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Re: Lawyers, Guns, and Money
On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote: > > This is a good example of a point I made in my earlier post: academic > interests shift, following trends (translation: worth of granting tenure > for). Clipper and key escrow were very hot topics around 1993-95. Today, > it's stuff like ICANN and Napster (with Napster fading...). Tim makes a valid point here, but omits a companion point of perhaps greater importance, in context. Faddish as it sometimes-- well, hell, often--is, the academic side of the law is the *only* side of the law that even begins to reward originality. Those of us who actually represent people find that original thinking is the bane of most judges, unless you can make them believe the idea started with them. Any parallels in software, both as to faddishness among the "original" thinkers and leader-following otherwise? MacN
Re: Science News Online - Past Issues - 5/4/96
On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote: > On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, at 08:00 PM, Jim Choate wrote: > > > Speaking of splitting the cake, who gets the trim? > > > > http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arch/5_4_96/bob1.htm > That's a 5-year-old cite. > > You obviously used a search engine to search for related articles from a > post of mine. Have you no shame? It was the first cite I cam across that mentioned the 'gets so small that nobody cares' aspect...suited my purposes just dandy. Within that sentence is another whole aspect of the 'fair n-slice problem', for example; how does it get small? Consider the situation where you have a cake and n-people and use a scale to measure the slices. The goal being to get them all weighing the same within some measure of error. An associated question is, given a starting quantity (q), a number of players (n), and a given error (dq), what is the maximum number of 'slice and dices' you will need to go through? How does that change when it's a fixed percentage by volume error (ie %g/g)? Or perhaps (as likely with people) a fixed minimum volume that one can resolve (while this reduces for homogenious quantities, what happens when it's heterogenous)? From a applications perspective this seems like a pretty important issue. -- natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
WEP is dead, how's the reception?
So WEP is dead, and the following are known: 1. you can drive around a city and sniff data (one ref) 2. folks can point a pair of dishes at each other and do 10 miles w/out extra ampl. (many refs) I'm curious: what range can you intercept 802.11 data with reasonable S:N assuming that the source is *not* cooperating as in 2. above. Lets try to answer this. A 2-m dish could give 30 db? (Damn, used to know that function of wavelength...) How many times the default range does 30 db give? (Damn, 30 dB is probably a power figure? 30 db is 1,000 times... range would be a square of radiated power.. sqrt 1000 is 30 something.. range of 802.11 is probably 100 m? so 3 Km, 1.5 mi with a man-sized fixed dish... too directional to drive with...
Re: Raid 'em, raid 'em now.
I know raccoons like my garbage and are creative about getting to it. Does that tell me something about Crawford, Texas? MacN On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Aimee Farr wrote: > spotlighted a tree around here, you would think it was Secret Squirrel > mating season. (If you know anything about raccoons and Crawford, Texas.) > > ~Aimee
Re: Anonymous Posting
At 10:59 PM 8/21/01 -0400, An Metet wrote: > >So sign your messages. With your true name, if that's important. > And for eternity, whether you like it or not.
Re: Lawyers, Guns, and Money
On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, at 08:25 PM, Mac Norton wrote: > On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote: >> >> This is a good example of a point I made in my earlier post: academic >> interests shift, following trends (translation: worth of granting >> tenure >> for). Clipper and key escrow were very hot topics around 1993-95. >> Today, >> it's stuff like ICANN and Napster (with Napster fading...). > > Tim makes a valid point here, but omits a companion point of > perhaps greater importance, in context. Faddish as it sometimes-- > well, hell, often--is, the academic side of the law is the > *only* side of the law that even begins to reward originality. > Those of us who actually represent people find that original > thinking is the bane of most judges, unless you can make them > believe the idea started with them. I fully agree with this point...I thought I indicated this by frequently referring to professors, academic programs, etc. The only "lawyers" who get to do any substantive research are those working for or with prestigious law professors, or for a few dozen justices. Everyone else is processing writs and regurgitating old boilerplate. Or maybe teaching young larvae who think they're about to change the world. > > Any parallels in software, both as to faddishness among > the "original" thinkers and leader-following otherwise? Many parallels. Nearly all programmers and engineers are doing what they are told to do. Only a small fraction are able to strike out in new directions. While we celebrate programmers like Linus Torvalds, most programmers are doing the programming equivalent of processing wills and divorces. Drones rule, especially in a drone-dominated field like "the law." Only study law if this is the kind of dronedom you prefer. --Tim May
Re: Arresting Henry Kissinger
Well, "under our laws" may be a non sequitur here, as I don't think any of the discussion, with one possible exception, has involved any law of the US. As to other laws, most importantly the international body thereof, there is a respectable--note I do not say persuasive, as I don't have enough facts--that Kissinger as a "subordinate" was carrying out the policy of the state and, as such an actor, may be clothed with sovereign immunity. This is not an uncomplicated area of the law, and is one that gets very deep very fast. It's also one of those areas where the law is about as far divorced from common morality and decency as it ever gets. MacN On Wed, 22 Aug 2001, Anonymous wrote: > The Village Voice has an article which approaches the question of how > to make a citizen's arrest of Henry Kissinger: > http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0133/ridgeway.php > > The article is apparently hostile to Kissinger, but plays down the > horror and extent of his crimes. Boilerplate excuses are offered. > Outrage at murder and kidnapping is curiously absent. > > "Kissinger was simply a very loyal, opportunist subordinate." > -- Daniel Ellsberg > > Does this exonerate other criminals under our laws? No. > Is it the truth? No. >
Anonymous Posting
Faustine wrote: > So why is it that the vast majority of the technical and insightful > contributions here seem to come from people who aren't averse to > using a reasonable simulacrum of a real name and address? I find the content from remailers is far higher than average for the list. > I made the deliberate choice not to use a remailer because I think > it's more interesting to contribute while having a prior body of > posts "attached" to me. People come to know more what to expect--and > if I irritate/bore/piss them off too much, they stop reading > me. Which is exactly as it should be. So sign your messages. With your true name, if that's important. > Though if you're after complete privacy re: your opinions and the > details of your life, you're better off not writing them down in the > first place, here or anywhere else. The technology isn't there yet, true, but it won't get there without deploying it and using it. Why isn't this obvious? > I assume everyone here weighed those considerations for themselves > before they got here: as far as I'm concerned, nobody has the > slightest business deciding it for anyone else. Don't worry, the cypherpunks list isn't going anywhere. It's just not realistic to put that genie back in the bottle. It would have to be a separate list entirely or one which rode on the current cypherpunks list. We may not be able to decide for others, but we can certainly look down on so-called cypherpunks who, in many cases, cannot even encrypt a message, never mind "writing code". Many, in fact, exhibit hostility towards remailers and anonymity, as you do. What I fail to understand is why such people are on this list in the first place, but, as you say, people make their own decisions. (None of these comments apply to Tim May, of course.)
Re: Science News Online - Past Issues - 5/4/96
On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, at 08:00 PM, Jim Choate wrote: > Speaking of splitting the cake, who gets the trim? > > http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arch/5_4_96/bob1.htm > > That's a 5-year-old cite. You obviously used a search engine to search for related articles from a post of mine. Have you no shame? --Tim May
Science News Online - Past Issues - 5/4/96
Speaking of splitting the cake, who gets the trim? http://www.sciencenews.org/sn_arch/5_4_96/bob1.htm -- -- natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: Lawyers, Guns, and Money
On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, at 04:30 PM, dmolnar wrote:
> Perhaps in evaluating potential programs, it would be helpful to list
> people in the policy + technology area who are worth looking into. Along
> perhaps with which institutions they studied at? I'll start. I regret
> that
> I'm not familiar with this area, and so I'm sure I'll overlook many
> interesting people. I'm also not sure what to do about people with some
> policy interests who are primarily cryptographers -- do we include Ron
> Rivest because of his work on electronic voting?
Ron Rivest is a good example to make some points about. Suppose Ron were
to have some kind of connection to a "policy" or "law" program
(presumably at MIT). Would he be a good guy to study under?
I'll answer. "Only if you favor his politics." Not that he demands
loyalty, so far as I know, but that he is not particularly Cypherpunkish
or libertarian. There is no particular reason why a Shamir or an Adleman
or a Rivest should be useful.
Probably studying under Varian at Berkeley, or Lessig at Stanford, would
be better. (Though I don't think people study "under" law professors, do
they? From my contacts at Stanford Law, via some talks I gave to Prof.
Rader's classes, my impression is that the kids are racing through
Stanford Law as fast as Daddy's money will take them, the better to get
the big bucks at the prestigious law firms.)
> L. Jean Camp (currently at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government)
>
> Was a student at CMU with Doug Tygar. Since then, Tygar has moved to
> UC-Berkeley; I don't know if Berkeley has any similar technology +
> policy
> program. She has done some work which would be of interest, including
> protocols for anonymous transactions, papers on how to handle law
> enforcement, and "Pricing Security."(Maybe relevant to the recent debate
> over insurance incentives for computer security; I haven't read it yet.)
Hal Varian has done much basic work in things like congestion pricing
for the Internet. A friend of mine, Robin Hanson, was connected with his
group for a while. (I think Robin is now at George Mason U. in Northern
Virginia...another place to look at.)
Robin is an interesting example of this thread in action. After years of
work as a programmer, and after developing the concept of "futures
markets" ("I bid $160 that such and such will happen by 2003"), Robin
decided to try to put his ideas to better use by going back to school.
He didn't take a night school law school degree, thus allowing him to
process wills and divorce papers in Outer Nowhere. No, he moved his
family to Pasadena and spent several years at Caltech getting his Ph.D.
in something related to game theory, economics, and policy. (Some of the
people in his group were those who solved the general N-person fair
slice of a pie problem. Long known to be solved perfectly for one slice,
via "Alice cuts, Bob chooses," it wasn't obvious how to extend this to N
slices.)
Robin made some substantial economic sacrifices in giving up several
years of Silicon Valley income for a load of debt.
>
> Michael Froomkin (U Miami law school)
> http://www.law.tm/
>
> Wrote "Flood Control on the Information Ocean." Among other things. Used
> to show up on cypherpunks once upon a time. I don't see where he went,
> so
> perhaps it doesn't matter.
Froomkin was fairly active on the list in 1993-96. I visited him when I
was in the Miami area. We were on some panels together at some CFP
conferences.
He's been doing a lot of work on ICANN things now.
This is a good example of a point I made in my earlier post: academic
interests shift, following trends (translation: worth of granting tenure
for). Clipper and key escrow were very hot topics around 1993-95. Today,
it's stuff like ICANN and Napster (with Napster fading...).
In a few years, these law professors may be concentrating on
international whaling laws. (Lessig, in "Code," notes that he was almost
exclusively focussed on Eastern European constitutional law issues
following the collapse of the Iron Curtain, as this was where some hot
issues were. The point being that a person going into "law" (or
"policy") should only do so because they love the field of law (or
policy) itself, not because they have some ideological axe to grind on
crypto policy.
"Do what you love, the money may follow."
--Tim May
Re: Bomb Law Reporter - special edition
At 03:31 PM 08/20/2001 -0400, Faustine wrote: >Eugene wrote: > > > and switching to an emission poor system (chucking CRT for LCD > > would do plenty for starters) > >Actually, that won't help you much: emissions from LCD screens can be >easier to decode than those from monitors. Active matrix LCD screens create >very strong and clear emissions--as long as a display uses some form of >pixel sweep where each pixel is activated at a unique time, then the >emissions are simple to decode. Though in theory LCD screens emit less than >a VDU, recent EMC controls have greatly reduced emanations from VDUs--with >the result that the graphics card will often be the greatest source of >compromise. Also, most laptops have a VGA connector on the back, which leaks heavily. An external VGA screen might be a bit quieter, because the cables can be shielded, but it still depends on how capable the attacker is. And basically, if the Feds are sitting outside your house listening to whatever they can from your computer, you've already blown your security :-) Shoulda used Blacknet.
Raid 'em, raid 'em now.
> At 06:02 PM 8/20/01 -0700, John Young wrote: > >Come to think of it Aimee's reminds of Jeff, and the timing > >is pretty good for another raid. > > > >Hark, wipe your disks. Mors et vita in manibus lingue. This terroristic defamation isn't funny, considering where I reside. If you spotlighted a tree around here, you would think it was Secret Squirrel mating season. (If you know anything about raccoons and Crawford, Texas.) ~Aimee
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Arresting Henry Kissinger
The Village Voice has an article which approaches the question of how to make a citizen's arrest of Henry Kissinger: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0133/ridgeway.php The article is apparently hostile to Kissinger, but plays down the horror and extent of his crimes. Boilerplate excuses are offered. Outrage at murder and kidnapping is curiously absent. "Kissinger was simply a very loyal, opportunist subordinate." -- Daniel Ellsberg Does this exonerate other criminals under our laws? No. Is it the truth? No.
CFP: Financial Cryptography '02 (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:13:13 -0400 From: Matt Blaze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: CFP: Financial Cryptography '02 Call for Papers Financial Cryptography '02 March 11-14, 2002 Sonesta Beach Resort Southhampton, Bermuda Sponsored by the International Financial Cryptography Association Original papers are solicited on all aspects of financial data security and digital commerce for submission to the Sixth Annual Conference on Financial Cryptography (FC '02). FC '02 brings together researchers in the financial, legal, cryptologic, and data security fields to foster cooperation and exchange of ideas. Relevant topics include: AnonymityInfrastructure Design AuditLegal and Regulatory Authentication and Issues Identification Loyalty Mechanisms Certification andPeer-to-Peer Systems AuthorizationPayments and Commercial Transactions Micropayments and ContractsPrivacy Digital Cash Risks Management Digital Rights Secure Banking Management Smart Cards Electronic PursesTrust Management Implementation IssuesWatermarking Information Economics Instructions for Authors: Complete papers (or complete extended abstracts) must be at most fifteen (15) single-spaced standard pages in length and must be received before 23h59 UTC on November 4, 2001. All papers must be submitted electronically. (In exceptional circumstances, paper submissions can be accepted, but special arrangements must be made with the program chair prior to October 31, 2001.) Papers must be in either standard PostScript or PDF format, and should be submitted via electronic mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] prior to the deadline. Note that submissions in formats other than PostScript or PDF, including word processor source formats such as MS Word or LaTeX, will be rejected. Submitted papers should include on the first page the title, all authors and their affiliations, a brief abstract, and a list of topical keywords. Papers must be original; submission of previously published material or papers under consideration in other conferences or journals is not permitted. Proposals for panels are also solicited, and should include a brief description of the panel as well as prospective participants. Panel proposals should be submitted by electronic mail to the same address, in plain ASCII format. Important Dates: Submissions due: November 4, 2001 Notifications to authors: December 23, 2001 Camera-ready papers due: February 4, 2002 General Chair: Nicko van Someren (nCipher) Program Committee: Matt Blaze, Program Chair (AT&T Labs) Dan Boneh (Stanford University) Stefan Brands (Zero Knowledge) Dan Geer (@stake) Ian Goldberg (Zero Knowledge) Angelos Keromytis (Columbia University) Paul Kocher (Cryptography Research) Ron Rivest (MIT) Tomas Sander (Intertrust) Rebecca Wright (AT&T Labs) - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Lawyers, Guns, and Money
On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Faustine wrote: > Harvard is supposed to have the best program, but here's a little something > I found online from the University of British Columbia which explains what > it's all about. This one seems a little business-heavy, but other analysis > programs have a lot more room to focus on technology policy. At least this Perhaps in evaluating potential programs, it would be helpful to list people in the policy + technology area who are worth looking into. Along perhaps with which institutions they studied at? I'll start. I regret that I'm not familiar with this area, and so I'm sure I'll overlook many interesting people. I'm also not sure what to do about people with some policy interests who are primarily cryptographers -- do we include Ron Rivest because of his work on electronic voting? -- L. Jean Camp (currently at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government) Was a student at CMU with Doug Tygar. Since then, Tygar has moved to UC-Berkeley; I don't know if Berkeley has any similar technology + policy program. She has done some work which would be of interest, including protocols for anonymous transactions, papers on how to handle law enforcement, and "Pricing Security."(Maybe relevant to the recent debate over insurance incentives for computer security; I haven't read it yet.) Home page: http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/degreeprog/courses.nsf/wzByDirectoryName/L.JeanCamp Publications: http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~.jcamp.academic.ksg/cv.html -- Lorrie F. Cranor (ATT Research) http://lorrie.cranor.org/ Works on Publius, P3P, online voting, other privacy-related issues. Attended Washington University in St. Louis for her PhD. Has links to pages on "Social Informantics" and "Value-Sensitive Design" which may be of interest. (Personally, I am intrigued, but I have a low tolerance for the way in which these are talked about; which is part of why I was not a History of Science major.) --- Susan Landau (Sun Microsystems) http://www.sun.com/research/people/slandau/ Went to MIT. Wrote _Privacy on the Line: The Politics of Wiretapping and Encryption_ with Whitfield Diffie. Michael Froomkin (U Miami law school) http://www.law.tm/ Wrote "Flood Control on the Information Ocean." Among other things. Used to show up on cypherpunks once upon a time. I don't see where he went, so perhaps it doesn't matter. By the way, what exactly do you *do* after you graduate from a technology and policy program? Every now and then I wonder if I will eventually end up in law school or a policy + technology program. The thought is alternately exciting and saddening. Then again, so is the prospect of being a "pure" researcher. -David Molnar
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Re: Bomb Law Reporter - special edition
John Young wrote: > Time to lay off Jim Choate, too, Sandy, smells like hysteria. What, are they still posting to this list? ;-) John, killfiles work great. Once you try it, you'll never go back.
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RE: Lawyers, Guns, and Money
isn't it easier to donate $$ to a political party and request an appointment? phillip > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Faustine > Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 6:05 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Lawyers, Guns, and Money > > > > Tim wrote: > > >But people should do what really drives them. Anyone going into law this > >late in the boom just to make money is probably going to be in for a > >rude awakening. Ditto for anyone going into it in order to do pro bono > >work on Cypherpunks issues. > > > Great points. If you're looking to make a difference re: > cypherpunk and pro- > libertarian issues and have a scientific and practical streak, > why not get > an advanced degree in policy analysis instead? You get a rock-solid > grounding in a number of critical disciplines, and put yourself in a > position to seriously affect policy on the broadest possible > stage. Not for > the ideological "purists" out there, but personally I don't see > anything at > all wrong with wringing every ounce of information you can get from the > real pros, whether they share your values or not. If there were a > number of > people committed to advancing libertarian issues who took this > approach, I > think it would be a great thing. > > Harvard is supposed to have the best program, but here's a little > something > I found online from the University of British Columbia which > explains what > it's all about. This one seems a little business-heavy, but other > analysis > programs have a lot more room to focus on technology policy. At > least this > gets you in the ballpark: > > > Policy Analysis and Strategy > > Overview > This PhD specialization covers both business strategy and public policy > analysis. It draws strongly on underlying foundations in economics and in > applied statistics. Topics in which faculty members have > expertise include > entrepreneurship and venture capital finance, international > investment, the > management of research and development, environmental management and > policy, experimental tests of game theory, competitive strategy and > competition policy, public enterprise and regulation, and international > trade policy. > > Undergraduate or masters-level training in economics and/or quantitative > disciplines such as mathematics, statistics or engineering would be a > typical background for qualified students. Students with undergraduate > backgrounds in commerce or business who have focused on the more > quantitative areas would also be well qualified for the program. > > Once students are admitted they have extensive interaction with faculty > members and attend a regular workshop run by the Policy Analysis > Division, > in addition to normal course work. The first major supervised research > project is undertaken in the student's first summer. Except for those > funded from outside sources, at least three years of funding is > guaranteed > to all admitted students. > > Program of Study > There is considerable flexibility in the programs of individual students. > All students are required to take a faculty-wide course in research > methodology and a faculty wide course in teaching methods. Other required > courses include: > Economics 500 Microeconomic Theory > Economics 565 Market Structure > Commerce 581 or equivalent Statistical Methods > Commerce 691 Advanced Topics in Policy Analysis > > The student will take at least four other courses to form two > "fields" (two > courses per field) and will normally take one or more additional > courses in > applied statistics or research methods. These courses will be chosen in > consultation with the Graduate Advisor and may be in the Commerce Faculty > or in other areas of study. > > Students normally complete their course work in two years and write > comprehensive exams at the end of the second year. However, students who > have taken prior graduate work may be able to complete course work > requirements more quickly. > > Sample Program Sequence > Year - 1 Fall COMM 693 (Research Methodology), COMM 581 (Statistical > Methods), Econ 500 (Microeconomic Theory), Elective or Field Course > Year - 1 Winter Econ 565, statistics course, 2 field courses > Year - 1 Summer Summer research paper > > Year - 2 Fall EPSE 506 (Teaching), COMM 691 (Topics in Policy Analysis), > statistics course, field course > Year - 2 Winter Field courses, electives > Year - 2 Summer Comprehensive exams > > Year - 3 Preparation and presentation of thesis proposal > > Year - 4 Preparation and defense of thesis
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Re: Lawyers, Guns, and Money
Tim wrote: >But people should do what really drives them. Anyone going into law this >late in the boom just to make money is probably going to be in for a >rude awakening. Ditto for anyone going into it in order to do pro bono >work on Cypherpunks issues. Great points. If you're looking to make a difference re: cypherpunk and pro- libertarian issues and have a scientific and practical streak, why not get an advanced degree in policy analysis instead? You get a rock-solid grounding in a number of critical disciplines, and put yourself in a position to seriously affect policy on the broadest possible stage. Not for the ideological "purists" out there, but personally I don't see anything at all wrong with wringing every ounce of information you can get from the real pros, whether they share your values or not. If there were a number of people committed to advancing libertarian issues who took this approach, I think it would be a great thing. Harvard is supposed to have the best program, but here's a little something I found online from the University of British Columbia which explains what it's all about. This one seems a little business-heavy, but other analysis programs have a lot more room to focus on technology policy. At least this gets you in the ballpark: Policy Analysis and Strategy Overview This PhD specialization covers both business strategy and public policy analysis. It draws strongly on underlying foundations in economics and in applied statistics. Topics in which faculty members have expertise include entrepreneurship and venture capital finance, international investment, the management of research and development, environmental management and policy, experimental tests of game theory, competitive strategy and competition policy, public enterprise and regulation, and international trade policy. Undergraduate or masters-level training in economics and/or quantitative disciplines such as mathematics, statistics or engineering would be a typical background for qualified students. Students with undergraduate backgrounds in commerce or business who have focused on the more quantitative areas would also be well qualified for the program. Once students are admitted they have extensive interaction with faculty members and attend a regular workshop run by the Policy Analysis Division, in addition to normal course work. The first major supervised research project is undertaken in the student's first summer. Except for those funded from outside sources, at least three years of funding is guaranteed to all admitted students. Program of Study There is considerable flexibility in the programs of individual students. All students are required to take a faculty-wide course in research methodology and a faculty wide course in teaching methods. Other required courses include: Economics 500 Microeconomic Theory Economics 565 Market Structure Commerce 581 or equivalent Statistical Methods Commerce 691 Advanced Topics in Policy Analysis The student will take at least four other courses to form two "fields" (two courses per field) and will normally take one or more additional courses in applied statistics or research methods. These courses will be chosen in consultation with the Graduate Advisor and may be in the Commerce Faculty or in other areas of study. Students normally complete their course work in two years and write comprehensive exams at the end of the second year. However, students who have taken prior graduate work may be able to complete course work requirements more quickly. Sample Program Sequence Year - 1 Fall COMM 693 (Research Methodology), COMM 581 (Statistical Methods), Econ 500 (Microeconomic Theory), Elective or Field Course Year - 1 Winter Econ 565, statistics course, 2 field courses Year - 1 Summer Summer research paper Year - 2 Fall EPSE 506 (Teaching), COMM 691 (Topics in Policy Analysis), statistics course, field course Year - 2 Winter Field courses, electives Year - 2 Summer Comprehensive exams Year - 3 Preparation and presentation of thesis proposal Year - 4 Preparation and defense of thesis
Re: NRC asks for reviewers for forthcoming Internet porn report
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Jim Choate wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > > > Maybe, maybe not. I'm the first to agree that porn *should* be treated as > > equal to other speech, > > But 'porn' is no more speech than 'murder' is. What makes porn so > offensive isn't the pictures, but the ACTS that had to be commited to > create the speech. No where in the 1st does it say that you can say and do > anything you want as long as it contains 'speech'. While the 'speech' part > is really irrelevant (and a wrong-headed way to resolve the issues > relating to the acts) there is still the component of the acts against > minors that needs to be dealt with. Those acts are in no way 'speech'. So in Choate Prime, in order that one make a movie of a person getting shot in the head, one would have to commit murder? So in Choate Prime, in order that one make a Godzilla stomps on Tokyo movie, one must first see the destruction of the city of Tokyo? So in Choate Prime, in order that one make a movie of an exploding nuclear bomb, decimating Hiroshima, one must build such a weapon and drop it on city? So in Choate Prime, are there no cartoons because it would be impossible to create them in real life? Porn is speech, the same as any other type of magazine, movie, sound, etc. The acts can and have been faked, as are the sound effects. The speech part isn't irrelevant, it's the whole, and only point of this disucssion. Yes, I know you'd bring up kiddy porn, but recall that not only movies of such acts are banned, but so are cartoons, comic books, etc. depicting such acts. In other words, here in the real world (i.e. not in Choate Prime), kiddy porn is thought crime, and thus it is restricted speech. So is going on Yahoo stock message boards and getting people to buy stocks so as to raise their price. So are sexual offers/requests in the office. I'm sure in your next elequent reply you will continue to tell us about your lovely world in its parallel dimension, which has no relation to ours, and we'll read it with fascination. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net
Re: NRC asks for reviewers for forthcoming Internet pornreport
On Wed, 15 Aug 2001, Jim Choate wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > > > Maybe, maybe not. I'm the first to agree that porn *should* be treated as > > equal to other speech, > > But 'porn' is no more speech than 'murder' is. What makes porn so > offensive isn't the pictures, but the ACTS that had to be commited to > create the speech. No where in the 1st does it say that you can say and do > anything you want as long as it contains 'speech'. While the 'speech' part > is really irrelevant (and a wrong-headed way to resolve the issues > relating to the acts) there is still the component of the acts against > minors that needs to be dealt with. Those acts are in no way 'speech'. So in Choate Prime, in order that one make a movie of a person getting shot in the head, one would have to commit murder? So in Choate Prime, in order that one make a Godzilla stomps on Tokyo movie, one must first see the destruction of the city of Tokyo? So in Choate Prime, in order that one make a movie of an exploding nuclear bomb, decimating Hiroshima, one must build such a weapon and drop it on city? So in Choate Prime, are there no cartoons because it would be impossible to create them in real life? Porn is speech, the same as any other type of magazine, movie, sound, etc. The acts can and have been faked, as are the sound effects. The speech part isn't irrelevant, it's the whole, and only point of this disucssion. Yes, I know you'd bring up kiddy porn, but recall that not only movies of such acts are banned, but so are cartoons, comic books, etc. depicting such acts. In other words, here in the real world (i.e. not in Choate Prime), kiddy porn is thought crime, and thus it is restricted speech. So is going on Yahoo stock message boards and getting people to buy stocks so as to raise their price. So are sexual offers/requests in the office. I'm sure in your next elequent reply you will continue to tell us about your lovely world in its parallel dimension, which has no relation to ours, and we'll read it with fascination. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net
RE: Bomb Law Reporter - special edition
anonymous wrote: >> Someone seriously does need to start a node which only accepts posts >> from remailers. >Or a list. One thing you know about an anonymous message - the poster >uses at least one cryptographic tool. Too many "cypherpunks" not only >don't write code, they can't even use code. So why is it that the vast majority of the technical and insightful contributions here seem to come from people who aren't averse to using a reasonable simulacrum of a real name and address? I made the deliberate choice not to use a remailer because I think it's more interesting to contribute while having a prior body of posts "attached" to me. People come to know more what to expect--and if I irritate/bore/piss them off too much, they stop reading me. Which is exactly as it should be. When I'm pressed for time here (as I usually am) I read people loosely ranked in order of how interesting I've found their posts to be in the past. I don't think I'd have the patience to wade through a big undifferentiated grab bag of irrelevant dross each day. And you know that's probably just what you'd end up with if no one had the slightest shred of accountability for any of their statements. There's too much discourse around here on the level of "you're a poopy head" "no, u r the poopy head" as it is. What does it really contribute? Besides a great example of Gresham's law in action, that is. For me, services like Hushmail and Cotse make for a nice compromise between full accountability (and full vulnerability) on one hand, and complete anonymity and privacy on the other. Though if you're after complete privacy re: your opinions and the details of your life, you're better off not writing them down in the first place, here or anywhere else. If what I "wanted" out of participating in the list were different, I can see myself making a different choice in either direction. I assume everyone here weighed those considerations for themselves before they got here: as far as I'm concerned, nobody has the slightest business deciding it for anyone else. ~Faustine.
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partnership request - sorry for the last message
I want to resell your OPTIN Email services. Please provide me with any information on how we can partner together. I have a large client base that is interested in doing opt-in email marketing. We are also going to do some heavy promoting of these services soon and would like to get the most profit for our efforts. Our current partners have raised their rates so we are looking elsewhere for new partnerships. Our website www.optinemailing.com will be the primary domain for optin mail marketing. We hope to hear back from you on this. We have enjoyed a 25% to 40% discount so far from our partners. We would prefer to have you handle all the financials for our clients and pay us a commission on our sales. We know that this in not always feasible. Please give us your terms and try and work somehting out. It would be appreciated if you could provide a capabilites list and a spreadsheet with categories and subcatgory listing the number of emails available from you. I appologize for this email if you no longer provide these services. Please disregard this message or pass it on to a contact who might have a need for such business. Thank you for your time. I look forward to hearing back from you on this proposal request for a business partnership. Jack Walzack Senior Consultant/Web Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 1-800-699-9154 Fax: 1-309-279-0334
Lawyers, Guns, and Money
Since none of the former, current, or larval lawyers have weighed in on the issue, I'll give my two bits. The question is this: is it a good idea for list members to go to law school? Issues of accredited vs. unaccredited, reputable vs. correspondence vs. diploma mills, etc. First, there are obviously already a huge number of lawyers in the U.S. I can't speak for Europe, where the "Eurorights" person is presumably from, but it's crystal-clear that there are many, many lawyers in the U.S. And a lot of kids in law school. And yet lawyers are working as low-paid paralegals, doing clerical work processing wills and divorces, and joining "law factories" where they probably make less money than engineers. Second, most of these lawyers won't be doing "interesting" work. See above. Certainly most won't be doing crypto or EFF-type work..unless they go to work for EFF, EPIC, etc. Those with a history of incisive comments on mailing lists and in crypto-related fora may find it possible to get in with these kinds of outfits. (But why bother? The D.C. groups are mostly lobbying groups...and my strong impression is that they are mainly oriented around their founders and chief mouthpieces. A junior lawyer would mainly be a water carrier for one of the luminaries.) Third, "pro bono" Cypherpunks-related work is not very remunerative, by definition, and also not very common. Even if one thinks of the Parker and Bell cases as "Cypherpunks-related," which I don't, there are not many of these cases. The recent cases of Dmitry/Adobe and West/Oklahoma are more related, but these are likely to be taken over by high-profile experts if they go to trial. What I'm saying is that a few lawyers will end up in interesting areas. The vast majority will be off in Skokie and Boise and L.A., processing immigration requests, meeting with DWI clients, and processing OSHA forms for Fortune 500 companies. I base this on statistics, on talking to some lawyer friends, and on experiences my brother in L.A. tells me about: he has some lawyer friends who went to UCLA Law School, some even studying under such luminaries in the online world as Eugene Volokh, and it's "slim pickings" these days for many of them. They simply don't have the luxury of picking cases to work on...they're grubbing to make ends meet, to pay off loans, and to maybe, just maybe, get a nominally permanent job at an acceptably prestigious law firm. A friend of mine is now a senior IP lawyer at a leading Silicon Valley law firm, so it _does_ happen. However, he left Intel in the mid-70s and went to Stanford Law School, so he beat the rush and he had the street credentials from his Intel work. Getting into law this late in the game is not for the faint of heart. Fourth, much too much is being made of the role of law in pushing or enhancing Cypherpunks-type themes. This goes back to Lessig's custom-law-technology analysis again. Fighting a few cases where some hacker is busted for being stupid is all well and good, but these cases are NOT altering the landscape in ways that certain technologies are. I suspect a lot of people these days (more than the several on the list who have spoken up) are talking about law school is that it's a way to change a career. Seen most cynically, it's a nebulous "in several years I'll be doing something different!" sort of shift. A lot easier to make plans to go to law school than to write a new software application, if one doesn't have the inspiration, that is. Fifth, consider that I can think of at least two vocal people on this list who went to law school and got J.D.s One or both may have passed bar exams. Neither are practicing anything related to law at this time. (Though their "legal training" may be slightly useful in their careers...that's not for me to say.) A third lawyer I'm not sure about...he was at a software company, but doing law-related stuff. There's a fourth lawyer, who may be a professor, but he's very quiet these days. Another former list member is definitely a lawyer, and has been active in crypto and ICANN issues. I just don't see spending 3-4 years in law school as being very exciting. And I don't mean my personal opinion of whether I'd go to law school or not: I mean that not much exciting work is being done by lawyers. Most are tucked-away in cubicles, in government offices, in small one-person offices scattered hither and yon. Processing wills. Forwarding escrow documents. Reviewing divorce papers. Ugh. But people should do what really drives them. Anyone going into law this late in the boom just to make money is probably going to be in for a rude awakening. Ditto for anyone going into it in order to do pro bono work on Cypherpunks issues. For the relatively few people--you know who you are--who have a sharp mind and are laying the groundwork for working in the "cyberlaw" industry, my analysis may not apply. My two bits. --Tim May
partnership request
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Re: Voluntary Mandatory Self-Ratings and Limits on Speech
On 21 Aug 2001, at 14:10, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote:
>
> >You're missing my general point. If you prefer that I not use "religion,"
> >I could just as easily use an example where certainly people of some
> >community think that some otherwise-constitutional practice is "harmful."
>
> True. Yet harm gives you cause for Common Law action, no?
>
Harm does, but "harm" doesn't. It's pretty easy to claim that
books and movies etc which "glorify" "bad" behavior lead to
viewers being more likely to engage in the bad behavior glorified,
or bad behavior in general, without even trying to claim that
a particular "bad book" was responsible for a particular crime.
I have two differnet reponses to this kind of accusation:
1) Bullshit, I'm not responsible for other people's actions.
2) If I agreed about it being "bad behavior" I wouldn't be
"glorifying" it in the first place.
> It's a question of where you draw the line between coerced and uncoerced. If
> many enough of your peers think it's good behavior to label your
> communications, and failure to do so leads to an amount of badwill, does
> that constitute coercion? If not, we have a voluntary system where social
> pressures encourage you to rate, but where the gain is not a direct economic
> advantage, but rather the avoidance of the badwill of others. One might
> argue that such "bad behavior" should be tolerated, and that rating is no
> longer properly "voluntary" if rating only means you avoid an extra-legal
> social sanction. Nevertheless, there is a definite incentive for a
> non-anonymous person to rate correctly (to maintain his reputation),
> sometimes an incentive to misrate regardless (like when you're advocating a
> politically incorrect opinion), and the extra possibilities afforded by
> anonymity in these situations (using a disposable tentacle to communicate
> and/or misrate). This way, anonymity does make a difference even in an
> uncoerced situation.
The problem with this analysis is that it ignores the crucial point
that the people calling for labelling ("voluntary" or otherwise)
are not your customers, they're people trying to protect their
own or their children's virgin eyes from content they find
offensive or blasphemous or whatever. You have an economic
incentive to please your customers, but you have no incentive to
please people who aren't your customers.
George
> Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], gsm: +358-50-5756111
> student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front
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Re: Voluntary Mandatory Self-Ratings and Limits on Speech
On Tuesday, August 21, 2001, at 04:10 AM, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote: > >> You're missing my general point. If you prefer that I not use >> "religion," >> I could just as easily use an example where certainly people of some >> community think that some otherwise-constitutional practice is >> "harmful." > > True. Yet harm gives you cause for Common Law action, no? No, not generally, not in the U.S. The lawyerpunks and lawyer larvae can explain in more detail, but a tort (civil action, not a criminal action) must have some element of either rights violation or breaking of a contract. A wall that falls over onto someone's property generates a possible tort, the failure to deliver a product according to a contract also does. But the fact that I claim I am "harmed" by Mormons in my midst does not. (Nor does an actual case of economic harm: if a bookstore is driven out of business by the arrival of a supergiant chain store, it will not win a tort case, generally speaking. This is because there is no "right to face no competition" and there was no non-compete contract. The little bookstore may try to argue that the large chain is in violation of some anti-bigness law, and many have, but this is somewhat different. And the small stores have not yet been successful in blocking the larger stores.) > It's a question of where you draw the line between coerced and > uncoerced. If > many enough of your peers think it's good behavior to label your > communications, and failure to do so leads to an amount of badwill, does > that constitute coercion? In English, "coercion" means by use of force. If your friends think you should do something, and you comply, this is not coercion in the sense implied here. (This may be "social coercion," but we mean something more specific.) Coercion means men with guns threatening people with imprisonment for displaying certain images, for example. Coercion is when Congress passes the Protection of the Children Act of 2002 and requires all ISPs to provide content-filtering labels and tools. This is the direction "content labelling" is going, not the voluntary system ALREADY IN PLACE. --Tim May
Re: Ex-MI6 agent put porn on police computer
At 09:30 AM 08/21/2001 -0400, Matthew Gaylor wrote: >TUESDAY AUGUST 21 2001 > >Ex-MI6 agent put porn on police computer >http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-2001290847,00.html > >BY JOANNA BALE > >A FORMER MI6 agent is facing prison after he admitted yesterday downloading >pornographic images of children on to his office computer while working at a >police headquarters. I guess that's another case of "Military Intelligence is an oxymoron"
Ex-MI6 agent put porn on police computer
TUESDAY AUGUST 21 2001 Ex-MI6 agent put porn on police computer http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-2001290847,00.html BY JOANNA BALE A FORMER MI6 agent is facing prison after he admitted yesterday downloading pornographic images of children on to his office computer while working at a police headquarters. Alan Coates, 53, a Cleveland police communications manager, was found with hundreds of explicit pictures of young girls and boys. Coates, who is married, had earlier stood trial at Newcastle Crown Court on 15 specimen charges of making indecent photographs of children. The jury failed to reach a verdict and a fresh trial was fixed for November. But after protesting his innocence for more than three years, Coates pleaded guilty yesterday to three charges from the original indictment. The father of two, whose civilian responsibilities matched those of a superintendent, linked up to pornographic sites using the "America on Line" service and created personal electronic files on the system to store the images. Graham Reeds, for the prosecution, told the court that the charges related to 34 images found on Coates's laptop computer which had been created in June 1998. Mr Reeds said: "They were deliberately saved so that he could have them for his own gratification and purposes." Coates, of Redford, Bishop Auckland, who will be sentenced on September 14 after the preparation of reports, was granted unconditional bail. He worked for the British and American Governments for more than 30 years as an expert in the art of bugging and surveillance techniques. In the mid-80s his expertise had become so great that he was drafted into MI6, where he was involved in "extremely sensitive" government work. He was vetted in 1967, 1976 and 1980, the checks failing to reveal his weakness for child pornography. The computer images were discovered during an administrative check while Coates was in Berlin on business. ** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **
Offender Registration: Duty to Register
Offender Registration: Duty to Register DMCA Offenders and WIPO Offenders It is a crime to fail to register. If you have been convicted of a DMCA offense or WIPO crime, you may be required to register with local law enforcement under California law. If the offense was added to the registration law after the date of your conviction, you may not have received personal notice of your duty to register as a DMCA or WIPO offender. Check with your local law enforcement agency to see if the offense for which you were convicted requires registration. To register, go to the police department in the city where you live or are located, or the local sheriff's department if you are in an unincorporated area. If you have questions about your DMCA offense or WIPO conviction, or need to know whether your out-of-state conviction is the equivalent of a registrable offense in California, contact the DMCA and WIPO Registration Program in the California Department of Justice by e-mail at [EMAIL PROTECTED], or the address below: DMCA and WIPO Registration Program California Department of Justice P.O. Box 903387 Sacramento, CA 94203-3870 http://caag.state.ca.us/registration/index.htm
EU lawyerpunks? (was: lawyerpunks-in-training...?)
Steve Furlong wrote: > Dave Smith asked about law schools for Cypherpunks. > > I've been in law school for the past year. I work as a programmer and > am interested in c-punk issues, so I guess I'm a cypherpunk. Does anyone know about any online law schools in EU that would be suitable for a lawpunk-wannabe? Seems like the EU cyberrights movement is starting to get some traction, and they (erm, we) could use people with some legal training. -- LarsG
Notícias Jurídicas: 3a. feira, 21 de agosto de 2001
em 21/08/2001 Reajuste maquiado da Unimed Decisão do STJ, fulminando o derradeiro agravo de instrumento da Unimed Porto Alegre, confirmou sentença e acórdão da Justiça gaúcha, que criam um precedente que pode garantir a continuidade dos antigos contratos de assistência médica, clínica e hospitalar. Leia mais em www.espacovital.com/coluna Contrato com clínica Uma outra decisão da 5ª Câmara Cível do TJRS obriga a Unimed Jacuí a manter o credenciamento da Clínica Cardiológica Schuster Ltda., de São Jerônimo, como prestadora de serviço na região carbonífera do Estado. Leia mais em www.espacovital.com/coluna Contaminação de Aids por lixo hospitalar A Associação dos Funcionários Municipais de Porto Alegre foi condenada a indenizar com 200 salários mínimos (R$ 36 mil) o menor V. M. D., sucessor de sua tia M. S. I. M. Leia mais em www.espacovital.com/coluna Supressão de um grau para agilizar O caso do erro médico e laboratorial oriundo de Santo Ângelo e aqui comentado na 6ª feira (17), trouxe, no julgamento pela 9ª Câmara, uma solução que interessa aos advogados sob o ponto-de-vista processual: a supressão de um grau de jurisdição, para agilizar o final da demanda. Leia mais em www.espacovital.com/coluna Quatro novas súmulas do STJ No. 254 - "A decisão do Juízo Federal, que exclui da relação processual ente federal não pode ser reexaminada no Juízo Estadual". No. 255 - "Cabem embargos infringentes contra acórdão, proferido por maioria, em agravo retido, quando se tratar de matéria de direito". No. 256 - "O sistema de protocolo integrado não se aplica aos recursos dirigidos ao STJ" . No. 257 - "A falta de pagamento do prêmio do seguro obrigatório de danos pessoais causados por veículos automotores de vias terrestres (DPVAT) não é motivo para a recusa do pagamento da indenização". (Esta, para entrar em vigor, ainda depende das publicações regimentais) Veja mais Em www.espacovital.com/asmaisnovas.htm estão disponíveis, também, as seguintes matérias: Litigar contra o governo virou um jogo de "faz-de-conta" reconhece o presidente do STJ. Reparação a cada família que morava no Palace II chega a 1.250 salários mínimos. Justiça manda leiloar fazenda de Luiz Estevão. Colégio Israelita e professora condenados por acidente com queimaduras em sala de aulas. Garagem de imóvel residencial pode ser penhorada. Medicamentos e aparelhos auditivos não podem ser deduzidos do Imposto de Renda. Decreto regulamenta artigo da lei sobre auxílio-alimentação. Mais: Texto do novo Código Civil (ainda sujeito a retoques e à sanção presidencial). Todas as súmulas do STJ, atualizadas até 20 de agosto de 2001. Resolução No. 2878 do Bacen, que regula as relações dos bancos com seus clientes (estes, como consumidores). Estatuto da Cidade. Esta mensagem está sendo enviada para pessoas que possam ter interesse em informações de casos judiciais. Seu nome foi incluído por indicação de amigos ou associação da qual é filiado. Ademais este e-mail está sendo enviado de conformidade com as normas sobre o envio de correio eletrônico aceitas nos Estados Unidos, Seção 301, § (a) (2) (c) do Decreto S.1618, Título terceiro aprovado pelo "105 Congresso Base das Normativas sobre SPAM . Um e-mail não poderá ser considerado SPAM quando inclua uma forma de ser removido. Caso queira indicar alguém, envie o endereço para nós. Se deseja que seu nome seja excluído basta enviar e-mail sem texto para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Voluntary Mandatory Self-Ratings and Limits on Speech
On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Tim May wrote: >You're missing my general point. If you prefer that I not use "religion," >I could just as easily use an example where certainly people of some >community think that some otherwise-constitutional practice is "harmful." True. Yet harm gives you cause for Common Law action, no? >The U.S. Constitution is in fact a series of limitations on what >government may do...including what it may due to its "subjects." That's also precisely what I meant, even if I expressed it a bit differently. >We don't need a proposal for "voluntary self-labelling"...if it's >voluntary, people can already do it. In fact, they already do. Of course, >what people are now doing is not at all what the proponents of "voluntary >self-labelling" apparently intend to be the voluntary labels. That is precisely why I said labelling is a "nice gesture". The Code must not concern itself with labelling, but you *can* do it, some people want labelled content, and there are political advantages in both rating your content and having truly voluntary raters around. Why not be one of them, then? If you don't want to, it's always a valid reason. I just think there are valid gains in rating, and so e.g. to a degree rate my own site. >Truly voluntary self-labelling, without imposed standards, is IPSO FACTO >what we already have, right? If someone voluntary says their site is "hot" >or chooses to say nothing, this is "voluntary." > >Right? Quite. My argument was about what is "nice", no more. >> As for misrating, that's a problem of reputation. If you can solve it >> in an anonymous economy, you can certainly solve it in a non-anonymous >> rating context. >> >Actually, this is a separate topic worthy of more discussion that simply >saying "you can certain solve it in a non-anonymous rating context." How? Maybe we should limit discussion to this as it's more cypherpunkish than rating/labelling per se. >By the way, what does anonymous vs. non-anonymous have to do with truly >voluntary self-ratings, that is, whatever anonymous or non-anonymous >agents _say_? > >A voluntary system means an uncoerced system... It's a question of where you draw the line between coerced and uncoerced. If many enough of your peers think it's good behavior to label your communications, and failure to do so leads to an amount of badwill, does that constitute coercion? If not, we have a voluntary system where social pressures encourage you to rate, but where the gain is not a direct economic advantage, but rather the avoidance of the badwill of others. One might argue that such "bad behavior" should be tolerated, and that rating is no longer properly "voluntary" if rating only means you avoid an extra-legal social sanction. Nevertheless, there is a definite incentive for a non-anonymous person to rate correctly (to maintain his reputation), sometimes an incentive to misrate regardless (like when you're advocating a politically incorrect opinion), and the extra possibilities afforded by anonymity in these situations (using a disposable tentacle to communicate and/or misrate). This way, anonymity does make a difference even in an uncoerced situation. >this point explodes in too many obvious directions for me to even try to >write about here, given the low level of interest in the discussion the >two of us have been having. Agreed. If the topic of rating once again surfaces, for whatever reason, we can always pick it up then. For now it does seem interest is minimal. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], gsm: +358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front
JAG: The Show, The Cast and Crew, The Convention
Title: email document JAG has just been renewed for another two years. The fans are estatic. JAGnik's around the world prepare to unite for the second JAG Convention known as JAGnik Invasion 2001. Hosted by JAGnik Association, the convention will be held at the Four Points Sheraton LAX and will include Saturday sessions with the main cast, the guest cast, as well as recurring cast members. The Sunday session features the production staff of JAG and the Brunch with the Stars. For more information about the convention visit www.jagnik.com or call 1-800-701-2311. WWW.JAGnik.com contains tons of information about the show, the cast, the crew, the convention, including over 21000 still images. Soon we will be featuring video clips of apecial appearances by the cast and crew of JAG. For information about the show's episodes use this link http://www.jagnik.com/show/ For information about the cast check this out http://www.jagnik.com/cast/ For information about the crew please use this section http://www.jagnik.com/crew/ For information about the convention look here http://www.jagnik.com/convention/ To view the current issue of JAG News and Views click here http://www.jagnik.com/news_views/currentissue. Have fun!! We comply with proposed federal legislation regarding unsolicited commercial e-mail by providing you with a method for your e-mail address to be permanently removed from our database and any future mailings from our company. To remove your address, please click the following linkRemove me from further mailingsor send an e-mail message with the word REMOVE in the subject line to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you do not type the word REMOVE in the subject line, your request to be removed will not be processed.
