Re: Governance vs Decentralised Systems, Gold, Cash, Bitcoin

2017-03-21 Thread grarpamp
Antonopoulos on...

Governance failures, trades, and markets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pJEEVEmEVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtwaW79Fj7c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdknUUVOdHU
etc

Biggest threats and scare stories
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhKIKB6cn6w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-XUbH1F0Os

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci7TyD8jETY


Re: Governance vs Decentralised Systems, Gold, Cash, Bitcoin

2017-03-21 Thread \0xDynamite
> There's certainly lots of real world governance models
> to try to draft and execute.
>
> Then there's another problem
> 1) Governance in the first place.
> and / or
> 2) That it's run by humans who are by nature corrupt.

Humans are not corrupt by nature.  They have self-interest, that is
all.  Humans will sacrifice immediate self-interest if it leads to a
greater goal (enlightend self-interest).

The situation in our current world is that humanity has adapted to an
extremely pathological condition where they've been made to both
powerless and under a delusion of powerless at the same time.   In any
event, this inherent, yet unconscious wrong makes people act covertly
corrupted, or passive-aggressive.

The other problem is how unreal the interactions at the top are.  They
are expected to act at a level of professionalism and decorum that
simply does not exist in any reasonable manner.  It's as if they were
raised in a long-royal family and now settling in at their post, yet
most of these people are grossly incompetent, given the demands -- the
system has simply accumulated enormous deferred maintenance and like
any system that has been neglected, the problems get amplified until
collapse.

The strange thing is that it's all still running --either its an
illusion or it's being propped up by some extrernal force (God?) to
prevent total breakdown.

In any event, there's a page on governance on the hackerspaces wiki
which is quite interesting vis. the anarchist Will for non-governance.
(Full disclosure:  It's written under a quasi-anonymous account, some
of which is me. ;^)

\0xD


Re: Governance vs Decentralised Systems, Gold, Cash, Bitcoin

2017-03-21 Thread juan
On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 02:27:39 -0400
grarpamp  wrote:


> AI bots could execute within a novel network to
> - provide governance over humans,


Ah yes. You don't think human stupidity is enough, that's why
you want to 'enhance' it with Artificial Stupidity? 





Re: Governance vs Decentralised Systems, Gold, Cash, Bitcoin

2017-03-20 Thread grarpamp
There's certainly lots of real world governance models
to try to draft and execute.

Then there's another problem
1) Governance in the first place.
and / or
2) That it's run by humans who are by nature corrupt.

There could simply be some type of free for all network,
new block refer to prior block, fork at will, solicit
trust and longest chain adoption rather than sell it.

Networks could be made to simply refuse to transact if parameters
ever change... design it, launch it, and forget it, sink or swim.
Users move their value from ship to ship.

AI bots could execute within a novel network to
- provide governance over humans, acceptance of patches.
and or
- adjust network paramaters by trial and error thus learning
to solve its own problems.

Some new networks may be created anonymously, where changes
are locked to the anonymous creator by the AI. If creator
disappears without key handoff, the net goes sink or swim
at that point. Benevolent creator can quietly in
safety cherry pick from some git repo community.
Some users may just trust creator, or choose various
creator nets that have some high vote% rollback and
creator freeze options.

Some many unexplored models and new ideas to yet come up with.


Re: Governance vs Decentralised Systems, Gold, Cash, Bitcoin

2017-03-18 Thread Joshua
There's some really good points here. We've been exploring the styles of 
governance ourselves with the Zen project and we've unintentionally mirrored 
the founding of the United States (for better or less). After a period of 
private collaboration we decided to use a synergistic model using Core Officers 
which are elected to provide governance for the project and also to govern 
initiatives that the DAO has funded. This is matched with a DAO which provides 
funding for projects and ultimately decides on Core officers (and their fate). 
Instead of absolute stalemate as seen with Bitcoin & Bitcoin Unlimited, there 
are many ways both the Core and DAO could incentivize and also resist change if 
they were to become oppositional.

And let's not lost sight here that Satoshi himself could probably be identified 
as a benevolent dictator because he did indeed build a system nearly by himself 
and there are persons today that still try to carry out his will. In fact, some 
believe that any alteration that breaks the current Bitcoin model is only a 
corruption of the true spirit of Bitcoin.

All hail Satoshi.

@movrcx
https://zencash.io

Sent from [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.ch), encrypted email based in 
Switzerland.

 Original Message 
Subject: Governance vs Decentralised Systems, Gold, Cash, Bitcoin
Local Time: March 18, 2017 3:58 PM
UTC Time: March 18, 2017 7:58 PM
From: grarp...@gmail.com
To: cypherpu...@cpunks.org

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtwaW79Fj7c
Governance problems which have allowed skeptics in the media to
latch on to the failures of decentralised systems. Decentralisation
isn't a Boolean, it's a range. Is it much more decentralised than
anything we've built before, including its governance? Yes. You
will not notice that developers and miners really don't have control
to effect change until something goes wrong, until there's a highly
contentious issue. They may want to offer a straightforward, direct,
and simple solution, but the system won't let them do that. Lead
developers can make limited decisions about what they include in
the code, but with blockchains you can either have opinions or
continue to make money; if your opinions get too strong, you stop
making money. Governance in these systems is tricky because by
making those explicit trade-offs, we get liberty. If you want to
have quick / simple / easy solutions, you will elect a dictator.
The trains may run on time, but the destination might be a death
camp, an efficient operation for killing people. Democracy is
incredibly inefficient, but we practice it anyway because we
appreciate the trade-offs that it gives us: self-expression;
self-determination; freedom of association, of religion, of
consciousness. Governance in network-centric systems are open to
permissionless access and innovation, systems which exhibit a very
high degree of autonomy and censorship resistance. The price we pay
is that our debates are loud, messy, and sometimes don't end, because
there's no centralised authority to filter everyone's opinions;
that's how corporations and governments run. We've tried that, and
if we want that kind of money, we have that kind of money. The
bottom line is that this not an accident, it's an explicit trade-off:
efficiency is the price we pay to buy liberty. I will pay that price
because I can apply engineering optimisation to efficiency; Bitcoin
and Ethereum were the first times I could apply engineering
optimisation to liberty.

Currency Wars, Bitcoin Neutrality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0o_Mg5hY4g
Shorter Version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diw-5vWVW5o
India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J_RVI0ZdRE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLNZ_ydSqnM
No Gold, No Wedding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUr2E4dfs0Y

https://financial-risk-solutions.thomsonreuters.info/GFMS
https://trmcs-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/377d4e994bb540b286d7ccf30b81bece_20160331023311_gfms_gold_survey_2016_2.pdf
https://trmcs-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/377d4e994bb540b286d7ccf30b81bece_20160505120341_World%20Silver%20Survey%202016.pdf
https://trmcs-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/377d4e994bb540b286d7ccf30b81bece_20160512074418_GFMS%20Platinum%20Group%20Metals%20Survey%202016.pdf
https://trmcs-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/377d4e994bb540b286d7ccf30b81bece_2016040503_GFMS%20Copper%20Survey%202016.pdf
https://trmcs-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/ec6fa1ac9669b3b012c8275107819088_20161026080134_GFMS%20Base%20Metals%20Review%202016Final.pdf

Bitcoin
https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/volume/30d
https://coinmarketcap.com/