -0800, Greg Broiles wrote:
> An ISP trade organization has commissioned a paper detailing the
> legal basis (or lack thereof) for law enforcement requests to service
> providers for access to users' communications. The paper is 
> available online at ; I wasn't
> able to find a text/html version.
> 
> --
> Greg Broiles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> PO Box 897
> Oakland CA 94604
> 

Declan on Bell

[Eric Cordian]

In a Wired News article, Declan reports:

"In Bell's 1997, plea agreement, he admitted to owning chemicals that
 could be used to produce Sarin gas and to stink-bombing the carpet
 outside an IRS office."

Yeah, and I own chemicals for making chlorine gas.  Sodium hypochlorite
solution, and sodium bisulphate.  I use these "dangerous" chemicals when I
do my laundry, and when I clean my bathroom.

I think "chemicals that could be used to produce..." is pretty sleezy
journalism, which could describe virtually anything.  I think using the
word "admitted" in describing a plea bargain taken in lieu of a much
longer prison sentence is also pretty sleezy journalism.

What were the chemicals in question?  Does Bell, outside of documents the
government makes him sign, claim to have made the IRS doormat smell bad?

Does anyone with a clue think nitric acid is a ominous chemical for a
chemist to own?

I'm really getting tired of Jim Bell articles whose tone suggests that
despite the egregious mistreatment of Mr. Bell, the government apprehended
him just in the nick of time, before he killed millions with homemade
weapons of mass destruction.

Bell's Common Law Court was political theatre, his Assassination Politics
essays satirical commentary on political accountability, and his
documentation of smart-assed IRS employees consumer activism.  Aside from
not giving his government-issued Social Security number to an employer, 
the entire compendium of alleged Jim Bell crimes is little more than 
one of IRS Agent Jeff Gordon's more extreme masturbation fantasies.

--  
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

Re: Greetins from ZOG-occupied Palestine

[Tim May]

At 1:19 AM -0800 11/11/00, Bill Stewart wrote:
>At 08:34 PM 11/10/00 -0600, Phaedrus wrote:
>
>  >actually, since ballots were supposed to be postmarked two days ago,
>>killing you now wouldn't help (even if I were for it, which I'm not,
>>personally) unless something very bad were going on
>
>Yup.  It's now in the hands of disgruntled Postal Workers.
>
>(And apparently there _has_ been a certain amount of malfeasance
>in handling the mail ballots, though it's not clear the P.O. were
>directly involved.And the Postmaster General's on the
>succession list, at least in the 1947 version.)

Speaking of malfeasance in handling the mailed ballots, I heard a 
Democrat spinmeister saying last night that foreign consulates can 
advise their local Americans that they can "sign an affidavit saying 
they tried to get a November 7th postmark but were unable to do so." 
He said: "Americans in other countries can still send in their 
ballots with a signed affidavit attesting that they had been unable 
to get a November 7th postmark."

So, those FedExed ballots from Kosovo or Israel or China may not have 
been sent until...today.

Hilarious. Things are falling apart better and with more acrimony 
than I'd hoped.

Republicans are threatening to demand a recount of 22,000 (yes, more 
than in Palm Beach County) uncounted/spoiled ballots in a northern 
Florida county which went 60,000-to-40,000 for Bush over Gore. They 
expect that if these odds hold up, as expected, that Bush could pick 
up thousands of votes in this heavily Republican county.

And so it goes, with recounts, judicial adjustments, do overs, and 
other such things requested in dozens, then hundreds, then thousands 
of counties.


--Tim May
-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins!

[George]

FoxNewsChannel has announced George Dubya Bush will
make a pre-emptive court strike by challenging
manual recounts. This, following warning Gore not
to challenge results in court.

These recounts are provided by state law, and are
not being done for any court.

Bush's objection is that people are subject to
corruption, unlike tabulating devices.

Dubya's new motto: "I trust in machines, not people."

Re: Greetins from ZOG-occupied Palestine

[Bill Stewart]

At 08:34 PM 11/10/00 -0600, Phaedrus wrote:
>
>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Tim May, the heavily armed hate monger who refers to ZOG, and , his
extreme 
>> right wing malitia friends have missed there chance.

So is "malitia" a bunch of bad soldiers?

>> Certainly the 400 of us needed killing before we influence the American 
>> Presidential election.
>
>actually, since ballots were supposed to be postmarked two days ago,
>killing you now wouldn't help (even if I were for it, which I'm not,
>personally) unless something very bad were going on

Yup.  It's now in the hands of disgruntled Postal Workers.

(And apparently there _has_ been a certain amount of malfeasance
in handling the mail ballots, though it's not clear the P.O. were
directly involved.And the Postmaster General's on the
succession list, at least in the 1947 version.)
Thanks! 
Bill
Bill Stewart, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

Re: A secure voting protocol

[Bill Stewart]

At 05:47 AM 11/10/00 -0600, Jim Burnes wrote:
>I envision a day (background music swelling and eyes tearing slightly --
>an obvious Oscar moment) when it matters little who the President-elect is, 
>because DC is bound and emasculated by its original constitutional chains.
>The day when the Pres has little more power than the Queen Mother.

Somebody buy that man a beer!

>That should be an easier problem to solve than getting people to accept
>the validity of exotic crypto voting protocols.

Yup.


Thanks! 
Bill
Bill Stewart, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

Re: Re: A successful lawsuit means Gore wins!

[Bill Stewart]

At 03:24 PM 11/10/00 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>
>On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Trei, Peter wrote:
>> This is covered by the Presidential Succession Act of 1947. See
>> http://www.greatsource.com/amgov/almanac/documents/key/1947_psa_1.html
>
>Actualy it isn't. It's covered by the 20th amendment, section 3.

The 20th Amendment was ratified in 1933.  Therefore the 1947 law
implements the " Congress may by law provide for the case" part of the 20th.
(Unfortunately, the Postmaster General is fairly high up the list :-)
The 20th does say that Congress can do whatever they want about it,
so they could easily supersede the 1947 act.  Anyway, Al Haig's in charge.

>Looks to me like Congress could leave Bill in office until this mess is
>over. Like I said, is this a new way to win a 3rd term?

By the 23rd Amendment ("FDR Reoccurrance Prevention Amendment"),
he can't be _elected_ to win a 3rd term - but that doesn't mean he
can't be appointed, though    What a bad idea that would be

In general, the 23rd trumps previous amendments, as any newer law
supersedes the older one, but it's not clear there's a conflict.

Thanks! 
Bill
Bill Stewart, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

Re: A very brief politcal rant

[petro]

>>  It's called "Straight Party", and IIRC it is a box on the
>>Missouri ballots. I *know* it was on the Illinois ballots. Saves dead
>>people time you understand, they only have a limited amount of time.
>
>They removed it from the Illinois ballots 4 years ago.  It now takes me 10
>times longer to vote.

I voted in Illinois 4 years ago, and I remember seeing it.

Then again, I only noticed it in passing, because if you 
voted straight party libertarian, you didn't get to vote against the 
incumbents in the races where there was no libertarian.
-- 
A quote from Petro's Archives:
**
"Despite almost every experience I've ever had with federal 
authority, I keep imagining its competence."
John Perry Barlow