Re: secure IRC/messaging successor
At 06:41 PM 08/30/2001 +0200, Eugene Leitl wrote: Gale http://www.gale.org/ seems a well thought out infrastructure. Is the consensus this is it, or have I missed any alternatives? Jabber seems to be emerging as the main cross-ISP instant messaging platform. I'm not sure how much security it offers, but I've heard that somebody's doing something along those lines.
Re: cryptosocialismo
-- On 2 Sep 2001, at 8:37, mattd wrote: cryptoanarchy aka cryptocapitalism seems to be in crisis.Should the hardcore libertarian individualist tap into a new source of fire?During the spanish civil war/revolution,in anarchist controlled areas,individuals were free to cultivate individual lots and some did.After a while most drifted to the collectives That story commie fiction, and also completely irrelevant.If anyone wants a rerun of the debate about the failure of anarcho socialism, look up http://www.jim.com/cat/ --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG rsxWWWvR7ZUtdGlLT31y0OUYnplTsPfmPT+1tYyk 490OyRsnLUu2Nr7XRFx9rZl59ey2bFWTsoadZDd3A
Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
James A. Donald:-- James A. Donald: Hitler won an election. Elections are not revolutions. Jim Choate The election alone didn't make him Fuhrer The fact that a majority voted for totalitarianism and plurality voted for Hitler did make him fuhrer. And regardless of what made him Fuhrer, it was not a revolution. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG RpelMIrX2K4QW9RrV+FQSoasyeDmQ2AZiYJRqChp 4ZIDF43ciehEL5FHHjzW8DkYtOVIkC89UFJ3r8Y4c
RE: Jim Bell sentenced to 10 years in prison
-- On 1 Sep 2001, at 16:12, Faustine wrote: All I'm saying is that if the feds are doing their job well, they won't stick out at all. Smells like a witch hunt. Fortunately government employees seldom do their jobs well. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG VMG1ETupIefAXUXhriXMx/jYuZ/GAkBiR2bp0dam 4j11sKNzaPkhkV9Dcny7kqNAWJLgxx2fb75bC3eBw
Re: How strong Can I?
On Sunday, September 2, 2001, at 01:44 AM, Dave wrote: Im writing a toy for personal use that i may give away sooner or later, are there limits on how strong i can make the crypto max key length for personal, use for free distrubtion inside the us? Not sure on the exact legalities involved if i gave it way... Some help would be nice. There are no restrictions whatsoever...except... -- you can't give certain kinds of crypto to Bad People (Hizbollah, Bader-Meinhof, Kurds in Turkey (OK to give to Kurds in Iraq), and so on...consult the List of Bad People). -- your program may be subject to a Secrecy Order, similar to the one that silenced the inventor of the PhasorPhone. If this happens you will not be able to disclose your invention to anyone and you may be unable to even reveal that you are under such a Secrecy Order. Other than these possibilities, go for it, dude. --Tim May
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Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
On Sat, 1 Sep 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And regardless of what made him Fuhrer, it was not a revolution. It wasn't? They passed a law moving all the presidents power to Hitler against the constitution. Then they got the military to swear an oath to Hitler, not Germany. In other words in the space of two years they went from a democracy to a tyranny. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... -- natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: cryptosocialismo
On Sat, 1 Sep 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- On 2 Sep 2001, at 8:37, mattd wrote: cryptoanarchy aka cryptocapitalism seems to be in crisis.Should That story commie fiction, and also completely irrelevant.If anyone wants a rerun of the debate about the failure of anarcho socialism, look up http://www.jim.com/cat/ crypto-anarcy anarcho-socialism crypto-capitalism -- natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: cryptosocialismo
Choate wrote: crypto-anarcy anarcho-socialism crypto-capitalism That's part but not all. Anarchy is not an absolute, only an opposition to the prevailing archy whether capitalist, socialist, capitalistic-socialism, socialistic-capitalism, and their mealy-mouthed democratic-communistic- oligarchic-theocratic precursors, successors and variations. Anarchy is wonderfully chameleonic, which is why it is the favorite cloaking for undercover agents of the all the rest. And best, there are no leaders, only those who disavow being leaders and thereby reveal their true colors. True leaders, a contradictory oxymoron, never preen, are never courageous, never perform exceptional actions, would never call attention to themselves so ineptly, and do not exhibit exhibitionistic characteristics such as lecturing and preaching to obsequious non-followers how to follow obediently without orders being issued. At least that is what the anarchist bible commanded before it became discredited by overspin. Then came the prefixes to fix that with branding. Now those prefixtual brands get hammered, rightly so, and leftly so, so what, so easy, so ignorant. Old Time Anarchy was invented by authoritarians to entrap firebrand fools. Not much has changed. Old fools hustling the youngsters. This is not a confession merely, but a bible quote, or I forget which list this is.
SIG: CNN.com - Ultrafast wireless technology set to lift off - August 30, 2001
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/08/30/ultrafast.wireless.idg/index.html -- -- natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
-- James A. Donald: And regardless of what made him Fuhrer, it was not a revolution. Jim Choate: It wasn't? They passed a law moving all the presidents power to Hitler against the constitution. They passed a law is not a revolution, even if the law was unconstitutional, and it was far more plausibly constitutional than many recent acts of congress and recent supreme court decisions. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG sCjb3FyPkIA3ccCv1Edyms5TE8T8r5azQl1n/vTC 4ZUWu+8KwHCZrQsD98OEVKe12WiTrkmV15ORw/BkG
Re: Stealth Computing Abuses TCP Checksums
On 2 Sep 2001, at 9:37, Tim May wrote: Since I haven't noticed anyone else point this out (apologies for my redundancy if I just somehow missed it), it's worth mentioning that the original result was more of a gee whiz, it's interesting we can do this in principle type of thing than an actual threat of something anybody would ever actually do. Yes, you can trick a remote host into performing calculations for you with a specially prepared message, but it requires a hell of a lot more effort to prepare the message than it would to perform the calculation yourself. Why would you think this is always so? Gut hunch. It would not take much effort to arrange a computation that consumed a lot of CPU cycles and returned a result, once one has gotten access to a remote machine. The case of the corportate employee using machines he could access to compute a screensaver/P2P job for a possible winning payoff comes to mind. Granted, he may have had permissions to access these machines, but the general point is that someone who got past these permissions could have done the same compute-intensive thing. I was referring to the specific type of exploit where the parasite is abusing the TCP checksum. I suspect the same result is likely to hold with attempts to exploit other protocols. Obviously, if an attacker owns your machine, that's a completely different kettle of fish. I see no reason to believe that it requires a hell of a lot more effort to prepare the message than it would to perform the calculation yourself. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Right, and I suspect I have a fair idea which is which. If you can get a remote host to execute arbitrary code, with loops and branches, or to evaluate complicated functions, then it may be worth your while to do it. If all you can do is get it to add up a list of numbers, then it's almost certainly going to be easier to just do the addition yourself. If there's also a bunch of extra effort required to turn an abstract problem into a series of addition problems, the advantage of solving the problem yourself (without this intermediate step) is even greater. George --Tim May
Re: Moral Crypto
On 2 Sep 2001, at 3:40, Nomen Nescio wrote: The fact that a given person is using the remailer network is not a secret. At least one remailer finds out every time he sends a message. The point is, the entry from the non-anonymous to the anonymous world is a vulnerability. Sort of. The first remailer in the chain will see something like an IP address. This might or might not be enough to identify the indvidual using it in principle (gee, it's somebody posting from a public library or internet cafe) and almost certainly isn't in practice (how many remaler operators bother keeping something like a reverse DNS table on their servers). If the remailer operators decided they wanted to deny baddies use of their services, they would not only have to unanimously agree as to who the baddies are, they would also have to deny their services in all cases where the client cannot be positovely identified. Neither of which strikes me as being plausible. -- blinding. (Hint: That Alice deposits money into a digital bank, and is identified by the bank, does not mean the bank knows who received digital money from Alice, because Alice unblinds the note before spending it--or redeeming it.) No, but the fact that Alice transfered a certain amount of funds into the anonymous bank is visible to at least some observers. Once again, the point is that as you enter the anonymous world your entry is visible. In the old style numbered swiss bank account, you give them a suitcase full of cash and you get an account number. They know who you are if the recognize you when you go in to set up the account, if not not. Compare this with the original claim: in a properly designed anonymity system the users will be, well, anonymous, and it should be impossible to tell any more about them than that they pay their bills on time. These examples illustrate the falsehood of this claim. Much more is learned about the customers as they enter the anonymous system. I stand by my earlier statement. The fact that you may be identifiable at the point of entry to an anonymity system is a weakness, not a desired feature, and if it can be avoided, it should be. George
Re: Moral Crypto
On Sunday, September 2, 2001, at 12:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If the remailer operators decided they wanted to deny baddies use of their services, they would not only have to unanimously agree as to who the baddies are, they would also have to deny their services in all cases where the client cannot be positovely identified. Neither of which strikes me as being plausible. If there are many remailers, essentially zero chance. (Or if one is a remailer oneself.) The other remailers can theoretically band together as some kind of guild and reject packets from rogue remailers, but there are numerous practical problems. Identifying a rogue remailer which allows packets from baddies (e.g, from Mormons, or free speech advocates) will not be easy: the guild of do-gooders will only known a rogue packet has entered their system if they _trace_ it! Nearly all baddie packets exiting the system (Down with Barney the Dinosaur! and similar evil things) will only be detected--drum roll--when they _exit_ the system. Fat chance that N remailers around the world will proactively trace packets just so they can burn the Barney critic baddie. I stand by my earlier statement. The fact that you may be identifiable at the point of entry to an anonymity system is a weakness, not a desired feature, and if it can be avoided, it should be. Then design such a system. Anyone a remailer, anyone a mint is one strong approach. --Tim May
Re: cryptosocialismo
Quoting John Young ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Choate wrote: crypto-anarcy anarcho-socialism crypto-capitalism [snip] True leaders, a contradictory oxymoron, never preen, are never courageous, never perform exceptional actions, would never call attention to themselves so ineptly, and do not exhibit exhibitionistic characteristics such as lecturing and preaching to obsequious non-followers how to follow obediently without orders being issued. That is what oral history and religious documents are for. What a beautiful arrangement when followers can be counted on to pull with the team without non-leaders having the tedious task of preaching orders directly to the chosen. [snip] Old Time Anarchy was invented by authoritarians to entrap firebrand fools. Not much has changed. Old fools hustling the youngsters. But just as shit flows downhill, so must the youngsters grow old and hustle new youngsters. Ah, all must rejoice at this glorious cycle of life. This is not a confession merely, but a bible quote, or I forget which list this is. Good point. I should check to see what list I have been subscribed to just as a sensible precaution against the omnipresent lurking threat of the man-in-the- middle attack. Regards, Steve -- ``If religion were nothing but an illusion and a sham, there could be no philosophy of it. The study of it would belong to abnormal psychology Religion cannot afford to claim exemption from philosophical enquiry. If it attempts to do so on the grounds of sanctity, it can only draw upon itself suspicion that it is afraid to face the music.'' -- H. J. Paton, The Modern Predicament
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Re: Moral Crypto
At 12:34 PM 9/2/01 -0700, Tim May wrote: Someone else: The fact that you may be identifiable at the point of entry to an anonymity system is a weakness, not a desired feature, and if it can be avoided, it should be. Then design such a system. You did a few lines earlier: (Or if one is a remailer oneself.) If the next generation of OS, browser, Morpheus, etc. came with a remailer that was on by default, then even running a remailer would be too common to draw attention (prosecute). And given that Joe Sixpack's node regularly relays MSMixmaster messages, the *occasional* message injected by Joe will be nearly invisible. Heavy use might be detectable depending on how obvious the relayed messages are. Anyone a remailer, anyone a mint is one strong approach. Very strong. In the case of a remailer, necessary. I suppose the spam potential, of everyone an SMTP forwarder, is problem? Surmountable. Deployment, sending-ease-of-use are the real problems.
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Single-Number Plan Raises Privacy Fears
September 2, 2001 Single-Number Plan Raises Privacy Fears Technology: System would link telephones, faxes and Web addresses while creating giant databases. By JUBE SHIVER Jr., Times Staff Writer WASHINGTON -- A controversial technology under development by the communications industry that links Internet addresses with phone numbers has quietly picked up key government support as concern mounts among critics that the technology will broadly undermine privacy. The technology, known as e-number, or ENUM, would link phone numbers to codes that computer servers use to route traffic on the Web. Proponents say the technology would improve communication for consumers and marketers alike. The industry envisions a sophisticated electronic address book that would be able to direct messages to virtually any fax machine, computer or telephone, using a new 11-digit e-number. As a result, a fax could be sent to someone who lacked a fax machine but had an e-mail address. Likewise, cell phone users would only have to key in 11-digits to send e-mail, not a cumbersome alphanumeric address. But privacy advocates fear the system could undermine online privacy and erode the security of the public phone system as well. They worry that the system would destroy a pillar of Internet privacy: the assumption by users that they enjoy anonymity in cyberspace. The government's endorsement of the technology, disclosed in interviews and outlined in an Aug. 21 letter distributed to an industry group, is seen as critical in pushing it forward. The United States does see merit in pursing discussions regarding implementation of a coordinated, global [system] . . . for ENUM, Julian E. Minard, a State Department advisor to the International Telecommunication Advisory Committee, wrote to representatives of ATT and other companies. But Minard cautioned in the letter that aspects of the technology advocated by industry go beyond what is prudent or necessary. ENUM is likely to be voluntary, requiring users to sign up for the service. But privacy experts say it will not be worth the time and investment the industry is making in the technology unless it is widely used. So they expect ENUM will be aggressively promoted. We believe that ENUM raises serious questions about privacy and security that need to be addressed before it's widely deployed, said Alan Davidson, associate director of the Center for Democracy and Technology, a privacy watchdog group based in Washington. They are promoting this as a system that is going to make it really easy for people to find you in all kinds of ways. Well, we want to make sure that consumers can opt out if they don't want to be found. Today, vigilant Web surfers can maintain a high degree of anonymity because e-mail and other Web addresses contain little personal information. What's more, Web addresses under aliases can easily be created to cloak the identity of the sender. As a result, marketers have been forced to spend millions of dollars to get Web surfers to voluntarily give up personal information. By contrast, a phone number has a wealth of personal information associated with it, including a street address, billing records and dialing data. Marrying such information to Web addresses would represent a leap in private data warehousing in cyberspace and dramatically increase the risk of privacy invasions, experts say. Someone could write a program to query the ENUM database and obtain every line of your contact information and send spam to every communications device you own, said Chris Hoofnagle, legislative director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center in
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RE: Wuss-ninnies object to discussions on the list
Heck, I was at Burning Man and just got back. Tim wrote: Then we had Sandy Sandfort weighing in with his comment that some Cypherpunks are going to be in deep trouble with The Man. I think Sandy even forecast my death in a shootout. Well, I was dead-bang right-on about Jim Bell, wasn't I? Perhaps Tim is confusing advocacy with prediction. I don't advocate the shooting of Tim May, but I think there is a substantial chance (10-20%?), that it will happen. I wouldn't want to risk those odds, but TMMV. S a n d y
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