Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Fri, Mar 03, 2017 at 05:19:51PM +, jim bell wrote:
>  From: Joshua Case 
> >Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining 
> >momentum of some sort, yes?
> >https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/
> >And while it pretends to play nice, you are never a click away from overtly 
> >fascist neo-nazi siege-heiling in front of a camera.
> Hey, I don't like that either, but it is an unfortunately predictable
> consequence of misconduct at the other side of the political spectrum.

Ukraine, from the East side - speaks directly to nationalism, fascism
and more:
http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/03/be-patient-givi-full-episode.html

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Sat, Mar 04, 2017 at 05:01:51AM +1000, James A. Donald wrote:
> On 3/4/2017 2:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
> >Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining
> >momentum of some sort, yes?
> >
> >https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/
> 
> 
> Nazis murdered about twelve million or so.  Maybe twenty million at most.
> Commies murdered well over a hundred million.  Probably around one hundred
> and sixty million.
> 
> Commies are continually committing massive acts of violence right now today,
> for example BLM ethnically cleansing Ferguson.
> 
> You propose to pre-emptively exterminate Nazis, and then declare everyone
> who supports Trump, approximately fifty percent of Americans, to be a Nazi.

If they're not declared as "the ultimate evil people", then they
couldn't be ethnically cleansed (well, it wouldn't be politically
correct to do so...)

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Fri, Mar 03, 2017 at 06:17:41PM +, jim bell wrote:
> https://attackthesystem.com/2017/02/22/against-the-anti-fascist-creeps/
> (Another partial quote follows:)
> "This may be as a good a definition of fascism as any. However,
> Reid-Ross is not consistent in his adherence to this definition
> throughout the book. He clearly understands that simply defining
> “fascism” according to the popular meaning of the term as synonymous
> with “right-wing authoritarian states” is inaccurate, and highly
> problematic from an analytical perspective.

> However, he subsequently
> proceeds to at least implicitly characterize as “fascist” any kind of
> ideological framework or political tendency that involves any sort of
> real or perceived ethnic, racial, or national differentiation.

Now that makes sense - "fascism is anything opposing an
ethnically (etc) homogeneous future" !

So Antifa is violently opposed to anything standing in the way of a
unified, ethnically homogeneous, global unipolar new world order.

Got it.

Now if I can only figure out why Razer is so pro-NWO !?


  Ethnic homegeneity in the name of ethnic diversity.


And this global ethnically homogeneous outcome must be violently fought
for, to make sure no one opposed this outcome, says Antifa.



> Among
> these are the highly diverse right-wing populist movements of Europe,
> right-wing socialists, various anarchist tendencies, and American
> political currents as varied as neo-Confederates, the Ku Klux Klan,
> Libertarians, the militia movement and the Tea Party.[end of partial
> quote]
> 
> I wondered what libertarians (or capital-L Libertarians) did to
> deserve being linked with, "neo-Confederates", the "Ku Klux Klan",
> etc.

Some of them are probably inclined towards global ethnic diversity (in
the geographic/ "nationalist" sense) rather than global ethnic
homogeneity.


> Then, I realized that those anti-fascists that the author (Keith
> Preston) is alluding to are simply reacting to anyone they don't like
> as being the enemy.

Possibly. But I think there's more to it - violent opposition to (real)
ethnic diversity on the planet.

That's an amazing realisation - that some people are literally violently
opposed to ethnic diversity in this world.

And of course The Ministry insists that they commit their violent acts
under the banner of "freedom of speech" and "protecting diversity"!

What a spin out.


> If nothing else, libertarians would eliminate, or
> at least drastically reduce, the size and control of governments.  

Which would remove the power of the nation state to impose war and
to maximise global ethnic homogeneity. Except when governments have
those in power who might not support that intention...


> Anyone who is in love with large, controlling government would have to
> think of libertarians as being "the enemy".

Indeed.


> This is certainly not the
> first time, in the last few months, I have seen "libertarians" being
> lumped with many other people and organizations, the latter often
> being distasteful.  But what are we to think?

The Ministry is in full swing.

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[James A. Donald]

On 3/4/2017 3:20 PM, Jason McVetta wrote:

Leftist = Rightist = Centrist = totalitarian capitalist

C'mon folks, the tired left vs right narrative has almost zero power to
explain real politics. Everytime you play along and use those bogus
terms, you obscure your own position and make the public discourse
stupider.


Politics is tribal. Sometimes apt to devolve into gang warfare.

We are now in a situation where devolution into gang warfare seems likely.

Consider Apple, now run by Cook, because he is gay.  Cook is 
incompetent.  Consider, for example, the Apple watch.  If you buy an 
Apple watch, no one can tell that your watch comes from Apple.  So Apple 
is now leaking coolness.  Buying apple products no longer make you cool.


He got his job, regardless of competence, because social justice 
warriors stick together.  So Tribe A is stealing all the loot from Tribe 
B.  Social Justice Warriors get paid for being social Justice Warriors.


This creates an increasing risk that Tribe A and tribe B will come to blows.

And it does not matter much that we call Tribe A commies and Tribe B 
fascists, because when the shooting starts, no one will remember their 
respective ideologies.

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[Jason McVetta]

Leftist = Rightist = Centrist = totalitarian capitalist

C'mon folks, the tired left vs right narrative has almost zero power to
explain real politics. Everytime you play along and use those bogus terms,
you obscure your own position and make the public discourse stupider.


-- sent from my robot

On Mar 3, 2017 11:34 PM, "Joshua Case"  wrote:

> On 3/4/2017 5:14 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
>
>> James, will you please, for the list, copy paste and post where I
>> proposed anything, other than thoughtfulness with respect to the political
>> noise on the board who’s topic has become a subject of dispute recently?
>>
>
> The proposition that of late there is a lot of nazism around, both ironic
> and unironic, needs to be balanced by the fact that there has long been a
> great deal more of entirely unironic communism around.
>
> Raising the brown scare in an environment where the red scare is still far
> more appropriate is like worrying about people being killed by witchcraft,
> in an environment where witches are frequently being burned at the stake,
> but examples of people being harmed by witchcraft seem to usually turn out
> to be fake.
>
> In the current environment, anyone who raises the brown scare is evil or
> insane.
>
> If I see anyone pointing at real, ironic, or imaginary nazis, I figure he
> is planning to kill me and kill my children, and in the current
> environment, and in view of recent events, that is a reasonable conclusion.
>
> You pointed at some real Nazis.   I conclude you intend to murder me and
> everyone like me.  This is a reasonable inference from the events of the
> twentieth century, where such pointing frequently has led to the deaths of
> everyone like me.
>
>

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[James A. Donald]

On 3/4/2017 5:14 AM, Joshua Case wrote:

James, will you please, for the list, copy paste and post where I proposed 
anything, other than thoughtfulness with respect to the political noise on the 
board who’s topic has become a subject of dispute recently?


The proposition that of late there is a lot of nazism around, both 
ironic and unironic, needs to be balanced by the fact that there has 
long been a great deal more of entirely unironic communism around.


Raising the brown scare in an environment where the red scare is still 
far more appropriate is like worrying about people being killed by 
witchcraft, in an environment where witches are frequently being burned 
at the stake, but examples of people being harmed by witchcraft seem to 
usually turn out to be fake.


In the current environment, anyone who raises the brown scare is evil or 
insane.


If I see anyone pointing at real, ironic, or imaginary nazis, I figure 
he is planning to kill me and kill my children, and in the current 
environment, and in view of recent events, that is a reasonable conclusion.


You pointed at some real Nazis.   I conclude you intend to murder me and 
everyone like me.  This is a reasonable inference from the events of the 
twentieth century, where such pointing frequently has led to the deaths 
of everyone like me.

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[juan]

On Sat, 4 Mar 2017 05:01:51 +1000
"James A. Donald"  wrote:

> On 3/4/2017 2:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
> > Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late
> > gaining momentum of some sort, yes?
> >
> > https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/
> 
> 
> Nazis murdered about twelve million or so.  Maybe twenty million at 
> most.  Commies murdered well over a hundred million.  Probably around 
> one hundred and sixty million.


LMAO at US - nazi -  military propaganda. 

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[Joshua Case]

> On Mar 3, 2017, at 2:01 PM, James A. Donald  wrote:
> 
> On 3/4/2017 2:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:
>> Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining
>> momentum of some sort, yes?
>> 
>> https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/
> 
> 
> Nazis murdered about twelve million or so.  Maybe twenty million at most.  
> Commies murdered well over a hundred million.  Probably around one hundred 
> and sixty million.
> 
> Commies are continually committing massive acts of violence right now today, 
> for example BLM ethnically cleansing Ferguson.
> 
> You propose to pre-emptively exterminate Nazis, and then declare everyone who 
> supports Trump, approximately fifty percent of Americans, to be a Nazi.
> 
> 

James, will you please, for the list, copy paste and post where I proposed 
anything, other than thoughtfulness with respect to the political noise on the 
board who’s topic has become a subject of dispute recently?  

There is a tripartite disjunction that can be created from your message’s 
content - you are either stupid, did not read the material, or are just 
willfully disruptive.

The actual Nazi’s have a more civil board, they seem to read each others posts 
before they reply.

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[Razer]

On 03/03/2017 10:17 AM, jim bell wrote:
>
> I wondered what libertarians (or capital-L Libertarians) did to
> deserve being linked with, "neo-Confederates", the "Ku Klux Klan", etc.
>

Simple.





Libertarianism is fertile medium for Fascism to grow from because
Fascism DEPENDS on self-centrism to achieve a following, and there's
NOTHING more self-centric-ly oriented than a Libertarian.

Rr

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[James A. Donald]

On 3/4/2017 2:33 AM, Joshua Case wrote:

Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining
momentum of some sort, yes?

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/



Nazis murdered about twelve million or so.  Maybe twenty million at 
most.  Commies murdered well over a hundred million.  Probably around 
one hundred and sixty million.


Commies are continually committing massive acts of violence right now 
today, for example BLM ethnically cleansing Ferguson.


You propose to pre-emptively exterminate Nazis, and then declare 
everyone who supports Trump, approximately fifty percent of Americans, 
to be a Nazi.

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[jim bell]

https://attackthesystem.com/2017/02/22/against-the-anti-fascist-creeps/
(Another partial quote follows:)
"This may be as a good a definition of fascism as any. However, Reid-Ross is 
not consistent in his adherence to this definition throughout the book. He 
clearly understands that simply defining “fascism” according to the popular 
meaning of the term as synonymous with “right-wing authoritarian states” is 
inaccurate, and highly problematic from an analytical perspective. However, he 
subsequently proceeds to at least implicitly characterize as “fascist” any kind 
of ideological framework or political tendency that involves any sort of real 
or perceived ethnic, racial, or national differentiation. Among these are the 
highly diverse right-wing populist movements of Europe, right-wing socialists, 
various anarchist tendencies, and American political currents as varied as 
neo-Confederates, the Ku Klux Klan, Libertarians, the militia movement and the 
Tea Party.[end of partial quote]

I wondered what libertarians (or capital-L Libertarians) did to deserve being 
linked with, "neo-Confederates", the "Ku Klux Klan", etc.
Then, I realized that those anti-fascists that the author (Keith Preston) is 
alluding to are simply reacting to anyone they don't like as being the enemy.  
If nothing else, libertarians would eliminate, or at least drastically reduce, 
the size and control of governments.   Anyone who is in love with large, 
controlling government would have to think of libertarians as being "the 
enemy".This is certainly not the first time, in the last few months, I have 
seen "libertarians" being lumped with many other people and organizations, the 
latter often being distasteful.  But what are we to think?  
           Jim Bell

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[jim bell]

 From: Joshua Case 

>Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining 
>momentum of some sort, yes?
>https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/
>And while it pretends to play nice, you are never a click away from overtly 
>fascist neo-nazi siege-heiling in front of a camera.
Hey, I don't like that either, but it is an unfortunately predictable 
consequence of misconduct at the other side of the political spectrum.  And I 
say "other side" with caution:  The "horseshoe" theory of political expression  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory    explains why dictators of 
the left and dictators of the right tend to look and act alike.  So, I've come 
to believe that there really is very little difference between (for example) 
communists and fascists:  They are merely authoritarian or totalitarian thugs 
that somebody has arbitrarily and capriciously labelled as being "left-wing" 
and "right-wing", respectively.
   

Myself, I have long preferred the "Nolan Chart",  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart   to the extent that it shows that as 
you slide down the lower-left boundary, you begin to get to the same location 
(0/0) as sliding down the right boundary.
>I defend the right to speech that I do not agree with, but war starts in 
>speech - and things are escalating. It’s not just  a sense I’ve got, you can 
>look at the attendance and participation changes.
Saying, "war starts with speech" may very well be true, but let's not fall into 
the trap of using that to justify restrictions on free speech.  I've lived long 
enough to see "the left" engage in massive protests in places like UC Berkeley 
in the 1960s in favor of free speech, to today's left wing engage in riots in 
the same venue to oppose free speech.  Quite a change, huh?  Most of the young 
ones don't even see the irony there.

>You cannot pretend this isn’t real, and problematic. You can’t act as if all 
>people are rational actors, if they were the free market system would have 
>worked! (Ok last line was open trolling, Jim)
A few weeks ago, I noticed that BOTH Fascism and Communism pushed the idea of 
perfectibility of man.  (Google-search 'perfectibility communism' and 
'perfectibility fascism' to see the similarity.)   Their motivations?  I 
suspect that much of it had to do with providing excuses as to why (for 
example) Communism didn't actually seem to work when it was tried.  'If people 
didn't seem to work to follow the latest 5-year plan, it must be because of 
their inherent inperfection, Comrade'. 
One illustrative example could be that the dictates of the famous 5-year plans 
wouldn't be very specific:  Shoe factories were presumably told to make a 
billion pairs of shoes during the then-current 5-year plan.  It was far easier 
to make a billion of the same style of shoe, rather than a selection that the 
public would actually want and buy.  No doubt a "perfect person" was, 
rhetorically, a person who was willing to adjust his desires to the 
capabilities and function of the then-current (communist) government, rather 
than the government being required to adjust its output to the desires of a 
varied population.  
And what is the definition of a "rational actor", in that context?  A 
self-interested individual makes choices for his own benefit, or those around 
here with which he has a special relationship.  (Family, friends, etc.).  The 
Communist ideal, I assume, was that a good Communist would always choose what 
is/was good for the public, or at least the State.  Not quite the same thing.  
             Jim Bell

   

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[Joshua Case]

or, this 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XDBHHV5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8=1488520894=8-1=hailstorm+saga+of+the+new+ss
 



Joshua Case
jwc...@gmail.com 

“International tensions. Mounting international tensions. First there were 
states of precautionary alert, then there were enhanced readiness centers. This 
was followed by maximum arc situational preparedness. We can measure the 
gravity of events by tracing the increasingly abstract nature of the 
terminology. One more level of vagueness and that could be it."

> On Mar 3, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Joshua Case  wrote:
> 
> Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining 
> momentum of some sort, yes?
> 
> https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/ 
> 
> 
> And while it pretends to play nice, you are never a click away from overtly 
> fascist neo-nazi siege-heiling in front of a camera.
> 
> I defend the right to speech that I do not agree with, but war starts in 
> speech - and things are escalating. It’s not just  a sense I’ve got, you can 
> look at the attendance and participation changes.
> 
> You cannot pretend this isn’t real, and problematic. You can’t act as if all 
> people are rational actors, if they were the free market system would have 
> worked! (Ok last line was open trolling, Jim)
> 
> Best
> 
> Joshua Case
> jwc...@gmail.com 
> 
> “International tensions. Mounting international tensions. First there were 
> states of precautionary alert, then there were enhanced readiness centers. 
> This was followed by maximum arc situational preparedness. We can measure the 
> gravity of events by tracing the increasingly abstract nature of the 
> terminology. One more level of vagueness and that could be it."
> 
>> On Mar 3, 2017, at 11:16 AM, jim bell > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[Joshua Case]

Though you would agree that this exists though, and is of late gaining momentum 
of some sort, yes?

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t4359/ 


And while it pretends to play nice, you are never a click away from overtly 
fascist neo-nazi siege-heiling in front of a camera.

I defend the right to speech that I do not agree with, but war starts in speech 
- and things are escalating. It’s not just  a sense I’ve got, you can look at 
the attendance and participation changes.

You cannot pretend this isn’t real, and problematic. You can’t act as if all 
people are rational actors, if they were the free market system would have 
worked! (Ok last line was open trolling, Jim)

Best

Joshua Case
jwc...@gmail.com 

“International tensions. Mounting international tensions. First there were 
states of precautionary alert, then there were enhanced readiness centers. This 
was followed by maximum arc situational preparedness. We can measure the 
gravity of events by tracing the increasingly abstract nature of the 
terminology. One more level of vagueness and that could be it."

> On Mar 3, 2017, at 11:16 AM, jim bell  wrote:
> 
> 

Long, but very good: About Anti-Fascists and Anarchism

[jim bell]

https://attackthesystem.com/2017/02/22/against-the-anti-fascist-creeps/


[partial quote follows]
Academic Gloss for the AntifaFor decades, a minor cottage industry of 
professional “anti-racists” and “anti-fascists” has existed for the purpose of 
perpetually sounding the alarm about the imminent threat posed by supposed “far 
right extremists.” The most well-known and influential of these is the Southern 
Poverty Law Center, which has raked in millions of dollars largely by 
frightening elderly liberals and Jews old enough to remember the Holocaust with 
hobgoblin tales about the supposedly persistent rise of neo-Nazism in America. 
The fundraising tactics of the SPLC are nearly identical to those of 
televangelists soliciting funds from elderly Christians by spinning tales about 
the supposed infiltration of the public schools by gay pedophiles. If one reads 
the literature of the SPLC and, for example, the publications of religious 
right organizations such as Focus on the Family and Coral Ridge Ministries, 
parallel themes will soon become noticeable. While the SPLC and a similar 
organization, the Anti-Defamation League, are the major league players in the 
“anti-fascism” industry, there are a number of minor league players as well 
ranging from the Ford Foundation-funded (how is that for irony?) Political 
Research Associates to AK Press, a small publisher oriented towards the 
“antifa” sector of the wider “anarchist” milieu.The antifa (an abbreviation for 
“anti-fascist”) are a loose collection of leftist youth gangs that exist 
primarily in Europe and the United States, and whose participants typically 
fancy themselves as front line warriors against the always imminent Fourth 
Reich. In reality, the antifa are largely a collection of overgrown juvenile 
delinquents specializing in petty vandalism and stalking activities. The antifa 
occasionally engage in physical assaults, but only when they greatly outnumber 
their intended victims, and with the most defenseless people often being the 
target. I have personally witnessed the antifa attacking both women and elderly 
people. When the antifa have targeted more formidable enemies, their limited 
capabilities as street fighters have been quickly revealed. During a 
confrontation with members of white nationalist organizations in Sacramento 
during the summer of 2016, a group of approximately 200 “anti-fascists” 
attempted a swarm attack on about 30 members of the “right-wing” organizations 
that were present. Half a dozen of the antifa consequently received stab wounds 
in what was a pretty puny performance on their part, to say the least.Multiple 
individual writers also exist who attempt to provide an academic gloss for the 
antifa, including Chip Berlet, Matthew Lyons, Spencer “Sunshine,” and others. 
One such individual is Alexander Reid-Ross whom the leftist webzine Truth-Out 
describes as a geography instructor at Portland State University. Reid-Ross 
recently released a book titled “Against the Fascist Creep,” published by the 
previously mentioned AK Press. This book has since been praised in some leftist 
circles so it is interesting to take a look at its actual claims and 
arguments.The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Thule“Against the Fascist 
Creep” presents a lengthy narrative that purports to outline the means by which 
“fascists” are supposedly engaged in a persistent and ongoing effort to 
infiltrate and co-opt the left in order to advance one or another nefarious 
agenda. Reid-Ross takes his seemingly intricate knowledge of “far right” 
movements and organizations and spins this into a conspiracy narrative about 
the endless effort by fascists to infiltrate the perpetually beleaguered and 
victimized left. How does this “fascist creep” actually work? Reid-Ross 
describes two methods:
“Hence, fascism creeps in two ways: (1) it draws left-wing notions of 
solidarity and liberation into ultranationalist, right-wing ideology; and (2), 
at least in its early stages, fascists often utilize ‘broad front’ strategies, 
proposing a mass-based nationalist platform to gain access to mainstream 
political audiences and key administrative positions.”