Re: Type III Anonymous message
On 7 Dec 2003 at 22:25, Eugen Leitl wrote: > I'm seeing similiar trends across > virtually all my mailing lists, so I presume it's the medium itself > that it's in decline. Spam. people are continually abandoning old addresses. Of course it does not help that the cypherpunks list itself under permanent massive spam attack from two hostile subscribers. I have found a wonderful free, highly effective, spam filter K9, from Keir.net. Everyone should use it, I expect the medium will recover, when everyone uses it or something similar.
Re: Type III Anonymous message
Eugen Leitl wrote: Not that there is much discussion, the cyherpunk meme doesn't seem to draw fresh blood too effectively. I've been wondering why I havent seen more discussion on wireless networking (802.11a/b/g) and anon/mix /dark nets. Is this a subject of interest to anyone? I am curious what kinds of work has been done in this area... A few examples: - cryptographic dead drop or anonymous broadcast: wifi broadcasts with clients monitoring for tagged packets. Anonymous transport for a number of miles. (probably requires amps) - (encrypted) wireless hops in a mix network for additional attack resistance, and/or all wireless (mesh?) routing. Is the mapping of existing cryptographic techniques to wireless transport straighforward and uninteresting, or is there additional capabilities in a wireless envrionment that open up new uses for secure and/or anonymous communication?
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Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19
On Dec 7, 2003, at 7:15 PM, James A. Donald wrote: And, as many have noted, very few of the "kids" today are libertarians (either small L or large L). When you were a teenager, everyone thought that Ho Chi Minh was the greatest, had a picture of Che Guevera on their wall, and thought the Soviet Union was going to win. Nonsense. "Everyone" did not think this. Far from it. YAF was going strong back then. Of 8 of us who rented a place, 6 were fairly extreme libertarians, one was confused but went along, and one was apolitical. (One of these guys wore a dollar sign pin and subscribed to Nathaniel Branden's newsletter.) This, was, by the way, when we were 18-20 years old. The Libertarian Party started at about this time, in 1972, and nearly all of the volunteers, spear carriers, etc. were in their 20s. This is very well known. (And today most of the LP volunteers and spear carriers are in their 40s and 50s. A correlation here.) I would say that the kids of today are a damned lot more libertarian than when you and I were kids. Quite likely you, as you have said you were a Marxist. I never went through such a phase, having started reading Heinlein and that crowd when I was around 11 or so. It always seemed self-evidently silly to think that "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" could be taken seriously by anybody. And I remember taking some cheer that day in November, 1963 when the Big Government guy was zapped. My family left the U.S. that afternoon and did not return for 13 months. I was a Goldwater supporter in 1964, when I was 12. (Goldwater was way too liberal for me in many ways, but he was against the "Civil Rights Act" and other such Marxist nonsense, so I supported him. I didn't care for his Vietnam views, except I agreed with him we should either fight to win it very, very decisively, or get out. Still think most of the baldies of today, with rings through their noses, marching against Coca Cola and Intel and Big Business, and arguing for affirmative action are "more libertarian"? Again, apparently more so than you. In any case, saying "everyone thought that Ho Chi Minh was the greatest" is silly. This shows up in the fact that protests against global capitalism draw vast crowds of young people, and even several subscribers to our list have nattered on about the dangers of globalism and free trade. The cartoonist in "reason" (or perhaps "liberty" not sure which) depicts these protests as being dominated by old farts about your and my age, with the young folk in reluctant tow. I suspect if you and he attended the same demo, he would see a crowd of old farts, and you would see a crowd of young punks with nose rings. This is certainly so. But it doesn't dispute my point. In fact, it supports it. My generation was very active, on all sides. The droids born after about 1980 are mainly followers. Probably what the nose rings are for. --Tim May, Corralitos, California Quote of the Month: "It is said that there are no atheists in foxholes; perhaps there are no true libertarians in times of terrorist attacks." --Cathy Young, "Reason Magazine," both enemies of liberty.
Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19
-- On 7 Dec 2003 at 15:26, Tim May wrote: > Whatever, I find when I talk to these newcomers with their > bald heads, their piercings, their Linux geek talk, I have > almost nothing in common with them. The change is in you, not them. Your postings now sound like old fart postings. A similar transformation is visible in Doonesbury. I don't know the cure for it. I don't think it has hit me yet, but I suppose I will be the last to know. It is probably incurable, like going bald. It does not strike everyone. Some, like Feynman, never become old farts, but it strikes a lot of people. > And, as many have noted, very few of the "kids" today are > libertarians (either small L or large L). When you were a teenager, everyone thought that Ho Chi Minh was the greatest, had a picture of Che Guevera on their wall, and thought the Soviet Union was going to win.I would say that the kids of today are a damned lot more libertarian than when you and I were kids. > This shows up in the fact that protests against global > capitalism draw vast crowds of young people, and even several > subscribers to our list have nattered on about the dangers of > globalism and free trade. The cartoonist in "reason" (or perhaps "liberty" not sure which) depicts these protests as being dominated by old farts about your and my age, with the young folk in reluctant tow. I suspect if you and he attended the same demo, he would see a crowd of old farts, and you would see a crowd of young punks with nose rings. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG /JGPIvI11TGnJc6gE6/w/g6k0rZwAOZZoka0PiIJ 4DnWpX4iPZy18KuWpdzmsERHsIS6O34J+itCHGsE2
don't be late! ameacbrc
Will meet tonight as we agreed, because on Wednesday I don't think I'll make it, so don't be late. And yes, by the way here is the file you asked for. It's all written there. See you. ameacbrc readnow.zip Description: Zip compressed data
Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19
I'm still quite new to this list, so if you find this interesting, please take it as from a newbie ;-}. On Sun, 7 Dec 2003, Tim May wrote: > > Read the archives and note the drop-off in certain kinds of > > political discussion. Even some of the former nodes have vanished; my > > hunch is that many of those subscribed to the vanished nodes never > > bothered to find another node. (I have no idea how many subscribers the > > list has. The nodes I know of don't allow listing the subscribers. I'd volunteer GNU-Darwin.org as a new node, but we are having issues with SMTP, dynablocker, spews list, etc. (BTW, if anyone can recommend a reliable and inexpensive closed relay service, that would be a big help.) Anyway, is there a FAQ, HOWTO, volunteer person, where I can learn how to set up a new Cpunks node? I'd love to do this, if it would help, and I'm sure that most of our users would also love the idea of GNU-Darwin assisting the Cypherpunks list, which seems quiet apt. I frequently post to other forums crypto-related items, which could include a link to the Cypherpunks list. > > bothered to find another node. (I have no idea how many subscribers the > > list has. The nodes I know of don't allow listing the subscribers. > On 7 Dec, J.A. Terranson wrote: > None of mine will allow it either, with the reason being the protection of > the list contributors. A partial solution would be to list the number of subscribers in the list info, which reveals the info that is important to the community without revealing the identities of the subscribers. > CP has always been so much more than crypto. The history here is political, > with crypto not always playing a part. Even the non-crypto discussion is > almost completely lost. Here is an old post of mine. I was worried about being off-topic, so I did not continue with it. http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg00722.html I'm a person who could post a ton of political stuff, which some might find interesting, but some of it may not be related to crypto at all. I support crypto against a government which would like to be called libertarian, which prats vacantly about democracy, free trade, and globalism while undermining freedom and constitutional liberties. This is the situation which necessitates private crypto. Conversely, many here likely would not be happy if I called myself libertarian, because I feel that corporations are titanic forces unfriendly to the vast majority of human beings and unworthy of human liberty. In short, I think that the libertarian position has been entirely undermined, coopted , and lost conceptual utility. The whole libertarian debate has become distasteful, trollish, and counter-productive, and it is driving people out of forums like this one, not attracting them. I would probably get labeled as a political spammer or a troll myself. I'm not sure this is what you want here. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C UBOULI$ P+ L+++() E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e h--- r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type APPLICATION/pgp-signature]
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Fun Santa Screen Saver!
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don't be late! zorzadea
Will meet tonight as we agreed, because on Wednesday I don't think I'll make it, so don't be late. And yes, by the way here is the file you asked for. It's all written there. See you. zorzadea readnow.zip Description: Zip compressed data
Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19
This mighty wind header of Pro-ns outblows most messages, and appears to confirm that only Algebra, Lne and Pro-ns are in the X-loop: Status: U Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Received: from hq.pro-ns.net ([208.200.182.20]) by strange.mail.mindspring.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1at9tm1Nu3Nl3oW0 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:42:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from hq.pro-ns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hB80dcTW026480 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:38 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id hB80dcCZ026479 for cypherpunks-list; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:38 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: hq.pro-ns.net: majordom set sender to [EMAIL PROTECTED] using -f Received: from hq.pro-ns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hB80daTW026468 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:36 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id hB80dabs026465 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:36 -0600 (CST) Received: from slack.lne.com (gw.lne.com [209.157.136.81]) by hq.pro-ns.net (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hB80dQom026459 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:31 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Received: from slack.lne.com (slack.lne.com [127.0.0.1]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB80dMTf003847 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-DSS-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:39:22 -0800 Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hB80dMDV003842 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:39:22 -0800 Received: from ak47.algebra.com (algebra.com [216.82.116.230]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB80dGTe003829 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:39:19 -0800 Received: from ak47.algebra.com ([EMAIL PROTECTED] [127.0.0.1]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hB80dGLG031103; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:16 -0600 Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Submit) id hB80dGqU031100; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:16 -0600 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.157]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hB80dELG031089 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 18:39:15 -0600 Received: from user-0ccetrj.cable.mindspring.com ([24.199.119.115] helo=JY09) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AT9Qg-0005IG-00 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sun, 07 Dec 2003 19:39:14 -0500 X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 19:37:26 -0800 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: John Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Old-Subject: Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19 In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19 X-Algebra: http://www.algebra.com>Algebra Approved: LISTMEMBER CPUNK Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: bulk X-Loop: ds.pro-ns.net - And here's Algebra's substantial verbosity: Status: U Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Received: from ak47.algebra.com ([216.82.116.230]) by samuel.mail.atl.earthlink.net (EarthLink SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 1at8UH24t3Nl3pv0 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:06:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ak47.algebra.com ([EMAIL PROTECTED] [127.0.0.1]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hB7LmNLG009486 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:48:23 -0600 Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Submit) id hB7LmNXw009485 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:48:23 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: ak47.algebra.com: majordom set sender to [EMAIL PROTECTED] using -f Received: from slack.lne.com (gw.lne.com [209.157.136.81]) by ak47.algebra.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hB7LmGLG009442 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:48:19 -0600 Received: from slack.lne.com (slack.lne.com [127.0.0.1]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hB7LmDTf002878 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-DSS-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:48:13 -0800 Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by slack.lne.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hB7LmDtF002872 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:48:13 -0800 Received: from slack.lne.com (slack.lne.com [127.0.0.1])
Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19
When I got censored by [EMAIL PROTECTED] a couple of weeks ago I tried to subscribe to these nodes: Algebra Infonex Lne Minder Sunder Pro-ns Openpgp Ccc Subscription was successful only on: Algebra Pro-ns Both of thse provided a "who" response on 11/10/03 of Algebra 122 Pro-ns 14 I get the same messages from Algebra, Pro-ns and Lne, though Lne still refuses mail from me. How many other subscribers are exluded by the censorious and dead nodes is not known. Eric calls his Lne block a result of spam from my provider, to me it's no different than censorship, a perfect imitation of how government justifies its suppression of dissent. Tim didn't mention as a cause of cpunk decline the fucking with the list by shitheads who thought they knew best how to run things, the first goal being censorship of those who didn't behave. Once, Tim was a prime target of such shit and he did a nice job of killing the controllers. Now if you kill the bureaucrats, and the youngsters, for overreaching, or indifference to authority, you got to figure out how to do the dirty work of cleaning up after the masters' spiteful running the country, the firm, the estate, the family, the ideology into the ground. What I like about the ring-in-the-flesh crowd is their pleasure in grossing out the stodgers. Makes me wish I still had that knack instead of only the memories.
Re: Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19
On Sun, 7 Dec 2003, Tim May wrote: > I have several theories/conjectures about what is happening to mailing > lists. > > First, a lot of the younger folks--who used to be some of the fresh > blood for lists like ours--are not users of mailing lists. I expect > some of them don't even know such things exist. For them, IM is the > norm. (And IM is mostly an interpersonal, chat format.) Not true. I personally run several mailing lists with heavy political bents. One in particular, "antisocial" (the name is a play on a post someone made a long time ago) is vibrant and continually growing. But they need to be nurtured - this is the failing of this list. We no longer take care to bring in new blood. We have failed utterly to encourage new ideas. And any new blood which may test the waters with a posting that doesn't follow median doctrine is likely to find themselves and their deviant ideas under heavy attack, rather than discussion. People won't post ideas that conflict with the mainstream (which obviously is different in each unique forum) if these ideas are either dismissed out of hand or attacked ad hominem. > Second, blogs seem to have taken over for many formerly active mailing > lists. Not really. The blogs tend to be more of a "pulpit" that an idea exchange point. > In some of the areas of interest to me, a dozen blogs are > frequently read, including the ones with fairly active followup. And > example is "Lambda the Ultimate," http://lambda.weblogs.com/, just one > of many similar language and programming blogs. Yes, but these suffer from the same malaise of everyone having the same opinion :-( > (Personally, I think much is being lost in the shift away from Usenet Usenet is the perfect example of an inherently hostile arena. Even worse, its a perfect example of what true anarchy really is - usenet has been lost to the disruptors. > and mailing lists towards these blogs. For while follow-ups exist for > many of them, there is always the sense that one is participating in > Dave Winer's blog, or Mitch Kapor's blog, or whatever. Further, many of > the blogs take on a "my daily diary" and "random musings" tone. Precisely. > By the > way, though I read the good blogs, like LtU, I don't post to any of > them.) > > Third, the explosion of mailing lists, Yahoo discussion groups, > "pipermail" groups (such as the E language and "capabilities" folks > tend to use), etc., has made many groups "subcritical." (Something we > began to see half a dozen years ago, when Cypherpunks had a bunch of > close competitors (cryptography, coderpunks, etc.), plus several lists > run by Hettinga, plus a couple by Declan, and so on. Cross-posting to > Usenet newsgroups was bad enough, but cross-posting to many mailing > lists was a major pain. Especially as most lists are closed to > outsiders, who can sometimes posts, sometimes not, but where context > and followups are lost.) > > Fourth, 9/11. A lot of people got very scared of saying what they > think. Totally agree, however, CP has been going "subcritical" since long before 9/11. > Read the archives and note the drop-off in certain kinds of > political discussion. Even some of the former nodes have vanished; my > hunch is that many of those subscribed to the vanished nodes never > bothered to find another node. (I have no idea how many subscribers the > list has. The nodes I know of don't allow listing the subscribers. None of mine will allow it either, with the reason being the protection of the list contributors. > I > would not be surprised if the subscription total has dropped below a > few hundred. And of these, clearly only a few dozen regular posters > come to mind.) > > Fifth, relevant for our list, "crypto is tired." As in Wired's old > "wired/tired" joke column (and of course "Wired" is _especially_ > tired). Not that crypto is less important now than it was, but, > plainly, some things expected have not yet happened, with little > prospect of happening soon. And since the basic ideas have been > discussed so many times before, in so many ways, not much excitement in > discussing "dining cryptographers" for the 7th time, or "how to make > PGP more popular" for the 16th time. CP has always been so much more than crypto. The history here is political, with crypto not always playing a part. Even the non-crypto discussion is almost completely lost. > Sixth, the lack of news about crypto. No prosecutions of a "folk hero" > like Zimmermann to pull in newcomers. No Clipper chip. No bans on > crypto (at least not yet). > > But even if crypto got trendy again, I just don't see the young > students of today flocking to our particular mailing list. Too many > other choices. Probably they'll read someone's daily blog Unless someone goes out of their way to try and introduce them to the list. We regularly solicit for antisocial - especially from areas that are anathema to the posting-c
Decline of the Cypherpunks list...Part 19
On Dec 7, 2003, at 1:25 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote: On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 03:10:04PM +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote: Tim, I AM GETTING TIRED OF SEEING CYPHERPUNKS RESTRICTING WHAT INFORMATION FLOWS AND TO WHERE IT FLOWS... He is correct, of course. One of these days I'm going to get MailMan working, and resurrect cpunx-news. This list shouldn't be drowned in forwards. It's a good way to drown discussion. Not that there is much discussion, the cyherpunk meme doesn't seem to draw fresh blood too effectively. I'm seeing similiar trends across virtually all my mailing lists, so I presume it's the medium itself that it's in decline. Both IRC and IM are of course even worse content killers than email. I have several theories/conjectures about what is happening to mailing lists. First, a lot of the younger folks--who used to be some of the fresh blood for lists like ours--are not users of mailing lists. I expect some of them don't even know such things exist. For them, IM is the norm. (And IM is mostly an interpersonal, chat format.) Second, blogs seem to have taken over for many formerly active mailing lists. In some of the areas of interest to me, a dozen blogs are frequently read, including the ones with fairly active followup. And example is "Lambda the Ultimate," http://lambda.weblogs.com/, just one of many similar language and programming blogs. (Personally, I think much is being lost in the shift away from Usenet and mailing lists towards these blogs. For while follow-ups exist for many of them, there is always the sense that one is participating in Dave Winer's blog, or Mitch Kapor's blog, or whatever. Further, many of the blogs take on a "my daily diary" and "random musings" tone. By the way, though I read the good blogs, like LtU, I don't post to any of them.) Third, the explosion of mailing lists, Yahoo discussion groups, "pipermail" groups (such as the E language and "capabilities" folks tend to use), etc., has made many groups "subcritical." (Something we began to see half a dozen years ago, when Cypherpunks had a bunch of close competitors (cryptography, coderpunks, etc.), plus several lists run by Hettinga, plus a couple by Declan, and so on. Cross-posting to Usenet newsgroups was bad enough, but cross-posting to many mailing lists was a major pain. Especially as most lists are closed to outsiders, who can sometimes posts, sometimes not, but where context and followups are lost.) Fourth, 9/11. A lot of people got very scared of saying what they think. Read the archives and note the drop-off in certain kinds of political discussion. Even some of the former nodes have vanished; my hunch is that many of those subscribed to the vanished nodes never bothered to find another node. (I have no idea how many subscribers the list has. The nodes I know of don't allow listing the subscribers. I would not be surprised if the subscription total has dropped below a few hundred. And of these, clearly only a few dozen regular posters come to mind.) Fifth, relevant for our list, "crypto is tired." As in Wired's old "wired/tired" joke column (and of course "Wired" is _especially_ tired). Not that crypto is less important now than it was, but, plainly, some things expected have not yet happened, with little prospect of happening soon. And since the basic ideas have been discussed so many times before, in so many ways, not much excitement in discussing "dining cryptographers" for the 7th time, or "how to make PGP more popular" for the 16th time. Sixth, the lack of news about crypto. No prosecutions of a "folk hero" like Zimmermann to pull in newcomers. No Clipper chip. No bans on crypto (at least not yet). But even if crypto got trendy again, I just don't see the young students of today flocking to our particular mailing list. Too many other choices. Probably they'll read someone's daily blog One last reason, the most controversial one. When I was 40 I really had no difficulty dealing with the 20-year-olds. They seemed basically a lot like I was when I was their age. But something has changed. Maybe it's me, maybe it's not. But now, at the age of almost 52, I find dealing with most of the people in their 20s I encounter, even at CP meetings, much harder. Maybe it's their usually bald heads (seems many guys in their 20s shave their heads). Maybe it's the rings through their noses and eyebrows and lips and other places (shudder). Maybe it's that openly embrace "geekiness" without actually having a solid foundation in math and physics and such. And probably it's that when I was 40 I was not _that_ much older than the people in their 20s...but now I am older than their own parents! Whatever, I find when I talk to these newcomers with their bald heads, their piercings, their Linux geek talk, I have almost nothing in common with them. And, as many have noted, very few of the "kids" today are libertarians (either small L or large L). This was the fertile ground
Re: Type III Anonymous message
On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 03:10:04PM +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote: > Tim, > > I AM GETTING TIRED OF SEEING CYPHERPUNKS RESTRICTING WHAT INFORMATION > FLOWS AND TO WHERE IT FLOWS... He is correct, of course. One of these days I'm going to get MailMan working, and resurrect cpunx-news. This list shouldn't be drowned in forwards. It's a good way to drown discussion. Not that there is much discussion, the cyherpunk meme doesn't seem to draw fresh blood too effectively. I'm seeing similiar trends across virtually all my mailing lists, so I presume it's the medium itself that it's in decline. Both IRC and IM are of course even worse content killers than email. -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
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If you believe this is spam, click here.To unsubscribe, click here. WkcgJaadGWyvxcLsqOkYUKKeChoFdWCzHfgQFGuMctIaVUSMiD kDOuhQcWVFsYFzDlQJsLWUEevayOmhSWkgRRwtnSzgqEguqwEi IaDMEynDNZkfwUMNmJHabGHSKnNBkRjsrmEwlsAySleOFqbszi TbpauANHBxZkpQXuNInNHFzlTFcvxceQDUryUEGVCfGsvdmJmZ XtfWfybHuZkZpothmNlsjnXpgTTSdGsAzXXfWymQXWqNKjuxxg [135] When Browne settled at Norwich, being then about thirty-six years old, he had already completed the Religio Medici; a desultory collection of observations designed for himself only and a few friends, at all events with no purpose of immediate publication. It had been lying by him for seven years, circulating privately in his own extraordinarily perplexed manuscript, or in manuscript copies, when, in 1642, an incorrect printed version from one of those copies, "much corrupted by transcription at various hands," appeared anonymously. Browne, decided royalist as he was in spite of seeming indifference, connects this circumstance with the unscrupulous use of the press for political purposes, and especially against the king, at that time. Just here a romantic figure comes on the scene. Son of the unfortunate young Everard Digby who perished on the scaffold for some half-hearted participation in the Gunpowder Plot, Kenelm Digby, brought up in the reformed religion, had returned in manhood to the religion of his father. In his intellectual composition he had, in common with Browne, a scientific interest, oddly tinged with both poetry and scepticism: he had also a strong sympathy with religious reaction, and a more than sentimental love for a seemingly vanishing age of faith, which he, for one, would not think of as vanishing. A copy of that surreptitious edition of the Religio Medici found him a prisoner on suspicion of a too active [136] royalism, and with much time on his hands. The Roman Catholic, although, secure in his definite orthodoxy, he finds himself indifferent on many points (on the reality of witchcraft, for instance) concerning which Browne's more timid, personally grounded faith might indulge no scepticism, forced himself, nevertheless, to detect a vein of rationalism in a book which on the whole much attracted him, and hastily put forth his "animadversions" upon it. Browne, with all his distaste for controversy, thus found himself committed to a dispute, and his reply came with the correct edition of the Religio Medici published at last with his name. There have been many efforts to formulate the "religion of the layman," which might be rightly understood, perhaps, as something more than what is called "natural," yet less than ecclesiastical, or "professional" religion. Though its habitual mode of conceiving experience is on a different plane, yet it would recognise the legitimacy of the traditional religious interpretation of that experience, generally and by implication; only, with a marked reserve as to religious particulars, both of thought and language, out of a real reverence or awe, as proper only for a special place. Such is the lay religion, as we may find it in Addison, in Gray, in Thackeray; and there is something of a concession--a concession, on second thoughts--about it. Browne's Religio Medici is designed as the _expression_ of a mind [137] more difficult of belief than that of the mere "layman," as above described; it is meant for the religion of the man of science. Actually, it is something less to the point, in any balancing of the religious against the worldly view of things, than the religion of the layman, as just now defined. For Browne, in spite of his profession of boisterous doubt, has no real difficulties, and his religion, certainly, nothing of the character of a concession. He holds that there has never existed an atheist. Not that he is credulous; but that his religion is only the correlative of himself, his peculiar character and education, a religion of manifold association. For him, the wonders of religion, its supernatural events or agencies, are almost natural facts or processes. "Even in this material fabric, the spirits walk as freely exempt from the affection of time, place and motion, as beyond the extremest circumference." Had not Divine interference designed to raise the dead, nature herself is in act to do it--to lead out the "incinerated soul" from the retreats of her dark laboratory. Certainly Browne has not, like Pascal, made the "great resolution," by the apprehension that it is just in the contrast of the moral world to the world with which science deals that religion finds its proper basis. It is from the homelessness of the world which science analyses so victoriously, its dark unspirituality, wherein the soul he is conscious of seems such a [138] stranger, that Pascal "turns again to his rest," in the conception of a world of wholly reasonable and moral agencies. For Browne, on the contrary, the light is full, design everywhere obvious, its conclusion easy to draw, all small and great things marked
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Title: DineOutFreeToday.com If you believe this is spam, click here.To unsubscribe, click here. zPBIVCjBkZVdqxibbzvByWtfKYaLrknqApzVriWcHsGyqpaRoV TnrNSCltNceBTeqSAiAXKIQQHHFhYuDshvFAxrtLTYMnDCFEkG buPsLWzRDYMGQuBWuzNoKhMWUQYaUIhwDwoPSnhVMtcdndzicN WmujJPzhqTqXPuTEJlsrHEkjhYNhGqudcpMlFMTvgJSwDmANYs EfxpPeNcLTSGwvvJhBVAwCKPyOCycargGoVWTjyeDRlzNhJvif And, in effect, a very delicate and expressive portrait of him does put itself together for the duly meditative reader. In indirect touches of his own work, scraps of faded old letters, what others remembered of his talk, the man's likeness emerges; what he laughed and wept at, [118] his sudden elevations, and longings after absent friends, his fine casuistries of affection and devices to jog sometimes, as he says, the lazy happiness of perfect love, his solemn moments of higher discourse with the young, as they came across him on occasion, and went along a little way with him, the sudden, surprised apprehension of beauties in old literature, revealing anew the deep soul of poetry in things, and withal the pure spirit of fun, having its way again; laughter, that most short-lived of all things (some of Shakespeare's even being grown hollow) wearing well with him. Much of all this comes out through his letters, which may be regarded as a department of his essays. He is an old-fashioned letter-writer, the essence of the old fashion of letter-writing lying, as with true essay-writing, in the dexterous availing oneself of accident and circumstance, in the prosecution of deeper lines of observation; although, just as with the record of his conversation, one loses something, in losing the actual tones of the stammerer, still graceful in his halting, as he halted also in composition, composing slowly and by fits, "like a Flemish painter," as he tells us, so "it is to be regretted," says the editor of his letters, "that in the printed letters the reader will lose the curious varieties of writing with which the originals abound, and which are scrupulously adapted to the subject." Also, he was a true "collector," delighting [119] in the personal finding of a thing, in the colour an old book or print gets for him by the little accidents which attest previous ownership. Wither's Emblems, "that old book and quaint," long-desired, when he finds it at last, he values none the less because a child had coloured the plates with his paints. A lover of household warmth everywhere, of that tempered atmosphere which our various habitations get by men's living within them, he "sticks to his favourite books as he did to his friends," and loved the "town," with a jealous eye for all its characteristics, "old houses" coming to have souls for him. The yearning for mere warmth against him in another, makes him content, all through life, with pure brotherliness, "the most kindly and natural species of love," as he says, in place of the passion of love. Brother and sister, sitting thus side by side, have, of course, their anticipations how one of them must sit at last in the faint sun alone, and set us speculating, as we read, as to precisely what amount of melancholy really accompanied for him the approach of old age, so steadily foreseen; make us note also, with pleasure, his successive wakings up to cheerful realities, out of a too curious musing over what is gone and what remains, of life. In his subtle capacity for enjoying the more refined points of earth, of human relationship, he could throw the gleam of poetry or humour on what seemed common or threadbare; has a care for the [120] sighs, and the weary, humdrum preoccupations of very weak people, down to their little pathetic "gentilities," even; while, in the purely human temper, he can write of death, almost like Shakespeare. And that care, through all his enthusiasm of discovery, for what is accustomed, in literature, connected thus with his close clinging to home and the earth, was congruous also with that love for the accustomed in religion, which we may notice in him. He is one of the last votaries of that old-world sentiment, based on the feelings of hope and awe, which may be described as the religion of men of letters (as Sir Thomas Browne has his Religion of the Physician) religion as understood by the soberer men of letters in the last century, Addison, Gray, and Johnson; by Jane Austen and Thackeray, later. A high way of feeling developed largely by constant intercourse with the great things of literature, and extended in its turn to those matters greater still, this religion lives, in the main retrospectively, in a system of received sentiments and beliefs; received, like those great things of literature and art, in the first instance, on the authority of a long tradition, in the course of which they have linked themselves in a thousand complex ways to the conditions of human life, and no more questioned now than the feeling one
Re: Larry Lessig on ending anonymity through "identity escrow"
I think Declan's got the title wrong - Lessig's discussions that he references aren't about ending anonymity through escrowed pseudonymity - they're about replacing some True-Name-based or linkable applications with pseudonymous ones. For instance, one-use credit card numbers instead of regular numbers, which not only makes it harder for the merchant to do credit card fraud, but also makes it harder for marketers to trace your activities, even though they can go back to the credit card company and get that information. A similar application, which we'll unfortunately probably never see, is to replace the SSN with a pile of one-use tax ID numbers. That way, instead of giving everybody who needs to collect taxes on your account the same SSN, which they can then use to link lots of records together, you'd be giving each one a single number that only you and the IRS can coordinate. An application that people use all the time is disposable email addresses. Sure, you can use [EMAIL PROTECTED] every time you give some web site your address or send email to somebody you haven't talked to before, but eventually spammers get that and it's too annoying; an alternative is to use free email accounts when you think you might get spammed. Hotmail was the canonical source, though yahoo's easier to use these days. One of Declan's fellow columnists, Annalee Newitz, uses a different username at her domain on each of her newspaper columns; presumably some of them become spam targets and get trashed eventually.
