Re: Comments on and about e-privacy in Canada

[Tim May]

At 1:55 AM -0400 10/8/00, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
>I do hope Robert thinks through this. Or maybe this is another 
>example of cypherpunk thinking not meshing well with Canada. Austin 
>of ZKS spoke Wednesday here in DC, and his comments are relayed to 
>me from another speaker who is sympathetic to his position:
>
>>Austin H. made an interesting point this morning
>>at the WSJ Tech Summit. He pointed out that for
>>all the grumbling about government rules, no
>>hi-tech CEO would seriously recommend abolishing
>>the SEC.
>
>Perhaps. But some cypherpunks might argue for it, in the stronger 
>case, or in the weaker, simply argue that the SEC will become less 
>and less relevant.

"O'Brien pointed out that for all the grumbling about the rules for 
writers imposed by the Ministry of Truth, not one of the accredited 
writers and publishers would seriously recommend abolishing MiniTru."

He went on to say,

"To do so would be to bring on "literary anarchy," with no control 
over top-down reputations, no recourse for incorrect thoughts, and 
the spread of peer-to-peer, aka prole-to-prole, communications."

Back to our reality...

The SEC has valid _contractual enforcement_ roles. I haven't worked 
out all the details, but I'm sure a free market rating/credentially 
agency could handle most of the chores, with various forms of private 
law (polymorphic law, a la Benson's "The Enterprise of Law, circa 
1990-91). Caveat emptor...it's not as though we're not flooded with 
plenty of information on which to base decisions.

Most of what the SEC does is not too terribly unlibertarian, though 
some of the recent moves to make "financial advisors" more 
"accountable" is disturbing. Even opinions expressed on bulletin 
boards and chat rooms and newsgroups may soon come under their 
control...so much for the First Amendment. "("It's for the 
investors!")

However, I don't get the thrust of Austin's comments. Perhaps he'll 
read this and add some detail.

Certainly the practical effect of a _real_ 2-way anonymous 
communication system will be to basically _gut_ the core of the SEC. 
Proles will be able to talk up stocks, spread rumors, all the usual 
stuff expected in a free society. (The recent case of the LA-based 
young man who shorted Emulex and then faked a press release has been 
discussed many times. In a free society, his communications could 
better be protected against traceability. On the other hand, digital 
signatures from a company would be expected. Trust the laws of 
mathematics, not the laws of men.)

If Austin is drawing conclusions that we _need_ an SEC, then perhaps 
the flaws and delays people are reporting for ZKS are indicative of a 
deeper issue. Maybe ZKS plans to make their system "meet the 
legitimate needs of law enforcement."

The Thought Police will be thrilled.


--Tim May

-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

Re: How the Feds will try to ban strong anonymity

[Steve Furlong]

Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> >... Restricting strong
> >anonymity means key escrow.)
> 
> Perhaps I overstated my argument above. It seems to me that if the Feds
> want to restrict strong anonymity, they have some choices:
<>
> Anything else?

Routinely monitor communications lines. Allow unlimited data collection
for traffic analysis.

Allow monitoring of content. Make the use of crypto prima facie evidence
of criminal intent. (Begin a public awareness campaign comparing having
crypto on your computer to walking around a parking lot with a
slim-jim.) Allow seizure of hardware or black bag bugging. To show we're
tough on cyber-criminals, we'll allow it without a judge's signature.
This hits a lot more than anonymity, of course, but it's for the
chldren.

Require ISPs to get a license to operate. Terms can be set arbitrarily
high. (Bonus points if you make them pay for the monitoring hardware,
software, and governmental labor.)

Require (though allowing might be enough) telcos to place limits on the
kind of traffic that may pass over their wires. If a block doesn't have
full headers identifying source and destination (both of which must be
registered with some, uh, registry) it can't pass.

Mandate IPv6, with the embedded MAC address or whatever they were going
to put in it.

Processor IDs, a la P-III, which must be encoded in all sorts of
traffic.

Don't allow unsigned email; require that all internet users get a
signing certificate from the Post Office, which of course can tie certs
to computer IDs, TrueNames, and land address.


In general, look at what China is doing. Britain and Russia, too.


About a year ago I put some work into a book, _Crashing the Web_
(working title, of course). It focused on governmental or corporate
options to kill the Wild Wild West. I abandoned the book around December
when someone, I forgot who, came out with a book covering much of the
same ground. I might be able to resurrect some of my notes and early
drafts, but they were probably lost to my boneheaded drive wipe six
months ago. (Yes, I make backups. Yes, I encrypt my backups. No, I don't
necessarily remember the passwords. Yes, I'm a retard.) Drop me a line
if you'd like me to rummage around.


Thanks a lot. I was about to go to bed, and now I'll have Big Brotherish
dreams.

-- 
Steve Furlong, Computer Condottiere Have GNU, will travel
   518-374-4720 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

How the Feds will try to ban strong anonymity

[Declan McCullagh]

I wrote in another thread:
>framework to reasonably exist. Cypherpunkish technology will create 
>underground markets, anonymous distribution methods, and so on, and the 
>only way to enforce such regulations will be for the Feds/Mounties to take 
>drastic steps. (For instance, strong anonymity is an emergent property of 
>a distributed network combined with strong encryption. Restricting strong 
>anonymity means key escrow.)

Perhaps I overstated my argument above. It seems to me that if the Feds 
want to restrict strong anonymity, they have some choices:

* Make it a felony (death penalty may have some deterrent effect) to take 
advantage of it.
* Require key escrow/key recovery/message recovery/Clipper
* Require that anonymous remailers or similar devices implement identity 
escrow/keep logs
* Ban Internet service providers/backbone providers from accepting traffic 
from an anonymous remailer node (a tricky tactic, this, since end-of-chain 
remailers are relatively few compared to the middle-of-chain ones, at least 
today).
* Do the same thing with outgoing traffic directed to the first remailer node
* Ban the operation or hosting of remailers, and work internationally to do 
the same thing, through G8, Council of Europe, UN

Anything else?

-Declan

Re: Comments on and about e-privacy in Canada

[Declan McCullagh]

At 16:38 10/6/2000 -0700, Tim May wrote, in response to Robert Guerra:
>Again you show yourself to be uncritical of these claims. You don't "get it."
>[...]
>The solution is not a regimen of data privacy laws but tecnologies to 
>enable consumers to remain private. Those who "give permission" for their 
>refrigerator to contact some outside party have made their choice.

Right. There are solid principled reasons to oppose government regulations 
on what people can and can't do with information. Let them make up their 
own minds instead. There are also economic arguments, as Richard Epstein 
recently spoke about (http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,38893,00.html).

But there are even better, IMHO, technological reasons to oppose such 
government rules. As technology advances and more data become available for 
sale or exchange, it will be very difficult for a Canadian/European 
regulatory framework to reasonably exist. Cypherpunkish technology will 
create underground markets, anonymous distribution methods, and so on, and 
the only way to enforce such regulations will be for the Feds/Mounties to 
take drastic steps. (For instance, strong anonymity is an emergent property 
of a distributed network combined with strong encryption. Restricting 
strong anonymity means key escrow.)

I do hope Robert thinks through this. Or maybe this is another example of 
cypherpunk thinking not meshing well with Canada. Austin of ZKS spoke 
Wednesday here in DC, and his comments are relayed to me from another 
speaker who is sympathetic to his position:

>Austin H. made an interesting point this morning
>at the WSJ Tech Summit. He pointed out that for
>all the grumbling about government rules, no
>hi-tech CEO would seriously recommend abolishing
>the SEC.

Perhaps. But some cypherpunks might argue for it, in the stronger case, or 
in the weaker, simply argue that the SEC will become less and less relevant.

-Declan

Re: Guys, I need help

[Bill Stewart]

At 07:08 PM 10/6/00 -0700, M. Emad Ul Hasan wrote:
>   Your anonymizer.com is blocked in Saudi Arabia via proxy.  
>Can you tell me a way I can see this site 

There are lots of open proxy servers, which will let you access
other sites by setting your web proxy to use them.
I don't have a list handy, but most search engines will make it easy
to look for them.  

Also, does the proxy block the IP address, or only the domain name?
If it blocks by name, use the IP address.  If it blocks by IP address,
write the administrators of anonymizer.com to see if they've
got alternative IP addresses.


Also, see if your proxy blocks spaceproxy.com.
Thanks! 
Bill
Bill Stewart, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

Re: Niiice kitty....

[Reese]

At 12:19 AM 08/10/00 -0400, James A.. Donald wrote:

 >Chomsky made some remarkable claims, which I have quoted, for the
 >existence of some remarkable evidence.
 >
 >So are you claiming that this alleged evidence seemingly cited by Chomsky
 >exists, or are you denying that Chomsky claimed the existence of this
 >evidence?

Learn how to read - and comprehend - what I type.
Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

 >Choose one story and stick to it.

I try not to emulate broken records on a Victrola that plays too slow.

 >If you claim the evidence cited by Chomsky exists, where is it?  If
 >you deny that Chomsky cited this very remarkable evidence, then let us
 >once again go over his words.
 >
 >Commit yourself to one excuse or the other excuse.

Commit myself to one prepared excuse or another?  Natch on that, I've told
you three times my position on all of this, I'll not repeat myself now.

You have provided new info, I'll be looking into it - even though a part
of it is checking to see whether you've quoted your own webpage accurately.

Reese

Re: Niiice kitty....

[James A.. Donald]

 --
At 09:55 PM 10/7/2000 -0400, Reese wrote:
 > You are the entity making the allegations, yet Chomsky remains as
 > accredited in some circles as he ever was.

Chomsky made some remarkable claims, which I have quoted, for the
existence of some remarkable evidence.

So are you claiming that this alleged evidence seemingly cited by Chomsky
exists, or are you denying that Chomsky claimed the existence of this
evidence?

Choose one story and stick to it.

If you claim the evidence cited by Chomsky exists, where is it?  If
you deny that Chomsky cited this very remarkable evidence, then let us
once again go over his words.

Commit yourself to one excuse or the other excuse.

 --digsig
  James A. Donald
  6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
  5fUvqkQv7jG0Klmp29kCBYrlIHn5dCXZ5GTGduqj
  4kTN3SFbxObY8otmB/uYKSwW/pI2lprFHgj9rKSc6

Re: Niiice kitty....

[James A.. Donald]

 --
At 08:36 PM 10/7/2000 -0700, James A.. Donald wrote:
Chomsky before 1979:  (falsely purporting to be quoting "highly qualified 
specialists")
: : executions have numbered at most in the thousands; that
: : these were localized in areas of limited Khmer Rouge
: : influence and unusual peasant discontent, where brutal
: : revenge killings were aggravated by the threat of
: : starvation resulting from the American destruction and
: : killing


I am guilty of oversimplification here:

Chomsky and Herman 's claim to be quoting highly qualified specialists is 
true in the sense that one journalist who specialized in covering asia did 
offer opinions (opinions, not the promised evidence) somewhat similar to 
those that Chomsky described, but false in that the opinions of the cited 
"highly qualifed specialists" were considerably more cautious and less 
extreme than those attributed to them by Chomsky and Herman.

When Chomsky talks of "analyses by highly qualified experts" he is 
referring to the same people that Shawcross depicts as inexperienced stringers:

Shawcross  tells us:
: : Through 1974, however, as more and more reports of Khmer
: : Rouge brutality began to seep out of the growing areas
: : that they controlled, some journalists began to wonder
: : whether postwar reconciliation would be as easy as they
: : had hoped. In March 1974, the Baltimore Sun correspondent
: : wrote of "the incomprehensible brutality of the Khmer
: : Rouge communists"; the Washington Post reported on how the
: : Khmer Rouge were "restructuring people." Sydney Schanberg
: : of The New York Times wrote about the joy with which
: : refugees escaped Khmer Rouge control at Kompong Thom.
: : James Fenton wrote in the New Statesman of the fear with
: : which some Khmers were beginning to talk of the other
: : side. In the fall of 1974, journalists learned of Sar
: : Sarsdam, a village near Slem Reap, which had been burned
: : by the Khmer Rouge and in which, according to Catholic
: : Relief Services workers, over sixty peasants had been
: : brutally killed. Old women were reported to have been
: : nailed to the walls of their homes before being burned
: : alive. Children had been torn apart by hand.
: :
: : Even so, there were few journalists in Phnom Penh who
: : wanted to believe the blood-bath theory. It had been
: : invoked so often by United States officials in defense of
: : a policy with which most of those same journalists
: : disagreed, that there was a tendency in the final days of
: : the war to dismiss the United States Ambassador John
: : Gunther Dean and other officials who harped on Sar Sarsdam
: : as hawks who wished to prolong the war. Martin Woollacott
: : of the Guardian later recalled with pain that some
: : journalists sang a little song to the tune of "She Was
: : Poor but She Was Honest":
: :
: : Oh will there be a dreadful bloodbath
: : When the Khmer Rouge come to town?
: : Aye, there'll be a dreadful bloodbath
: : When the Khmer Rouge come to town.
: :
: : When the Khmer Rouge did come to town, in April 1975, only
: : a few foreigners remained in Phnom Penh. Closeted in the
: : French Embassy they watched, at first more astonished than
: : appalled, as the victorious young army began to empty the
: : entire city at gunpoint. Hospital patients, refugees,
: : schoolchildren, all had to take one of the main roads out
: : of the city. Most of the Cambodians in the Embassy were
: : ordered to leave its supposed sanctuary and to trek into
: : the countryside as well. The foreigners were then trucked
: : to the Thai border. From then on, the Khmer Rouge closed
: : Cambodia almost completely from the outside world and
: : embarked upon one of the most radical and bloody
: : revolutions in history.
: :
: : For the next three and a half years the few thousand
: : refugees who managed to escape to Thailand were the
: : principal source of news about the country. They told from
: : the start a consistent story of deaths from starvation and
: : exhaustion during the evacuation of Phnom Penh; of forced
: : evacuation of almost all the towns after Phnom Penh; of
: : relocation into new villages or work zones; of inadequate
: : food supplies and nonexistent medical care; of a rule of
: : terror conducted by young boys with AK-47s on behalf of a
: : shadowy, all-powerful organization known as Angka.
: : Refugees spoke of people being shot, clubbed to death or
: : buried alive for disobeying orders, asking questions or in
: : some other way infringing the rules that Angka laid down.
: : Among the dreadful tales they told were those of babies
: : being beaten to death against tree

Re: Niiice kitty....

[James A.. Donald]

 --
At 10:59 AM 10/7/2000 -1000, Reese wrote:
 > You've yet to make a coherent argument that will stand on its own

I have presented examples of Chomsky citing vaguely specified sources that 
supposedly provide evidence for all sorts of astonishing things, supposedly 
provide evidence for the then Soviet line, yet strange to report, no one is 
able to produce this alleged evidence. When the Soviet line changed, no one 
continued to claim these things were true.  In particular, no one continued 
to claim the existence of "repeated discoveries that massacre reports were 
false"

I have looked for this alleged evidence, and not found it.  It does not 
appear to exist.  It is the job of Chomsky's fans, not my job, to find 
these "repeated discoveries that massacre reports were false", and the rest.

That was an example of evidence that Chomsky claimed existed, but which 
does not exist.

 > Give me a valid, pre-79 quote, give me a valid, conflicting, post-79
 > quote, and tell me what is damning about the two quotes, if you can.

Chomsky before 1979:  (falsely purporting to be quoting "highly qualified 
specialists")
: : executions have numbered at most in the thousands; that
: : these were localized in areas of limited Khmer Rouge
: : influence and unusual peasant discontent, where brutal
: : revenge killings were aggravated by the threat of
: : starvation resulting from the American destruction and
: : killing

Chomsky after 1979, in the documentary film "Manufacturing Consent: Noam 
Chomsky and the Media" called the Khmer Rouge the perpetrators of the
: : worst atrocity of the modern era.

Of course a film citation is almost impossible to check.  I could be making 
up that citation in the same way that Chomsky makes up most of his 
citations, locating the bogus citations in hard to check places.  In fact I 
have never seen the movie and do not intend to see it, but fans of Chomsky 
endlessly cite those above words as evidence that Chomsky is not a 
supporter of the Khmer Rouge.  Just do a search for "worst atrocity of the 
modern era" in Deja News.  And indeed, what they claim is true:  Once 
Soviet policy changed, Chomsky was no longer a supporter of the Khmer Rouge.


 --digsig
  James A. Donald
  6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
  xqYRAjMOSnaZ+jIobjTAWT2jqUFDEhppFxi1B4H0
  4zhCSxvpXJfiyFBN7bgdDJM1ghMMrZqMV9Va6jPaj

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Re: Niiice kitty....

[Reese]

At 07:24 PM 07/10/00 -0400, James A.. Donald wrote:
 >At 02:12 PM 10/7/2000 -0400, Tim May wrote:
 > > As for Chomsky, I've been deleting all of the recent posts arguing
 > > pro- or con-Chomsky.
 >
 >You did not miss much.
 >
 >In the most recent Chomsky thread, all the same things were said, as have
 >been said so many times before.  Indeed, I have traced the canonical
 >Chomsky thread back to 1967.
 >
 >The canonical thread goes as follows:

You are the entity making the allegations, yet Chomsky remains as
accredited in some circles as he ever was.

Yours is to provide conclusive, irrefutable proof, not make wild
accusations.

If you've done this as many times as you've said, one would think
you had all the requested arguments, proofs and critiques readily
at hand.

Time is running out, for your credibility on this issue.

Reese

Re: Guys, I need help

[Leif Ericksen]

At 07:08 PM 10/6/00 -0700, you wrote: 
>
> Your anonymizer.com is blocked in Saudi Arabia via proxy. Can you tell me a
> way I can see this site



DEFECT and move to a country that allows access to the server!

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Re: Niiice kitty....

[Tim May]

At 1:42 PM -0400 10/7/00, Steve Furlong wrote:
>Ray Dillinger wrote:
>>
>>  Hi everybody;
>>
>>  I have no interest in Chomsky flames and wish they would die.
>>  In fact, I'm going to *MAKE* them die, for me at least, by
>>  filtering posts on chomsky's name.  (yes, this post right here
>>  is going into the bitbucket when it gets back to me from the
>>  list).
>>
>>  I'm just dropping this note to remind everyone who's tired of
>>  this argument that you also have the power to make your machine
>>  ignore it for you, thus saving you the trouble and bother of
>>  filtering through it to find actual relevant content.
>>
>>  If enough people ignore it, it *will* die.
>
>No, no, no. To judge by the list traffic, Cypherpunks don't write code.
>Cypherpunks don't make maximal use of the tools they have. Cypherpunks
>complain endlessly and engage in flamewars. I'm afraid your post was
>off-charter.

A cheap shot, as James Donald has written more crypto code than most 
here, by a wide margin. Cf. his "Kong" program.

As for "list traffic," it has been very low by historical standards 
for the past year or so. Only a handful of names--perhaps a 
dozen--account for 80% or more of all posts. There are many possible 
reasons for this, but this is another subject.

The point being that most keyboards have a "Delete" key, but very few 
have a "Create" key: it is always much easier to delete unwanted 
traffic than to cause new traffic to be created.

"Cypherpunks write code" has a certain meaning, often misinterpreted 
by newbies and other careless types as a statement that words are not 
important, only C or Java code matters. In fact, it has meaning more 
along the lines of what Lessig was writing about in his "Code" book 
(regardless of what one thinks of his conclusions).

Many who have been posting here in the past year have apparently 
_missed_ the core ideas, hence their blathering about the need for 
privacy laws, about calls for collective action, about legitimate 
needs of law enforcement.

Which tells me we need words more than we need some chunk of C code.

(Not that 97% of the subscribers of this or any other similar list 
have ever written a single program with any conceivable crypto 
significance.)

As for Chomsky, I've been deleting all of the recent posts arguing 
pro- or con-Chomsky.


--Tim May
-- 
-:-:-:-:-:-:-:
Timothy C. May  | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.

encryption obsoleted

[Anonymous Remailer]

Well, they are original. I do not recall any other instance when
a government said "we will not snoop."

---

"Former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic has no longer any
influence on the police and army force in the country, and all phone
taps, both fixed and mobile in Serbia have stopped, stated Zoran
Djindjic, one of the leaders of the Democratic Opposition of Serbia
(DOS), in an interview for B2-92."

"Djindjic also said that the first step toward change is that all
telephone tapping has been stopped in Serbia."

Re: Niiice kitty....

[Steve Furlong]

Ray Dillinger wrote:
> 
> Hi everybody;
> 
> I have no interest in Chomsky flames and wish they would die.
> In fact, I'm going to *MAKE* them die, for me at least, by
> filtering posts on chomsky's name.  (yes, this post right here
> is going into the bitbucket when it gets back to me from the
> list).
> 
> I'm just dropping this note to remind everyone who's tired of
> this argument that you also have the power to make your machine
> ignore it for you, thus saving you the trouble and bother of
> filtering through it to find actual relevant content.
> 
> If enough people ignore it, it *will* die.

No, no, no. To judge by the list traffic, Cypherpunks don't write code.
Cypherpunks don't make maximal use of the tools they have. Cypherpunks
complain endlessly and engage in flamewars. I'm afraid your post was
off-charter.
-- 
Steve Furlong, Computer Condottiere Have GNU, will travel
   518-374-4720 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Niiice kitty....

[Ray Dillinger]

Hi everybody; 

I have no interest in Chomsky flames and wish they would die. 
In fact, I'm going to *MAKE* them die, for me at least, by 
filtering posts on chomsky's name.  (yes, this post right here 
is going into the bitbucket when it gets back to me from the 
list). 

I'm just dropping this note to remind everyone who's tired of 
this argument that you also have the power to make your machine 
ignore it for you, thus saving you the trouble and bother of 
filtering through it to find actual relevant content.

If enough people ignore it, it *will* die.

Bear

Re: Niiice kitty....

[James A.. Donald]

 --
At 07:56 PM 10/6/2000 -1000, Reese wrote:
 > It
 > dissects whines such as yours and sends them to the oven, where they can
 > be properly roasted with flesh-searing heat, the better to reduce the
 > fatty content.

I have often remarked on how Chomsky's board treats inconvenient facts and 
unwanted views in the same way that the totalitarian states that Chomsky so 
admired treated people who noticed inconvenient facts and people who held 
unwanted views.

I see that you are of the same view.

 --digsig
  James A. Donald
  6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
  7n60wR0kTV6gQqeFXHWLyxEyO9UDF1wyR0MfsSQ5
  4zy2tyd5+lYSNmN1fVFiyRB7HOhmgCch66Vwq+fva

Re: stego for the censored

[Ray Dillinger]

>>On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Tom Vogt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm currently thinking of whether or not it is feasable to put stego
>>>data into EVERY .mp3 downloaded. just put random data into those not
>>>intended to carry a message.
>
On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Ray Dillinger wrote:

>>You're talking
>>about making the audio channels a bit (more or less) thinner, but
>>they're too thin already.

On Sat, 7 Oct 2000, petro wrote:
>
>   But if you make them a little "thinner" won't that mean that it 
>will sound worse to more people, thus making the push for a better 
>format?

Um, possibly if *all* MP3's were made with stegodata. If there 
is *one* source of MP3's that's stego'd and a bunch of other 
people trying to make them sound as good as possible, the one 
supplier with consistently poor sound quality will stand out 
when someone goes looking for stegograms.

One thing, which you pointed out in a comment I snipped above, 
is that some music adapts better to MP3 compression than other 
music.  There is plenty of room for stegodata in synthesizer-
pop bands like "Yes" and "The Eurythmics", but almost none 
in layered atmospheric music like "Enya".  If you pick and 
choose which plaintexts to stego, you can probably be less 
obtrusive about it. 

Bear

Re: Niiice kitty....

[James A.. Donald]

 --
At 03:39 PM 06/10/00 -1000, Reese wrote:
James A.. Donald wrote:
 > > Distortions at Fourth Hand
 > > Noam Chomsky and Edward S. Herman
 > >The Nation, June 25, 1977
 > >
 > >: : such journals as the Far Eastern Economic Review , the
 > >: : London Economist , the Melbourne Journal of Politics , and
 > >: : others elsewhere, have provided analyses by highly
 > >: : qualified specialists who have studied the full range of
 > >: : evidence available, and who concluded that executions have
 > >: : numbered at most in the thousands; that these were
 > >: : localized in areas of limited Khmer Rouge influence and
 > >: : unusual peasant discontent, where brutal revenge killings
 > >: : were aggravated by the threat of starvation resulting from
 > >: : the American destruction and killing. These reports also
 > >: : emphasize both the extraordinary brutality on both sides
 > >: : during the civil war (provoked by the American attack) and
 > >: : repeated discoveries that massacre reports were false

At 07:56 PM 10/6/2000 -1000, Reese wrote:
 >   http://abbc.com/aaargh/fran/chomsky/cassandra.html
 >   --a 1985 essay by Christopher Hitchens defending
 >   Chomsky against such charges.


Merely a denial, not a rebuttal:

This essay does not actually claim that the people cited by Chomsky said 
the things that Chomsky attributes to them.  In particular it presents no 
actual examples of massacre reports that were discovered to be false.

It answers none of the criticisms that I or other people have made of 
Chomsky.  Instead it takes fragments of those criticisms out of context, 
without the specifics of that criticism, and simply denies the charges, 
without acknowledging or rebutting any of the evidence that Chomsky's 
accusers present.  It does not rebut a single charge, or address a single 
piece of evidence.

It does not rebut, or even address, the charges I made, or indeed any of 
the charges that any critic made.

Most flagrantly, it ignores the fact that Chomsky's position, and the 
radical left position, on Cambodia changed abruptly and radically when 
Soviet foriegn policy changed in January 1979, quoting statements that 
Chomsky made after 1979 as evidence that he did not mean the things he said 
before 1979.

 --digsig
  James A. Donald
  6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
  a1/b9+joFgSrGbYhfddJ31t3e/FAHktWAG4etk89
  4mEy3ZBLFNtOmlUy/IYvzGQ5asmemEJK3EFHcohBT

Government again enters Somalia

[James A.. Donald]

Some time ago, the president of Somalia returned from his exile to 
Mogadishu, the former capital of Somalia, which was going to be the new 
capital of Somalia.  Lots of people gave lots of speeches about how popular 
and successful the new government was, and CNN gave a glowing account of 
how pleased the Somalis were to have a government again.   Approximately 
twenty four hours later, the new government did a moonlight flit out of 
Somalia back into exile.

Recently the new government announced it was returning from its exile to 
Baidoa, which is to be the new government of Somalia.  Lots of notables 
gave lots of speeches about how popular and successful the new government 
was, and CNN gave a glowing account of how pleased the Somalis were to have 
a government again.

Unfortunately neither the president or any senior members of the new 
government were able to make it Baidoa in time for the press conference.

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Professia - psiholog

[no_relay]

   ÏÐÎÔÅÑÑÈß - ÏÑÈÕÎËÎÃ

   ÂÒÎÐÎÅ ÂÛÑØÅÅ  ÂÅ×ÅÐÍÅÅ ÎÁÐÀÇÎÂÀÍÈÅ ÏÎ ÏÑÈÕÎËÎÃÈÈ
 ÇÀ 3 ÃÎÄÀ!

 ØÊÎËÀ ÏÑÈÕÎËÎÃÈ×ÅÑÊÎÃÎ ÌÀÑÒÅÐÑÒÂÀ

   ÐÎÑÑÈÉÑÊÎÃÎ ÓÍÈÂÅÐÑÈÒÅÒÀ ÄÐÓÆÁÛ ÍÀÐÎÄÎÂ

îáúÿâëÿåò î÷åðåäíîé îñåííèé íàáîð ëèö ñ âûñøèì îáðàçîâàíèåì íà 
ñïåöèàëüíîñòü  "Ïñèõîëîãèÿ"

Òðåíèíãè è ñåìèíàðû ïðîâîäÿò ïðîôåññèîíàëû, ÿâëÿþùèåñÿ íàñòîÿùèìè 
ìàñòåðàìè ñâîåãî äåëà. 

 ïðîãðàììå öèêëû ïî ñëåäóþùèì äèñöèïëèíàì: íåéðîëèíãâèñòè÷åñêîå 
ïðîãðàììèðîâàíèå,òåëåñíî-îðèåíòèðîâàííàÿ ïñèõîëîãèÿ, îñíîâû 
ïñèõîàíàëèçà, ãåøòàëüòïñèõîëîãèÿ, òðàíñàêöèîííûé àíàëèç, 
òðàíñïåðñîíàëüíàÿ ïñèõîëîãèÿ, îñíîâû ýðèêñîíèàíñêîãî ãèïíîçà, 
ïñèõîäðàìà, ïñèõîëîãè÷åñêîå òåñòèðîâàíèå, ñîöèàëüíàÿ ïñèõîëîãèÿ, 
ïñèõîëîãèÿ áèçíåñà, ïñèõîëîãè÷åñêîå êîíñóëüòèðîâàíèå, 
ìàòåìàòè÷åñêèé àíàëèç ìîäåëåé ïîçíàíèÿ.
Çàíÿòèÿ ïðîâîäÿòñÿ òðè ðàçà â íåäåëþ ñ 18 äî 21 ÷àñà. Îáó÷åíèå 
ïëàòíîå.
Ïî îêîí÷àíèþ îáó÷åíèÿ âûäàåòñÿ ÃÎÑÓÄÀÐÑÒÂÅÍÍÛÉ ÄÈÏËÎÌ î 
ïðîôåññèîíàëüíîé ïåðåïîäãîòîâêå.
Âîçìîæíî îáó÷åíèå íà îòäåëüíûõ öèêëàõ ñ âûäà÷åé ñîîòâåòñòâóþùåãî 
ñåðòèôèêàòà.
Çàïèñü íà ñîáåñåäîâàíèå ïðîèçâîäèòñÿ ïî òåëåôîíó (095) 434-75-54 
ñ 11 äî 17 êðîìå ñóááîòû è âîñêðåñåíüÿ.
Íà÷àëî çàíÿòèé  9 - 11 îêòÿáðÿ 2000ã.


PROFESSIYa - PSIKhOLOG

   VTOROE VYSShEE  VEChERNEE OBRAZOVANIE PO PSIKhOLOGII
 ZA 3 GODA!

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Zapis' na sobesedovanie proizvoditsya po telefonu (095) 
434-75-54.
Nachalo zanyatij  9 - 11 oktyabrya 2000g.
 


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Announcing: cypherpunks@koeln.ccc.de

[Doobee R. Tzeck]

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to cbone.ml.cypherpunks as well.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Choate) writes:

> What happened to the new node that was supposed to go online at the las=
t
> meeting?
>=20
> Cold feet?

No, just a cold staying in bed for a week.


So here is the anouncemant:

A new CDR Node has opened at koeln.ccc.de. The machine is Located
in NRW, Germany and keeps logs.

To quote http://koeln.ccc.de/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks

  About Cypherpunks

  This is a european node of the cypherpunks distributed
  remailer (CDR). Other Nodes can be reached at
  [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
  [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is also the classical
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] node which is in an undetermined state.
  The koeln.ccc.de node feeds minder.net and ssz.com. It recives
  feeds from minder.net, cyberpass.net, algebra.com
  ano openpgp.net.

  This specific node drops messages bigger than 32k and every
  message with more than 17 recipients or just a line
  containing "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject. This
  node is also available read-only by nntp.

  There is some Information how Jim Choate sees CDR history at
  szz.com. Older archives can be found at inet-one, at
  venona.com and lanesbry.com. If you interested in physical
  meetings visit meetingpunks.

  To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
  Cypherpunks Archives.=20

I'm still not really happy with the software but it seems to work
without hickups. The nntp-part is still unstable but this
shouldn't affect the mail-part. One nice Feature is that you can
get a digest. Anonymous UUCP over TCP/ISDN/V.90 for cypherpunks
is planned but will take some time.

I still didn't get contact with algebra.com, openpgp.net and
cyberpass.net administrators to exchange backbone traffic.

drt

--=20
Aber la=DF mich dich gleich mal vor der Zeitverschwendung deines Lebens
bewahren: wenn du mit diesem Problem schon =FCberfordert bist, ist
Assembler nichts f=FCr dich.  Denn da mu=DF man logisch denken und Proble=
me
selbst=E4ndig l=F6sen, die sonst ein Compiler f=FCr einen l=F6st.
---Felix von Leitner
http://koeln.ccc.de/~drt/

Announcing: cypherpunks@koeln.ccc.de

[Doobee R. Tzeck]

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to cbone.ml.cypherpunks as well.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Choate) writes:

> What happened to the new node that was supposed to go online at the last
> meeting?
> 
> Cold feet?

No, just a cold staying in bed for a week.


So here is the anouncemant:

A new CDR Node has opened at koeln.ccc.de. The machine is Located
in NRW, Germany and keeps logs.

To quote http://koeln.ccc.de/mailman/listinfo/cypherpunks

  About Cypherpunks

  This is a european node of the cypherpunks distributed
  remailer (CDR). Other Nodes can be reached at
  [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
  [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is also the classical
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] node which is in an undetermined state.
  The koeln.ccc.de node feeds minder.net and ssz.com. It recives
  feeds from minder.net, cyberpass.net, algebra.com
  ano openpgp.net.

  This specific node drops messages bigger than 32k and every
  message with more than 17 recipients or just a line
  containing "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject. This
  node is also available read-only by nntp.

  There is some Information how Jim Choate sees CDR history at
  szz.com. Older archives can be found at inet-one, at
  venona.com and lanesbry.com. If you interested in physical
  meetings visit meetingpunks.

  To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the
  Cypherpunks Archives. 

I'm still not really happy with the software but it seems to work
without hickups. The nntp-part is still unstable but this
shouldn't affect the mail-part. One nice Feature is that you can
get a digest. Anonymous UUCP over TCP/ISDN/V.90 for cypherpunks
is planned but will take some time.

I still didn't get contact with algebra.com, openpgp.net and
cyberpass.net administrators to exchange backbone traffic.

drt

-- 
Aber laß mich dich gleich mal vor der Zeitverschwendung deines Lebens
bewahren: wenn du mit diesem Problem schon überfordert bist, ist
Assembler nichts für dich.  Denn da muß man logisch denken und Probleme
selbständig lösen, die sonst ein Compiler für einen löst.
---Felix von Leitner
http://koeln.ccc.de/~drt/

http://www.rfdata.net/ATM-POS/

[R. A. Hettinga]

--- begin forwarded text


Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 18:01:33 -0700
From: Somebody
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: http://www.rfdata.net/ATM-POS/

will wonders never cease?  wanna put an atm machine at an Anguillan
hot-spot?
really.  why do you think they're registered in the BVI?  Wireless ATM
machines
have been deployed by FirStar Bank (USBancorp now) in the midwest.

makes a lot of sense, but I hope their encryption is really good.

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: stego for the censored

[Sampo A Syreeni]

On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Tom Vogt wrote:

>> Lossy compression.
>> 
>> balance snipped, we need lossless compression, eh?
>
>nope we don't. remember that everyone said that .jpeg couldn't be used
>for stego for that same reason? then the first .jpeg-stego tools
>arrived.

The only problem with lossy compression is that it severely limits the
capacity of the covert channel. On the other hand, embedding a maximum
amount of data into a data stream and losslessly coding the result will
certainly show in the compression ratio.

Some recent work in audio watermarking has achieved speeds of a couple of
hundreds of bits per second. Of course most of those do not get through mp3
but the good thing is that these methods are for all practical purposes
inaudible. Built for realtime use with e.g. shoutcast such methods should be
capacious enough even after error correction.

There's certain irony in using copyright protection research this way, as 
well...

Sampo Syreeni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, aka decoy, student/math/Helsinki university

Re: stego for the censored

[petro]

>At 10:52 AM 10/6/00 -0400, Ray Dillinger wrote:
>>For the sake of us audiophiles, please don't.  MP3 is tinny and flat
>>at best;
>
>Then why are you 'audiophiles' traumatizing yourselves by listening
>to it?
>
>  it ticks me off that most folks seem to hear it as "good
>>enough", because if most folks hear it as "good enough" it means we're
>>not going to get a better sound format widely used.
>
>First 'good enough' depends on environment, e.g., ambient noise ---how
>about that computer fan, much less the noise in a car?
>
>Second, why did we evolve CDs if LPs were 'good enough' for most?  [Besides
>portability]

Portability, and durability were primary concerns, plus it's 
cheaper to make a "decent" sounding CD system than a *decent* 
sounding analog system.

LPs (Well, *properly cared for LPS from early in the 
production run) (even to my Tin Ear) sound *better* than CDs when 
played on high end equipment, and when playing music where absolute 
fidelity matters.

CDs are just cheaper to produce, easier to carry around, 
subject to less degradation when *mildly* abused etc.
-- 
A quote from Petro's Archives:   **
Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government 
of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? 
Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let 
history answer this question. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural

Re: stego for the censored

[petro]

>On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Tom Vogt wrote:
>
>
>>I'm currently thinking of whether or not it is feasable to put stego
>>data into EVERY .mp3 downloaded. just put random data into those not
>>intended to carry a message.
>
>For the sake of us audiophiles, please don't.  MP3 is tinny and flat
>at best; it ticks me off that most folks seem to hear it as "good
>enough", because if most folks hear it as "good enough" it means we're
>not going to get a better sound format widely used.  You're talking
>about making the audio channels a bit (more or less) thinner, but
>they're too thin already.

But if you make them a little "thinner" (and I'll admit to 
having a tin ear, and preferring the kind of music that doesn't 
suffer much in that kind of compression), won't that mean that it 
will sound worse to more people, thus making the push for a better 
format?
-- 
A quote from Petro's Archives:   **
Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government 
of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? 
Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let 
history answer this question. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural

Re: Anonymous Remailers

[Sampo A Syreeni]

On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Bill Stewart wrote:

>>One variation of the original proposal would be to only allow egress to
>>addresses known to lay in a jurisdiction different from the one in which the
>>remailer resides. I know, the problem is nontrivial with all the dotcom
>>addresses and such around. Does doing a DNS lookup and working on IP
>>addresses help?
>
>That's not something the remailer should be doing - that's something
>that the user sending the message should be doing

The thread originated from a concern of someone planning to put up a
remailer over legal responsibility and related costs. If in fact reducing
this cost is a prerequisite to a growing infrastructure of remailers, I
would say the remailers should definitely be doing just that. It's not
so very different from running a middleman.

Sampo Syreeni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, aka decoy, student/math/Helsinki university

Re: Anonymous Remailers

[Sampo A Syreeni]

On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Ralf-Philipp Weinmann wrote:

>> One variation of the original proposal would be to only allow egress to
>> addresses known to lay in a jurisdiction different from the one in which the
>> remailer resides. I know, the problem is nontrivial with all the dotcom
>> addresses and such around. Does doing a DNS lookup and working on IP
>> addresses help?
>
>Nope. Unfortunately it does not. Deriving the geographical location from
>an IP address and a DNS name is not always feasible.

But actually the problem, here, is less one of pinpointing the location than
of trying to ensure that the location is far enough away. I think some
careful thinking in terms of the current BGP aggregation scheme should help
at least a little.

>which could be reversed to get to the geographical location, however it will
>not always be readily apparent how it works.

How about trying to automate this process? Using the remailer IPs and
possibly some others as well known geographical 'beacons' and utilizing
routing aggregation to get parts of the address space that are sure to be
close to the remailer and hence 'dangerous'. I think geographical
information at the level of nations is at least somewhat reflected in the
allocation of IP addresses - it wouldn't seem sensible to allocate IP
addresses for two different countries from a single pool.

>What one could do however is have the remailer pass on every message which
>has a recipient address that is *known to be in a jurisdiction that is different
>from the remailers*.

And pass those that are known to be in the same.

>You will not be able to reach each and every target then, but at least it's
>better than nothing.

If this sort of egress filtering (or any variant of the original scheme
proposed) seems useful, why not develop some protocol/uniform data format to
acknowledge the limitations of a given remailer. Type 2 remailers even have
the necessary public key infrastructure in place to sign such extra data.

>On the other hand I remember that the Curch of Scientology was able to
>have an impact on anon.penet.fi despite the fact that this remailer was outside
>of US jurisdiction. Maybe we have to come up with a list of "incompatible"
>jurisdiction systems to avoid this sort of thing from happening again.

The anon case was perhaps a bit different - provided that a remailer is well
maintained, cpunk remailer maintainers can display that no data is retained
on where different messages originated or were posted to. I do not think
even CoS could have shut anon.penet.fi down.

Sampo Syreeni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, aka decoy, student/math/Helsinki university