Re: Red Herring: Terrorism and the challenge to globalization.

[Nomen Nescio]

> [Another glimmer of hope as even some of the mainstream business press is
> venturing beyond simple patriotic flag waving.  Posted in its entirety
> as its not online.]
>
> Terrorism and the challenge to globalization.
> BY PETER SCHWARTZ

Stupid article, and your comment doesn't make much sense either.

First, the terrorist attacks are the best thing that has ever happened
for globalization.  No one is a purer anti-globalist than bin Laden.
Now the anti-global movement is associated with death and terror.
Anti-globalization protests have been scaled back and cancelled all
around the world since September 11.  To the extent that radical Islam
is the new standard bearer for anti-globalism, the movement is doomed.
Contrary to the predictions of this article, the only hope for the
anti-globalists is to disassociate themselves as fast as possible from
Islamic terrorism.  That's going to be tough, given the images that are
burned forever into people's minds.

Second, we can update Gordon Gecko's line from Wall Street.  Instead of
"greed is good," now "globalism is good".  Globalism is a matter of
free association and free choice for billions of people.  It represents
market capitalism at its best, with each country providing those goods and
services at which it has a comparative advantage.  Globalism is freedom.

Third, cypherpunk technologies will promote globalism.  To the extent that
the future is cast as a battle between global capitalism and democracy,
technology is on the side of capitalism.  Democracy is an inherently
coercive institution.  It relies on physical force to achieve its goals.
Capitalism is non-coercive.  It is cooperative.  It invites, it does not
compel.  Cypherpunk technologies enhance the opportunities to interact
in cooperative ways, free of external coercion.  If they can't see what
you do, they can't control what you do.  Cypherpunks are supporting
globalism by their actions, whether they understand that or not.

Re: The killing of Bill Cooper and Liquid Metal Embrittlement

[tcmay]

On Wednesday, November 14, 2001, at 05:43 PM, Eric Murray wrote:

> OTOH, LME requires the metals to be liquid or close to it.  Even tin
> has a melting point around 500 degrees F, and it's a pretty
> low melting point metal.
> Engine mounting parts might get that hot, but not the exterior surface.

No, liquid metal embrittlement does not require that aluminum, for 
example, be nearly in a liquid state. The mercury amalgam that forms can 
even form at cryogenic temperatures, not to mention at normal ambient 
temperatures.

> There's probably other methods of causing quick corrosion of
> failure besides LME... what I googled about it makes me not worry
> about it as something sprayed on the exterior of aircraft to
> cause sabotage.
>
Google is great, but beware of getting your basic science just from some 
items you find.

Fontana and Greene is a good text on corrosion, and there are even some 
pretty good online descriptions of LME in connection with mercury on 
aluminum.


--Tim May

Red Herring: Terrorism and the challenge to globalization.

[mean-green]

[Another glimmer of hope as even some of the mainstream business press is venturing 
beyond simple patriotic flag waving.  Posted in its entirety as its not online.]

Terrorism and the challenge to globalization.

BY PETER SCHWARTZ

THE CATASTROPHIC, evil attacks on the United States are the result of deep grievances 
held by violent factions of radical Islamic movements. But within hours of the World 
Trade Center's collapse, many voices that have been raised in opposition to 
globalization were arguing that the attacks were the result of the American drive for 
global political and economic hegemony. Is there really a connection here? The 
question is not whether there is some grand conspiracy. Rather, the question is 
whether the events of September ii are part of the same story as the challenge to 
globalization. If so, what does it portend?

There are several good arguments that the answer is yes, there is a bigger story that 
ties together fanatic Islamists and World Trade Organization protesters. Both are 
challenging American power, and both are opposed to American global dominance of 
culture, economics, and politics. But there are different interpretations of the 
opposition to globalization.

The globalization debate is really about the power of global corporations, argues Paul 
Hawken, cofounder of gardening retailer Smith & Hawken, and an active participant in 
Seattle's antiWTO demonstrations. In his forthcoming book, Uprising, he 
suggests that a loose network of worldwide organizations is attempting to limit global 
entities' power to dominate, exploit, and sometimes corrupt societies. These network 
groups are not opposed to trade, private enterprise, or modernization; they just want 
these pursuits on terms that recognize certain values. They are repelled by violence. 
Still, they believe global companies hurt, more than help, people, and that poverty 
and corporate tyranny fertilize the soil from which fanaticism grows.

Kevin Kelly, the former executive editor of Wired magazine and the author of Out of 
Control: The New Biology of A4acleines,Social Systems and the Economic World (Perseus, 
i995),suggests that radical Islam could come to play a role similar to that of 
Communism. The Communist movement around the world served to organize opposition to 
Western capitalism and give hope to the oppressed, however misplaced. Today in the 
Islamic world, America is seen as the source of poverty and powerlessness, while 
radical Islam is seen as the strongest opponent of American power, and the source of 
an alternative vision of better life. For American citizens, the violent extreme of 
radical Islam has become, like Communism before it, the nightmare that organizes our 
darkest fears.

The United States calls itself the land of freedom and democracy, but, argues Benjamin 
Barber, author of Jihad vs. McWorld: How Globalism and Tribalism are Reshaping the 
World (Ballantine Books, t996), it supports an often oppressive and undemocratic 
international order. Institutions like the International Monetary Fund, the World 
Bank, and the WTO all function behind closed doors, where the United States and its 
brethren control the world economy. America has opposed efforts to increase 
transparency of the system and broaden participation in it. The U.S. government has 
opposed several new treaties covering issues like global climate change, war crimes, 
and even biological weapons. Many who challenge American power see the country as 
reserving democracy and freedom for itself.

If these interpretations of political reality are valid, we can glimpse where the 
geopolitical future may be headed. If radical Islam is the new Communism, we may be in 
for a long and ugly war. This scenario involves a world of perpetual conflict with no 
winners. As atrocities on both sides feed on each other, the dividing lines become 
deeper and wider in an ever moreterrible cycle of violence.

If Mr. Hawken and Mr. Barber are right, there are at least two possibilities. In the 
best of all possible worlds, democratic governance would begin to emerge globally. 
Existing institutions would become more transparent and democratic. New institutions 
would be created to better regulate common elements like the air and the oceans, and 
to establish appropriate global rules of behavior for corporations.

But one has no trouble imagining another scenario, in which the United States refuses 
to surrender any sovereignty and acts unilaterally in its own interests. In such a 
rogue superpower scenario, the reception for U.S. companies around the world will 
become chilly indeed, as the world lines up to resist American hegemony. Sympathy for 
any new horrors inflicted upon the United States will be very limited, and cheers will 
be heard in Paris and Rome, as well as in the back streets of Gaza and Karachi.

PETER ScHwaarz, chairman of the Global Business Network, is also a partner at the 
venture capital firm Alta Partners. Previo

Secret congressional briefing on terrorism tomorrow

[Declan McCullagh]

>Special Orders
>Off the Floor:
>Members-Only, Classified Briefing on the War on Terrorism.

---

Anticipated Floor Schedule:
The House will meet at 10:00 a.m. for legislative business.
Last Vote Expected: 3-4:00 p.m.
One Minutes
H.R. 2269-Retirement Security Advice Act of 2001
(Modified Closed Rule, One hour and forty minutes of debate)
Rolled Suspension votes (3 bills):
1) H.Con.Res. 228-Expressing the sense of the Congress that the children 
who lost one or both parents or a guardian in the September 11, 2001, World 
Trade Center and Pentagon tragedies (including the aircraft crash in 
Somerset County, Pennsylvania) should be provided with all necessary 
assistance (As Amended).
2)  H.R. 2887-Best Pharmaceuticals for Children Act.
3)  H.Con.Res. 239-Expressing the sense of Congress that schools in the 
United States should set aside a sufficient period of time to allow 
children to pray for, or quietly reflect on behalf of, the Nation during 
this time of struggle against the forces of international terrorism.
Motion to go to Conference (1 bill):
1)  S. 180-Sudan Peace Act
Special Orders
Off the Floor:
Members-Only, Classified Briefing on the War on Terrorism.
3:30-4:30 p.m., HC-5, The Capitol. Briefing will be with Administration 
officials.
Friday's Forecast:
The House will meet at 9:00 a.m. for legislative business.
Last vote expected: ??
H.R. 3009 - Andean Trade Promotion and Drug Eradication Act
(Subject to a Rule)
The House may also consider any conference reports as they become available.
Saturday's Forecast:
The House will meet at 9:00 a.m. for legislative business.
Last vote expected: ??
H.R. ___ - Department of Defense Appropriations for Fiscal 2002 (Subject to 
a Rule)
The House may also consider any conference reports as they become available.

Re: kuro5hin.org || U.S. House Votes on Bills They Don't Read

[Declan McCullagh]

And this is a surprise?

I like the story a few years back about how a Hill staffer got a dog
run installed (cost about $100,000) in the park by his Capitol Hill
apartment, just because he could do it.

-Declan


On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 05:16:02PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> http://www.Kuro5hin.org/story/2001/11/14/0327/2510
> 
> -- 
> 
>  --
> 
> 
>  Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.
> 
>  Bumper Sticker
> 
>The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
>Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
>-~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> 

Networks and Netwars: The Future of Terror, Crime, and Militancy

[Matthew Gaylor]

News from RAND
Contact: John Warren
RAND
Tel: 310-393-0411, ext. 6293
Fax: 310-451-6996
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.rand.org

RAND
1700 Main Street
P.O. Box 2138
Santa Monica, CA 90407-2138

1200 South Hayes Street
Arlington VA 22202-5050
703-413-1100


The Growing Power of Networks

The tragic events of September 11th made brutally clear that the 
fight for the future is not between the armies of leading states, nor 
are its weapons those of conventional armed forces. Rather, today's 
combatants come from terrorist groups like Osama bin Laden's 
al-Qaeda, or drug smuggling cartels like those ravaging Colombia and 
Mexico. On the positive side are non-violent, civil-society activists 
fighting for the environment, democracy and human rights. What all 
have in common is that they operate in small, dispersed units that 
can deploy nimbly-anywhere, anytime. They know how to penetrate and 
disrupt, as well as elude and evade. They all feature network forms 
of organization, doctrine, strategy, and technology attuned to the 
information age. And, from al-Qaeda to the Intifadah to the drug war, 
they are proving very hard to beat...



Networks and Netwars: The Future of Terror, Crime, and Militancy, by 
John Arquilla and David F. Ronfeldt, Editors, (RAND, 2001) examines 
this new spectrum of conflict emerging in the wake of the information 
revolution. Netwar includes conflicts waged, on the one hand, by 
terrorists, criminals, gangs, and ethnic extremists; and by 
civil-society activists (such as cyber activists or WTO protestors) 
on the other. What distinguishes netwar is the networked 
organizational structure of its practitioners-with many groups 
actually being leaderless-and their quickness in coming together in 
swarming attacks.

Completed shortly before terrorists attacked New York and Washington, 
the volume includes an Afterword analyzing the Attack on America. The 
events of September 11, 2001, tragically reinforced Arquilla and 
Ronfeldt's conclusion that in order to confront this new type of 
conflict, it is crucial for governments, military, and law 
enforcement to begin networking themselves.

"Just as a half century ago, researchers at RAND sought to understand 
the profound changes in strategy brought about by nuclear weapons and 
intercontinental ballistic missiles," says Brian Michael Jenkins, one 
of the world's foremost experts on terrorism and crime, "Arquilla and 
Ronfeldt explore the strategic implications of new information 
technologies in the latest installment of their seminal work... 
Networks and Netwars obliges us to think in new ways."

In Networks and Netwars, the editors and their colleagues examine the 
major instances of netwar that have occurred over the past several 
years-from Osama bin Laden's networked terrorists to the Battle of 
Seattle's social activists-and find, among other things, that netwars 
have generally been successful from the protagonists' perspective.

The authors also find that, despite their diversity, all networks 
built for waging netwar may be analyzed in terms of a common analytic 
framework. There are five critical levels of theory and practice: the 
technological, social, narrative, organizational, and doctrinal 
levels. A netwar actor must get all five right to be fully effective. 
The most potent netwarriors will not only be highly networked and 
have the capacity for mounting "swarming" attacks, they will also be 
held together by strong social ties, have secure communications 
technologies, and project a common "story" about why they are 
together and what they need to do. Like Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda, 
these are the most serious adversaries. But even those networks that 
are weak on some levels may pose stiff challenges to their 
nation-state adversaries.

With this in mind, it is necessary to go beyond simply diagnosing the 
nature of the networked nonstate opponent in a given conflict. "A 
particular challenge for the cumbersome American bureaucracy will be 
to encourage deep, all-channel networking among the military, law 
enforcement, and intelligence elements whose collaboration is crucial 
for achieving success," Arquilla and Ronfeldt explain in the 
Afterword. "U.S. agencies have been headed in this direction for 
years-in the areas of counter-narcotics as well as 
counterterrorism-but interagency rivalries and distrust have too 
often slowed progress."

Writers who focus on the technological aspects of netwar often miss 
the point. As the editors point out, "At its heart, Netwar is far 
more about organization and doctrine than it is about technology. The 
outcomes of current and future netwars are bound to confirm this."

Nathan Gardels, editor of New Perspectives Quarterly, and author of 
The Changing Global Order, says "Arquilla and Ronfeldt are a rare 
breed: strategic thinkers of the information age. In Networks and 
Netwars they grasp an emerging reality still lost on tho

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Re: The killing of Bill Cooper and Liquid Metal Embrittlement

[Eric Murray]

On Wed, Nov 14, 2001 at 05:49:34PM -0800, John Young wrote:
> How would the LME work on the interior structure of the plane?
> The skin has little structural strength but does streamline the

On modern cars and aircraft the skin is a structural part.  There was
a post WWII DeHaviland (the Comet I beleive) that kept coming apart in
the air... some of the windows had too-sharp corners that concentrated
stress from pressurization and caused cracks in the skin, eventually
resulting in sudden failure.  Once aluminum gets a crack it
goes pretty fast.

OTOH, LME requires the metals to be liquid or close to it.  Even tin
has a melting point around 500 degrees F, and it's a pretty
low melting point metal.
Engine mounting parts might get that hot, but not the exterior surface.

There's probably other methods of causing quick corrosion of
failure besides LME... what I googled about it makes me not worry
about it as something sprayed on the exterior of aircraft to
cause sabotage.

Eric

Re: Monkeywrenching

[Anonymous]

>Second, training in such matters would be useless and counterproductive.
>There is no point in patriotic Americans learning to use weapons and
>explosives for the purpose of terrorism.  Any attempt to use such tools
>would injure or kill people and lead to an even greater loss of our

Fuck you, pig.

The purpose of guns is to kill and hurt. People don't like getting killed and hurt. 
That's why guns work. As you know very well.

Be careful. There are 40 million armed non-pigs on the continent. Look at the fate of 
Stasi members. 

I knew that there was a reason for not shutting down remailers. How else could TLAs 
post without being JBelled ? 

Monkeywrenching

[mattd]

"A good example of monkeywrenching can be found at the article posted 
earlier, http://www.keepandbeararms.com/angel/articles/consterrorist.htm. 
This shows an apparently legitimate flyer from the "Phoenix FBI Joint 
Terrorism Task Force" telling people whom they should watch out for. It 
includes people who "make numerous references to the US constitution", 
people who are "'defenders' of the US constitution against federal 
government and the UN", people who attempt to "police the police" and so on."


Who reads these days? Comics are the go,if you cant mangarize the infamous 
cia manual comic from nica,just print it off as is.Future generations will 
thank you and the poetic justice aspect of it is exquiste,almost worth 
being tortured and executed for.Dont get caught waxing the 
SUV.kidsand...be careful out there.

kuro5hin.org || Time for representative international government

[Jim Choate]

http://www.Kuro5hin.org/story/2001/11/11/212728/29
-- 

 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

kuro5hin.org || Military Trials for Terrorists

[Jim Choate]

http://www.Kuro5hin.org/story/2001/11/14/83952/307
-- 

 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

kuro5hin.org || U.S. House Votes on Bills They Don't Read

[Jim Choate]

http://www.Kuro5hin.org/story/2001/11/14/0327/2510

-- 

 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

Slashdot | (Mostly) Confirmed: New Mersenne Prime Found

[Jim Choate]

http://slashdot.org/science/01/11/14/1849203.shtml
-- 

 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

Senseboard Technologies AB (Coool!!!)

[Jim Choate]

http://www.senseboard.com/products.htm
-- 

 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

RE: The killing of Bill Cooper and Liquid Metal Embrittlement

[John Young]

How would the LME work on the interior structure of the plane?
The skin has little structural strength but does streamline the
structure and I suppose if it was weakened to peel away,
turbulence could shear structural bolts or welds. The tail section
of 587 appeared to be cleanly detached from the fuselage and
not obviously torn.

Vibration of the tail could have loosened or fractured bolts or welds
sufficiently to break away under the forces of take-off and/or
turbulence from the preceding 747.

Still, if the tail was subject to vibration that would have made its
attachments a likely assembly to check frequently.

Several recent FAA airworthiness directives for the A300 listed 
problems needing attention but nothing on the tail assembly.
Which doesn't mean squat necessarily, since expected accidents 
usually don't happen.

However, because tails seldom come loose, I understand, if an
attacker wanted to do the unexpected on a part little suspected
of failure, the tail connection would be a good target. One pilot
was quoted as saying no better failure could have been 
arranged to assure disaster. That is, loss of tail is not in featured
the emergency recovery manual -- at least in civilian aircraft.
I believe loss of tail is included in military emergency planning
due to their being good vertical targets for missiles, shells and
shrapnel. Some military tails are oversized for the plane to
survive loss of a good portion of the tail (although not likely
for entire tail loss except for two-tailed craft).

secure editors? (fwd)

[Jim Choate]

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:44:43 -0500
From: Mordechai Ovits <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: secure editors?

On http://www.vim.org/answ.html it mentions some "secure editors" made 
available by "Freedman, Sharp & Associates."  The link is dead, and I can't 
seem to find FSA anywhere.  Anyone have an archive of it?

Otherwise, does anyone know of a secure non-escapable editor?

Mordy
-- 
Mordy OvitsBad Password:
Network Securitynds09813-050
Bloomberg L.P.

RE: The killing of Bill Cooper and Liquid Metal Embrittlement

[Blanc]

Said Tim May:

:-- ZOG lovers like Dershowitz are calling for torturing suspects until
:they confess
:
:(One of our fun ideas in the Sierras was that someone should kidnap
:Dershowitz, torture him for 5 days, release the tape of his various
:"confessions," and then dump his body in front of the Supreme Court.)
:
:Fuck America. Fuck it dead.



Yikes.  If only you were fundamentalist, the package would be complete and
ready to go.

Between all the criminals vs crime-stoppers in the world, not to mention all
the acronyms used to identify them, I'm getting confused as to who is what
and who to run from.

Jamesd, can you straighten this out?

  ..
Blanc

Monkeywrenching

[Nomen Nescio]

Tim May writes:
> Several of us were in the Sierras this past weekend for a training 
> session on weapons use, explosives, terrorism measures, and methods for 
> monkeywrenching the U.S. government so as to paralyze its police state 
> moves.

First, this is probably not true.  Tim May often uses hyperbole,
exaggeration and satire to make his points.  There may or may not have
been a gathering but it is unlikely to have been for the purpose of
learning how to be a terrorist.

Second, training in such matters would be useless and counterproductive.
There is no point in patriotic Americans learning to use weapons and
explosives for the purpose of terrorism.  Any attempt to use such tools
would injure or kill people and lead to an even greater loss of our
remaining civil libertires.  It would weaken the position of those who
are fighting to preserve our rights, bring more military occupation of
American cities, and produce more government surveillance.

Third, "monkeywrenching" may actually be a positive strategy, if employed
intelligently.  The idea would be to make the government occupation more
expensive and difficult, and to promote public distrust and resentment of
the government's efforts to expand its control.  It is however important
that the provocation doesn't go too far and trigger a public relations
backlash.  Small steps must be taken at this point while people still
overwhelmingly support government actions.

Of course subtlety is not exactly a Tim May trademark.  (At least, not
the bloodthirsty blowhard of today.  Where is the man who came up with
the idea of Big Brother Inside stickers?).  Let us hope that cooler
heads are involved in the planning of any such effort.

An earlier version of this message was sent but has not yet appeared.
Here are some additional thoughts.

A good example of monkeywrenching can be found at the article posted
earlier, http://www.keepandbeararms.com/angel/articles/consterrorist.htm.
This shows an apparently legitimate flyer from the "Phoenix FBI Joint
Terrorism Task Force" telling people whom they should watch out for.
It includes people who "make numerous references to the US constitution",
people who are "'defenders' of the US constitution against federal
government and the UN", people who attempt to "police the police" and
so on.

These will already raise red flags even among mainstream Americans.
How easy it would be to make an altered version of this flyer which
shades just a bit more into questionable territory.  People who object
to surveillance by the government; people who oppose stationing soldiers
in public places; people who refuse to pledge allegiance to the flag;
people who won't show their identity papers on request; there are all
kinds of dangerous individuals out there.  The slope is slippery, and
it would be easy to slide just a little ways farther down.

Printing copies of such a flyer and leaving them in public places would
be a good way to get people thinking about how much they are giving up.
It might even be possible to get a know-nothing police officer to join
in the distribution, someone whose authoritarian political perspective
will make him blind to the satire.

The killing of Bill Cooper and Liquid Metal Embrittlement

[Tim May]

Some of us were talking at our camp in the Sierras last weekend about 
the efforts to silence William Cooper, culminating in his death in a 
shootout with LEOs dressed as street punks. One of Bill's early 
interests, after his retirement from the armed services, was in how 
"Liquid Metal Embrittlement" (LME) compounds had been developed to 
weaken aircraft structures as a means of sabotage. LME works by 
weakening aluminum, notably, along grain lines.

An LME solution smeared along wing or panel sections could cause 
catastrophic failure during high stress flight phases, e.g., takeoffs 
and, to a lesser extent, landings. We ran a few scenarios about how easy 
it would be bring down an airliner, further spreading fear.

So what happened on Monday morning? From the reports I'm reading, it 
looks like the tail section broke off shortly after takeoff, during 
relatively high-g banking manouvers. CNN is saying this is an 
"unprecedented" failure mechanism for the A300.

Bill Cooper may well have been terminated with extreme prejudice, as the 
saying goes, because he was getting too close to the truth about the NWO 
and ZOG using such US-developed sabotage weapons to further the 
expansion of the terror state.

The U.S. has pressured the major U.S. news outlets not to show Bin 
Laden's tapes...now we are hearing from _transcripts_ that Bin Laden has 
"come close" to taking credit for 911...but it would help to actually 
_see_ the tapes. Ah, but that would not be consistent with the New World 
Order approach to justice:

* strong arm the press into not showing video tapes, except of the NWO 
side

* suspend habeus corpus, hold 1000 detainees indefinitely (9 weeks and 
counting...)

-- secret trials, secret evidence, secret witnesses...so much for the 
open courts, confrontation of witnesses, jury of peers, due process

-- bugging of attorney-client communications (would not surprise me that 
other secret orders require attorneys to implicate their clients, even 
with manufactured evidence)

-- ZOG lovers like Dershowitz are calling for torturing suspects until 
they confess

(One of our fun ideas in the Sierras was that someone should kidnap 
Dershowitz, torture him for 5 days, release the tape of his various 
"confessions," and then dump his body in front of the Supreme Court.)

Fuck America. Fuck it dead.

--Tim May
"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third 
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're 
around." --attribution uncertain, possibly Gunner, on Usenet

The Recognized Name in Data Security

[Eric Cordian]

Here's an exerpt from a little story in Wired News this morning about
secure data centers.

I don't know about you, but having my data guarded by "Osama Arafat" would
make me feel all safe, warm, and cozy.

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,48104,00.html

...

   Q9, a data center in Toronto, uses both proximity cards and
   fingerprint scanners to access the computer room, which is entered
   through a bullet-proof revolving door that allows only one person
   through at a time.

   "The whole idea is that someone can't force another person to let them
   in," said Q9 CEO Osama Arafat. "It's just part of the due diligence
   that people demand."

...

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

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Re: "Rigorous and objective"

[jamesd]

--
On 14 Nov 2001, at 0:52, Petro wrote:
> So did you discuss what was going to be done *after* the 
> current government is destroyed? What sort of government 
> will follow?

 Preferably none whatsoever.

>   Or was this just an exercise in later day 
>   bakuninism?

Bakunin was a moderate, who sometimes advocated a 
conventional socialist government, though he changed his mind 
when he started to imagine a socialist government run by Marx 
or his fellow Marxists.

> You can't just strike off a slaves chains and say "You're 
> Free", that slave has to understand how to deal with 
> freedom, he has to have the skills and thought processes to 
> live without his "master" taking care of him. The vast 
> majority of the people in this country lack one or more of 
> skills and thought processes to live w/out an effective   
> government.

When the slaves were freed in the civil war, their death rate
went up to extremely high levels, and the death rate among
their descendants still has not fallen to normal levels.
Despite that we did not see any of them call for a return to
the old system.  

--digsig
 James A. Donald
 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
 9kwrQutH0kRTaB8Rj+zkWHeDBKQktQ2gA4Xj21kl
 4evNogxciSix8raejhW3yU6SKuHfoLpiySVDX9sdc

Re: CDR: [consim-l] Navajo Code Talkers (fwd)

[cpaul]

deciphered in two easy steps... should have been one step tho.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq61-2.htm



On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:41:43 -0600 (CST) Jim Choate wrote:


> -- Forwarded message --
> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:11:42 -0500
> From: Allan Rothberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Consim -L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [consim-l] Navajo Code Talkers
> 
> All,
>  I tripped over this URL in today's local paper. It is a dictionary of
> the code:
> www.history.navy.mil/afqs/fa61-2.htm
>Allan
> 
> 

The Register - Do-it-yourself Internet anonymity

[Jim Choate]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/22831.html
-- 

 --


 Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind.

 Bumper Sticker

   The Armadillo Group   ,::;::-.  James Choate
   Austin, Tx   /:'/ ``::>/|/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   www.ssz.com.',  `/( e\  512-451-7087
   -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-

ignore

[Anonymous User]

alpha

Public Servants Going After "Constitutional Terrorists"?

[Julian Morrison]

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/angel/articles/consterrorist.htm

[consim-l] Navajo Code Talkers (fwd)

[Jim Choate]

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:11:42 -0500
From: Allan Rothberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Consim -L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [consim-l] Navajo Code Talkers

All,
 I tripped over this URL in today's local paper. It is a dictionary of
the code:
www.history.navy.mil/afqs/fa61-2.htm
   Allan

Re: Sedition

[Duncan Frissell]

At 05:13 PM 11/13/01 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>On Tue, Nov 13, 2001 at 02:20:28PM -0500, Faustine wrote:
> > It sure is. That's why I think (and have always openly said, here and
> > everywhere) we need more pro-freedom policy analysts in Washington.
>
>Of course, if you're a hardcore libertarian ("abolish all
>unconstitutional federal agencies, and that's most of 'em! let's
>revert back to the firearms laws we had 150 years ago!"), then you
>don't get listened to.
>
>Having more "pro freedom policy analysts" in Washington won't
>accomplish much until other things change too.
>
>-Declan

Anyway, don't we have dozens (hundreds?) of pro-freedom policy analysts in 
DC.  Between CATO and all the rest.  Haven't the commies been complaining 
about our massive numbers "funded by the corporations".

DCF

Re: "Rigorous and objective"

[Petro]

On Wednesday, November 14, 2001, at 12:12 AM, Tim May wrote:
> Meanwhile, grey burrowcrats are burrowing into their burrows in D.C., 
> busily writing "rigorous and objective" reports on the benefits of 
> welfare and why gun control is cost-effective. Feh. I hope to see the 
> day when millions of them are gassed.

So did you discuss what was going to be done *after* the current 
government is destroyed? What sort of government will follow?

Or was this just an exercise in later day bakuninism?

I'm not (just) being a smart ass. If the necessary stuff was in 
place (fully anonymous digital currencies, blacknets, Bell's AP system 
etc.) the state would be gradually rendered ineffective, then die on the 
vine over a great enough time that people could adapt, institutions and 
attitudes could adjust.

You can't just strike off a slaves chains and say "You're Free", 
that slave has to understand how to deal with freedom, he has to have 
the skills and thought processes to live without his "master" taking 
care of him. The vast majority of the people in this country lack one or 
more of skills and thought processes to live w/out an effective 
government.

What are you going to do about that? Or is your purpose, like those 
Russian Nihilists, just to smash the state?

--
"Remember, half-measures can be very effective if all you deal with are
half-wits."--Chris Klein

"Rigorous and objective"

[Tim May]

On Tuesday, November 13, 2001, at 11:00 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote:

>
> Faustine says:
>> There's no reason you can't keep your hardcore beliefs to yourself 
>> while
>> doing the most rigorous and objective analysis you can.
>
> This is an attractive, but, alas, naive plan.
>
> So your closeted-libertarian-analyst presents a "rigorous and objective
> analysis" saying raising the minimum wage will put people out of work?
> Your opponents will present someone who argues otherwise. Your analyst
> says that gun control saves lives? Opponents will ring up Handgun 
> Control.
> Your analyst says that his interpretation of the Commerce Clause
> is the correct one? Someone else will cite chapter and verse otherwise.

Besides the above points, a "rigorous and objective analysis" is work 
for bean counters...and is only interesting to other bean counters.

What got the Cypherpunks rolling was not "rigorous and objective 
analysis." Faustine has gradstudentitus. She or he will likely get his 
or her Masters or maybe even Ph.D. and will then vanish into the bowels 
of the Office of Implementational Policy Assessment, commuting to work 
each morning on the Metro, hoping to advance to GS-13 level before age 
40, and generally living a life of quiet desperation. But her or his 
analysis papers will be suitably dry and rigorous...and ignorable.

>
>> Sadly enough, you're probably right.
>> But isn't it about time somebody started trying? I think so.
>
> Again, you're naive. Cato, CEI, IHS, IJ, have tried. Victory is
> not exactly expected anytime soon.
>
> Might as well write code, as someone once said.

Two of our sessions at that Sierra retreat were vastly more useful than 
99% of the CATO and related "dry and rigorous" b.s. papers. One was a 
session on mapping the security holes in Bay Area government 
installations...most gubment sites are trivially accessible from 
wireless connections: sit in the parking lot a few buildings away and 
take down the Evil Empire!

Another interesting late night session was on ways to knock down 
airliners. The obvious approaches, but also a bunch of creative new 
ideas. Not for the faint of heart, of course, as a few pounds of Semtex 
up the butt is not exactly pleasant...but it's damned near undetectable 
by even their multimillion dollar scanners.

The thermite attack on bridge suspension cables also got discussed.  
Sarin, ricin, and India-1967 were covered in another session.

Meanwhile, grey burrowcrats are burrowing into their burrows in D.C., 
busily writing "rigorous and objective" reports on the benefits of 
welfare and why gun control is cost-effective. Feh. I hope to see the 
day when millions of them are gassed.

--Tim May, Citizen-unit of of the once free United States
" The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood 
of patriots & tyrants. "--Thomas Jefferson, 1787