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Re: Quantum Loop Gravity Be For Whitey
On Jan 14, 2004, at 3:51 PM, bgt wrote: On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:15, cubic-dog wrote: On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, bgt wrote: ... Anyway... "be productive or be deported" does not constitute I don't think I said that, you put it in quotes, implying I did. It's an okay paraphrase though, so we'll take it like that. Yes, it was intended as a paraphrase. More like I said, without regard to what you DEALT for, the is no impetus on the "man" to pay what was agreed to. If you don't like it, you will be deported. This does a nice job of creating For currently illegal immigrants, you're right: the contract (the agreement to do x work for y money is a contract, however informal) is illegal and so unenforceable. This leaves these workers open to theft by "stiffing" as you put it. Most workers are paid bimonthly, and many are paid weekly. Some day laborers are even paid daily. This makes the "float" a maximum of a couple of weeks, and more likely a week or less. Any laborer who has not been paid can walk away and be out the week or less in pay. (Personally, I would not want to be an employer who stiffed a Mexican...one might find one's tires slashed or one's daughter's throat slashed ear to ear...or just a bullet in the dark. This kind of "stiffing" such as you two are debating almost never happens, for various good reasons. The guest worker program will legalize these immigrants (for a period of time), so the contract will be legal and become enforceable. Why do you think the guest worker program will make it worse in this regard for currently illegal immigrants? This is the weakest objection to this program I've heard yet. The wholesale opening of the door to those who "cut in line" (ahead of those from England, Denmark, Romania, India, etc. who waited patiently in line by submitting their immigration requests) is deplorable. Either open the borders or not, but surely don't reward those who cut in line. Oh, and the march of 2.5 million Mexicans and Latins from the south is already underway...they got the message the last time when the Simpson-Mazzoli "one time amnesty, just this one time!" happened, and millions more arrived. Now that the new Mexican immigration is happening, several million more will arrive. By the way, there is no acceptable hospital in the region near me because "legal but won't pay their bills" Mexicans have utterly swamped the W*ts*nv*ll* Community Hospital. It is unable to collect from those who show up at its emergency room (and must be treated, by law) that it is now running short on so many things that it is not safe to use. (They'll probably threaten to sue me, so I'll disguise the above name.) I'd favor letting all in who want to get in, provided nobody demands that I pay for any services for them. Any services, not just "few" services. There are a couple of billion in the world who would gladly come to America if the borders were open...I'm not exaggerating at all. Between 1 and 2 billion, at least. Let them come. But let them starve when 950 million of them find no work and a limit to charity by the do-gooder minority. Let piles of their corpses fertilize our crops...it's why God made bulldozers. --Tim May "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone. I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout" --Unknown Usenet Poster
Re: Quantum Loop Gravity Be For Whitey
On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 14:15, cubic-dog wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, bgt wrote: > > ... Anyway... "be productive or be deported" does not constitute > > I don't think I said that, you put it in quotes, implying I did. > It's an okay paraphrase though, so we'll take it like that. Yes, it was intended as a paraphrase. > More like I said, without regard to what you DEALT for, the is > no impetus on the "man" to pay what was agreed to. If you don't > like it, you will be deported. This does a nice job of creating For currently illegal immigrants, you're right: the contract (the agreement to do x work for y money is a contract, however informal) is illegal and so unenforceable. This leaves these workers open to theft by "stiffing" as you put it. The guest worker program will legalize these immigrants (for a period of time), so the contract will be legal and become enforceable. Why do you think the guest worker program will make it worse in this regard for currently illegal immigrants? This is the weakest objection to this program I've heard yet. > The ditch diggers in question, were -as a group- being paid > (I asked) $500 to put in that run of conduit. As there > were six of them, and it took a couple of days, well, do the > math. > > Much cheaper than renting a ditchwitch and operator. > > They had done this before, and would do it again. Some runs go > better than others, and I'll be some days they might actually > make as much as a 7/11 clerk. But not many. If both parties agreed and adhered to these terms, I see no problem with any of that. Employers and employees should be free to negotiate their own terms without the coercive interference by the State (via minimum wage, overtime, maximum work week, etc regulations). > What happens when the "man" arbitrarily decides to stiff them > from their payment? > > Will the labor department come to mitigate? Or will immigration > come to deport? > > What's more likely under the proposed "guest worker" rule? See above for my answers to this. > > for substantially less than you. In fact, it is only Free people > > who can sell their product (including their own labor) for whatever > > they want (and, obviously, that someone will pay). > > Who can sell their labour for whatever they want? > I am only aware of folks who can sell their labour for what > the market will bear. Oh please, did you not read the last 6 words of my sentence? "(and, obviously, that someone will pay)" means "what the market will bear". Of *course* there has to be a willing buyer to complete the transaction. --bgt
Re: Quartering soldiers
On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 03:59:35PM -0600, John Washburn wrote: > I seem to recall a case where a land owner used the third amendment to > refuse and block rent-free occupation of his land by the Border Patrol. > His land was bounded on the south by the Mexican/US border. > > This case (mid-70's)already makes the generalization from military to > agents of the state. > > I will try to find the citation. If found it will be posted. Reminds me of my favorite billboard ever! "Support Our Troops... At Home and Abroad" http://www.nycpba.org/tadam/03/tadam-030428-billboard.html | While the U.S. military is being asked to act more like police officers, | collaring bank robbers and otherwise keeping the peace in Baghdad and | other Iraqi locales, we police officers have to think and act more like | the military as we continue to fight the war against terrorism. The bond | between wearers of the uniform both military and police has never been | stronger. This is why we launched this outdoor display advertising | campaign. And remember, you can't spell Troops without OOPS!
Re: Quantum Loop Gravity Be For Whitey
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004, bgt wrote: > > On Wed, 2004-01-14 at 00:20, bgt wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 10:48, cubic-dog wrote: > > > > in force, because, we finally get slave, indentured servants who > > > > will either take the 90 cents and hour or be deported. > > > > > > This kind of rhetoric is extremely irritating. If they can > > > be deported, they are neither slaves or indentured servants. > > ... Anyway... "be productive or be deported" does not constitute I don't think I said that, you put it in quotes, implying I did. It's an okay paraphrase though, so we'll take it like that. More like I said, without regard to what you DEALT for, the is no impetus on the "man" to pay what was agreed to. If you don't like it, you will be deported. This does a nice job of creating a new, even lower class. It substantially lowers the bar for wage negotiation. The US Department of Labor has already published guides for business outlining how to avoid paying overtime. http://www.thetip.org/art_689_icle.html This new work of the Bush, just really helps cap the issue. The ditch diggers in question, were -as a group- being paid (I asked) $500 to put in that run of conduit. As there were six of them, and it took a couple of days, well, do the math. Much cheaper than renting a ditchwitch and operator. They had done this before, and would do it again. Some runs go better than others, and I'll be some days they might actually make as much as a 7/11 clerk. But not many. What happens when the "man" arbitrarily decides to stiff them from their payment? Will the labor department come to mitigate? Or will immigration come to deport? What's more likely under the proposed "guest worker" rule? > slavery, and neither does the fact that someone is willing to work > for substantially less than you. In fact, it is only Free people > who can sell their product (including their own labor) for whatever > they want (and, obviously, that someone will pay). Who can sell their labour for whatever they want? I am only aware of folks who can sell their labour for what the market will bear. As long as they only want the status quo, well, then that's fine. When the market will only bear 90p, Well, making the note on the townhouse is gonna be kinda tricky, ain't it? > --bgt
RE: Quartering soldiers
I seem to recall a case where a land owner used the third amendment to refuse and block rent-free occupation of his land by the Border Patrol. His land was bounded on the south by the Mexican/US border. This case (mid-70's)already makes the generalization from military to agents of the state. I will try to find the citation. If found it will be posted. -Original Message- From: bgt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Quartering soldiers On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 12:48, Tim May wrote: > On Jan 13, 2004, at 8:41 AM, Steve Schear wrote: > > > At 11:23 PM 1/12/2004, Tim May wrote: > >> "But if I own a computer and I rent out accounts to others and the FBI > >> comes to me and says "We are putting a Carnivore computer in your > >> place," how else can this be interpreted _except_ as a violation of > >> the Third?" > >> > The pure form of the Third (in this abstract sense) is when government > knocks on one's door and says "Here is something you must put inside > your house." For this to make sense, we have to interpret Soldier to mean not just agents of the armed forces (military), it has to mean law-enforcement as well. I can accept the idea of abstracting the Third beyond humans to software/hardware agents, etc... but I'm not so sure about the military vs. law enforcement distinction. Can anyone point me to some founder's writings that may help support the interpretation of Soldier to mean any agent of the government? Even if we did extend the Third to mean law-enforcement... since Congress has repeatedly ceded their authority to determine when the country was "in a time of war" to the Executive, and as such we are now in a perpetual time of war, any quartering has to be prescribed by law, rather than prohibited outright. For these reasons, I have to agree with Tim's earlier referenced post, to the effect of "the only solutions now available are Technology and Terrorism." > By the way, there have been a bunch of cases where residents of a > neighborhood were ordered to leave so that SWAT teams could be in their > houses to monitor a nearby house where a hostage situation had > developed. (It is possible that in each house they occupied they > received uncoerced permission to occupy the houses, but I don't think > this was always the case; however, I can't cite a concrete case of > this. Maybe Lexis has one.) > > If this takeover of houses to launch a raid is not a "black letter law" > case of the government quartering troops in residences, nothing is. > Exigent circumstance, perhaps, but so was King George's need to quarter > his troops. I think someone in this case would have a much better argument for a Fourth amendment violation (unreasonable seizure of their home, albeit temporarily), though probably, today, still unsuccessful in a court. --bgt
Hand-Held Device for DVD Movies Raises Legal Issues
Hand-Held Device for DVD Movies Raises Legal Issues PARIS -- Hollywood's bid to control how its movies are copied, stored and played is being tested by an unlikely source: a former French oil engineer in an out-of-the-way Paris suburb, Wednesday's Wall Street Journal reported. Henri Crohas's company, Archos SA, makes a small hand-held device, like a bulky Palm Pilot, that can record and then play back scores of movies, TV shows and digital photos on its color screen or a TV set. The gadget -- which in effect does to movies what Apple Computer Inc.'s iPod does to music -- already has sold 100,000 units world-wide during the past six months, beating the big consumer electronics makers to the U.S. market. Archos's device, which costs about $500 to $900 depending on the model, ignores an anticopying code found on a majority of prerecorded DVDs. That means consumers can plug the Archos device into a DVD player and transfer a movie to it. Users also can transfer recorded TV programs and digital music files to the Archos device. The Archos uses a video compression standard called MPEG-4 to cram as many as 320 hours of video at near-DVD quality onto its hard drive, the company says -- the equivalent of 160 two-hour movies. A second kind of anticopying protection thwarts users from recording a playable copy of a DVD movie onto the hard-drive of a personal computer and then onto the Archos. But videos can be transferred from the Archos to a PC, where they could be burned onto a DVD or sent over the Internet, though that would likely violate copyright laws. The gadgets alone aren't likely to spawn a Napster-style boom in online film piracy. Already, scofflaws with a PC equipped with a DVD player and special software can rip off films and share them over the Internet. And the process is slow: It takes as long to copy a DVD movie to the Archos device as it does to watch the movie. Still, Mr. Crohas and his 150-employee team at Archos ( pronounced AR kos) present a fresh headache for Hollywood because they show how the industry's campaign to keep control of its films could be challenged by small players. Wall Street Journal Staff Reporters Kevin J. Delaney and Bruce Orwall contributed to this article.
Re: spoofing Tomboy Ridge
Major Variola (ret) wrote: At 12:21 PM 1/12/04 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There was a mildly publicized incident in another part of Brooklyn recently where someone was ticketed after their child's balloon popped in public. I recently asked a NYC friend if he had popped off firecrackers in NY Square recently. He hadn't, spoilsport. Over here in Eurotrash statist London people set off fireworks all over the place, for all sorts of excuses. I probably hear or see some sort of firework party about once a week, sometimes just in someone's back garden. And real ones too, rockets & mortars, not namby-pamby "firecrackers". Also sometimes a big public affair - it seems to be the current fashion to use lots of fireworks when a construction project is finished. In the weeks around our big bonfire celebrations in November kids throw them in the streets for a laugh. Though they are getting more available at other times of the year now. The other week I noticed two firework shops within a few yards of each other in leafy north London suburb of Barnet. Some nanny-staters (usually conservatives who fear teenagers and think that all proles should be locked in their hutches at night watching TV and eatng junk food) write to the newspapers and demand that fireworks should be banned. The government has pathetically caved in to the extent that they intend to introduce local bans on setting off fireworks after 11pm. I don't think that public opinion would hold with the kind of restrictions on fireworks that many US states seem to have.
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Re: Quantum Loop Gravity Be For Whitey
On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 10:48, cubic-dog wrote: > in force, because, we finally get slave, indentured servants who > will either take the 90 cents and hour or be deported. This kind of rhetoric is extremely irritating. If they can be deported, they are neither slaves or indentured servants. If they voluntarily came to this country, and voluntarily accepted 90 cents/hr,
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