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How To Make Money While Helping People Improve Their Health

[JohnC4682413]

 Discover Wonders... 

 ...from Water!
  

 If you're still searching for a way to supplement 
 your income, you'll want to see this. 


 One of America's top medical researchers has 
 endorsed a product just being introduced in the US. 

 Now You Can Get Involved In A Business With The 
 Following Characteristics:

 1. A unique and outstanding health-producing water 
 product that works right down at the cellular level
 -- enhancing our billions of cells' ability to assimilate 
 nutrients and eliminate wastes!

 2. Backed by a multi-million dollar debt-free company 
 with an excellent track record!

 3. Arriving brand new to the U.S. market!

 The best of all worlds!  

 Do you or any of your loved ones suffer from:

 * Obesity
 * Wrinkles 
 * Gum Disease
 * Toothaches
 * Thinning Hair
 * Baldness
 * Scars
 * PMS
 * Allergies 
 * Liver Spots
 * Insomnia 
 * Gastrointestinal Disorder 
 * Diabetes 
 * Chronic Fatigue 
 * Snoring 
 * Athletes Foot 
 * Eczema 
 * Acne 
 * Emphysema 
 * Anemia 
 * Ulcers 
 * Arthritis 
 * High Blood Pressure 
 * Cataracts
 * The list goes on...


 If so then email me to find out what this water 
 product is doing for people!

 You can also email me with any questions: 

 Many new millionaires will be created! 
 Will YOU be one of them?

 - 8 year old international company already doing 
 $200,000,000 in business.

 - Top reps making $100,000 to $400,000 per month 
 from overseas business alone!  That's not a misprint.

 - A 3 X 10 forced Matrix which means that the avalanche 
 from above will benefit you and your downline directly!

 - Now entering the United States Market for the first time. 
 Talk about a ground-floor opportunity!

 - Flagship product is a proprietary water enhancement product 
 that works to allow your body to heal itself on a cellular level.

 - Proven product with 90% reorder rate!!  There has to be a reason.
 - Minimal outlay to get started with Fast Start bonuses paid weekly.
 - Absolutely tremendous back end compensation
 - You must have a U.S. shipping address to participate

 The company is so confident that people will reorder that 
 NO monthly purchase is required to earn commissions.

 I look forward to hearing from you!

 For the complete details, Email Me!

 Best regards,

 John Corbett




 Send email here to unsubscribe

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RE: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick

[Peter Gutmann]

Curt Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>Certificate Authorities issue certificates complete with CA imposed expiration
>dates and usage limitations. (I prefer independent systems with unrestricted
>certificates)

So issue your own.  Honestly, why would anyone want to *pay* some random CA for
this?

>Certificate Authorities match individuals to keys (Thanks, but no thanks)

And PGP doesn't?  Anyway, X.509 certs can be as anonymous as PGP keys.

>Certificate Authorities can revoke certificates at anytime (CA-driven DOS
>attack)

Most implementations ignore revocation, and in any case it's not an issue if
you issue your own.

Peter.

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How To Make Money While Helping People Improve Their Health

[JohnC48123]

 Discover Wonders... 

 ...from Water!
  

 If you're still searching for a way to supplement 
 your income, you'll want to see this. 


 One of America's top medical researchers has 
 endorsed a product just being introduced in the US. 

 Now You Can Get Involved In A Business With The 
 Following Characteristics:

 1. A unique and outstanding health-producing water 
 product that works right down at the cellular level
 -- enhancing our billions of cells' ability to assimilate 
 nutrients and eliminate wastes!

 2. Backed by a multi-million dollar debt-free company 
 with an excellent track record!

 3. Arriving brand new to the U.S. market!

 The best of all worlds!  

 Do you or any of your loved ones suffer from:

 * Obesity
 * Wrinkles 
 * Gum Disease
 * Toothaches
 * Thinning Hair
 * Baldness
 * Scars
 * PMS
 * Allergies 
 * Liver Spots
 * Insomnia 
 * Gastrointestinal Disorder 
 * Diabetes 
 * Chronic Fatigue 
 * Snoring 
 * Athletes Foot 
 * Eczema 
 * Acne 
 * Emphysema 
 * Anemia 
 * Ulcers 
 * Arthritis 
 * High Blood Pressure 
 * Cataracts
 * The list goes on...


 If so then email me to find out what this water 
 product is doing for people!

 You can also email me with any questions: 

 Many new millionaires will be created! 
 Will YOU be one of them?

 - 8 year old international company already doing 
 $200,000,000 in business.

 - Top reps making $100,000 to $400,000 per month 
 from overseas business alone!  That's not a misprint.

 - A 3 X 10 forced Matrix which means that the avalanche 
 from above will benefit you and your downline directly!

 - Now entering the United States Market for the first time. 
 Talk about a ground-floor opportunity!

 - Flagship product is a proprietary water enhancement product 
 that works to allow your body to heal itself on a cellular level.

 - Proven product with 90% reorder rate!!  There has to be a reason.
 - Minimal outlay to get started with Fast Start bonuses paid weekly.
 - Absolutely tremendous back end compensation
 - You must have a U.S. shipping address to participate

 The company is so confident that people will reorder that 
 NO monthly purchase is required to earn commissions.

 I look forward to hearing from you!

 For the complete details, Email Me!

 Best regards,

 John Corbett




 Send email here to unsubscribe

Re: why OpenPGP is preferable to S/MIME (Re: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick)

[Meyer Wolfsheim]

On Thu, 23 May 2002, Adam Back wrote:

> On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 03:05:49PM -0400, Adam Shostack wrote:
> > So what if we create the Cypherpunks Root CA, which (either) signs
> > what you submit to it via a web page, or publish the secret key?
>
> This won't achieve the desired effect because it will just destroy the
> S/MIME trust mechanism.  S/MIME is based on the assumption that all
> CAs are trustworthy.

Which is, of course, a major flaw.

S/MIME is of some value for internal corporate email for companies who can
run their own CA. (The sort of people who used to be Xcert's customers.)

S/MIME is of very little value outside of a closed intranet environment,
for the simple reason that public CAs are mostly incompetent,
untrustworthy, or both.


-MW-

Re: Joe Sixpack doesn't run Linux

[Meyer Wolfsheim]

On Thu, 23 May 2002, Curt Smith wrote:

> This is a fairly accurate description of the situation, but
> neglects to emphasize that the reason [1-cypherpunk] bothers
> convincing [2-coerced associate] to use encrypted e-mail is
> because [1] understands its importance and is attempting to
> share/spread that understanding.

Yes, [1] understands its importance. I think you overestimate the amount
of effort put forth by [1] to "spread the Word", though. While
evangelizing strong crypto might be second-nature to a cypherpunk, the
other members of [1] are standards-setters because they must be. They
require [2] to use strong crypto, because it is their asses if they don't.
They don't care, and don't need to care, if [2] understands the value of
strong crypto, as long as [2] uses it in communication with [1].

> Although [3-Joe Sixpack] may not understand or appreciate
> encryption, [3]'s support is helpful to protect [1]'s
> cryptography rights.  Furthermore once [3] has crypto, [3] will
> resist attempts to take it away (along with his six pack,
> etc.).

With this, I fully agree. The challenge is to design a system that
satisfies the security requirements for [1]'s threat model and the
usability requirements for [3]'s attention span. It has yet to be done.
All attempts thus far have been lucky if they only fail at one of those
two goals. Most fail at both.


-MW-

Future of commercial PGP? [was NAI gets out the DMCA stick]

[stoat2k]

As mentioned by others, NAI currently seems bent on discouraging proliferation of 
existing PGP desktop packages.  Part of this seeming strategy includes a refusal to 
sell any further licenses for commercial PGP 7.X.

Strangely, the June 2002 PC Magazine (at least where I live) includes a CDROM 
containing "McAfee PGP 6.5.8".  The CDROM pop-up says the software is "worth $XX", so 
I assume this is the commercial version or some variant thereof.  (I haven't tried 
installing it since I won't have suitable sacrificial machine for a few days.)

Strange timing.  Perhaps an earlier contractual arrangement had to be honored.

As far as a future commercial version of PGP, at the moment this seems to be the 
McAffee E-Business Server and Client, which appear to be the successors to PGP Server 
and PGP Desktop, respectively.  The desktop product now appears to depend on the 
presence of a Server instance in order to function.  I believe the Server licenses for 
~$2K US.

Reference:  http://www.mcafeeb2b.com/products/ebusiness.asp

Puzzling that these products are not being more actively trumpeted as the worthy 
successors to PGP.  Or have I missed a recent marketing campaign?

If there are whitepapers describing a migration strategy, or the technical details of 
E-Business Client/Server interaction, I am not aware of them.  However, I'd be happy 
to be proven wrong on that point, or further enlightened regarding any of the above.

We Can help you Support

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Hi cypherpunks, here's the 411 on Original Art/New Music...
Today, (5/23/02)  at TRIPSPACE:

A NEW LOOP ON THE HOMEPAGE!
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RE: why OpenPGP is preferable to S/MIME

[Curt Smith]

Self-signed and CA x.509 certificates cannot be used in Outlook
even when they are added to the Trusted Root CA's.

Apparently Outlook is able to distinguish between these and
CA-issued x.509 certificates.

--- "Trei, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> I can't speak for mail-only clients, but it's easy (for
> moderately
> geekish or carefully instructed people) to add new trusted
> roots to IE or Netscape.
> 
> Peter Trei
> 


=
end
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
http://launch.yahoo.com

Re: Joe Sixpack doesn't run Linux

[Curt Smith]

This is a fairly accurate description of the situation, but
neglects to emphasize that the reason [1-cypherpunk] bothers
convincing [2-coerced associate] to use encrypted e-mail is
because [1] understands its importance and is attempting to
share/spread that understanding. 

Although [3-Joe Sixpack] may not understand or appreciate
encryption, [3]'s support is helpful to protect [1]'s
cryptography rights.  Furthermore once [3] has crypto, [3] will
resist attempts to take it away (along with his six pack,
etc.).

--- Meyer Wolfsheim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> There are three main classes of mail encryption users:
> 
> 1. The people who demand true security.
> 
> These are the cypherpunks, the government agencies, the savvy
> drug dealers, financial traders, etc. They won't trust
S/MIME,
> they won't trust EnvelopeMail, and they won't use Zixit. They

> might use PGP, though if they have the resources they'll use 
> something developed securely in-house. This class is fairly 
> small.
> 
> 2. The people coerced into using encryption by [1].
> 
> This is the government contractors, cypherpunks' relatives,
> the drug couriers, and other business partners of the first 
> class. These people will use whatever standard is dictated by

> the people with whom they must do business. This class is 
> also small, but makes up the majority of mail encryption 
> users today.
> 
> 3. The people who might use it if it is easy.
> 
> This is Joe Sixpack. This is who you are worrying about,
> wanting S/MIME to deliver on its promises. This is Templeton
> is worrying about, wanting opportunistic mail encryption.
> 
> Public key crypto is a complicated, confusing concept. To
> date, no one has even proposed a system that would be both 
> secure under a reasonable threat model for [1] and simple 
> enough to be groked by [3]. And guess what? [3] doesn't care.
> [3] isn't asking for it. [3] might use it if it existed, but
> you'd be lucky to be appreciated for your troubles. Most
> likely, you're only in for a lot of criticism when your 
> solution doesn't measure up to [1]'s standards.
> 
> If you want to be the guardian of Joe Sixpack, go right
> ahead. Be warned that it is a thankless job.
> 
> 
> -MW-


=
end
LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience
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[Senior Selling]

Title: Roth conversions = jumbo annuity sales





   

  
   

  
   
 
   
  
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  Legal Notice 

RE: why OpenPGP is preferable to S/MIME (Re: NAI pulls out the DM CA stick)

[Trei, Peter]

> Adam Back[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> 
> On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 03:05:49PM -0400, Adam Shostack wrote:
> > So what if we create the Cypherpunks Root CA, which (either) signs
> > what you submit to it via a web page, or publish the secret key?
> 
[...]

> > We then get the Cypherpunks Root CA key added to the browsers--it
> > can't be that hard, the US postal service managed it...
> 
> I think you'd have to do it in reverse to stand a chance if you
> literally published the private key -- they're never going to add the
> public key for a known compromised private key.  Also it costs lots of
> money, and takes some time to take effect.
> 
> Adam
> 
I can't speak for mail-only clients, but it's easy (for moderately
geekish or carefully instructed people) to add new trusted
roots to IE or Netscape.

Peter Trei

Re: why OpenPGP is preferable to S/MIME (Re: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick)

[Adam Back]

On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 03:05:49PM -0400, Adam Shostack wrote:
> So what if we create the Cypherpunks Root CA, which (either) signs
> what you submit to it via a web page, or publish the secret key?

This won't achieve the desired effect because it will just destroy the
S/MIME trust mechanism.  S/MIME is based on the assumption that all
CAs are trustworthy.  Anyone can forge any identity for clients with
that key installed.  S/MIME isn't really compatible with the web of
trust because because of the two tier trust system -- all CAs are
assumed trustworthy and all users are not able to sign anything.  By
issuing a key and revealing it's private key, you elevate a rogue user
to being a CA and then the system would be broken.

> We then get the Cypherpunks Root CA key added to the browsers--it
> can't be that hard, the US postal service managed it...

I think you'd have to do it in reverse to stand a chance if you
literally published the private key -- they're never going to add the
public key for a known compromised private key.  Also it costs lots of
money, and takes some time to take effect.

Adam

(OTC:VTLV) Poised for Big Jump NJP

[Investor Relations]

Title: SPECIAL ALERT
Special Situation and Alert: Vital Living Inc.  (OTC BB:VTLV) Vital Living  develops and markets nutraceuticals formulated by physicians for distribution through physicians. The company is developing and testing nutraceuticals in collaboration with leading medical experts based on the best available scientific evidence. Our nutraceuticals are designed to be incorporated by physicians into a standard physician/patient program, supported by a specially designed compliance regimen. FOCUS POINTS The company just completed a $3 million dollar plus private placement, and is in the process of completing a $5-$15 million institutional private placement of convertible preferred equity.The stock is up from .85 in March to about $3.  In the future VTLV will have a market cap of over $50 million, and enough shareholders to qualify for a NASDAQ listing.* VTLV NEWS*In an effort to address America's #1 health concern, Vital Living is targeting cardiovascular health with its first physician-formulated nutraceuticals.Vital Living has created partnerships with the Arizona Heart Institute (AHI) and leading health education organizations to develop its cardiovascular health products and programs. These partnerships are helping Vital Living develop nutraceuticals and accompanying lifestyle programs best-suited to achieving cardiovascular health.Management has locked up an exclusive three-year product formulation and direct distribution agreement with the Mayo Clinic of heart disease-the Arizona Heart Institute (AHI).VTLVs doctor formulated and AHI approved nutritional supplements will be distributed at AHI facilities to its entire past/present patient population.  AHI and their affiliates treat more than 25,000 cardiovascular patients annually.  The agreement also details a joint introduction of the cardiovascular nutritional regimen to AHIs active data base of over 150,000 patients.They have locked up one of the heart worldÿ92s leading gurus-Ted Dietrich, M.D., who is the founder and medical director of AHI, to actively work with VTLV in integrating their program into the AHI system.  Dr. Dietrich also consults with dozens of heart centers throughout the world, and it is expected the VTLV nutritional program will be introduced outside the AHI market when possible.This recommendation is an unpaid, unsolicited report from The ChangeWave Hedge Fund Briefing, a weekly market intelligence service based on primary research conducted with the assistance of the ChangeWave Alliance, a network of 3,500  professionals in 20 industry segments providing daily feedback on how companies, industry segments, and technologies are performing in the real world. Daily Opinion: BUYSYMBOL:    VTLVTarget Price:    $20.0052 Week High:    $4.0552 Week Low:    $0.85Current Price:    $3.10 COMPANY PROFILE VTLV  is a well poised company in a widely known industry, nutritional supplements.VTLVs game plan is ambitious yet very likely: create and lock-up a new and extremely powerful distribution channel for premium quality/premium priced nutritional supplements (cardiovascular specialists) aimed at the largest $multi-billion market segment for these products-cardiovascular disease and prevention.The monthly revenue per patient for the nutritional supplement regimen will exceed $50 a month-with some health plans already considering including the costs in reimbursable healthcare costs.The key to the marketing plan is simple yet very powerful: the supplements are prescribed by the patientÿ92s heart doctor and are included in a healthy heart protocol that EACH patient is expected to maintain.  Compliance with doctor enforced programs is significantly higher than without physician support. So far, management has done all the right things to get this company going and off to a flying start-including raising public and private venture capital in the worldÿ92s toughest fundraising environment. CONCLUSION  The AHI collaboration, combined with an automatic credit card debiting/restocking system, can easily create a $5-$10 million per month sales volume with incredible customer retention.  It boggles the mind to think how well this marketing approach can work when your personal physician is recommending the products.VTLV is well poised for owning a very lucrative niche in the billion dollar nutritional supplement arena.We recommend the stock as a speculative BUY now with a target of $20.   Disclaimer: Stock Alert provides information on selected companies that it believes has investment potential. Stock Alert is not a registered investment advisor or broker - dealer. This report is provided as an information service only, and the statements and opinions in this report should not be construed as an offer or solicitation to buy or sell any security. Stock Alert accepts no liability for any loss arising from an investors reliance on or use of this report. An investment in VTLV is

Re: why OpenPGP is preferable to S/MIME (Re: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick)

[Adam Shostack]

On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 07:10:01PM +0100, Adam Back wrote:
| Certificate authorities also can forge certificates and issue
| certificates in fake names if asked by government agencies.  S/MIME is
| too much under central control by design to be a sensible choice for
| general individual use.

So what if we create the Cypherpunks Root CA, which (either) signs
what you submit to it via a web page, or publish the secret key?

We then get the Cypherpunks Root CA key added to the browsers--it
can't be that hard, the US postal service managed it...

Adam


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
   -Hume

why OpenPGP is preferable to S/MIME (Re: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick)

[Adam Back]

Certificate authorities also can forge certificates and issue
certificates in fake names if asked by government agencies.  S/MIME is
too much under central control by design to be a sensible choice for
general individual use.

The central control is doubtless primarily motivated by the hopes of
turning a profit selling certificates to allow people to exchange
secure email etc.

OpenPGP's WoT provides a superset of S/MIME's hierarchically
controlled answer to identification and trust -- you can still have
CAs with OpenPGP, plus you can cross check and peer-to-peer certify
people you wish to interact with and so not need to trust some
untrustworthy and generally incompetent organisation.  (Verisign for
example issued someone a microsoft code signing cert).

Adam

On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 09:46:34AM -0700, Curt Smith wrote:
> Although I also hope for widespread e-mail encryption, I feel
> that S/MIME introduces more problems than it resolves.
> 
> Certificate Authorities issue certificates complete with CA
> imposed expiration dates and usage limitations.
> (I prefer independent systems with unrestricted certificates)
> 
> Certificate Authorities match individuals to keys
> (Thanks, but no thanks)
> 
> Certificate Authorities can revoke certificates at anytime
> (CA-driven DOS attack)
> 
> These are in addition to compatibility and security issues.

Leads! Leads! Leads!

[tommyg]

Title: Untitled Document




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Joe Sixpack doesn't run Linux

[Meyer Wolfsheim]

On Thu, 23 May 2002, Lucky Green wrote:

> Adam wrote:
> > Which is too bad.  If NAI-PGP went away completely, then
> > compatability problems would be reduced.  I also expect that
> > the German goverment group currently funding GPG would be
> > more willing to fund UI work for windows.
>
> Tell me about it. PGP, GPG, and all its variants need to die before
> S/MIME will be able to break into the Open Source community, thus
> removing the last, but persistent, block to an instant increase in
> number of potential users of secure email by several orders of
> magnitude.
>
> Here's to hoping,

Good god, Lucky. Are you serious?

If S/MIME were actually usable and accessible to the end user today, PGP
and GnuPG would be irrelevant. You think that a smattering of Open Source
users are what is preventing widespread usage of S/MIME? That's too kind
to both the "Open Source Community" and to S/MIME.

S/MIME support is in just about every popular email client out of the box.
Why is PGP more widely used? This shouldn't be the case -- installing PGP,
configuring it to work with your mail program, etc., isn't trivial.

As much as I would like to say that security issues, such as the inability
of Alice to prevent Bob from encrypting messages to Alice with a 40 bit
cipher, are what puts PGP in the lead, the truth is that many users would
likely be happy to use a less secure mail encryption program if it meant
one less installation step.

No, the many version and implementation incompatibilities in the S/MIME
space, coupled with the reliance on a central third-party CA, are S/MIME's
downfall. Thinking that PGP's existence has anything to do with this is
silly.

Remove PGP, and you won't find more S/MIME users. You'll see more
unencrypted email, and more "new proposals" for encrypted email (such as
the zero-UI and passive attack protection systems that Brad Templeton and
Bram Cohen have been passing wind about for a few years now).

There are three main classes of mail encryption users:

1. The people who demand true security.

These are the cypherpunks, the government agencies, the savvy drug
dealers, financial traders, etc. They won't trust S/MIME, they won't trust
EnvelopeMail, and they won't use Zixit. They might use PGP, though if they
have the resources they'll use something developed securely in-house. This
class is fairly small.

2. The people coerced into using encryption by [1].

This is the government contractors, cypherpunks' relatives, the drug
couriers, and other business partners of the first class. These people
will use whatever standard is dictated by the people with whom they must
do business. This class is also small, but makes up the majority of mail
encryption users today.

3. The people who might use it if it is easy.

This is Joe Sixpack. This is who you are worrying about, wanting S/MIME to
deliver on its promises. This is Templeton is worrying about, wanting
opportunistic mail encryption.

Public key crypto is a complicated, confusing concept. To date, no one has
even proposed a system that would be both secure under a reasonable threat
model for [1] and simple enough to be groked by [3]. And guess what? [3]
doesn't care. [3] isn't asking for it. [3] might use it if it existed, but
you'd be lucky to be appreciated for your troubles. Most likely, you're
only in for a lot of criticism when your solution doesn't measure up to
[1]'s standards.

If you want to be the guardian of Joe Sixpack, go right ahead. Be warned
that it is a thankless job.


-MW-

Open-Source Fight Flares At Pentagon Microsoft Lobbies Hard Against Free Software

[Steve Schear]

>Open-Source Fight Flares At Pentagon
>Microsoft Lobbies Hard Against Free Software
>
>
>By Jonathan Krim
>Washington Post Staff Writer
>Thursday, May 23, 2002; Page E01
>
>Microsoft Corp. is aggressively lobbying the Pentagon to squelch its
>growing use of freely distributed computer software and switch to
>proprietary systems such as those sold by the software giant,
>according to officials familiar with the campaign.
>
>In what one military source called a "barrage" of contacts with
>officials at the Defense Information Systems Agency and the office of
>Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld over the past few months, the
>company said "open source" software threatens security and its
>intellectual property.
>
>But the effort may have backfired. A May 10 report prepared for the
>Defense Department concluded that open source often results in more
>secure, less expensive applications and that, if anything, its use
>should be expanded.
>
>"Banning open source would have immediate, broad, and strongly
>negative impacts on the ability of many sensitive and security-focused
>DOD groups to protect themselves against cyberattacks," said the
>report, by Mitre Corp.



>Microsoft also said open-source software is inherently less secure
>because the code is available for the world to examine for flaws,
>making it possible for hackers or criminals to exploit
>them. Proprietary software, the company argued, is more secure because
>of its closed nature.

A master of the security half-truth chimes in...

>"I've never seen a systematic study that showed open source to be more
>secure," said Dorothy Denning, a professor of computer science at
>Georgetown University who specializes in information warfare.



>John Stenbit, an assistant secretary of defense and the Defense
>Department's chief information officer, said Microsoft has said using
>free software with commercial software might violate the
>intellectual-property rights of companies such as Microsoft. Stenbit
>said the issue is legally "murky."



>Stenbit said the debate is academic and that what matters is how
>secure a given piece of software is. To that end, the Defense
>Department is now prohibited from purchasing any software that has not
>undergone security testing by the NSA. Stenbit said he is unaware of
>any open-source software that has been tested.

This should present no problem for open source software.  No purchase takes 
place since the software is "free" by definition.

steve

RE: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick

[Curt Smith]

Although I also hope for widespread e-mail encryption, I feel
that S/MIME introduces more problems than it resolves.

Certificate Authorities issue certificates complete with CA
imposed expiration dates and usage limitations.
(I prefer independent systems with unrestricted certificates)

Certificate Authorities match individuals to keys
(Thanks, but no thanks)

Certificate Authorities can revoke certificates at anytime
(CA-driven DOS attack)

These are in addition to compatibility and security issues.


--- Lucky Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Adam wrote:
>> Which is too bad.  If NAI-PGP went away completely, then 
>> compatability problems would be reduced.  I also expect
>> that the German goverment group currently funding GPG would 
>> be  more willing to fund UI work for windows.
> 
> Tell me about it. PGP, GPG, and all its variants need to die
> before S/MIME will be able to break into the Open Source 
> community, thus removing the last, but persistent, block to 
> an instant increase in number of potential users of secure 
> email by several orders of magnitude.
> 
> Here's to hoping,
> --Lucky

PS. "end" used to trunkate postings eliminating attached spam -
does anyone know how to do this these days?

end

=
end
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RE: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick

[contrary]

Greetings,

On Thu, 23 May 2002 00:24:00 -0700, "Lucky Green"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Adam wrote:
> > Which is too bad.  If NAI-PGP went away completely, then 
> > compatability problems would be reduced.  I also expect that 
> > the German goverment group currently funding GPG would be 
> > more willing to fund UI work for windows.
> 
> Tell me about it. PGP, GPG, and all its variants need to die before
> S/MIME will be able to break into the Open Source community, thus
> removing the last, but persistent, block to an instant increase in
> number of potential users of secure email by several orders of
> magnitude.

As long as you obtain your S/MIME certificate from an apporved CA,
using an approved payment method and appropriate identification.

IIRC Thawte has a procedure for authenticating their free certificates
by proxy:  A Thawte certificate holder certifies that s/he has seen the
credentials of some other certificate holder, in absence of a physical
Bank or Notary Public.  Both the certifier and certified gain points by
this validation process.  

> Here's to hoping,
> --Lucky

Indeed.  -=c=-
-- 
  contrary
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
http://fastmail.fm - One of many happy users:
  http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html

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DEPT. OF INTERIOR SPEAKS WITH FORKED TONGUE

Kelly O’Meara reports that a court-appointed monitor says the slings and arrows 
of Interior Secretary Gale Norton are off target and thinks Indian trust monies 
need to be put into a receivership.

http://www.insightmag.com/news/252749.html

...

THE NET EFFECT AND TECHNOLOGY POLITICS

Brandon Spun tells us that once a liberal, cyber-reporter Declan McCullagh had a 
political epiphany after realizing the threat that government regulation poses 
to the Internet.

http://www.insightmag.com/news/252795.html





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Re: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick

[Marshall Clow]

At 10:34 AM -0400 5/23/02, Adam Shostack wrote:
>On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 12:24:00AM -0700, Lucky Green wrote:
>| Adam wrote:
>| > Which is too bad.  If NAI-PGP went away completely, then
>| > compatability problems would be reduced.  I also expect that
>| > the German goverment group currently funding GPG would be
>| > more willing to fund UI work for windows.
>|
>| Tell me about it. PGP, GPG, and all its variants need to die before
>| S/MIME will be able to break into the Open Source community, thus
>| removing the last, but persistent, block to an instant increase in
>| number of potential users of secure email by several orders of
>| magnitude.
>
>Are you claiming that S/mime no longer has the enourmous compatability
>problems it used to have?
>
>Is there any Open source implementation of the protocol?

Try .
For some definitions of open source, it qualifies.
-- 
-- Marshall

Marshall Clow Idio Software   
My name is Bobba Fett. You killed my father, prepare to die!

Peter Wayner's New Book: Translucent Databases

[R. A. Hettinga]

http://www.wayner.org/books/td/

Translucent Databases


Do you have personal information in your database?

Do you keep files on your customers, your employees, or anyone else?

Do you need to worry about European laws restricting the information you keep?

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Do you deal with medical records or personal secrets?

Most database administrators have some of these worries. Some have all of
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Translucent databases provide better, deeper protection by scrambling the
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-- Michael Widenius, MySQL
Now order from Amazon.com
---

Translucent Databases contains several dozen examples written in
basic SQL and Java. The code is written to be easy-to-follow and portable.
All of the code can be extended and modified to fit a number of different
applications. Here are some of the examples:

*   A database that hides the position of Navy ships from enemies while
simultaneously providing accurate information to those with proper
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*   An anti-rape database that identifies trends without containing any
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*   A babysitter scheduling service that matches parents with available
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*   A department store database that guards the modesty of customers.  
*   A private accounting system that detects fraud without revealing
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*   A pharmacy database for preventing dangerous drug interactions while
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*   A tool for travel agents to protect their clients from stalkers and
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*   A stock exchange transaction mechanism designed to stop insider-trading. 
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*   A credit-card database for defending crucial e-commerce transactions.
*   A patent search tool that doesn't reveal the nature and focus of the
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*   A conference bulletin board that routes messages without helping stalkers.
*   A tool for studying the radon concentration in homes without
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*   An anti-money laundering database.


   
  Anyone who purchases the book receives an unlimited license to use the
source code from the examples on up to ten CPUs. If you have greater needs,
other licenses are available. Or just buy another copy of the book.

-


A Supplementary Syllabus

If you're a professor teaching a database course, you may want to use
Translucent Databases  as an additional textbook. You are welcome to
consider this  one week module presents some of the most important concepts
from Translucent Databases.  It consists ofthree parts that roughly
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Part I -- One-Way Functions

*   One-way functions are easy to compute but hard to reverse.
*   Some of the common ones are MD5, SHA, and raising a number to a power
modulo a prime number. This section will just use generic one-way functions
and call them h(x). There is no reason to do more with advanced mathematics.
*   Most common one-way functions are not truly impossible to reverse--
they're just practically impossible. Describe how hash functions like MD5
produce their answer. How long does it take to search for a collision? How
long does it take to do brute force attack?
*   Show how to protect passwords using this approach. Anyone can look at
the file and anyone can test a password presented as real. But no one can
take the password d

Re: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick

[Adam Shostack]

On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 12:24:00AM -0700, Lucky Green wrote:
| Adam wrote:
| > Which is too bad.  If NAI-PGP went away completely, then 
| > compatability problems would be reduced.  I also expect that 
| > the German goverment group currently funding GPG would be 
| > more willing to fund UI work for windows.
| 
| Tell me about it. PGP, GPG, and all its variants need to die before
| S/MIME will be able to break into the Open Source community, thus
| removing the last, but persistent, block to an instant increase in
| number of potential users of secure email by several orders of
| magnitude.

Are you claiming that S/mime no longer has the enourmous compatability
problems it used to have?

Is there any Open source implementation of the protocol?

Adam

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
   -Hume

PRNG

[gfgs pedo]

hi,

well I tried to improve idea 1 for my PRNG.ItS as
posted below.
The one thing which I cannot mathametically say is how
much de-skewing is exactly obtained by putting it in
the binary tree as shown & traversing in pre-order.

http://www.ircsuper.net/~neo/
it might a better to go for url since subscripts &
super scripts dont work in plain text

Any one sees any flaw in my improved PRNG ?

Two ideas for generating random numbers
Consider a non-deterministic finite acceptor or nfa
given by

M=(Q,sigma,delta,q(0),F) 

where

Q is the finite set of internal stated

sigma is the finite set of input symbols

q0 element of Q ,the initial state

F(proper subset of) Q is the set of final states

delta:q*(sigma U {lambda})->2Q, the transition
function.

Let L be the language accepted by the nfa

M=(Q,sigma,delta,q0,F)

Given by

L(M)={W(element of)sigma*:delta*(q0,W(intersection)F
(not) nullable)}

For our random number generator we use a n-level
ordered binary tree.

We use 4 independent bit file streams.

For that we choose any 4 plain text files

The input of each file is fed to a stop & go generator

with LSFR-1= x^128+x^7+x^2+x^1+x^0 as primitive
polynomail modulo 2

with LSFR-2=x^88+x^8+x^5+x^4+x^3+x^1+x^0 as primitive
polynomial modulo 2

with LSFR-3=x^80+x^7+x^5+x^3+x^2+x^1+x^0 as primitive
polynomial modulo 2

The pseudo random numbers generated using these 4
files are respectively put into

file1,file2,file3 & file4

files have good statistical propertied


and a correlation attack is not possible

We xor 

For i=0 to n

bit(i)file5=bit(i)file1 (xor) bit(i) file2 (xor)
bit(i) file3 (xor) bit(i)file4

file5 is always the input for the binry tree

If we define p(0)=0.5+e ,where e is the eccentricity

Xoring 4 bits yeild p(0)=0.5+8*(e^4)

Even for a bias of e=0.25 ,p(0)=0.5+8*(0.25^4)=0,53125

The bias diminishes from 0.25 to 0.053125 

Xoring 4 bits will suffice since,by using the
alternating stop & go generator brings about high

entropy to the system of numbers.In addition we xor 4
bits together to reduce the bias.

With these 2 steps the co-rrelation & bias among bits
is significantly reduced.

The input of the binary tree is the binary stream of
file5.

It is put into a binary tree & the operations
henceforth performed are for de-skewing & removing

correlation among bits

The input symbols are entered into the ordered binary
tree such that the symbols when read from left to
right, each vertex at any subsequent level, other than
the n th level has 2 outgoing nodes. No new nodes are
created until all the nodes at any given level has 2
outgoing nodes.

Eg: AB->( 1001 1010) the binary equalant is
inserted into the binary tree as in figure 1.

Click here for Fig 1

If every node at the (n-1)level does not contain two
leaves make it so by padding a zero at the n th level.


Now we consider the nfa earlier defined

M=(Q,sigma,delta,q0,F)

Here

Sigma={0,1}

Now we traverse the binary tree in 'pre order ' along
with the following transition rules

delta(qk,0)->delta(qk+1,1)={qk+2} 

delta(qk,1)->delta(qk+1,0)={qk+2} 

qk+2(element of F) 

delta*(qi,00)->delta(qj,lambda)={qj+2} 

delta*(qi,11)->delta(qj,lambda)={qj+2} 

where

qj+2(element of)F and j,k are the levels of the tree
when traversed in pre order.

Pls refer fig 3.

Click here for fig 3.

delta({qx},0)={qy,qz} 

delta({qx},1)={qy,qz} 

That is,if 2 consecutive 0 s or 1 s are encountered
,we skip one level.

i.e is a lambda transition is made as in fig 3,q(z)
being a final state of the nfa. If in the input
sequence a 01 or 10 is encountered , then the next
level is also a final state of the nfa, i.e state q(y)
in fig 3

If a lambda transition has to be done from a left
leaf, the corresponding right leaf at the same level
is considered. 

If a lambda transition has to be done from a right
leaf, the next node according to preorder traversal
rule is considered. 

As an example we take Fig 1 and traverse it in
preorder along with the given transition rules to
obtain random numbers.(the levels that are being
skipped are shown in red in fig 2. 

Click here for fig 2

Doing so the earlier mentioned example we get 

1010101

i.e AB->Binary Tree representation ->Pre order
traversal with Transition Rules->1010101 

By choosing any sub tree of the given binary tree a
new set of random number generators can be generated.
Even by adding or removing a single symbol from the
input file generates a different set of random
numbers. 

If P(00) represents probabilty of occurance of
discarding 00.

P(00)=(0.5+e)(0.5+e)= (0.5+e)^2=0.25 + e + e^2 

Similarly 

P(11)=(0.5-e)(0.5-e)=(0.5-e)^2=0.25 - e + e^2 

The probability of any particular pair being discarded
is 

P(0)+P(1) =0.25+e+e^2+0.25-e+e^2=0.5+2(e^2) 

P(10)=(0.5 - e)*(0.5 + e)=0.25 - e^2 

P(01)=(0.5 + e)*(0.5 - e)=0.25 - e^2 

so the expected number of input bits to produce X
output bits is X/(0.25 - e^2).

Though we loose a few bits,the period of the LSFR's
are very large & will suffice to pro

[±¤°í]±¹³»ÃÖ´ë ¼±¹° ÆÇÃ˹° ÇÒÀθÅÀåÀÔ´Ï´Ù

[gift]

 REMOVE
  


¾È³çÇϽʴϱî?

Á¤ÅëºÎ±Ç°í
»çÇ׿¡ ÀÇÇÏ¿© [±¤°í] ·Î Ç¥½ÃµÈ ¸ÞÀÏÀÔ´Ï´Ù 

±ÍÇÏÀÇ ¸ÞÀÏ
ÁÖ¼ÒÀÌ¿ÜÀÇ ¾î¶°ÇÑ Á¤º¸µµ °¡Áö°íÀÖÁö ¾ÊÀ¸¸ç 

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»ó´ÜÀÇ ¼ö½Å°ÅºÎ ¹öÆ°À» ´­·¯ÁÖ¼¼¿ä
Á˼ÛÇÕ´Ï´Ù.

   
 http://www.giftks.net
 
 
 

Re: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick

[D.Popkin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

"Lucky Green" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> PGP, GPG, and all its variants need to die before S/MIME will be
> able to break into the Open Source community, thus removing the
> last, but persistent, block to an instant increase in number of
> potential users of secure email by several orders of magnitude.

Your confidence in this is not universally shared.  Can you please
make the case again?  Pointers would be fine.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: 2.6.3ia
Charset: noconv

iQBVAwUBPOzSFfPsjZpmLV0BAQHFeQH/btnBBUdbfdpt1+rJ/d8Q7LhdPylsl+aM
AxwJL5cy7645npVdPlIczUc7FkyhcVSe3/WI5D3MR4j8GW4NyDtXWw==
=qxZa
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Slashdot | Future Computers

[Jim Choate]

http://slashdot.org/articles/02/05/22/2350205.shtml?tid=126
-- 

 --


  A witty saying proves nothing.  Voltaire

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  www.open-forge.org

Slashdot | FBI Databases Used for Stock Fraud

[Jim Choate]

http://slashdot.org/articles/02/05/22/2347219.shtml?tid=158
-- 

 --


  A witty saying proves nothing.  Voltaire

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  www.open-forge.org

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BAHAR FESTiVALi..

[Bahar.Festivali]

Title: bAHAR FESTÝVALÝ




  

	
		
			
	
	
		
			
	
	
		
			
	
	
		
			
			
		
			
			
	
	
		
			
			
	
	
		
			
			
		
			
			
		
			
			
	
	
		
			
			
		
			
			
		
			
			
		
			
			
	

  




  

	
		
			
			
	
	
		
			
  
  

		
			    
11:45
		
			Festival Baþlangýç Saati
	

		
			12:00 - 14:00
		
			Lipton Ice Tea Animasyon Gösterileri,
	

		
			Canlý Müzik Yayýný by Hot Station 
Dj's
	

		
			14:00 - 15:00
		
			Suitcase Konseri
	

		
			15:00 - 16:00
		
			Koç Üni. Step Takýmý, Dans Kulübü,

Lipton Ice Tea Animasyon Gösterileri
Canlý Müzik Yayýný by Hot Station Dj's
	

		
			16:00 - 17:00
		
			Park Konseri
	

		
			17:00 - 18:00
		
			Lipton Ice Tea Animasyon Gösterileri
Canlý Müzik Yayýný by Hot Station Dj's
	

		
			18:00 - 19:00
		
			Mr.No Konseri
	

		
			19:30 : 21:00
		
			Duman Konseri
	

		
			21:45 - 23:00
		
			Teoman Konseri
	

		
			    
23:00
		
			Clubbin' On Campus performed by Hakan 
Henry
Bu aktiviteler ile birlikte gün boyunca yapýlacak olan diðer 
aktiviteler:
1. Lipton Animasyon ve Gösteri Grubu'nun gösterileri
  - Ice Tea Bowling
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 3 kiþilik paten ve trambolin ekibinin özel rampada 
nefes kesen gösterisi.
  - Ice Tea Cheerleaders: 4 Profesyonel dansçýdan oluþan pon pon kýzlar 
grubu
2. Koç Üniversitesi Step Takýmý ve Dans Kulübü gösterileri.
	
  
  


	
	
		
			
	
	
		
			
	
	
		
			
		
			
		
			
	
	
		
			
	

  

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RE: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick

[Lucky Green]

Adam wrote:
> Which is too bad.  If NAI-PGP went away completely, then 
> compatability problems would be reduced.  I also expect that 
> the German goverment group currently funding GPG would be 
> more willing to fund UI work for windows.

Tell me about it. PGP, GPG, and all its variants need to die before
S/MIME will be able to break into the Open Source community, thus
removing the last, but persistent, block to an instant increase in
number of potential users of secure email by several orders of
magnitude.

Here's to hoping,
--Lucky

Re: NAI pulls out the DMCA stick

[Bill Stewart]

At 12:43 AM 05/22/2002 -0400, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
>At 11:49 PM -0400 on 5/21/02, Luis Villa wrote, on FoRK:
> > Well, yes, but you seem to be implying some sinister motive that
> > not all of us are reading between the lines clearly enough to see
> > :) I mean, otherwise, this just seems like a fairly garden-variety
> > silly use of the DMCA by a large software company. What am I
> > missing?
>
>Not much.

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NAI is trying to sell off the remains of PGP Inc., and rather than try to
get money for a twisted empty shell of a dot-com-era software company,
they're probably hoping to have a less-empty shell by maximizing the
remaining value of "their" "intellectual property".
So yes, it's in Bob's second category of history. :-)
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