Re: Ex- Tor devs
just to clarify here, my understanding is that is a non-moderated community and any list-wide moderation is non-forthright and appropriately called censorship. if the posts here become scalpel-like targeted mind control made by powerful ai slavery systems to turn us all into hamburgers, that's dangerous and people should be appropriately warned. but in general excessive posting would be considered self-doxing, the poster or their organisation opening themselves to being tracked by quiet hackers. dunno whether that's actually true. personally i've seen communities collapse repeatedly from spam. i infer many solutions exist.
Cevap: Re: Ex- Tor devs
> I believe in free speech. With the right to free speech comes responsibility. Flooding an email forum with off-topic posts is also censorship as it makes the on-topic posts much harder to find and be read. You believe in free speech but you're ratting the people in here.You remind us of American law but you think you're cypherpunk.LOL
RE: Ex- Tor devs
-Original Message- From: cypherpunks [mailto:cypherpunks-boun...@lists.cpunks.org] On Behalf Of Shawn K. Quinn Sent: Thursday, 03 February 2022 11:23 PM To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: Ex- Tor devs >On 2/3/22 22:06, lolwut wrote: >> *That* is how men handled things on the wild, free, and chaotic >> expanse that is cyberspace. >That's the law of the jungle, analogous to two cavemen banging each >other with the equivalent of the biggest clubs they can find until one >dies surrenders. >I'd like to think we as a society are more civilized than that. Well, now, I thought that this was a crypto-*anarchist* mailing list that believed in freedom. Let me guess, you think that DDoS'ing should be illegal, and also that the CFAA shouldn't be repealed? That state of affairs which I previously described was the Internet I grew up with, and the one to which I wholeheartedly believe we should return. Excuse me, but things are getting a bit too authoritarian tonight for my tastes.
RE: Ex- Tor devs
-Original Message- From: cypherpunks [mailto:cypherpunks-boun...@lists.cpunks.org] On Behalf Of Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 Sent: Thursday, 03 February 2022 11:27 PM To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: Ex- Tor devs >On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 23:06:10 -0500 >"lolwut" wrote: >> Regarding the topic of DoS/DDoS attacks, did you know that they are illegal >> in the U.S., Punk? > I assumed they were, but now that you mention it, I just remembered there used to be services to 'stress test' websites that could be used to do DoS attacks in practice? And you could pay with a credit card =P If there are, I fully support their existence and use. It is an absurdity that DDoS'ing is illegal in none other than the "land of freedom". >> (I am aware that you live outside of this country, so I >> wanted to verify.) I recall the days when imageboard communities used to >> DDoS each other all the time, and there was a sort of a gentleman's >> agreement that no side would run to law enforcement with their tails behind >> their legs, and snitch on the other fellow; instead, if somebody DDoS'd your >> site or server, you would DDoS theirs in retaliation. *That* is how men >> handled things on the wild, free, and chaotic expanse that is cyberspace. >> > hehehe =) It's always fun to reminisce about the glory days!
Re: Ex- Tor devs
On 2/3/22 22:06, lolwut wrote: > *That* is how men handled things on the wild, free, and chaotic > expanse that is cyberspace. That's the law of the jungle, analogous to two cavemen banging each other with the equivalent of the biggest clubs they can find until one dies surrenders. I'd like to think we as a society are more civilized than that. -- Shawn K. Quinn http://www.rantroulette.com http://www.skqrecordquest.com
RE: Ex- Tor devs
-Original Message- From: cypherpunks [mailto:cypherpunks-boun...@lists.cpunks.org] On Behalf Of Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 Sent: Thursday, 03 February 2022 10:50 PM To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: Ex- Tor devs >On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 21:20:03 -0600 >"Shawn K. Quinn" wrote: >> Okay, 100,000 messages per day, and 99,995 of them are "Enlarge your >> penis > making bullshit up as you go eh? Yeah sending 100,000 messages per day would be a pretty heavy DoS attack - and that has exactly fuck to do with sending 3 ON-TOPIC messages per day with content you don't like. Which was the reason why were banned. Regarding the topic of DoS/DDoS attacks, did you know that they are illegal in the U.S., Punk? (I am aware that you live outside of this country, so I wanted to verify.) I recall the days when imageboard communities used to DDoS each other all the time, and there was a sort of a gentleman's agreement that no side would run to law enforcement with their tails behind their legs, and snitch on the other fellow; instead, if somebody DDoS'd your site or server, you would DDoS theirs in retaliation. *That* is how men handled things on the wild, free, and chaotic expanse that is cyberspace.
RE: Ex- Tor devs
-Original Message- From: cypherpunks [mailto:cypherpunks-boun...@lists.cpunks.org] On Behalf Of Shawn K. Quinn Sent: Thursday, 03 February 2022 10:21 PM To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: Ex- Tor devs >On 2/3/22 20:38, lolwut wrote: >> This is one of the least cypherpunk things I have ever read on this list. >> Why the hell are you even here, Shawn? >Because the moderator hasn't removed me yet. Hah, so you do have a sense of humor after all. Even though you wrote complete nonsense earlier, I wouldn't want you to be censored, either.
RE: Ex- Tor devs
-Original Message- From: cypherpunks [mailto:cypherpunks-boun...@lists.cpunks.org] On Behalf Of Shawn K. Quinn Sent: Thursday, 03 February 2022 10:20 PM To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: Ex- Tor devs >On 2/3/22 21:16, lolwut wrote: >> No, you're wrong here; I wouldn't care, for I can employ filtering or >> simply skip past the spam. Merely making certain posts harder to find >> and read is nowhere near the same as preventing the posts from even >> being sent in the first place. Do not censor the source, but instead >> let each recipient decide which messages he wishes to see on his >> end. >Okay, 100,000 messages per day, and 99,995 of them are "Enlarge your >penis with these Nicaraguan pharmacy pills". What's the point of >continuing to download thousands of crap messages just to maybe get the >few worth reading? Yet how simple would it be to filter all this? >You see how it's censorship to flood a list with off-topic crap now? >If not, imagine the mailing list host turning off the list because there's simply too much spam. Maybe in extreme edge cases like this, but even then I cannot ever see how any reasonable person could think to get law enforcement involved, as you had earlier indicated; again, it is blowing something far out of proportion, and crying to the government for help rather than seeking other solutions.
Re: Ex- Tor devs
On 2/3/22 20:38, lolwut wrote: > This is one of the least cypherpunk things I have ever read on this list. > Why the hell are you even here, Shawn? Because the moderator hasn't removed me yet. -- Shawn K. Quinn http://www.rantroulette.com http://www.skqrecordquest.com
Re: Ex- Tor devs
On 2/3/22 20:51, lolwut wrote: > Meanwhile, you were the one who advocated for getting law enforcement > and the government involved over something as innocuous as ban > evasion. Ban evasion for the purpose of continuing to post off-topic garbage to an online forum (email list), so effectively ban evasion for the purpose of furthering censorship (hindering legitimate use of the forum). -- Shawn K. Quinn http://www.rantroulette.com http://www.skqrecordquest.com
RE: Ex- Tor devs
-Original Message- From: cypherpunks [mailto:cypherpunks-boun...@lists.cpunks.org] On Behalf Of Shawn K. Quinn Sent: Wednesday, 02 February 2022 9:07 PM To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: Ex- Tor devs [snip] >If you are so stupid as to believe this I don't know what else there is to say. >Legal remedies are undertaken so as to avoid the use of violence. [snip] Except that, in this case, it was mere ban evasion for posting off-topic messages on a mailing list. Do you really, honestly believe that any actual violence would have resulted from this? Meanwhile, you were the one who advocated for getting law enforcement and the government involved over something as innocuous as ban evasion. While I don't disagree in general with your statement that "Legal remedies are undertaken so as to avoid the use of violence", in this instance you were so utterly, embarrassingly, and stupidly wrong that I simply could not refrain from pointing it out.
RE: Ex- Tor devs
-Original Message- From: cypherpunks [mailto:cypherpunks-boun...@lists.cpunks.org] On Behalf Of Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 Sent: Wednesday, 02 February 2022 6:32 PM To: cypherpunks@lists.cpunks.org Subject: Re: Ex- Tor devs [snip] > Shawn K. Quinn : "To infiltrate an e-mail list originated from private computer systems with off-topic posts, and then to threaten to continue doing so despite being banned from that list is against the law in most states and I believe violates Federal law ... I support the Tor Project taking legal action against any such offenders if that becomes necessary." Christ, this sounds *exactly* what I would expect some sixty-something computer-illiterate Boomer to say. We aren't even talking about, e.g., posts attempting to incite violence or threatening somebody, but merely *off-topic* replies, and Shawn here wants to get law enforcement involved over mere ban evasion? Truly, this is an example of blowing something far out of proportion, and running to the government for help like a little bitch over something that, firstly, is not even that serious, and, secondly, is an inevitable part of the Internet. This is one of the least cypherpunk things I have ever read on this list. Why the hell are you even here, Shawn? [snip]
Re: Ex- Tor devs
Some [ex-] employees and minions have been known to try playing and failed, unfortunate that people in whatever their next destinations may have to tolerate, or leave to avoid, them. Yet more interesting, and supportable and good, could be some new ex's who change and leave to come and speak out for better things and ways. Whistleblowing and leaking shall never cease to be valid forms of self expression conscience rehabilitation freedom new direction high free speech etc. Also of consideration could be that private topic lists that do not claim to be providing any free and open goods/services/speech to the public, could have more basis for blocking than the tor fora which hypocritically claims to be for open free speech and providing such things in the public interest... that requires high free speech to even come close to succeeding on such goal. Saying that you have public fora to come talk about tor, then not allowing people to talk about tor... is high public failure. Peanut-Butter-Soup is right... Calling for govt enforcement (ultimately murder) against free speech in ostensibly public fora seems quite poor. It is also unknown how long those who call for that would survive in less hypocritical speaking places such as Speakers Corner or the equivalent spaces in their country, before running away bleating for Govt Enforcement against free speech. And the resulting loss to their own free speech would be immense. Tor Project Incorporated are known censors and hypocrites. Same for two other lists that hypocritically claim and advertise to be all about free speech. Dishonesty about, and hypocrisy of, freespeech... is fraud. Either way, Tor Project has been exposed and cannot be considered as being for freedom of speech in that way. Donors, users, devs, and operators can decide for themselves if that matters to them. If it does, then Tor the software should be forked far away from Tor Project and its minions. Regardless of Tor, completely new p2p network projects should definitely be started up to compete with tor. Not least because an infamous spy agency admitted... "Tor Stinks -- NSA"
Re: Ex- Tor devs
On 2/2/22 20:21, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote: > you are a government agent because you advocate all kinds of > government crimes. It doesn't matter if you get directly paid and are > listed on their payroll or are paid by 'indirect' means. And even if > you didn't get any benefit, you would still be an agent if > you amorally sided with them. Like you do. I don't know what you're under the influence of, but please don't ingest these substances before posting in the future. -- Shawn K. Quinn http://www.rantroulette.com http://www.skqrecordquest.com
Re: Ex- Tor devs
On 2/2/22 19:56, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote: > > > quinn wrote : >> I support the Tor Project taking legal action against any such >> offenders if that becomes necessary > > quinn wrote : >> There was no mention of murder in that message, and I despise >> violence in all its forms. > > > so quinn is calling for US government * to take 'legal actions' > while at the same time pretending that he 'despises violence'. It > looks as if quinn doesn't understand that the 'legal actions' of the > US government are just violence and will ultimately result in the > targets of such 'actions' being murderer, if they try to assert their > human rights. If you are so stupid as to believe this I don't know what else there is to say. Legal remedies are undertaken so as to avoid the use of violence. > so quinn claims "I despise violence" while calling for violence. That > is how stupid government agents are. I'm not calling for violence, and once again: I do not now and have never worked for any government agency, and further, I likely never will. This includes Federal, state, city, county, whether United States or foreign. If you had actually read my blogs, you would know that I'm far too vocal of a critic of idiotic government actions (particularly local police) to express that viewpoint openly and remain employed in whatever cushy government job you think I have. -- Shawn K. Quinn http://www.rantroulette.com http://www.skqrecordquest.com
Re: Ex- Tor devs
On 2/2/22 19:13, Punk-BatSoup-Stasi 2.0 wrote: > quinn, another cookie cutter US government agent. Again, false. In case you missed it: I DO NOT NOW, NOR HAVE I EVER, WORKED FOR ANY GOVERNMENT AGENCY. If this fixation of yours that I'm somehow working for the government wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious. -- Shawn K. Quinn http://www.rantroulette.com http://www.skqrecordquest.com
Re: Ex- Tor devs
He didn't like his old coworkers' code skills! LOL he told some of them (Tor devs) he didn't even trust a dinner plan. Now he says he's not a Tor employee?LOL He's just one of the winners of wealth by deceiving people
