Re: new idea for random number generation

[Steve Kinney]

On 08/03/2017 02:54 PM, \0xDynamite wrote:
> Speaking of cryptography (harhar), I was contemplating an idea to
> generate random streams of random numbers using chaos theory (not the
> first), specifically the logistic equation [3.5x(1-x)], when I came
> across the argument (http://www.cs.utsa.edu/~wagner/laws/chaos.html)
> that such generators are "psuedo-random", but I don't think is true.
> 
> The equation is capable of producing an infinite stream of numbers
> that get more random as you continue to use the equation.  The amount
> of true randomness approaches the depth of your word size, but in
> theory you can create an implementation with arbitrary depth (say
> 1 bits).
> 
> Is this interesting to anyone?

Thing is, the output of an equation that takes one iteration's output as
input for the next round, etc. is 100% deterministic:  The same
equation, with same initial input, produces the same output every time.
Being unable to predict an iterated feedback function's 9 millionth
digit on its 9 millionth iteration by any means other than actually
iterating it 9 million times qualifies the function as "chaotic."

But chaos is not entropy:  Actually running an iterated function does
enable one to reconstruct the output stream perfectly, while in
cryptography "entropy" means completely unpredictable data that can not
be predicted or reproduced by any means other than recovering a physical
record of the data set in question.

Only physical sources can generate real entropy in this sense:  Decaying
isotopes, noise from a leaky diode, tumbling dice, snapshots of variable
hardware states in a computer (least significant n. digits of CPU
temperature, fan speed, keystroke intervals, etc.) do qualify as
entropy; the Mandlebrot set does not.

This does leave open the possibility of using a true random number (n.
bits of entropy) to seed an iterated function that will "inflate" that
number to any size desired - but no matter how cunning the algorithm,
those n. bits of entropy are all there is, and define the difficulty (or
otherwise) of brute force breaking resulting ciphertexts.

In cryptography, common sense is a major pitfall.  When I first got
interested in modern cryptography, I made the same mistake:  I was quite
sure that the Mandlebrot set would make a super-powerful cryptosystem
possible.  But alas... deterministic functions, however "chaotic" the
output, add no entropy to the initial input.

Math is my weakest subject, so I am indecently proud of having studied
the RSA cipher until I actually understood it well enough to trust it -
20 years ago.  My grand accomplishment was possible because RSA is
surprisingly simple, once presented and explained.  Today:  Don't ask
me, math is my weakest subject.

:o)











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Re: ***SPAM*** Re: House Judiciary Committee taps /r/The_Donald subreddit for Amended Resolution

[Razer]

On 08/03/2017 07:18 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 07:11:56PM -0700, Razer wrote:
>>
>> On 08/03/2017 07:05 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>>> Dunno, just a thought - either that or do as Razer did a few times
>>> and call for street shitter death squads to kill all the RAAAYCIIIS
>>> before they send out another meme or something and take down another
>>> (((indoctrination powerhouse))) like CNN.
>> Nazis. Hunt down and destroy all NAZIS.
> And so dear Razer, how, precisely, do you distinguish the difference
> between a RAAAYCIIIS and a NAZI, such that you then advocate for the
> death of that NAZI, and not for the death of that RAAAYCIIIS ?
>
> (Genuine question.)


Dude! There's so many more features that make a person a Nazi rather
than a (snigger) "Plain-Vanilla" racist.

For instance. Nazis, by definition, have a really perverse christian
(snigger) Identity, that excludes all other organized or non-organized
religions. and allows for the extermination (Vernichtung) of humans.

What WOULD the Zombie Jesus do?

Nazis are by definition fascists, and there's ... oh lets say 14,
defining traits
. Racism is only
corollary to those 14 in that Nazis believes White Christians are the
"Master Race", and black folks, like Jews and everyone else, are
untermenschen... Subhuman.

That's exactly why they aren't a viable form of human life. They
essentially self-exterminate by ticking EVERYONE off. Slaughtering them
makes for a healthier human gene pool overall.

Have a nice day.

Rr

Re: new idea for random number generation

[Zenaan Harkness]

> difference between /dev/random and /dev/urandomm,

Ah yes, /dev/urandomm - this is the meditative version of
/dev/urandom, specially designed to invoke the Omm Mah Nay Pad May
Hu chanting invocation.

The kernel devs were only a little reluctant to include this device -
but pending some constructive experimentation, should be in the 4.14
kernel.

Re: ***SPAM*** Re: House Judiciary Committee taps /r/The_Donald subreddit for Amended Resolution

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 07:11:56PM -0700, Razer wrote:
> 
> 
> On 08/03/2017 07:05 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > Dunno, just a thought - either that or do as Razer did a few times
> > and call for street shitter death squads to kill all the RAAAYCIIIS
> > before they send out another meme or something and take down another
> > (((indoctrination powerhouse))) like CNN.
> 
> Nazis. Hunt down and destroy all NAZIS.

And so dear Razer, how, precisely, do you distinguish the difference
between a RAAAYCIIIS and a NAZI, such that you then advocate for the
death of that NAZI, and not for the death of that RAAAYCIIIS ?

(Genuine question.)

Re: new idea for random number generation

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 01:54:06PM -0500, \0xDynamite wrote:
> Speaking of cryptography (harhar), I was contemplating an idea to
> generate random streams of random numbers using chaos theory (not the
> first), specifically the logistic equation [3.5x(1-x)], when I came
> across the argument (http://www.cs.utsa.edu/~wagner/laws/chaos.html)
> that such generators are "psuedo-random", but I don't think is true.
> 
> The equation is capable of producing an infinite stream of numbers
> that get more random as you continue to use the equation.  The amount
> of true randomness approaches the depth of your word size, but in
> theory you can create an implementation with arbitrary depth (say
> 1 bits).
> 
> Is this interesting to anyone?

It's 100% deterministic still, since it's nothing but a deterministic
algorithm driving the "appearance of" random output - if you know the
algo, you know the output, simple as that.

Easy mistake to make - you're conflating infinite variation, with
infinite randomness. And yes there's a bit of the 100 monkeys tapping
away at a keyboard in the thought.

And to make it even clearer - yes the stream might be infinitely
varying in what can stochastically or in other ways be described as
random --if you didn't know the algorithm producing that stream--,
AND if you could, and here's the missing key perhaps: pick a random
starting spot in that stream, then yes, you'd have a sort of private
key.

But even there, here's the problem, with an infinite stream, you need
an infinitely large indexing ability to be able to choose a "truly
random" starting point - the point being, if you want it to be
random, you actually need random input: check out the difference
between /dev/random and /dev/urandomm, and grok these differences,
and it should all make sense.

So now what you're now asking is:
 - which algorithms generate usefully varying output, based on just a
   few bits of available truly random input

Another way to ask this: based on very limited single-bit bits of
truly random input, what is the "most random" output we can
deterministically generate to give the appearance of randomness.

This is /dev/urandom's job.

Once you're in the ballpark of "algorithms which usefully spread
input bits into output bits", next come questions like CPU cycle cost
to do such spreading.

Good luck,

Re: ***SPAM*** Re: House Judiciary Committee taps /r/The_Donald subreddit for Amended Resolution

[Razer]

On 08/03/2017 07:05 PM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> Dunno, just a thought - either that or do as Razer did a few times
> and call for street shitter death squads to kill all the RAAAYCIIIS
> before they send out another meme or something and take down another
> (((indoctrination powerhouse))) like CNN.

Nazis. Hunt down and destroy all NAZIS.

Rr

Re: House Judiciary Committee taps /r/The_Donald subreddit for Amended Resolution

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 11:28:41AM -0400, Joshua Case wrote:
> 
> > On Aug 2, 2017, at 10:50 AM, Razer  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 08/02/2017 06:30 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> >> reaching out to "the people"
> > 
> > Reaching out to people who have computers. The WHITE middle class, and
> > upper working class urban dwellrs who aspire to that ever-shrinking and
> > typically unavailable 'middle'. You can also tap it to turn techies who
> > love technocracy and think the technology that made the mess can
> > extricate us from it, into fascists and blackshirts.
> > 
> > That's the same cohort tapped to make 'color revolutions' btw. We can
> > see how THAT all turned out. More repression thanks to Soros and Rendon,
> > and 'friends' who 'shape perception'.
> 
> 
> Not only that, but why is there any reason to think that the
> members of a message board are American, or have American interests
> in mind while this guys crowdsources a job we pay for out of taxes? 
> 
> I may not entirely agree with R’s assertion that the internet is
> white an middle class anymore, even though much of the money that
> moves there, and many of the faces it uses to lure in unsuspecting
> clickers are, but he’s definitely correct in assuming that this
> profile fits at the reddit page in question, you can see many of
> these cocks practicing these troll tactics under the same
> pseudonyms at daily storm, or any of the other political web
> shitholes on offer - RACISTS from ALL OVER THE PLANET. Writing
> legislation in the house. Classy.  


Hilarious. In a great way.


Here's the thing: if the Liberal Leftys truly want to engage the
"conservative" Raycis Rightys in conversation (you know that thing
supposed to be foundational to your hallowed Democracy where people
communicate with one another, even (shock horror I know) with
reflective listening?),

then they need to come to the table with something other than
hysteria screaming "RAYCIIS !!!"

Dunno, just a thought - either that or do as Razer did a few times
and call for street shitter death squads to kill all the RAAAYCIIIS
before they send out another meme or something and take down another
(((indoctrination powerhouse))) like CNN.

Damn powerful dem memes bro, damn powerful!

Some random extremist thoughts for your sort to try:

 - cogent arguments

 - comprehension of their 'conservative' position

 - acknowledgement of the foundations that fuel the stratospheric
   rise of RAAAYCIIIS memeing


Without the basics, the screaming is hysterical and utterly worthy
of further death defying, courage embracing, cynical shock, awe and
disdain glorifying ...  memes.


 "Oooh! Watch out y'all, here comes a biiig, scaaary meme!
  MWAHAHAHAHHAH!!
  Run fast little Lefty, meme gonna gitcha now!!"


Any suggestion to the contrary is just your preferred variation of
RAAAYCS headless-chook screaming.

Which will be laughed at, disdained and scorned.

Heartily.

With glee.

With gleeful cackling excoriating scornful hearty hyena laughs,
sniggering, snorting and abarndance of relishing righteous self
satisfaction which millions of oppressed conservatives shall,
 --continue to--  laugh right along with.


Now THAT's what I call sanity!


(PS: since many folks are so brainwashed, here's a yuge hint: many
 so-called conservatives are actually very liberal in many ways - the
 problem is typically one of PEBKAC variety where the loud Liberal
 Lefty utterly fails to distinguish any nuance in the position of
 another, what so f#cking ever, and pretends they just had a
 conversation. It's really funny if it weren't so pathetic.

 For the Liberal Lefty it's all absolute black and white, right and
 wrong dichotomies where literally everyone who takes even a smidgen
 of a conservative position on even one "merely social" issue, is
 screamed at as being RAAAYCIIIS or some variation of "you're Hitler,
 end of conversation", which thus ends up being an ironic, rather
 than apropos, invocation of Godwin's Law (thankfully pointed out by
 the good Mr Kinney), just that the Lefty doesn't see the ironic self
 parody (to steal Juan's most appropriate description).

 PPS: You know the one good thing about CNN? They're the only ones
 politically-correctedly-allowed to discuss the JQ publicly.
 )

new idea for random number generation

[\0xDynamite]

Speaking of cryptography (harhar), I was contemplating an idea to
generate random streams of random numbers using chaos theory (not the
first), specifically the logistic equation [3.5x(1-x)], when I came
across the argument (http://www.cs.utsa.edu/~wagner/laws/chaos.html)
that such generators are "psuedo-random", but I don't think is true.

The equation is capable of producing an infinite stream of numbers
that get more random as you continue to use the equation.  The amount
of true randomness approaches the depth of your word size, but in
theory you can create an implementation with arbitrary depth (say
1 bits).

Is this interesting to anyone?

Marxos

Re: House Judiciary Committee taps /r/The_Donald subreddit for Amended Resolution

[Joshua Case]

> On Aug 2, 2017, at 10:50 AM, Razer  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 08/02/2017 06:30 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
>> reaching out to "the people"
> 
> Reaching out to people who have computers. The WHITE middle class, and
> upper working class urban dwellrs who aspire to that ever-shrinking and
> typically unavailable 'middle'. You can also tap it to turn techies who
> love technocracy and think the technology that made the mess can
> extricate us from it, into fascists and blackshirts.
> 
> That's the same cohort tapped to make 'color revolutions' btw. We can
> see how THAT all turned out. More repression thanks to Soros and Rendon,
> and 'friends' who 'shape perception'.


Not only that, but why is there any reason to think that the members of a 
message board are American, or have American interests in mind while this guys 
crowdsources a job we pay for out of taxes? 

I may not entirely agree with R’s assertion that the internet is white an 
middle class anymore, even though much of the money that moves there, and many 
of the faces it uses to lure in unsuspecting clickers are, but he’s definitely 
correct in assuming that this profile fits at the reddit page in question, you 
can see many of these cocks practicing these troll tactics under the same 
pseudonyms at daily storm, or any of the other political web shitholes on offer 
- RACISTS from ALL OVER THE PLANET. Writing legislation in the house. Classy.