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Taxifornia becomes interplanetary menace (fwd)

[Eugene Leitl]

-- Eugen* Leitl http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204/";>leitl
__
ICBMTO  : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204
57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:45:13 -0400
From: Eliezer S. Yudkowsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Taxifornia becomes interplanetary menace

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010710/tc/life_satellites_dc_1.html

==

L.A. May Be Shot Down in Bid to Tax Satellites
By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Los Angeles officials seeking to impose property
taxes on space satellites were brought back down to Earth on Tuesday when
a state board moved toward declaring satellites beyond the reach of even
the tax collector.

But Los Angeles County Assessor Rick Auerbach said he was not yet ready to
scrap the proposed tax and would consider a court challenge if he finds
that the California State Board of Equalization has circumvented state or
federal law.

It was Auerbach who determined that eight communications satellites owned
by Hughes Electronics Corp.(NYSE:GMH - news) and currently in
geostationary orbit 22,300 miles over Earth's equator were taxable as
movable property that was currently out of state, similar to construction
equipment.

That decision prompted county officials to consider an assessment on the
communications satellites, which are each worth up to $100 million new.

But State Board of Equalization members appeared to short circuit that
plan on Tuesday when they voted 5-0 to ``fast track'' a rule that
satellites cannot be taxed, even though Hughes, a unit of GM (NYSE:GM -
news), is based in Los Angeles.

The decision came after presentations by Hughes and Auerbach and directs
the board's staff to draft a rule declaring the satellites nontaxable.
Board members would vote on that proposed rule in the coming months.

George Jamison, a Hughes vice president, said the firm was relieved and
pleased by what he called the ``good common sense'' of the board and said
they considered the proposed tax a very bad idea from the start.

HUGHES: TAX IS 'LUDICROUS'

``It's ludicrous, absolutely,'' Jamison said. ``It's the type of issue,
quite frankly, that causes the company to consider relocating its base of
operations to a more business-friendly environment.''

The satellites are not launched from California, do not pass over
California while in orbit and will never return to the state, instead
becoming space junk, he said.

``We think the ruling is important,'' Jamison said. ``These spacecraft are
not be in the state of California, have never been in the state of
California during their useful lives and will never be in the state of
California in the future.''

Auerbach conceded that the board members ``have made up their mind already
that the property is not taxable,'' but said the issue was not necessarily
dead because he had researched the case and found legal opinions
supporting his position.

``I'll have to see what basis they have for the rule,'' Auerbach said.
``If I believe it's improper (under the) U.S. Constitution and and state
statutes my option is to go to Superior Court.''

``I have to keep an open mind,'' Auerbach said. ``Based on the opinions I
have I think it still looks taxable.''

Auerbach insisted that he was not pushing for a tax on the satellites but
was simply doing his job and trying to determine whether they should be
taxed.

``I'm neutral on the whole thing,'' he said. ``My job is to make sure all
property that's taxable gets assessed and I'm going to follow the law. If
the law says its not taxable it's not taxable. If it is taxable I will
assess it.''

==

Taxifornia becomes interplanetary menace (fwd)

[Eugene Leitl]

-- Eugen* Leitl http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204/";>leitl
__
ICBMTO  : N48 10'07'' E011 33'53'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204
57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 20:45:13 -0400
From: Eliezer S. Yudkowsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Taxifornia becomes interplanetary menace

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010710/tc/life_satellites_dc_1.html

==

L.A. May Be Shot Down in Bid to Tax Satellites
By Dan Whitcomb

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Los Angeles officials seeking to impose property
taxes on space satellites were brought back down to Earth on Tuesday when
a state board moved toward declaring satellites beyond the reach of even
the tax collector.

But Los Angeles County Assessor Rick Auerbach said he was not yet ready to
scrap the proposed tax and would consider a court challenge if he finds
that the California State Board of Equalization has circumvented state or
federal law.

It was Auerbach who determined that eight communications satellites owned
by Hughes Electronics Corp.(NYSE:GMH - news) and currently in
geostationary orbit 22,300 miles over Earth's equator were taxable as
movable property that was currently out of state, similar to construction
equipment.

That decision prompted county officials to consider an assessment on the
communications satellites, which are each worth up to $100 million new.

But State Board of Equalization members appeared to short circuit that
plan on Tuesday when they voted 5-0 to ``fast track'' a rule that
satellites cannot be taxed, even though Hughes, a unit of GM (NYSE:GM -
news), is based in Los Angeles.

The decision came after presentations by Hughes and Auerbach and directs
the board's staff to draft a rule declaring the satellites nontaxable.
Board members would vote on that proposed rule in the coming months.

George Jamison, a Hughes vice president, said the firm was relieved and
pleased by what he called the ``good common sense'' of the board and said
they considered the proposed tax a very bad idea from the start.

HUGHES: TAX IS 'LUDICROUS'

``It's ludicrous, absolutely,'' Jamison said. ``It's the type of issue,
quite frankly, that causes the company to consider relocating its base of
operations to a more business-friendly environment.''

The satellites are not launched from California, do not pass over
California while in orbit and will never return to the state, instead
becoming space junk, he said.

``We think the ruling is important,'' Jamison said. ``These spacecraft are
not be in the state of California, have never been in the state of
California during their useful lives and will never be in the state of
California in the future.''

Auerbach conceded that the board members ``have made up their mind already
that the property is not taxable,'' but said the issue was not necessarily
dead because he had researched the case and found legal opinions
supporting his position.

``I'll have to see what basis they have for the rule,'' Auerbach said.
``If I believe it's improper (under the) U.S. Constitution and and state
statutes my option is to go to Superior Court.''

``I have to keep an open mind,'' Auerbach said. ``Based on the opinions I
have I think it still looks taxable.''

Auerbach insisted that he was not pushing for a tax on the satellites but
was simply doing his job and trying to determine whether they should be
taxed.

``I'm neutral on the whole thing,'' he said. ``My job is to make sure all
property that's taxable gets assessed and I'm going to follow the law. If
the law says its not taxable it's not taxable. If it is taxable I will
assess it.''

==

Eye stress ! or Stress eye !

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  & VA. Screening of addresses has been done to the best of our technical  
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  remove yourself. We respect all removal requests.  To discontinue receipt  
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natsec in space

[Declan McCullagh]

SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE National Security Budget Strategic 
Subcommittee hearing on the budget request for national security space 
programs, policies, operations and strategic systems. Witnesses: General 
Ralph Eberhart, commander in chief, U.S. Space Command; Admiral Richard 
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Location: 222 Russell Senate Office Building. 2 p.m. Contact: 202-224-3871 
http://www.senate.gov/~armed_services **NEW**

Re: Dropping out of the USA

[Harmon Seaver]

  How about Costa Rica? I met some people from there
who said the government there was very cool, no problems.
OTOH, anyplace you go that you're a foreigner, you always
stand out. But Costa Rica has always attracted me, both
politically and geographically, because the upland weather
is quite cool, like the political climate.

--
Harmon Seaver, MLIS
CyberShamanix
Work 920-203-9633   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

House will vote on bill to regulate online campaign advertising

[Declan McCullagh]

- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

From: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FC: House will vote on bill to regulate online campaign advertising
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:55:02 -0400
X-URL: http://www.mccullagh.org/
X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.2i



http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45138,00.html
   
   Mulling Reins on Net Campaigns
   By Declan McCullagh ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   2:00 a.m. July 11, 2001 PDT
   
   WASHINGTON -- The House of Representatives is scheduled to vote
   Thursday on a campaign finance bill that would, for the first time,
   regulate Internet advertisements and e-mails targeted at voters.
   
   The new rules aimed at online political activity are part of a
   Republican effort to overhaul U.S. election law that has received
   little scrutiny -- which, if enacted, would roil the fast-growing
   online campaign industry and impose obstacles on candidates' use of
   the Internet.
   
   Jonah Seiger, co-founder of Mindshare, a 16-person Internet consulting
   firm in Washington, said he understands why the legislation was
   written to cover "any communications" directed at voters, and not just
   traditional methods.
   
   "But I hope Congress would understand what they're doing," Seiger
   said. "The unintended consequences of sloppy legislation could make it
   more difficult to use the Internet and make it less effective as a
   political communications medium."
   
   On Thursday, the House will consider a campaign finance plan patterned
   after a bill backed by Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) that the Senate
   has already approved. That proposal, H.R.2356, covers only political
   communications sent by broadcast, satellite, cable or the U.S. mail,
   and does not apply to the Internet.
   
   But the version that House Republicans will offer as an alternative is
   far broader in one important way: It regulates "any" paid
   communication -- including Internet communication -- that mentions a
   candidate for federal office. Anyone who makes such a communication,
   not just political parties or candidates, would be required to keep
   careful records and count online spending toward a $50,000 limit that
   would trigger a filing with the federal government.
   
   The bill's drafters say they intended to regulate the burgeoning world
   of Internet politics but predicted the legislation's impact would be
   limited.
   
   Roman Buhler, counsel to the House Administration Committee, said
   "when we thought about the Internet we doubted that the cost of
   Internet messages, such as bulk e-mails, would rise to that level
   It was our sense that bulk e-mails would not approach the $50,000
   threshold." (The bill does count e-mail spending toward the $50,000
   trigger point.)
   
   "A banner ad would be a form of mass communication, and they would
   have to disclose," Buhler said.
   
   Ken Nealy, a press secretary for bill sponsor Rep. Albert Wynn
   (D-Maryland), refused to speak on the record. When asked in person
   what effects the bill would have on the Internet, Nealy declared that
   the conversation was over and left the room.

   [...]



-
POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list
You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice.
To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html
This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/
-


- End forwarded message -

Re: freq meter vs. spectrum analyzer for sweeping

[A. Melon]

bob said:

>You need a spectrum analyzer, which shows you signal strength vs.
>frequency.
>
>And you need to worry about intermittent ('burst') bugs.
>
>And WTF is an 'infinity' transmitter?

  Umm, all the stuff being sold for counter surveillance are frequency
counters of one sort or another.  
   Infinity transmitter? I guess you don't know much about bugs
if you don't know that -- try a web search on the term.

Re: Dropping out of the USA

[Tim May]

At 2:37 AM +0200 7/11/01, Anonymous wrote:
>Tim May wrote:
>>  I will say that there is no country out there that seems to be
>>  beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement, pace the points we discuss
>>  so often about drug warriors, freezing of accounts, extradition,
>>  etc.  Even Yugoslavia has just bowed to U.S. financing pressures
>>  (sending Milosevic to the Hague for a show trial).
>
>The cost is higher, though, especially the cost of figuring out what
>you are doing.  You are mostly out from under the footprint.  For
>example, it's much more difficult for the Feds to illegally tap your
>phone in, say, Russia.  Also, it will be harder for them to do their
>thing without tipping you off.

This begs the question: _which_ "Feds"? While it may be harder for 
America's Feds to tap phones in Russia (but don't count on this being 
true for long), the successors to the KGB and GRU are very active. 
Russia even has draconian laws against crypto use which America was 
unable to pass.

In any case, it's absurd to think one would move to Russia to escape 
the problems of the U.S.

>
>The Feds have to use a certain amount of discretion when operating in
>other countries.  When Ames was meeting his Russian handlers in
>Colombia, the FBI tried to catch him at it, but blew it because they
>were there illegally and had to exercise caution.

Ames and Hanssen were textbook cases in "old school" thinking. They 
literally used the old kind of dead drops: messages left in Coke cans 
left at the base of oak trees in parks, chalk marks on mailboxes. 
Jeesh.


>While it's too bad that there isn't a single Libertarian government
>out there, other countries may still have uses.  Two risky investments
>is a better deal than one big investment with the same risk.

Whatever.


--Tim May




-- 
Timothy C. May [EMAIL PROTECTED]Corralitos, California
Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon
Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go
Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns

To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

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Re: freq meter vs. spectrum analyzer for sweeping

[Michael H. Warfield]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2001 at 08:29:02AM -0700, A. Melon wrote:
> bob said:

> >You need a spectrum analyzer, which shows you signal strength vs.
> >frequency.
> >
> >And you need to worry about intermittent ('burst') bugs.
> >
> >And WTF is an 'infinity' transmitter?

>   Umm, all the stuff being sold for counter surveillance are frequency
> counters of one sort or another.  
>Infinity transmitter? I guess you don't know much about bugs
> if you don't know that -- try a web search on the term.

Amusing...  And from what I can tell from the descriptions of the
two types I saw, if you are looking for it with a frequency meter, grid
dip oscilator, specturm analyzer, RF meters, or whatever, then you are
barking up the wrong tree.  Both of what I saw worked through the phone
lines (one using the existing phone line and one using an additional
phone line) and would not be emitting RF.  Are you think of a third type
that activates over the phone but transmitts on RF (Why?  If it transmitts
RF, why not activate it with RF and avoid the need for the telephone
call in, entirely?) or were you just not thinking?  I suppose that one
might be led to the false conclusion that because someone put the word
"transmitter" in the name that it must transmit RF.  The mouthpiece of
a telephone handset is also called a transmitter and doesn't emit a spec
of RF.

BTW...  A voltmeter across tip and ring should detect the one type
while the other type requires the installation of an additional phone line
and wouldn't ring your phone.  The former (single line) would also interfer
with normal operation of the phone.  Get a "call and hang-up", hang up,
count to twenty, pick up, draw down a dial tone (which could, in theory
be faked - classical modem callback trick) and call someone else,
preferably someone with calling line ID who can verify your phone number
(to avoid stupid loopthrough systems - another classic "man in the middle
trick).  The former also does not work well with ESS switches because
it depends on "calling party disconnect" to hold the line open, which
ESS will not do.  The later (the two line system) was specifically
advertised as working within ESS systems without requiring modification
to the ESS system (obviously to work around the "called party disconnect").

From the desciptions I have seen for the "classic" ring-up single
line infinity transmitter, it seems to be little more than the "classic"
diode-bridge to hold a line off-hook where the calling party can still
hear the called party phones after the called party hangs up.  Lame...
No transmitter, and you just have to install the bridge and controller
anywhere on the POTS pair between the SLC and any of the phones, even
outside the house on the drop line.  If you have a few thousand feet
of copper loop between you and the SLC, it doesn't even need to be in
your subdivision.  Nothing needs to be installed in the house at all to
make that work.  It's still lame and easy to detect (line voltage
siting at off-hook voltage) and even a "busy line" detector you can get at
Radio Shack (lits up to indicate when another extension is off hook)
should detect it.  But NOT with an RF detector.  :-)  Also wouldn't work
with ISDN phones.

As far as ring and hang up goes...  We average about 2 of those
per day, always from "out of area" and always tracks down to these moronic
auto telemarketing boxes that overdial the number of operators.  If you
answer the phone and say "hello" and the autodialer doesn't have a free
operator to had you off to, it hangs up the phone.  Been discussions to
make these illegal (since they don't give you an opportunity to tell them
to add you to their "do not call list" they already violate FCC rules in
theory) and to make the use of "out of area" CLID indicators by telemarketers
illegal for the same reasons.  I happen to know people who work for a
company that designs and manufactures those devices.  Some of these
clowns configure them for dialing as many as 10 times as many numbers
as people handling the calls.  That way if you only get 1 out of 10
answering the phone, all your operators stay pretty much busy.  If you
get more than one out of ten answering the phone, you generate a lot
of "call-and-hangup" calls.  But you (the telemarketer) don't care about
them because they can't identify you and they can't tell you to never
call back and the extra calls don't interrupt your dinner.

Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield|  (770) 985-6132   |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  (The Mad Wizard)  |  (678) 463-0932   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9  |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471|  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!

Re: Dropping out of the USA

[Anonymous]

Tim May wrote:
>At 2:37 AM +0200 7/11/01, Anonymous wrote:
>>Tim May wrote:
>>>  I will say that there is no country out there that seems to be
>>>  beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement, pace the points we discuss
>>>  so often about drug warriors, freezing of accounts, extradition,
>>>  etc.  Even Yugoslavia has just bowed to U.S. financing pressures
>>>  (sending Milosevic to the Hague for a show trial).
>>
>>The cost is higher, though, especially the cost of figuring out what
>>you are doing.  You are mostly out from under the footprint.  For
>>example, it's much more difficult for the Feds to illegally tap your
>>phone in, say, Russia.  Also, it will be harder for them to do their
>>thing without tipping you off.
>
>This begs the question: _which_ "Feds"? While it may be harder for 
>America's Feds to tap phones in Russia (but don't count on this being 
>true for long), the successors to the KGB and GRU are very active. 
>Russia even has draconian laws against crypto use which America was 
>unable to pass.
>
>In any case, it's absurd to think one would move to Russia to escape 
>the problems of the U.S.

Russia sucks.  For one thing, it's damned cold.  Still, if you are
doing something which is annoying to the USG and not the Russians,
Russia is a better deal.  Maybe not the best deal.

It's not the case that all world governments have perfectly
synchronized their witch hunts.

>>The Feds have to use a certain amount of discretion when operating in
>>other countries.  When Ames was meeting his Russian handlers in
>>Colombia, the FBI tried to catch him at it, but blew it because they
>>were there illegally and had to exercise caution.
>
>Ames and Hanssen were textbook cases in "old school" thinking. They
>literally used the old kind of dead drops: messages left in Coke cans
>left at the base of oak trees in parks, chalk marks on mailboxes.
>Jeesh.

The point is that even in the most important case the FBI handled in a
decade, they couldn't do a basic surveillance job in a friendly
foreign country.  Implication: the same applies to less important
people.  Sheesh.

Harmon Seaver wrote:
> How about Costa Rica? I met some people from there who said the
> government there was very cool, no problems.  OTOH, anyplace you go
> that you're a foreigner, you always stand out. But Costa Rica has
> always attracted me, both politically and geographically, because
> the upland weather is quite cool, like the political climate.

No standing army, either.  What's the tax system like?  Can people
shoot guns legally?  Net connection?  Will you visit soon?

Re: freq meter vs. spectrum analyzer for sweeping

[A. Melon]

Thanks a lot -- that's a great help. And no, we weren't looking for rf
from the infinity tranmitter, I knew they run on the phone line, but we were
looking for other bugs.
 And I'm also aware of the great number of telemarketer autodialers (used
to have one myself with a hardwired voice mailbox but didn't use it for 
telemarketing), but it was the timing of these cals that aroused our
suspicions. That and the really frequent phone company truck. 
Good to know about the possible out of the building, we'll have to
start checking that out.   

Looking for a massmailer and / or mailbomber?

[WinBOMB_2 . 0]

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mail application I have ever seen.

Re: Meatspace,

[Faustine]

On Tue, 10 Jul 2001, Faustine wrote:

> Jim wrote:
> 
> >Ghandi. Womens Sufferage (US). Jim Crow Laws (US). Vietnam. Civil Rights
> >in the 60's.
> >The point being, there are plenty of historical precidence where this 
sort
> >of behaviour has led directly to the change desired by the protestors
> >against a much better armed and entrenched foe.
> 
> It depends on which sort of behavior you mean--none of these causes 
> believed in violence at all!

>Um, you should review the 60's groups like the SDS and such. 

Exactly: those weren't the groups that made the real impact when it 
actually came to getting down to business and changing policy. Blame 
MKULTRA or whatever you want, but the bottom line is that they fell apart 
(and had their members killed or put in jail) whereas groups who didn't 
espouse violence continue to this day.


And while
>Ghandi certainly didn't believe in violence the same can't be said for the
>rest of the Indian freedom movement (not all hailed to Ghandi). 

Without Ghandi, British policy would have taken a far different turn. 
Violence hasn't exactly been a stunning success for the IRA, has it.


>As to
>women sufferage, you need to do some more research there as well, not all
>women are pascifist. they burned more than bra's...

Guess you totally missed what I was trying to say about the Pankhursts. 



>You paint with too broad a brush (typical of the indoctrinating education
>of the day - going all the way back to when I was a kid in the 60's)

Oh come on. Address my points, don't insult me. We can get as specific as 
you like--there are too many issues here to cover them in adequate detail 
in a couple of posts. 


> Back in the day, anarchists used to assasinate people.
>Every ilk assassinates every other ilk if given the oportunity and the
>personality.

Not Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Susan B. Anthony, Bobby Kennedy and and the 
vast majority of the people who espoused the causes you mentioned above. 
The ones who made the real difference--the ones who immediately come to 
mind every time we think of their cause--didn't espouse violence. If you 
want to talk about Che and Mao and Chairman Gonzalo, that's another story.


> What came of it? 
>>The Indians are a free country. You and blacks can vote.

Not because of the anarchists decision to espouse violence, which the point 
of the above question.

If you want to talk about tactics of anarchists today, why not draw on 
examples from other groups who espoused violence, rather than comparing 
them to groups which largely used peaceful tactics. Apples and oranges.


>The reality is, your example of the 'troops in the street willing to gun
>'em down' (a paraphrase) is apt. The only thing stopping them is knowing
>that the majority of people don't believe it. They still believe in the
>'kindly policeman who's there to help you' of their youth. 

After Rodney King? the LAPD scandal? Abner Louima? Mumia? Patrick 
Dorismond? Not anymore. Ever see statistics on the way people perceive 
racial profiling? Maybe the "kindly cop" stereotype still holds in  
whitebread middle America, but the rest of the nation is getting a clue. 


>Want to see the other side? Kent State.

True...


> The Sacco and Vanzetti case. Here's an 
> uncomforably familiar bit on that--just fill in new details and it's as 
> contemporary as ever:

>>One case does not a generalization make.

Who said it did? I thought it was interesting to note how it paralells 
quite a few different cases today. Anyway, I certainly think it's more 
relevant to the effects of the tactics of anarchism than bringing up 
Ghandi. 


> Ouch. There's a real lesson there!
>Yeah, you need to study history more.

Who doesn't? Anyway, I wasn't bringing it up to score debate points or some 
childish thing like that, why counter it that way. Too bad you didnt see 
anything interesting there-- I really do think it's really worth 
considering, especially in light of the whole "counterterrorist mania".

 

>You're trying to sit on the fence and at the same time stand on both
sides.

Not really, it's a complex set of issues. Why don't you say a little more 
in detail about why "spirit" is a more central issue than tactics, that 
ought to be interesting.
 

~Faustine.

Digital Cash

[Ray Dillinger]

I've been attempting to design a decentralized auction/
exchange system that permits pseudonymous participants.  
By 'decentralized', I mean that NO central server, or 
subset of individual servers, controls access to any 
resource the system cannot work without; that there 
is no single point of failure. 

A consequence of this is that every ability that exists 
in any node, must exist in every node.  So the whole 
problem of currency issue gets the slightly weird 
solution of "everybody has to be able to print their 
own money."  

The sticking point is that this basically means the 
system will be without any single universal "currency".
A lot of E-cash techniques are usable, but what you wind 
up trading is certificates that represent goods or 
services offered by individuals in the system -- Alice 
the Farmer might issue certificates for bushels of 
wheat, while Bob the Carpenter might issue a bunch of 
certificates that say "collect a thousand of these and 
I'll redeem them for a new 10x10 meter deck on your house" 
and Carol the moneychanger might promise to redeem hers 
for one US dollar each, just for the amusement value of 
"redeeming" something in a system where hard currencies 
are the norm with a fiat currency. So these would be  
effectively a sort of digital merchants scrip, reducing 
back down to barter.

Exchange rates between the currencies issued by different 
participants would fluctuate according to trust and 
commodity values, and I'm okay with that.  Given the 
nature of the trust/reputation thing, I'd expect only 
a very small percentage of the participants to *actually* 
issue their own currency, as they wouldn't get good 
acceptance/exchange values until widely known, but 
everybody would have the ability.

The problem I'm running into is that while all kinds of 
e-cash protocols exist that protect the anonymity of 
the buyer and a lot protect the anonymity of the seller, 
there are none that protect the anonymity of the currency 
issuer, which would be ideal in this circumstance.  With 
the techniques I know of, the issuer can have only "Nym" 
protection. 

The basic problem with anonymizing the issuers (beyond 
technique alone) would be how the scrip gets redeemed 
when you don't necessarily know whom the issuer is.

Can anybody recommend appropriate reading?



Bear

Who can tax a satellite?

[mmotyka]

> Auerbach insisted that he was not pushing for a tax on the satellites but
> was simply doing his job and trying to determine whether they should be
> taxed.
> 
> ``I'm neutral on the whole thing,'' he said. ``My job is to make sure all
> property that's taxable gets assessed and I'm going to follow the law. If
> the law says its not taxable it's not taxable. If it is taxable I will
> assess it.''
>
I suppose, as with any racket, whoever has the ability to knock the
satellites down or render them inoperable could levy a "tax" on them.

Re: Dropping out of the USA

[Declan McCullagh]

On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 11:55:01PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Bell's case is not an acceptable example for a variety of reasons.

Wow. Jim Choate agrees with me, or I agree with him, or something like that.

-Declan

Looking for a massmailer and / or mailbomber?

[WinBOMB_2 . 0]

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[WinBOMB_2 . 0]

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for free.

You can download it at http://www.chatventure.com/marbus/mailbomb.htm .. it's the best 
mail application I have ever seen.

Re: Who can tax a satellite?

[Black Unicorn]

No, the real question is who can knock down or render inoperable the OWNER
of the satellite.

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 8:58 AM
Subject: Who can tax a satellite?

> > ``I'm neutral on the whole thing,'' he said. ``My job is to make sure
all
> > property that's taxable gets assessed and I'm going to follow the law.
If
> > the law says its not taxable it's not taxable. If it is taxable I will
> > assess it.''
> >
> I suppose, as with any racket, whoever has the ability to knock the
> satellites down or render them inoperable could levy a "tax" on them.

Re: Digital Cash

[Gabriel Rocha]

,[ On Wed, Jul 11, at 01:30PM, Ray Dillinger wrote: ]--
| Can anybody recommend appropriate reading?
| 
| 
|   Bear
`[ End Quote ]---

its not too much, in fact, it is not precisely what you are looking for.
but check this paper out: 
http://freehaven.net/doc/mix-acc/mix-acc.pdf
(also check out other papers on the freehaven project, they are working
on prjects which, in theory are similar to what you just described.)
http://freehaven.net/papers.html
it is about reliabilty in mix net networks, describes a
reliabilty system and (this is the part that might be of interest to
you) it describes potential failures and weak points in a system that is
theoretically similar to yours. hope that helps... --gabe

-- 
"It's not brave, if you're not scared."

why roasting Condit's weenie is delicious -watching the watchers

[Dynamite Bob]

from
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/iprs/20010711/cm/ten_commandments_sponsor_finds_demons_chasing_him_1.html


Clearly Condit was declaiming against his own demons when he
co-sponsored legislation calling for displaying the Ten Commandments in
public buildings. How easy it is to forget the admonishment against
adultery
when it is not prominently posted at every turn in the Capitol. 

The argument typically advanced in support of the government's dabbling
in
religion is that the constitutional mandate of a separation of church
and state
erodes the power of religious truths and leads inevitably to a liberal,
secular
and amoral society. 

How then is one to explain Condit, who has been an evangelical Christian
all
his life? There's nothing liberal or secular about him. He's a strong
pro-life,
family values, Bible-quoting son of a Baptist minister who is rated
highly by
the Christian Coalition and flunks out with the ACLU. 

...
No more pearly white smile for photogs but the power haircut will look
good when he
does the perp walk in orange.

Re: Digital Cash

[Jim Choate]

Have you looked at Plan 9? It would allow you to run the 'mint' as a
independent distributed service for all users that actually runs as no
user. It would require a 'virtual filespace' so the requisite binaries and
such don't reside on any one machine, not native but that's doable as
well. Once started, as long as there were any Plan 9 process/file spaces
available the service would 'live'.

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Ray Dillinger wrote:
 
> I've been attempting to design a decentralized auction/
> exchange system that permits pseudonymous participants.  
> By 'decentralized', I mean that NO central server, or 
> subset of individual servers, controls access to any 
> resource the system cannot work without; that there 
> is no single point of failure. 
> 
> A consequence of this is that every ability that exists 
> in any node, must exist in every node.  So the whole 
> problem of currency issue gets the slightly weird 
> solution of "everybody has to be able to print their 
> own money."  
> 
> The sticking point is that this basically means the 
> system will be without any single universal "currency".
> A lot of E-cash techniques are usable, but what you wind 
> up trading is certificates that represent goods or 
> services offered by individuals in the system -- Alice 
> the Farmer might issue certificates for bushels of 
> wheat, while Bob the Carpenter might issue a bunch of 
> certificates that say "collect a thousand of these and 
> I'll redeem them for a new 10x10 meter deck on your house" 
> and Carol the moneychanger might promise to redeem hers 
> for one US dollar each, just for the amusement value of 
> "redeeming" something in a system where hard currencies 
> are the norm with a fiat currency. So these would be  
> effectively a sort of digital merchants scrip, reducing 
> back down to barter.
> 
> Exchange rates between the currencies issued by different 
> participants would fluctuate according to trust and 
> commodity values, and I'm okay with that.  Given the 
> nature of the trust/reputation thing, I'd expect only 
> a very small percentage of the participants to *actually* 
> issue their own currency, as they wouldn't get good 
> acceptance/exchange values until widely known, but 
> everybody would have the ability.
> 
> The problem I'm running into is that while all kinds of 
> e-cash protocols exist that protect the anonymity of 
> the buyer and a lot protect the anonymity of the seller, 
> there are none that protect the anonymity of the currency 
> issuer, which would be ideal in this circumstance.  With 
> the techniques I know of, the issuer can have only "Nym" 
> protection. 
> 
> The basic problem with anonymizing the issuers (beyond 
> technique alone) would be how the scrip gets redeemed 
> when you don't necessarily know whom the issuer is.
> 
> Can anybody recommend appropriate reading?
> 
> 
> 
>   Bear
> 

Your Membership Exchange

[Your Membership Newsletter]

Title: Your Membership Exchange









 
 



	
	 
	 



	 
	 Your Membership Exchange, Issue #428
	 




	 
	July 11, 2001 
	 



	


	 
	
	
	
	
		
		
		
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    H. Leach: Ways to accept
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Subject: Any help with Cold Fusion?
One of the web sites I administer was developed with
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ANSWERS:
From: Silktat2  - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:  Ways to accept credit cards
>From: richard burgess - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Connecting credit card payments to site? (Issue #426)
>
-- >I have been enjoying and learning via your information -
thank you. Now I am almost ready to launch my internet
business, but as I am quite naive to this, I can't
seem to find a way to connect visa or other credit
cards for payment for my service. < --
Hello Richard,
There are quite a few ways to set up for credit cards.
1. CCNow, they do everything for you and send any sales you
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go to their site at http://www.ccnow.com/
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2. PayPal is another option to be able to take credit card on your
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The above are for small business just starting out on the internet,
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If you are actually doing a large volume business there are other
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I have used both of the methods described above and been very
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Hope this helps
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Who can tax a satellite?

[mmotyka]

The power to destroy is the power to tax. Did I get that backwards? I'm
sorry. The power to tax is the power to destroy. I suppose it makes no
difference. It's a statement of equivalence rather than implication.
Nothing neutral about it, is there?

Black Unicorn wrote:
> 
> No, the real question is who can knock down or render inoperable the OWNER
> of the satellite.
> 
They're first cousins, I suppose.

> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 8:58 AM
> Subject: Who can tax a satellite?
> 
> > > ``I'm neutral on the whole thing,'' he said. ``My job is to make sure
> all
> > > property that's taxable gets assessed and I'm going to follow the law.
> If
> > > the law says its not taxable it's not taxable. If it is taxable I will
> > > assess it.''
> > >
> > I suppose, as with any racket, whoever has the ability to knock the
> > satellites down or render them inoperable could levy a "tax" on them.

Re: Taxifornia becomes interplanetary menace (fwd)

[Ray Dillinger]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Eugene Leitl wrote:


>L.A. May Be Shot Down in Bid to Tax Satellites
>By Dan Whitcomb


>Auerbach insisted that he was not pushing for a tax on the satellites but
>was simply doing his job and trying to determine whether they should be
>taxed.
>
>``I'm neutral on the whole thing,'' he said. ``My job is to make sure all
>property that's taxable gets assessed and I'm going to follow the law. If
>the law says its not taxable it's not taxable. If it is taxable I will
>assess it.''

Just imagine what things would be like if assessors were paid on 
commission. Tax Farming, anyone?

Bear

Re: freq meter vs. spectrum analyzer for sweeping

[measl]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, A. Melon wrote:

>   Umm, all the stuff being sold for counter surveillance are frequency
> counters of one sort or another.  

That's because Joe Sixpack can't even *hope* to afford a decent spectrum
analyzer.  My *nine year old* HP cost me just under $8,000.00 - _used_.

If you are serious about sweeping, go rent one of these.  Get one that
covers at least up to 22ghz.


-- 
Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...

Pocket Wang Watch

[George]

Apparently the Wisconsin Supreme Court (that's one of our states,
right?) just ruled a man convicted of failure to pay child support
justly has less rights than unconvicted people: if he has any more
children they will jail him.



How much is an NYPD plunger up the ass worth?

$9 million dollars.

Plug me.



 Subject: Re: Dropping out of the USA
 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:26:15 -0700
 From: Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
#
#In any case, it's absurd to think one would
#move to Russia to escape the problems of the U.S.

Didn't you post that it was when you saw billboards in
the area where you lived in Spanish that you knew it
was time to move?



http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,27126,00.htmlJun 13 2001

Recently, Angelina Jolie admitted she couldn't stop thinking
about sex, and loves it when men look at her.

Re: why roasting Condit's weenie is delicious -watching the watchers

[mmotyka]

Gee who would've guessed he'd be a hypocrite?

It never ceases to amaze me how the religions and their followers have
convinced themselves and plenty of others that religion is the source of
ethical thought, that they are the originators and keepers of the
principles that arguably help people live together in groups. They're
mere adopters and plagiarists and not for altruistic purposes either.

>
>from
>http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/iprs/20010711/cm/ten_commandments_sponsor_finds_demons_chasing_him_1.h>tml
>
>
>Clearly Condit was declaiming against his own demons when he
>co-sponsored legislation calling for displaying the Ten Commandments in
>public buildings. How easy it is to forget the admonishment against
>adultery
>when it is not prominently posted at every turn in the Capitol. 
>
>The argument typically advanced in support of the government's dabbling
>in
>religion is that the constitutional mandate of a separation of church
>and state
>erodes the power of religious truths and leads inevitably to a liberal,
>secular
>and amoral society. 
>
>How then is one to explain Condit, who has been an evangelical Christian
>all
>his life? There's nothing liberal or secular about him. He's a strong
>pro-life,
>family values, Bible-quoting son of a Baptist minister who is rated
>highly by
>the Christian Coalition and flunks out with the ACLU. 
>
>...
>No more pearly white smile for photogs but the power haircut will look
>good when he
>does the perp walk in orange.
>

Re: Who can tax a satellite?

[David Honig]

At 08:58 AM 7/11/01 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I suppose, as with any racket, whoever has the ability to knock the
>satellites down or render them inoperable could levy a "tax" on them.

Heh, right on.  But some dingleberry in LA is not about to violate an
international
space treaty without *really* needing the publicity.  The treaty that
says you don't fight in space.  (Yes, I know its toast when next the US
needs to perform a little orbital cleansing.)

Besides, when multiple gangs see an untaxed (but coercable) resource, they'll
fight amongst themselves first for the territory.







 






  

Re: Who can tax a satellite?

[David Honig]

At 02:30 PM 7/11/01 -0700, Black Unicorn wrote:
>No, the real question is who can knock down or render inoperable the OWNER
>of the satellite.
>

Cable landfalls... satellite control centers.. MAE... ESS.. same thing.

I suppose that is a plug for a fully distributed system like 
pipe/black/whateverNet...







 






  

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Put your email address in body of email and send email to here
  

  



~

Privacy: Where's the Profit? event Thurs 7/12 in Mountain View

[Declan McCullagh]

- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

From: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FC: Privacy: Where's the Profit? event Thurs 7/12 in Mountain View
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:03:35 -0400
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2
X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/

[I was scheduled to participate in this event organized by the Silicon 
Valley Association of Startup Entrepreneurs but, alas, won't be able to 
make it. It promises to be an excellent discussion, and I urge Politech 
members in the area to stop by. --Declan]

*

http://www.svase.org/nextmeeting.htm

THE MAIN EVENT:
SVASE Monthly Meeting

Privacy: Where's the Profit?

Microsoft Campus, Mountain View
Thursday, July 12, 2001, 6 pm

Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of startup business plans are based on 
exploiting privacy technologies. Technologies that protect privacy --- as 
well as business plans based on those that undermine it --- seem to come 
out nearly every week. Existing or proposed federal privacy laws will have 
a huge impact on whether those plans ever succeed.

This extraordinarily high-powered panel of experts will sort through the 
issues and tell you what they view as the key issues for entrepreneurs 
facing - or hoping to make money from - the rules and regulations of 
electronic privacy.

Our keynote speaker and moderator JIM HARPER, based in Washington, DC, is 
one of the world's preeminent experts in privacy policy. He is the founder 
and principal of PolicyCounsel.Com, a lobbying and consulting firm focused 
on e-commerce, technology, and telecommunications. He is the founder of 
Privacilla.org, the only online think-tank devoted to privacy as a public 
policy issue. Mr. Harper served as counsel to committees in both the United 
States House of Representatives and the United States Senate. He now works 
to help Congress and regulators understand the New Economy. In his 
presentation to SVASE, Jim will unpack the complex concept of privacy and 
discuss the thinking and plans of legislators, regulators, and advocates. 
Progress & Freedom Foundation (http://www.pff.org/) 
recently named Jim as an Adjunct Fellow.

MARK UNCAPHER is Vice President and Counsel of the Information Technology 
Association of America, responsible for ITAA s Internet Commerce & 
Communications Division. The more than 100 members of the division include: 
Amazon.com, AOLTime Warner, AT&T, Boeing, Cable & Wireless, Covad 
Communications, EDS, Exodus, Focal Communications, Fujitsu Limited, Global 
Crossings, IBM, MCI WorldCom, Metromedia Fiber Network, Microsoft, Nortel 
Networks, SunGard Data, Teligent, and Yahoo. Uncapher argues that the issue 
is not about whether to protect consumer privacy on the Internet -- that is 
what the public expects and what Internet companies are determined to 
provide -- the challenge is to identify the best and most profitable ways 
to do so.

DAVE KRAMER is a litigation partner with the reknowned law firm Wilson 
Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati.  On the privacy front, Kramer has worked 
extensively with technology pioneers such as Google and Netscape, 
developing startups such as Napster and Yodlee, and new online entrants 
like Orbitz, Cogit and Enviz. Mr. Kramer will discuss the biggest threats 
companies currently face in the privacy arena, including privacy regulation.

DECLAN McCULLAGH is Washington Bureau Chief for Wired News. He has been 
writing about the Internet since 1990. McCullagh moderates politech, a 
mailing list looking broadly at politics and technology that was founded in 
1994. He has appeared on CNN, CNN-fn, Court TV, NPR, ABC News, CNBC, CBC, 
CSPAN, Reuters TV, and Fox News. He is a member of the International 
Academy of Digital Arts and Sciences and has been a judge in the Webby 
awards, the Ars Electronica awards, the Internet Freedom journalism awards, 
and the Pacific Research Institute technology privatization awards.

RAY EVERETT-CHURCH, is a Principal at PrivacyClue LLC.  Called the "dean of 
corporate privacy officers" by Inter@ctive Week Magazine, Ray 
Everett-Church is an internationally recognized expert on privacy law and 
policy. In 1999, he became the world's first corporate Chief Privacy 
Officer, a ground-breaking position soon adopted by dozens of Fortune 500 
firms. Founder of PrivacyClue LLC, a privacy-oriented consultancy, he 
advises firms on developing privacy measures consistent with existing laws, 
prevailing consumer attitudes, and acceptable industry practices.  He was 
previously an attorney with the Washington, DC-area telecommunications law 
firm of Haley Bader & Potts, and has counseled America Online, Microsoft, 
and numerous start-up ventures.

__ 


Meetings costs are as follows:

PRE-REGISTERED RATES
Member Meeting Only - FREE
Member Meeting & Dinner - $25
Non-Member Meeting & Dinner - $45
New Membership & Meeting - $1

Product Emerges in $Billion Industry

[equitywatch]

Title: Alert








  
  
  

  Rhino Ecosytems, Inc.

Symbol: RHNC
Traded: OTC Bulletin Board
Current Price: 0.25
52 Week High: 2.50
52 Week Low: 0.156

Web site: www.rhinodata.net
Recent Press: 7-10-01

  
  



  
Environmental concerns are once again at the forefront of the political landscape. Municipalities across North America are beginning to mandate what goes down the drains.

We have isolated Rhino Ecosystems, Inc. (OTC BB: RHNC) as the only player with a patented product in this niche market.

RHNC has signed a multi-year Master Dealer/Distribution Agreement with Watts Industries Canada, the Canadian subsidiary of the U.S. based Watts Industries Inc.
(NYSE:WTS)

Financial Facts:  In the fiscal year 1999 when the product was first launched, the company grossed $28,998. That number increased to $173,942 in 2000. The current market cap is approximately $1,650,000. Sales projections below validate our estimated price target.

Rhino currently has 34 dealers representing annualized unit sales commitments of 2.8 million dollars, which equates to an additional 1.6 million dollars in replacement filter sales for a total of 4 million dollars in revenue.

The estimate for 2001 is over 1 million USD and 2002 is anticipated to be over 10 million USD.

Detailed information about Rhino Ecosystems Inc. may be obtained by visiting
www.rhinodata.net.
  



  
  
  
  

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Of Mice and Men (forbidden knowledge)

[Aimee Farr]

Tim wrote:

> ...work on cloning is
> an exercise I'll leave for ... lawyers in Texas.

> Odds are excellent that they are at least several years away
> from actually attempting a human cloning. It's the groundwork, the
> precursor knowledge, that the government is now cracking down on. A
> very disturbing trend.

Sounds like a fertility researcher's work ON MICE has been sensationalized
into a lesbian-couple-cloning issue.

http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,2323873%255E11610,00.html
Babies: no men needed
By ANNA PATTY
12jul01

MEN may no longer be needed for human reproduction as a result of Australian
research.

Researchers from Monash University have developed a method of fertilising an
egg using cells from any part of a body  regardless of whether the body is
male or female.

Theoretically, it means that lesbian couples could reproduce without any
need for male sperm.
...

The technique has been used to fertilise a normal mouse egg by using a cell
taken from the body of another mouse.
...

A spokeswoman for Federal Attorney-General Daryl Williams said proposed
legislation to allow States to override sexual discrimination laws 
enabling them to prevent lesbian couples from participating in IVF
treatment  was before the Senate.

But Senator Brian Harradine said the Monash research was nothing short of
cloning. "The Monash researchers are engaging in asexual reproduction," he
said.

"These scientists are driven by the technological imperative  if it can be
done it should be done."

[...]


~Aimee

"Whatever we ain't got, that's what you want."

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Giganetstore.com apresenta Dmail

[info]

Title: giganetstore.com







		
			IDEIAS ÚTEIS E ORIGINAIS


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Re: screen name

[John Galt]

"fuckstain" HTH

On Mon, 2 Jul 2001, Harry Tod wrote:

>Please send me the name I used as a screen name, in my July 2,2001
>registration, thank you,
> Harry Tod
>

-- 
Armageddon means never having to say you're sorry.

Who is John Galt?  [EMAIL PROTECTED], that's who!

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