Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/06/2017 12:20 AM, John Newman wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 5, 2017, at 9:14 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:


>> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>>
>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>>> More time on "revolutin".
>>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>>> Crypto rave, on.
>>>
>>>
> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>

 On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

 These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
 Better to source privately if possible.
>>>
>>> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
>>> have not already.
>>
>> That is of course prudent advice :)
>>
>> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
>> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
>> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
>> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
>>
>> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
>>
> 
> There are also test kits, which can at least give you some idea
> of what you've got ..

Yes, indeed.

>> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
>> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
>> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
>>
> 
> Whoa! Sounds like the "thumbprint" trips I've heard tales of...

It was just total dumbass. Rule of thumb: Don't dilute your acid while
stoned. But it wasn't that much more intense than one milligram, which
I'd taken intentionally on occasion. It's just that the peak lasted for
about 8-10 hours. Basically, I just sat in a chair, effectively
catatonic and non-responsive. Fortunately, people around me knew what
had happened. And nobody freaked.

> I've never gone more than a few hundred mics (a few hits 
> of 150mic shit in 90s)... but I have sat with friends who took
> mega-doses on more than a few occasions ;)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
>>> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
>>> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>>>
>>> :o/
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[John Newman]

> On Sep 5, 2017, at 9:14 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> 
>> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> 
> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>> More time on "revolutin".
>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>> Crypto rave, on.
>> 
>> 
 Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
 
>>> 
>>> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
>>> 
>>> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
>>> Better to source privately if possible.
>> 
>> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
>> have not already.
> 
> That is of course prudent advice :)
> 
> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
> 
> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
> 

There are also test kits, which can at least give you some idea
of what you've got ..

> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
> 

Whoa! Sounds like the "thumbprint" trips I've heard tales of...

I've never gone more than a few hundred mics (a few hits 
of 150mic shit in 90s)... but I have sat with friends who took
mega-doses on more than a few occasions ;)




>> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
>> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
>> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>> 
>> :o/

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Marina Brown]

On 09/06/2017 12:13 AM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 04:50 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
>> On 09/05/2017 10:39 PM, Mirimir wrote:
>>> On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
 On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:

> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>
>
>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>> More time on "revolutin".
>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>> Crypto rave, on.
>>
>>
 Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

>>>
>>> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
>>>
>>> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
>>> Better to source privately if possible.
>>
>> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
>> have not already.
>
> That is of course prudent advice :)
>
> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
>
> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
>
> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
>

 Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is
 ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally
 have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people
 taking is 10 hits.
>>>
>>> Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits
>>> per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer,
>>> you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol,
>>> in sealed glass break-neck ampules.
>>>
>>> So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff,
>>> before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a
>>> sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But
>>> fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)
>>>
>>> My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times
>>> normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.
>>>
>>
>> I got the numbers wrong.
>>
>> I had a friend in college who had to take 10 hits just to get off.
>> He was a Cellist who loved to play heavy metal on his cello.
> 
> What a trip :)
> 
> Have you heard/seen Seemann,[0] by Apocalyptica with Nina Hagen? And
> then, there's Nina on acid on Letterman.[1]
> 
> 0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAlVF7lYKL8
> 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEGsTUY8YQo
> 
>> I guess not so bad. My longest trip was 3 days. On Jimson Weed.
> 
> Yeah. I tried smoking that once, but nothing. So it goes.
> 

If you want a trip you don't smoke it but it is VERY dangerous.
Definitly an ordeal.

--- Marina


>> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
>> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
>> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>>
>> :o/
>


>>>
>>
>>
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/05/2017 04:50 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 10:39 PM, Mirimir wrote:
>> On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
>>> On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:
 On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>
>
> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>>>
 On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:


> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
> More time on "revolutin".
> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
> Crypto rave, on.
>
>
>>> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>>>
>>
>> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
>>
>> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
>> Better to source privately if possible.
>
> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
> have not already.

 That is of course prudent advice :)

 However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
 an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
 retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

 See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

 Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
 once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
 but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

>>>
>>> Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is
>>> ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally
>>> have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people
>>> taking is 10 hits.
>>
>> Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits
>> per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer,
>> you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol,
>> in sealed glass break-neck ampules.
>>
>> So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff,
>> before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a
>> sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But
>> fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)
>>
>> My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times
>> normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.
>>
> 
> I got the numbers wrong.
> 
> I had a friend in college who had to take 10 hits just to get off.
> He was a Cellist who loved to play heavy metal on his cello.

What a trip :)

Have you heard/seen Seemann,[0] by Apocalyptica with Nina Hagen? And
then, there's Nina on acid on Letterman.[1]

0) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAlVF7lYKL8
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEGsTUY8YQo

> I guess not so bad. My longest trip was 3 days. On Jimson Weed.

Yeah. I tried smoking that once, but nothing. So it goes.

> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>
> :o/

>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Marina Brown]

On 09/05/2017 10:39 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
>> On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:
>>> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:


 On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
>
>
>> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
 A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
 Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
 More time on "revolutin".
 Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
 Crypto rave, on.


>> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>>
>
> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
>
> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
> Better to source privately if possible.

 Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
 have not already.
>>>
>>> That is of course prudent advice :)
>>>
>>> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
>>> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
>>> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
>>> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
>>>
>>> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
>>>
>>> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
>>> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
>>> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
>>>
>>
>> Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is
>> ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally
>> have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people
>> taking is 10 hits.
> 
> Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits
> per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer,
> you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol,
> in sealed glass break-neck ampules.
> 
> So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff,
> before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a
> sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But
> fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)
> 
> My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times
> normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.
> 

I got the numbers wrong.

I had a friend in college who had to take 10 hits just to get off.
He was a Cellist who loved to play heavy metal on his cello.

I guess not so bad. My longest trip was 3 days. On Jimson Weed.

 "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
 bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
 buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.

 :o/
>>>
>>
>>
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/05/2017 02:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:
>> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:


> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>
>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>>> More time on "revolutin".
>>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>>> Crypto rave, on.
>>>
>>>
> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>

 On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

 These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
 Better to source privately if possible.
>>>
>>> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
>>> have not already.
>>
>> That is of course prudent advice :)
>>
>> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
>> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
>> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
>> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
>>
>> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
>>
>> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
>> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
>> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
>>
> 
> Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is
> ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally
> have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people
> taking is 10 hits.

Back in the day, the typical decent dose was ~250 micrograms. 4000 hits
per gram was the gold standard. But of course, as a mid-level dealer,
you never got crystalline LSD. You got a solution in absolute ethanol,
in sealed glass break-neck ampules.

So basically, I bought a quarter gram, and fucked up diluting the stuff,
before making my test samples. So instead of 250 micrograms, I took a
sample that nominally contained ~5 milligrams, or 20 doses. But
fortunately, I corrected the error before anyone else tried it :)

My typical dose was 500-1000 micrograms, so this was only 5-10 times
normal. And my tolerance was probably pretty high, as well.

>>> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
>>> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
>>> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>>>
>>> :o/
>>
> 
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Razer]

On 09/05/2017 06:56 PM, Marina Brown wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:
>> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:

> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>
>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>>> More time on "revolutin".
>>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>>> Crypto rave, on.
>>>
> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>
 On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

 These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
 Better to source privately if possible.
>>> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
>>> have not already.
>> That is of course prudent advice :)
>>
>> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
>> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
>> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
>> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
>>
>> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
>>
>> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
>> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
>> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
>>
> Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is
> ussually 10 micrograms. 

I forget what Hoffman's dose was estimated as being, but he was a
tripper once a year till the day he died
.
10 micrograms wouldn't do a whole lot, unless you eat a lot of paper or
gels or whatever. The typical dose was SUPPOSED TO BE 250 - 350 mics...
Sandoz standard dosage was 350mics


> If you did take milligrams it would litterally
> have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people
> taking is 10 hits.

I knew a guy who ate a whole sheet of Blue Dot blotter in 1971. One of
the last remaining OG STP family (pre-roadie alcoholic street gang)
people showed it to him and he just crumpled it up and... . His name
was/is George, a straight, slightly effeminate puerto rican kid who had
been working a a grocery delivery boy... He showed up one morning at me
and my GF's safe house sponsored by Jewish Family Services (until the
certified folks could contact the kid's parents or investigate abuse
claims as reason not to contact). George ended up with a new persona.
Sgt Pepper! He literally affected a brit accent (Ringo). Wore a brass
button blazer. Talked in Be-At-Els type rhyme. I lost track of him when
I moved to Vt in '73, but ran into him again at Earth People's Park
Shattuck Ave house when I first got to California in 1976. He was 'back
to earth'; the George I met when he first showed up at my E4th and B
Lower East Side slum apartment, but 5 years older (20 or so).


>>> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
>>> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
>>> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>>>
>>> :o/

Same shit. Different decade. For every innerspace cosmonaut there's
thousands of Hedonists who just want to get high and no 'learning
experience' is expected or wanted.

Rr

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Marina Brown]

On 09/05/2017 09:14 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:

> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>
>
>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>> More time on "revolutin".
>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>> Crypto rave, on.
>>
>>
 Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

>>>
>>> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
>>>
>>> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
>>> Better to source privately if possible.
>>
>> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
>> have not already.
> 
> That is of course prudent advice :)
> 
> However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
> an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
> retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
> 5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.
> 
> See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.
> 
> Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
> once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
> but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.
> 

Milligrams ? Are you sure you don't mean micrograms - a dose of LSD is
ussually 10 micrograms. If you did take milligrams it would litterally
have been a few hundred hits of acid. The most i have heard about people
taking is 10 hits.

>> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
>> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
>> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
>>
>> :o/
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/05/2017 08:38 AM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> 
> 
> On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>>>
 On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:


> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
> More time on "revolutin".
> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
> Crypto rave, on.
> 
> 
>>> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>>>
>>
>> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
>>
>> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
>> Better to source privately if possible.
> 
> Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
> have not already.

That is of course prudent advice :)

However, it is possible to test unknowns safely enough. You start with
an extremely low dose. Perhaps 1% of the purported normal dose. And then
retest at higher dosages. A reasonable set of dosages might be 1%, 2%,
5%, 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%. Or more, if you like.

See PiHKAL and TiHKAL :) He started with untested compounds.

Albert Hofmann did get gobsmacked, I admit. But it didn't kill him. I
once inadvertently took a few milligrams of LSD. It was indeed intense,
but no more than some DMT experiences. Did last a lot longer, though.

> "Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
> bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
> buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.
> 
> :o/

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Steve Kinney]

On 09/05/2017 12:54 PM, John Newman wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
 A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
 Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
 More time on "revolutin".
 Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
 Crypto rave, on.


>> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
>>
> 
> On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.
> 
> These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
> Better to source privately if possible.

Simple rule:  Cop only from people you know, and don't eat anything they
have not already.

"Stoned on some new potion he found upon the wall of some unholy
bathroom in some ungodly hall" all too accurately describes people who
buy WTF-ever from darknet vendors.  Same shit, different decade.

:o/









signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[John Newman]

> On Sep 3, 2017, at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> 
>> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>>> More time on "revolutin".
>>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>>> Crypto rave, on.
>> 
>> As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
>> experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
>> special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
>> weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
>> whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
>> LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.
> 
> Woah. So do you remember, back in 1972, what you thought was happening?
> 
> And yes, that acid come on is unmistakable ;)
> 
>> Never underestimate the power of the psychedelics:  Our de facto masters
>> don't, and that is why LSD is on the very short list of illegal drugs
>> not readily available to anyone who goes looking.  Everybody who's hip
>> to the jive /says/ they can get acid, but ask if it's real and they look
>> at their shoes and mumble. ...
> 
> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
> 

On SR, then alphabay - excellent mdma also.

These services (well, their descendants) are obviously risky as fuck. 
Better to source privately if possible.

> I still have some from the 80s. I sealed lots of blotter in evacuated
> glass ampules. It's been frozen since, at -20°C or less. On dry ice when
> I've moved. I last tried some about ten years ago, and it was fine.
> 
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Razer]

On 09/04/2017 01:06 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>
> On 09/04/2017 11:00 AM, Razer wrote:
>>
>> On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
>>> BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose
>>> typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read
>>> that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.  
>>
>> ... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out.
>> BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic.
>> Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it.
>>
>> Rr
> Surveys of the literature have found no descriptions of "bad trips"
> resulting from administration of LSD 


STP was a whole 'nother thing. The 'trip' was described somewhere (I
think Abbie Hoffman in Revolution for the Hell of It) as 'long and
juiceless' ...


> in a clinical setting, which
> included subjects with diagnosed mental illnesses, and studies using
> very large doses.  The classic "bad trip" first appeared in the wild
> right on time to support the Federally sponsored full-saturation
> domestic propaganda campaign against LSD.
>
> Did the CIA murder Art Linkletter's daughter?  Maybe not her in
> particular, on purpose.  But whoever made the alleged "LSD" she took
> before diving out of a high window did. and her suicide was a huge
> stroke of luck for the folks tasked to sell the public on a completely
> false version of what LSD is and does.
>
>> Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is
>> methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain
>> psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long
>> term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar.
> When hearings were held to determine what schedule to put MDMA on,
> clinical researchers who testified described it was uniquely useful;
> they found it got stubbornly uncommunicative patients talking, and
> enabled therapists to build useful rapport with them very quickly.
> Their verdict was unanimous:  This is Good Shit, we wants it yes we
> does.  Then the DEA guise gave their testimony, mostly a recitation of
> War On Drugs propaganda talking points originally created for LSD, and
> so MDMA was put on Schedule I.

It's METHAMPHETAMINE, which also has clinical uses. Raving till you chew
thru your pacifier and drop from dehydration isn't 'clinical'. Just sayin'.

I knew the people who distrubuted MDA on the East Coast in the 60s and
MDA had the same deleterious effects from long term usage. AFAICT LSD
had no effects that would be noted by psychologists or behavioral
therapists as 'deleterious'.

By 1969 or 1970, or 71, or so, most of what was passed off as LSD was
either ALD-52 or MDA, or some other designer drug. When LSD became
illegal in the US not only did the feds immediately clamp down on all
the organic resources such as Ergotamine Tartrate, indole, and other
items necessary for LSD production (A special # Sylvania blue bulb was
necessary at one point in it's manufacture. IMAGINE what would happen if
a lighting house received an oddball order for a few), as was noted at
the time in the underground newspapers, many of the supply houses WERE
THE FEDS, and they used the mailing lists quite effectively to shut down
labs.

You might want to listen to this... From one of Owsley's close personal
friends, on his passing.

March 15 2011 Travus T. Hipp Morning News & Commentary: Owsley, The Man
Who 'Changed The Minds' Of An Entire Generation... Literally... Passes
https://archive.org/details/tth_110315

Owsley wasn't a chemist you know... He was a speedfreak. His GF was an
organic chemist, and as is so succinctly pointed out here, what made
Owsley the 'name you could trust' in LSD, was he actually tried the shit
before he sold it. Most of what was passed off as L was made by scumbags
not far removed from the Mafia (Brotherhood of Eternal Light at their
former missile silo in was it Nebraska?). The Mafia LUVS chemicals. Easy
to transport unlike bulky stinky weed, and the one thing I noted in my
experience in NY, when ever you got around L dealers, you started seeing
guns, and people who looked A LOT like feds.


>
> MDMA has been described as an "empathogen," knocking down social anxiety
> and replacing it, temporarily, with trust, confidence, and a (transient)
> sense of strong social bonding with "just whoever happens to be there."


As you described it, "empathogen,", it has certain SPECIFIC effects,
just like every other ordinary pharmaceutical, and just because you feel
all lovey dovey DOES NOT NOR HAS IT EVER MEANT, you 'explored your inner
space'. The phrase "Adjunct to Psychotherapy" come to mind. Tripping
with a bunch of people who are just like wow I love you groovy then they
go back to my day job slicing throats at some corporate hack job or
another, doesn't, and WHERE IS THE "GUIDANCE"? It's the hedonists
leading the hedonists down the rosy path to... I dunno. Running into a
fire at "burning man" or some stupid thing like that.

> I speculate t

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Steve Kinney]

On 09/04/2017 11:00 AM, Razer wrote:
> 
> 
> On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
>>
>> BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose
>> typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read
>> that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.  
> 
> 
> ... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out.
> BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic.
> Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it.
> 
> Rr

Surveys of the literature have found no descriptions of "bad trips"
resulting from administration of LSD in a clinical setting, which
included subjects with diagnosed mental illnesses, and studies using
very large doses.  The classic "bad trip" first appeared in the wild
right on time to support the Federally sponsored full-saturation
domestic propaganda campaign against LSD.

Did the CIA murder Art Linkletter's daughter?  Maybe not her in
particular, on purpose.  But whoever made the alleged "LSD" she took
before diving out of a high window did. and her suicide was a huge
stroke of luck for the folks tasked to sell the public on a completely
false version of what LSD is and does.

> Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is
> methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain
> psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long
> term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar.

When hearings were held to determine what schedule to put MDMA on,
clinical researchers who testified described it was uniquely useful;
they found it got stubbornly uncommunicative patients talking, and
enabled therapists to build useful rapport with them very quickly.
Their verdict was unanimous:  This is Good Shit, we wants it yes we
does.  Then the DEA guise gave their testimony, mostly a recitation of
War On Drugs propaganda talking points originally created for LSD, and
so MDMA was put on Schedule I.

MDMA has been described as an "empathogen," knocking down social anxiety
and replacing it, temporarily, with trust, confidence, and a (transient)
sense of strong social bonding with "just whoever happens to be there."
I speculate that the Feds chose to suppress MDMA both because of
unwanted macro scale social impacts, and because its obvious
intelligence tradecraft applications (elicitation of information, agent
development & recruitment) do not belong in "private" hands.

Today's "ecstasy" a.k.a. X contains no MDMA but typically does contain
amphetamine, heroin, and one or more "designer" drugs to tweak the
experience this way or that.  Mixing that crap with alcohol can knock a
person right down (this I have seen in real life) and respiratory arrest
sometimes follows.

:o/








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Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Razer]

On 09/03/2017 04:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
>
> BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose
> typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read
> that the 'trip' lasts 3 days.  


... says someone who never took STP. A 3 day peak and a total burn out.
BZ was intended to be an INCAPACITATING AGENT, not a psychotropic.
Everyone knew that by 1968 and very few people actually ever used it.

Rr

Ps. I have problems with MDMA as an 'analogue' to LSD. MDMA is
methamphetamine based and although it exhibits certain
psychedeic-experience-like properties, it's still Meth, and the long
term effect of it's use, if not as dramatic (usually), IS similar.

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Steve Kinney]

On 09/03/2017 09:47 PM, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>>> More time on "revolutin".
>>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>>> Crypto rave, on.
>>
>> As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
>> experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
>> special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
>> weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
>> whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
>> LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.
> 
> Woah. So do you remember, back in 1972, what you thought was happening?
> 
> And yes, that acid come on is unmistakable ;)

I was told at the time that the medication in question contained a
"stimulant" and that it might make me feel "funny," but not to worry
about it, it would wear off in a few hours and I would eventually get
used to it.

I did not so much get used to it, as start really looking forward to it.
 When the second batch arrived, click, nothing.  No effect.

Along about that time I started to question literally everything,
including the nature of reality itself.  I can't say the experience
affected my core values - for instance I was already dead set against
war, regardless of excuses offered, and got in trouble from time to time
for not bothering to observe "color lines" on the playground etc.  But I
suspect the LSD did have a radicalizing effect, in the literal sense of
that word:  It directed my attention to the fundamentals that define a
person's life and the structure of events in the larger world.






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Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sun, Sep 03, 2017 at 03:34:24PM -1100, Mirimir wrote:
> On 09/03/2017 03:19 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> > On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> >> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
> > 
> > Though not as popular a poison, there always seem to be
> > a small number of well regarded vendors in such markets.
> > A little disposable crypto cash and a maildrop is all it takes
> > to run your own tests.
> 
> Yes. I recall a few blog posts about such tests :)

O M G, you guys are humans doing things humans tend to do ?!?

Naughty naughty!

Re: Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sun, Sep 03, 2017 at 11:34:01PM +, jim bell wrote:
>  On Sunday, September 3, 2017, 4:07:00 PM PDT, Steve Kinney 
>  wrote:
>  
> 
> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> > A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
> > Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
> > More time on "revolutin".
> > Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
> > Crypto rave, on.
> 
> >As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
> experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
> special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
> weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
> whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
> LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.[end 
> of quote]
> 
> 
> Check out the movie "Jacob's Ladder",   
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJztRnDxdM8     Movie trailer.
> http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.htm
> 
> 
> BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 
> 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read that the 'trip' 
> lasts 3 days.  
> The US Military experimented with BZ in the 1950's, in a project called 
> "Operation Blue Skies". 
> http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.htm
> 
> 
>                Jim Bell
> [For some reason, this idiot Yahoo mail client isn't letting me convert these 
> URL's into clickable links.]

WHAOH, DUDE! I can read your emails :D :)

Those couple blank lines really work - thanks for that, really
appreciated :)

(And BTW, at least in my MUA, I can click plain links no worries -
straight up in $BROWSER_OF_CHOICE - some X terminals are rather
featureful.)

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/03/2017 03:19 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
>> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.
> 
> Though not as popular a poison, there always seem to be
> a small number of well regarded vendors in such markets.
> A little disposable crypto cash and a maildrop is all it takes
> to run your own tests.

Yes. I recall a few blog posts about such tests :)

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[grarpamp]

On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Mirimir  wrote:
> Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

Though not as popular a poison, there always seem to be
a small number of well regarded vendors in such markets.
A little disposable crypto cash and a maildrop is all it takes
to run your own tests.

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/03/2017 12:05 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> 
> 
> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>> More time on "revolutin".
>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>> Crypto rave, on.
> 
> As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
> experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
> special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
> weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
> whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
> LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.

Woah. So do you remember, back in 1972, what you thought was happening?

And yes, that acid come on is unmistakable ;)

> Never underestimate the power of the psychedelics:  Our de facto masters
> don't, and that is why LSD is on the very short list of illegal drugs
> not readily available to anyone who goes looking.  Everybody who's hip
> to the jive /says/ they can get acid, but ask if it's real and they look
> at their shoes and mumble. ...

Reportedly good blotter has been available on SR etc.

I still have some from the 80s. I sealed lots of blotter in evacuated
glass ampules. It's been frozen since, at -20°C or less. On dry ice when
I've moved. I last tried some about ten years ago, and it was fine.

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Steve Kinney]

On 09/03/2017 07:34 PM, jim bell wrote:
> On Sunday, September 3, 2017, 4:07:00 PM PDT, Steve Kinney
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
>> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
>> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
>> More time on "revolutin".
>> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
>> Crypto rave, on.
> 
> 
>>As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era

[ etc ]

> Check out the movie "Jacob's Ladder",
>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJztRnDxdM8 Movie trailer.

I saw it at a theater; a NamVet friend got a group together to go.  He
said something very much like that really happened, and I'm not inclined
to doubt it.

> http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.htm
> 
> 
> BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose
> typically 2 milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read that
> the 'trip' lasts 3 days.  
> 
> The US Military experimented with BZ in the 1950's, in a project called
> "Operation Blue Skies". 
> 
> http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.htm

Back around 1979 or 80, one of my best friends and her son went stark
raving paranoid psychotic overnight.  Literally, they woke up insane,
closed the shop, boarded up their windows and prepared for the worst -
locked into a state of panic the whole time.

At that time, Carolyn was running a head shop near the University of
Central Florida, and a series of laws had recently been passed over the
course of a few months in an effort to shut down head shops in Florida,
with an apparent emphasis on hers:  The first to be raided on every day
the next law kicked in.  The other well known head shop in town was
never raided.  It did not open on the mornings of the raids, but some of
Carolyn's stock did appear on its shelves in the weeks following.

Also at that time, Lockheed Martin was building a missile plant less
than a mile down the road from Carolyn's head shop.  On the cross-corner
of the same intersection, a subdivision destined to house many of the
missile plant's employees broke ground.

Caroline never called her establishment an Infoshop, but it was exactly
that, loaded to the gunnels with anarchist literature and propaganda.
On slow days the stone gorgeous fucking brilliant hippie chick who ran
it was always happy to talk politics.  So, given Carolyn's location,
that store had to go.

Carolyn eventually recovered.  Her son did not.  In all fairness he was
starting to go nuts on his own - family history on his father's side -
but whatever nerve agent was used did him no favors either.

Every now and then when an "inconvenient" person kills themselves or
gets themselves shot, information on their behavior in the days leading
up to the event really does make me wonder.  Carolyn believed that she
was supposed to commit suicide, because someone had made it a point just
a couple of days earlier to assure that there would be a loaded gun in
the house.

:o/









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Re: Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[jim bell]

 On Sunday, September 3, 2017, 4:07:00 PM PDT, Steve Kinney 
 wrote:
 

On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
> More time on "revolutin".
> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
> Crypto rave, on.

>As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.[end of 
quote]


Check out the movie "Jacob's Ladder",   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJztRnDxdM8     Movie trailer.
http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.htm


BZ (Quinuclidinyl Benzilate) is far easier to make than LSD, a dose typically 2 
milligram compared to LSD's 200 microgram.   I've read that the 'trip' lasts 3 
days.  
The US Military experimented with BZ in the 1950's, in a project called 
"Operation Blue Skies". 
http://pages.uoregon.edu/munno/OregonCourses/REL253F12/REL253Notes/BZStory.htm


               Jim Bell
[For some reason, this idiot Yahoo mail client isn't letting me convert these 
URL's into clickable links.]


  

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Steve Kinney]

On 09/02/2017 09:06 PM, grarpamp wrote:
> A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
> Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
> More time on "revolutin".
> Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
> Crypto rave, on.

As an unwitting participant in either one of the last MKULTRA era
experiments, or an independent M.D.'s "good deed for the day," I have a
special relationship with LSD:  I got microdosed twice a week for six
weeks in 1972, and that experience went a long way toward making me
whatever the fuck I am today.  A few years later I thought I was taking
LSD for the first time... but then came the "Hello old friend!" moment.

Never underestimate the power of the psychedelics:  Our de facto masters
don't, and that is why LSD is on the very short list of illegal drugs
not readily available to anyone who goes looking.  Everybody who's hip
to the jive /says/ they can get acid, but ask if it's real and they look
at their shoes and mumble.  MDMA is the only other example that comes to
mind at the moment, and it is seriously prohibited for the same reasons
as LSD:  Its effect on the individual users' cognitive and emotional
development, and potential aggregate impact on social and political
norms, is Not Wanted:  Better every American who is willing and able
should be using heroin - which BTW is typically included in the fake
MDMA that is readily available everywhere in the U.S.

Once upon a time, a misplaced decimal point in a report received by the
CIA made it appear that the Soviet researchers had ordered hundreds of
thousands of doses of LSD from its sole source, Sandoz.  Nobody at CIA
had heard of LSD, but the literature indicated that it was believed to
have unique potentials for research and therapeutic purposes.  This made
the huge order from Russia look very significant.  The propaganda meme
of "Communist Brainwashing" was still current as an explanation for U.S.
prisoners in North Korea confessing to war crimes.  In a strange example
of blowback, this myth prompted the CIA to attempt to duplicate
"brainwashing" themselves.

In the 1950s, LSD was being studied by psychiatrists and psychologists
who believed it could produce breakthroughs in treatment of intractable
mental illnesses.  Russia's supposedly HUGE order for LSD made it appear
that they had found a very important practical application for it, maybe
even as a tool for "brainwashing."  So the CIA cut a deal with Sandoz:
They placed an even larger order themselves, as part of an agreement
that Sandoz would sell exclusively to the CIA.

This is how the MKULTRA we know and love was born.  The spooks were up
to their ears in acid and had no idea what it was for, so they started
giving LSD to a broad cross section of people in various situations just
to see what would happen, and unleashed all the Mad Scientists they
could interest in the subject with carte blanche to do whatever it took
to find out what LSD does and how to weaponize it.

It turned out that the only significant military application for LSD was
as a disabling agent producing temporary confusion, disorientation and
loss of focus on structured tasks.  Pharmacological research beginning
with the study of LSD eventually yielded a family of nerve agents that
produce instant, persistent paranoid psychosis: BZ, DZ and others which
are still in the inventories of various services.

Academics employed by the MKULTRA program through front organizations
included Tim Leary and Richard Alpert, who did the now classic studies
defining the "psychedelic effect."  Long story short, the LSD experience
can permanently affect a person's subjective frame of reference, moving
it in the direction of empathy, compassion and creativity.  Worst of
all, from an intelligence service viewpoint, LSD can cause indoctrinated
neurotic complexes to collapse "of their own accord."

So LSD turned out to be worse than useless to the CIA:  The psychedelic
effect works directly against the mission profile loosely described as
"brainwashing," at every scale from individual targets to whole national
populations.  By the mid-1960s a decision was taken to actively suppress
the use of LSD, and soon after batches of LSD poisoned with nerve agents
similar to those mentioned above made their way into underground supply
chains.  The full spectrum of domestic propaganda assets were engaged to
assure the successful demonization of LSD.  The last time I checked,
simple possession of LSD was a Federal felony carrying a minimum
mandatory 10 year prison sentence.

One should not over-estimate the beneficial impacts of LSD:  It is no
panacea.  Users whose "set and setting" for the LSD experience is
escapist thrill-seeking usually realize little or no measurable benefit,
no matter how much they use or how often.  But in the hands of people
already committed to self examination - or so oriented by structured
activities such as religious services or psychotherapy while "tripping"
- LSD works like dynamite:  It clears m

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[No]

https://libcom.org/library/poverty-hip-life

A pro-situ critique of "hippie" life written by Contradiction in April
1972.

Best critique I've read so far on the 60's hippie culture.


On 09/03/2017 04:04 AM, grarpamp wrote:
> Hobbled is distinctly descriptive.
> If one gets up and acts, even if in limited time luminary fashion,
> that's less than abjectly hobbled.
> Now, out... to ride me high horse in plainly hobbled fashion ;)
> Didn't Paul Revere ride horses... them effin rebels.

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[grarpamp]

Hobbled is distinctly descriptive.
If one gets up and acts, even if in limited time luminary fashion,
that's less than abjectly hobbled.
Now, out... to ride me high horse in plainly hobbled fashion ;)
Didn't Paul Revere ride horses... them effin rebels.

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[Mirimir]

On 09/02/2017 10:12 AM, Razer wrote:
> 
> 
> On 09/02/2017 12:41 AM, grarpamp wrote (b/c the original poster is shitcanned 
> at 
> the server):
>>> \0xd:
>>> Yeah, humans are both the cause and the cure.  The major source of
>>> inadequacy in THIS population (crypto-anarchists) is the failure to
>>> examine why the 60's failed to produce the revolution it desired.  It
>>> had love, peace, and an awesome soundtrack -- yet it failed.
> 
> 
> What makes this troll think the 60s failed to produce it's revolution?
> 
> 'Any time you walk into a store and see something advertised as "Psychedelic" 
> YOU KNOW the 60s had an effect on America.' ~Frank Zappa (paraphrased)

Well, the US did bail on Viet Nam. And casual fucking did become far
more popular. And food coops went mainstream. And homosexuality became
acceptable. And marijuana is legal in several states. And damn, are the
Dead still touring? Or some offshoot/residue, at least?

> The troll is operating under the assumption it was going to be a COMMIE 
> ree-vol-lewshun or sumpthin'.

Soviet efforts aside, hippies were mostly into sex, drugs and music :)

> Speaking of the 60s, Commie Ree-vol-lewshuns, etc...
> 
> Weather Underground Members Speak Out on the Media, Imperialism and 
> Solidarity 
> in the Age of Trump
> 
> Interviews By Dahr Jamail August 30 2017, TruthOut: 
> http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/41746-weather-underground-speak-out-on-the-media-imperialism-and-solidarity-in-the-age-of-trump
> 
> It ain't over till the fat pig squeals...
> 
> One like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo: Czechago pig takes an swing at a NY TImes photog. Democratic 
> Convention 1968

Hey, Trump = Pigasus ;) That always was slaughterhouse humor.

>> 60s quite possibly...
>> Too much drugs, violence, disorganization...
>> And unencrypted tappable mail, phone, bank lines...
> 

Re: Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[grarpamp]

A "store" for SK's top 10% wealth transfer? Lol, designed.
Less time hobbled on "psychedelics".
More time on "revolutin".
Or at least gettin hippie dirty, jiggystyle.
Crypto rave, on.

Cypherpunk Inadequacies / Why the 60's failed

[grarpamp]

> \0xd:
> Yeah, humans are both the cause and the cure.  The major source of
> inadequacy in THIS population (crypto-anarchists) is the failure to
> examine why the 60's failed to produce the revolution it desired.  It
> had love, peace, and an awesome soundtrack -- yet it failed.

60s quite possibly...
Too much drugs, violence, disorganization...
And unencrypted tappable mail, phone, bank lines...