date:20040703

At 09:34 PM 7/2/04 -0400, Dave Emery wrote:
frequency of 915 mhz at a power a little under 1 mw (0 dbm).

Meaning one can have a lot of fun while tossing one's change
into the funnel as the privacy-whores cruise by...

Diamond dust in the machine...

Re: China about to begin realtime censoring SMS messages

At 06:25 PM 7/3/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
automatically send SMS messages to a list of numbers. The government
already keeps statistics on number of messages sent at time period from
a
single number, and alerts the officials when it's above the limit and
then
the content is checked manually.

What you need then is also a telephone tree to do mass distributions
(randomly time-delayed) without having any one source go over quota.

Could be phone meshed or use computer SMS I/O.

Wouldn't it be horrible if some otherwise benign, quiet worm infected
computers to implement this?  Zombies aren't just for porn  pills,
they can help spread the newz.

Tyler's Education

At 07:18 PM 7/3/04 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
I dunno...as an ex-optical engineer/physicst, I'm sceptical about this
whole
scary tempest bullcrap. Even if it can be made to work fairly
reliably, I
suspect deploying it is extremely costly.

So?   The State can print money...  And people are cheap.

And digital edges are sharp, in the Ghz even when the clock is in the
Mhz.
And boxes need ventilation slots.  Any questions?

Look at eg what NASA can do re: finding fireflies on the moon.
Now drop one A.

Or replace ASA with RO.


Hey--if they want me that bad these
days, it would probably be cheaper just to send the van and beat
whatever
they need out of me.

That lets you know they're listening.  Or they have to dispose of the
body,
which lets your colleages know they're onto y'all.

You really need to get up to speed on your Tradecraft, friend.

GPS, phones, toothing

At 07:23 PM 7/3/04 -0500, bgt wrote:

With a few keystrokes on a wireless phone, a m-mode subscriber is
given the approximate geographic location of his friend, such as a
street intersection. The two friends can then exchange messages,  call
the other, or choose a place to meet from a directory of nearby
restaurants, bars, coffee shops, and bookstores.

I'm pretty sure they don't use GPS for this... I think they do some
form of triangulation from the cell towers.

The cool thing about 'toothing' is that the party you're arranging to
mutually stimulate is within a finite physical range.  An amusing
unintended consequence.

Xuwxdvt D0n't pay m0re.

2004-07-03 Thread mose lacroix



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kokkonen9iindaba 01nikaweza.

Re: Tyler's Education


On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 And digital edges are sharp, in the Ghz even when the clock is in the
 Mhz.

How much do the spread spectrum clock feature on the modern motherboards 
help here?

 And boxes need ventilation slots.

Not necessarily. There are other ways of heat transfer. A good way could 
be water cooling for transport of the heat from the CPU and other parts to 
a massive metal heatsink that's the part of the case, with an optional fan 
on its outside. Voila, water cooling is not only for case mod freakz 
anymore.

 Any questions?

I expect much bigger problem in the attached cables and connectors. How to 
solve this?

Re: Tyler's Education


On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 At 07:18 PM 7/3/04 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
 I dunno...as an ex-optical engineer/physicst, I'm sceptical about this
 whole
 scary tempest bullcrap. Even if it can be made to work fairly
 reliably, I
 suspect deploying it is extremely costly.

Scary or not, I can attest from first hand personal knowledge that this
type of monitoring is in active use by the US, and has been for over 4
years (although it's only been mainstream for ~2).


-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out
  about them.

  Osama Bin Laden

Re: China about to begin realtime censoring SMS messages


On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 At 06:25 PM 7/3/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
 automatically send SMS messages to a list of numbers. The government 
 already keeps statistics on number of messages sent at time period from 
 a single number, and alerts the officials when it's above the limit and 
 then the content is checked manually.
 
 What you need then is also a telephone tree to do mass distributions
 (randomly time-delayed) without having any one source go over quota.

I suppose it's what Falun Gong started doing in reaction to the measure.

 Could be phone meshed or use computer SMS I/O.

If the gateways are present.

 Wouldn't it be horrible if some otherwise benign, quiet worm infected
 computers to implement this?  Zombies aren't just for porn  pills,
 they can help spread the newz.

Or act as an onion-routing anonymizing network. It's a bit drastic way of 
enforcing privacy means, but it's always better to have a nuke up one's 
sleeve in case the stakes would get way too high.

I expect it to happen in couple years. Most likely it will be born either 
in some overtly restrictive regime of Far or Middle East (including but 
not limited to China), or as a reaction to some drastic measure-to-happen 
in the Demagocratic West.

software

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Re: UBL is George Washington

2004-07-03 Thread Howie Goodell

OK -- some comments.

First, IMHO one confusing and perhaps confused post; I'm not sure I
get the point.

Second, to be specific, bin Laden isn't George Washington, but in at
least one respect he is LIKE others who struggled to keep their
countries from being dominated by foreigners. George Washington was
one such leader.  Vlad the Impaler was another (for the
history-challenged, this original for the legendary Count Dracula
temporarily saved Romania from being overrun by the Ottoman Turks, by
massacring hundreds of thousands of them, mostly by impaling them on
sharpened stakes.)  Mahatma Gandhi was another.  I think Vlad the
Impaler was Gandhi or vice-versa is about as apt a comparison as
Washington and bin Laden.

For starters, I think the use of terrorism is a moral a distinction
worth making.  Murdering thousands of civilians is not the same thing
as attacking enemy troops.  (To be consistent, the plane that hit the
Pentagon was not terrorism, but a military attack with civilian
collateral damage.)

Finally, while I (and John Kerry) agree that independence from Mideast
oil is a wiser goal than our current slavish devotion to the Saudis,
or military domination of the whole area, I think isolationism in the
age of the Internet is absurd.   The 3-mile limit was the range of
cannonballs, and ABMs are about as useful against many threats we
already face.  Like it or not, we Americans are part of one planet,
and we had better get better at it than we've been lately.

Howie Goodell

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:16:32 -0700, Major Variola (ret) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 At 09:58 PM 7/1/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
 Submitted for comment :-)
 
   ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you
 do
   not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks
 out
   about them.
 
   Osama Bin Laden
 
 UBL's morals, which he unfortunately gets from a book (being a smart
 guy, he could derive them himself like any half-cluefull atheist),
 are largely convergent with the pre-Judaic/Xian culture the Moslems
 forked a few hundred years ago.  (And what, Haiwatha rooted the
 tree some time ago?)  Ie, as the Gadsen flag says, Don't tread
 on me.   However, this is contrary to the methods of colonial
 agents, eg. Romans, Brits, and Yanks.  Where yanks includes
 neocons.
 
 At this point I will quote the reluctant general,
 Trade with all, make treaties with none, and beware of foreign
 entanglements.
 -George Washington
 Where you can replace all with oil and none with Israel.  Etc.
 
 Personally I think North America can be energy sufficient (nuke  coal
 sands)
 but this is an engineering/political issue.  Morally I think our
 influence stops
 within 3 miles of our coasts, and as high as out ABMs can reach.
 
 E3-I: This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by UML's 
 antivirus scanning services.
 
 


-- 
Howie Goodell  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://goodL.org
Hardware control  Info Visualization  User interface
UMass Lowell Computer Science Doctoral Candidate

Re: Tyler's Education

2004-07-03 Thread Dave Emery

On Sat, Jul 03, 2004 at 09:41:44PM -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
 On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
 
  At 07:18 PM 7/3/04 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
  I dunno...as an ex-optical engineer/physicst, I'm sceptical about this
  whole
  scary tempest bullcrap. Even if it can be made to work fairly
  reliably, I
  suspect deploying it is extremely costly.
 
 Scary or not, I can attest from first hand personal knowledge that this
 type of monitoring is in active use by the US, and has been for over 4
 years (although it's only been mainstream for ~2).

Would you care to comment on any technical or other details ?

Tempest monitoring of raster scan CRTs has been around for
a long long time... but most current LCD displays are much less vulnerable
as pixels are switched in parallel (and of course not painted at high
speeds allowing optical monitoring).  But many video cards generate
the rasterized stuff anyway... and use that interface to talk to
the LCD monitor.

Tempest monitoring of energy on communications lines and power
lines related to internal decrypted traffic has been around since
before the Berlin tunnel... and used effectively.  But the heyday
of this was the mechanical crypto and mechanical Teletype era...
where sparking contacts switched substantial inductive loads.

Tempest monitoring of CPU and system behavior is a newer trick
in most cases if it is effective at all in typical situations.

Obviously Tempest monitoring of copper wire ethernet LAN traffic
is possible.   Wireless LANs, of course, aren't a Tempest issue.

Perhaps some keyboards radiate detectable keystroke related
energy...

But given the current statist tendencies here and elsewhere, it
would not surprise me at all to hear that any and all techniques for
surveillance anyone has shown to be effective are likely in active
use - there is money, interest, and a great lowering of inhibitions.
And certainly there has been more than enough open discussion of Tempest
type side channel attacks, unlikely the folks behind the curtain have
just ignored all of it...

On the other hand the cost, complexity and sophistication of
the gear required to extract information at useful ranges is still
daunting compared to other methods of obtaining the same information
(such as black bag jobs with disk copiers and use of trojans to capture
passphrases).


-- 
   Dave Emery N1PRE,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493

Find a lender that will cater to your needs

2004-07-03 Thread Need money for bills













Here you go







Rand





Later,
maybe







image001.gif

Refinance

2004-07-03 Thread Refinance













Here you go







Rand





Later,
maybe







image001.gif

Re: Tyler's Education

At 04:35 AM 7/4/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 And digital edges are sharp, in the Ghz even when the clock is in
the
 Mhz.

How much do the spread spectrum clock feature on the modern
motherboards
help here?

They do complicate things.  But I bet their spread-spectrum jitter
is derived from a PRNG.  All your PRNGs are belong to us.  'Specially
because you can just buy them and either analyze their output, or
strip the layers and get back to the Verilog.

 And boxes need ventilation slots.

Not necessarily.

Indeed Centaur/Via's x86 w/ crypto is advertized as fanless

There are other ways of heat transfer.  A good way could
be water cooling for transport of the heat from the CPU and other parts
to
a massive metal heatsink that's the part of the case, with an optional
fan
on its outside. Voila, water cooling is not only for case mod freakz
anymore.

Just put the ventilated box in a bigger box and use some steel
wool in the ductwork to the outside...

 Any questions?

I expect much bigger problem in the attached cables and connectors. How
to
solve this?

Shielding.  Shielded room.  Shielded building.

Basic idea: electro-magnetic disturbances penetrate only a short
distance into
conductors.

Folks who deal with low noise amplifiers deal with this all the time.
Ground loops.
Faraday cages.  Low voltage differential signalling.  Grounded thin
metal layer
over your LCD display.

I once worked for a chipmaker and they had a metal room.  Horrible
ventilation.   Copper gaskets on all the seams.  You could probe a chip
in there, with a microscope and micromanipulators.  But they also had a
PC which kinda nulled out the RFI issue. However that PC's output would
not have escaped.  The power cables from
the outside to inside are an issue too.

As Schneier says, pros go after people, not tech; which is not to say
you
can ignore RF tracking if you're a target.  I don't think you can fish
with
van Ecyk (sp?) tech, although wardriving/flying sorta counts, except
that
those are intentional emitters.

If I promise you a green card or citizenship, and give you a grand,
will you install this gizmo between the keyboard and computer for me
when you're cleaning the office?  (Assuming you're an 'illegal' working
for shit wages and the Suit has credentials, or cash, or both.  Ask
Nicky Scarfo about this..)

Or plug a camoflaged 802.11blah AP into a RJ-45 and listen from the
van...
(Succeptible to sweeps, but how often are they done?  And real pros use
bursty bugs that aren't broadcasting all the time, eg in the woodwork
of the State Dept.)

Re: Tyler's Education


On Sun, 4 Jul 2004, Dave Emery wrote:

   Would you care to comment on any technical or other details ?

I do not have the detailed technical details I would have liked - I did
ask some of these types of questions and received little more
than careful decline to answers.

What I do know is that this type of monitoring is being done on a regular,
although limited scale, in FISA proceedings.  The targets are generally
CRT emissions, and the distance between target and acquisition gear is
under .5 miles - still a shocking range which I was totally unprepared
for.  I engaged one of the operators in a discussion about the tempest
resistant typefaces, and he was unaware of them.  Food for thought...

Interestingly, I have had more than one report of aural acquistion of
typists keystrokes being used to attempt to calculate the content of a
short keysequence (I assume a password is what was meant by short
keysequence).  These reports indicated poor, but occasionally lucky
results.  I have also been told that there is a broadcasting keyboard
cable inline device which is in wide use (this is pretty easy to do, but
requires blackbagging - something that was a lot more limited prior to
9/11).


-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out
  about them.

  Osama Bin Laden

Re: Tyler's Education

2004-07-03 Thread Yeoh Yiu

Thomas Shaddack [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  And boxes need ventilation slots.
 
 Not necessarily. There are other ways of heat transfer. A good way could 
 be water cooling for transport of the heat from the CPU and other parts to 
 a massive metal heatsink that's the part of the case, with an optional fan 
 on its outside. Voila, water cooling is not only for case mod freakz 
 anymore.
 
  Any questions?
 
 I expect much bigger problem in the attached cables and connectors. How to 
 solve this?

Optic fibre.

Re: GPS, phones, toothing

2004-07-03 Thread Roy M. Silvernail

On Sat, 2004-07-03 at 22:28, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 The cool thing about 'toothing' is that the party you're arranging to
 mutually stimulate is within a finite physical range.  An amusing
 unintended consequence.

Not so unintended if you ask me.  The chief drawback of semi-anon
methods of negotiating assignations is the lack of geographical data. 
Certain adult telephone chat services suffer from aggregating widely
strewn patrons.  A patron in Cincinnati may discover suddenly that the
object of his/her pursuit is actually in Nashville, hardly a quick
drive.  I think toothing has grown popular *because* of the proximity
limitations.  One has a reasonable assurance that the object of pursuit
is close enough to close escrow, as Lenny Nero would say.
-- 
Roy M. Silvernail is [EMAIL PROTECTED], and you're not
Progress, like reality, is not optional. - R. A. Hettinga
SpamAssassin-procmail-/dev/null-bliss
http://www.rant-central.com

China about to begin realtime censoring SMS messages

Mass-sending of SMS messages in China is a popular channel of spreading
alternative, government-unsanctioned news. Used eg. by the Falun Gong
group, to spread the news about SARS, and probably in numerous other
cases. Some phones are even directly equipped with the functions to
automatically send SMS messages to a list of numbers. The government
already keeps statistics on number of messages sent at time period from a
single number, and alerts the officials when it's above the limit and then
the content is checked manually. Mentioned Falun Gong news campaigns
suffer from this.

The new system, delayed by technological problems probably caused by the
sheer volume of data, will scan the messages for keywords, keep logs of
suspect ones, and automatically alert police.

According to me, a partial solution of the problem could be deployment of
encrypted messaging. The SMS standard, 160-character messages, doesn't
offer enough space to fully use PKI (though we could sacrifice some
message space - then we could afford 128 bits of key and 128 bits of HMAC,
which is total of 32 characters, or maybe even use reduced HMAC of only
half size as in this threat model we don't need the message integrity as
much as denying the adversary access to the content, 64 bit hash could be
enough). We can sacrifice also signing the message, or give the choice of
signature vs additional content length (the signature is the message hash
encrypted with the sender's private key, which is about another 128 bits;
we could perhaps use only 64-bit of signature in this threat model). We
can sacrifice the identification of sender/receiver keys (or more
accurately, we can't even afford it in so short message space), but the
GSM SMS standard has the sender phone number as part of the message, which
can serve as identificator of the sender's key for eventual message
signature check.

Contemporary cellphones tend to have Java in them, and should have enough
horsepower for 1024-bit RSA and 128-bit AES.

However, according to my consultant, there is a problem with most of the
cellphones; Java on them runs in sandbox, so they can only send the
messages (and even that only when they have access to messaging API), and
there is no access to message inbox. So you can merrily encrypt, but the
receiver then won't decrypt it. There is a solution, though - use a phone
with OpenAPI, eg. running Symbian, Linux, or (*shudder*) WinCE as its OS,
but these are so far in the higher end of price spectrum. I hoped it will
be possible to implement with already widely deployed cheap technology. :(

Another hope lies in the advent of MMS, expensive now but bound to become
a standard bulk commodity service tomorrow, which offer much bigger space
(up to 64 or even 100 kbyte per message). Same problem as above applies.

Then all the adversary can get is the pattern of traffic of the messages
instead of their content. (And the message content too, but only when
seizing the recipient's private key - I am not sure if we can avoid this
in this scenario, without resorting to using one-time pads and using them
correctly, or without using a direct handset-to-handeset connection,
perhaps through a proxy, with a DH key exchange. The proxy could be very
beneficial here, even for the traffic analysis purposes, if combined with
onion routing.)

-
Yahoo News:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=storycid=516u=/ap/20040702/ap_on_re_as/china_mobile_phone_surveillance_3printer=1

BBC News:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3859403.stm

The Register:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/02/china_text_snoop/

Slashdot discussion:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/03/0035224

EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

2004-07-03 Thread Dave Emery

Having been inspired by some subversive comments on cypherpunks,
I actually looked up the signaling format on the EZ-Pass toll
transponders used throughout the Northeast.  (On the Mass Pike, and most
roads and bridges in NYC and a number of other places around here).

They are the little square white plastic devices that one 
attaches to the center of one's windshield near the mirror and which
exchange messages with an interrogator in the FAST LANE that debits
the tolls from an account refreshed by a credit card (or other forms of
payment).   They allow one to sail through the toll booths at about
15-20 mph without stopping and avoid the horrible nuisance of digging
out the right change while rolling along at 70 mph in heavy traffic.

Turns out they use Manchester encoded on-off keying (EG old
fashioned pulsed rf  modulation) at 500 kilobits/second on a carrier
frequency of 915 mhz at a power a little under 1 mw (0 dbm).

The 915 mhz is time shared - the units are interrogated by being
exposed to enough 915 mhz pulsed energy to activate a broadband video
detector looking at energy after a 915 mhz SAW filter (presumably around
-20 dbm or so).  They are triggered to respond by a 20 us pulse and will
chirp in response to between a 10 and 30 us pulse.   Anything longer and
shorter and they will not respond.

The response comes about 100-150 us after the pulse and consists
of a burst of 256 bits followed by a 16 bit CRC.  No present idea what
preamble or post amble is present, but I guess finding this out merely
requires playing with a transponder and DSO/spectrum analyzer.

Following the response but before the next interrogation the
interrogator can optionally send a write burst which also presumably
consists of 256 bits and CRC.

Both the interrogators and transponders collect two valid
(correct) CRC bursts on multiple interrogations and compare bit for bit
before they decide they have seen a valid message.

Apparently an EEPROM in the thing determines the partition
between fixed bits set at the factory (eg the unit ESN) and bits that
can get written into the unit by the interrogators.   This is intended
to allow interrogators at on ramps to write into the unit the ramp ID
for units at off ramps to use to compute the toll... (possibilities for
hacking here are obvious for the criminally inclined - one hopes the
system designers were thoughtful and used some kind of keyed hash).

No mention is made of encryption or challenge response
authentication but I guess that may or may not be part of the design
(one would think it had better be, as picking off the ESN should be duck
soup with suitable gear if not encrypted).

But what I have concluded is that it should be quite simple
to detect a response from one's transponder and activate a LED or
beeper, and hardly difficult to decode the traffic and display it
if it isn't encrypted.   A PIC and some simple rf hardware ought
to do the trick, even one of those LED flashers that detect cellphone
energy might prove to work.

Perhaps someone more paranoid (or subversive) than I am will
follow up and actually build such a monitor and report whether there
are any interogations at OTHER than the expected places...

-- 
   Dave Emery N1PRE,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493

Re: [IP] more on more on E-mail intercept ruling - good grief!! (fwd from dave@farber.net)

2004-07-03 Thread Tyler Durden

I dunno...as an ex-optical engineer/physicst, I'm sceptical about this whole 
scary tempest bullcrap. Even if it can be made to work fairly reliably, I 
suspect deploying it is extremely costly. In contrast, the main benefit of 
CALEA is that they can merely provision their copy of a circuit to go back 
to VA or wherever. They can be eavesdropping while surfin porn all without 
leaving their desk and cup of coffee. Hey--if they want me that bad these 
days, it would probably be cheaper just to send the van and beat whatever 
they need out of me.

Actually, I suspect that Tempest is some kind of smokescreen...Don't bother 
encrypting because we have this super-technology called tempest that can 
read your mind anyway.

-TD

From: Sunder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Roy M. Silvernail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [IP] more on  more on E-mail intercept ruling - good   grief!! 
   (fwd from [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 16:15:59 -0400 (edt)

 The Tempest argument is a stretch, only because you're not actually
 recovering the information from the phosphor itself.  But the Pandora
 argument is well taken.
Actually there is optical tempest now that works by watching the flicker
of a CRT.  Point is actually even more moot since most monitors are now
LCD based, etc. so there's no raster line scanning the display, etc...

_
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups  now 2 months 
FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/

Re: For Liars and Loafers, Cellphones Offer an Alibi

2004-07-03 Thread bgt

On Jun 26, 2004, at 23:56, J.A. Terranson wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
Do any models let YOU decide to send your location to ANOTHER
phone?
Mine, an Samsung I330 PDA/Phone (actually a rebranded Handspring) 
allows
you to selectively *disable* non-lea queries.  Based upon this, I do 
not
believe that the system is broadcast-based, but rather operates solely
upon a query-response model.

 Do any models even let YOU know your OWN approx location
(to within that 100m Fedfascist standard)?
Mine does not, but I understand that there are models now coming into 
the
market which do.
I'm a little late to this thread, sorry...
ATT m-mode models have had this kind of functionality for quite awhile.
http://www.mobileinfo.com/news_2002/Issue25/ATT_Finder.htm
With a few keystrokes on a wireless phone, a m-mode subscriber is  
given the approximate geographic location of his friend, such as a  
street intersection. The two friends can then exchange messages,  call 
the other, or choose a place to meet from a directory of nearby  
restaurants, bars, coffee shops, and bookstores.

I'm pretty sure they don't use GPS for this... I think they do some 
form of triangulation from the cell towers.

--bgt

other mailing list recommendations ?

2004-07-03 Thread Joe Schmoe

Can anyone recommend any other mailing lists besides
cypherpunks to lurk on / read ?

The aspects of cypherpunks that I value are the strong
and opinionated stances on civil liberty issues, the
pro gun and preparedness stances, and the general tech
slant ... any suggestions ?



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UBL is George Washington

At 09:58 PM 7/1/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
Submitted for comment :-)

  ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you
do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks
out
  about them.

  Osama Bin Laden

UBL's morals, which he unfortunately gets from a book (being a smart
guy, he could derive them himself like any half-cluefull atheist),
are largely convergent with the pre-Judaic/Xian culture the Moslems
forked a few hundred years ago.  (And what, Haiwatha rooted the
tree some time ago?)  Ie, as the Gadsen flag says, Don't tread
on me.   However, this is contrary to the methods of colonial
agents, eg. Romans, Brits, and Yanks.  Where yanks includes
neocons.

At this point I will quote the reluctant general,
Trade with all, make treaties with none, and beware of foreign
entanglements.
-George Washington
Where you can replace all with oil and none with Israel.  Etc.

Personally I think North America can be energy sufficient (nuke  coal
sands)
but this is an engineering/political issue.  Morally I think our
influence stops
within 3 miles of our coasts, and as high as out ABMs can reach.

Nice pussy (was Re: [IP] more on more on E-mail intercept ruling - good grief!! )

2004-07-03 Thread Morlock Elloi

 If VOIP gets no protection, then you'll see a lot of digital bugs in

Protection of bits by legislation ???

Why is this a subject ? If you don't encrypt you will be listened to. Who the
fuck cares if intercept is legal or not. That is irrelevant. It's like trying
to obsolete summer clothing by making it illegal to watch pussies and dicks.
And the discussion about it is similarly moronic.

In olde times cypherpunks would applaud lack of legal bit protection as it
stimulates sheeple to encrypt more. I mean wear panties.




=
end
(of original message)

Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows:



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more on more on E-mail intercept ruling - good grief!! (fwd from dave@farber.net)

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Roy M. Silvernail wrote:
 (But
your honor, it's stored for 1/60th of a second in the phosphor! It's a
storage medium!), etc.

Amongst the earliers RAMs were tubes of mercury with a pulse-generator
at one end and a microphone at the other.  The speed of sound provided
the delay, the system required regeneration, like modern DRAMs.

The fascists will define the language they desire, the technologists
have to deal with reality.  App level encryption with
privately-exchanged
PKs are the answer.  Verification / reputation up to you.

Re: China about to begin realtime censoring SMS messages

At 06:25 PM 7/3/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
automatically send SMS messages to a list of numbers. The government
already keeps statistics on number of messages sent at time period from
a
single number, and alerts the officials when it's above the limit and
then
the content is checked manually.

What you need then is also a telephone tree to do mass distributions
(randomly time-delayed) without having any one source go over quota.

Could be phone meshed or use computer SMS I/O.

Wouldn't it be horrible if some otherwise benign, quiet worm infected
computers to implement this?  Zombies aren't just for porn  pills,
they can help spread the newz.

Re: EZ Pass and the fast lane ....

At 09:34 PM 7/2/04 -0400, Dave Emery wrote:
frequency of 915 mhz at a power a little under 1 mw (0 dbm).

Meaning one can have a lot of fun while tossing one's change
into the funnel as the privacy-whores cruise by...

Diamond dust in the machine...

Re: Tyler's Education


On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 And digital edges are sharp, in the Ghz even when the clock is in the
 Mhz.

How much do the spread spectrum clock feature on the modern motherboards 
help here?

 And boxes need ventilation slots.

Not necessarily. There are other ways of heat transfer. A good way could 
be water cooling for transport of the heat from the CPU and other parts to 
a massive metal heatsink that's the part of the case, with an optional fan 
on its outside. Voila, water cooling is not only for case mod freakz 
anymore.

 Any questions?

I expect much bigger problem in the attached cables and connectors. How to 
solve this?

Re: Tyler's Education


On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 At 07:18 PM 7/3/04 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
 I dunno...as an ex-optical engineer/physicst, I'm sceptical about this
 whole
 scary tempest bullcrap. Even if it can be made to work fairly
 reliably, I
 suspect deploying it is extremely costly.

Scary or not, I can attest from first hand personal knowledge that this
type of monitoring is in active use by the US, and has been for over 4
years (although it's only been mainstream for ~2).


-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out
  about them.

  Osama Bin Laden

Tyler's Education

At 07:18 PM 7/3/04 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
I dunno...as an ex-optical engineer/physicst, I'm sceptical about this
whole
scary tempest bullcrap. Even if it can be made to work fairly
reliably, I
suspect deploying it is extremely costly.

So?   The State can print money...  And people are cheap.

And digital edges are sharp, in the Ghz even when the clock is in the
Mhz.
And boxes need ventilation slots.  Any questions?

Look at eg what NASA can do re: finding fireflies on the moon.
Now drop one A.

Or replace ASA with RO.


Hey--if they want me that bad these
days, it would probably be cheaper just to send the van and beat
whatever
they need out of me.

That lets you know they're listening.  Or they have to dispose of the
body,
which lets your colleages know they're onto y'all.

You really need to get up to speed on your Tradecraft, friend.

Re: Tyler's Education

2004-07-03 Thread Dave Emery

On Sat, Jul 03, 2004 at 09:41:44PM -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
 On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
 
  At 07:18 PM 7/3/04 -0400, Tyler Durden wrote:
  I dunno...as an ex-optical engineer/physicst, I'm sceptical about this
  whole
  scary tempest bullcrap. Even if it can be made to work fairly
  reliably, I
  suspect deploying it is extremely costly.
 
 Scary or not, I can attest from first hand personal knowledge that this
 type of monitoring is in active use by the US, and has been for over 4
 years (although it's only been mainstream for ~2).

Would you care to comment on any technical or other details ?

Tempest monitoring of raster scan CRTs has been around for
a long long time... but most current LCD displays are much less vulnerable
as pixels are switched in parallel (and of course not painted at high
speeds allowing optical monitoring).  But many video cards generate
the rasterized stuff anyway... and use that interface to talk to
the LCD monitor.

Tempest monitoring of energy on communications lines and power
lines related to internal decrypted traffic has been around since
before the Berlin tunnel... and used effectively.  But the heyday
of this was the mechanical crypto and mechanical Teletype era...
where sparking contacts switched substantial inductive loads.

Tempest monitoring of CPU and system behavior is a newer trick
in most cases if it is effective at all in typical situations.

Obviously Tempest monitoring of copper wire ethernet LAN traffic
is possible.   Wireless LANs, of course, aren't a Tempest issue.

Perhaps some keyboards radiate detectable keystroke related
energy...

But given the current statist tendencies here and elsewhere, it
would not surprise me at all to hear that any and all techniques for
surveillance anyone has shown to be effective are likely in active
use - there is money, interest, and a great lowering of inhibitions.
And certainly there has been more than enough open discussion of Tempest
type side channel attacks, unlikely the folks behind the curtain have
just ignored all of it...

On the other hand the cost, complexity and sophistication of
the gear required to extract information at useful ranges is still
daunting compared to other methods of obtaining the same information
(such as black bag jobs with disk copiers and use of trojans to capture
passphrases).


-- 
   Dave Emery N1PRE,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493

Re: China about to begin realtime censoring SMS messages


On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 At 06:25 PM 7/3/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
 automatically send SMS messages to a list of numbers. The government 
 already keeps statistics on number of messages sent at time period from 
 a single number, and alerts the officials when it's above the limit and 
 then the content is checked manually.
 
 What you need then is also a telephone tree to do mass distributions
 (randomly time-delayed) without having any one source go over quota.

I suppose it's what Falun Gong started doing in reaction to the measure.

 Could be phone meshed or use computer SMS I/O.

If the gateways are present.

 Wouldn't it be horrible if some otherwise benign, quiet worm infected
 computers to implement this?  Zombies aren't just for porn  pills,
 they can help spread the newz.

Or act as an onion-routing anonymizing network. It's a bit drastic way of 
enforcing privacy means, but it's always better to have a nuke up one's 
sleeve in case the stakes would get way too high.

I expect it to happen in couple years. Most likely it will be born either 
in some overtly restrictive regime of Far or Middle East (including but 
not limited to China), or as a reaction to some drastic measure-to-happen 
in the Demagocratic West.

Re: UBL is George Washington

2004-07-03 Thread Howie Goodell

OK -- some comments.

First, IMHO one confusing and perhaps confused post; I'm not sure I
get the point.

Second, to be specific, bin Laden isn't George Washington, but in at
least one respect he is LIKE others who struggled to keep their
countries from being dominated by foreigners. George Washington was
one such leader.  Vlad the Impaler was another (for the
history-challenged, this original for the legendary Count Dracula
temporarily saved Romania from being overrun by the Ottoman Turks, by
massacring hundreds of thousands of them, mostly by impaling them on
sharpened stakes.)  Mahatma Gandhi was another.  I think Vlad the
Impaler was Gandhi or vice-versa is about as apt a comparison as
Washington and bin Laden.

For starters, I think the use of terrorism is a moral a distinction
worth making.  Murdering thousands of civilians is not the same thing
as attacking enemy troops.  (To be consistent, the plane that hit the
Pentagon was not terrorism, but a military attack with civilian
collateral damage.)

Finally, while I (and John Kerry) agree that independence from Mideast
oil is a wiser goal than our current slavish devotion to the Saudis,
or military domination of the whole area, I think isolationism in the
age of the Internet is absurd.   The 3-mile limit was the range of
cannonballs, and ABMs are about as useful against many threats we
already face.  Like it or not, we Americans are part of one planet,
and we had better get better at it than we've been lately.

Howie Goodell

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:16:32 -0700, Major Variola (ret) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 At 09:58 PM 7/1/04 -0500, J.A. Terranson wrote:
 Submitted for comment :-)
 
   ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you
 do
   not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks
 out
   about them.
 
   Osama Bin Laden
 
 UBL's morals, which he unfortunately gets from a book (being a smart
 guy, he could derive them himself like any half-cluefull atheist),
 are largely convergent with the pre-Judaic/Xian culture the Moslems
 forked a few hundred years ago.  (And what, Haiwatha rooted the
 tree some time ago?)  Ie, as the Gadsen flag says, Don't tread
 on me.   However, this is contrary to the methods of colonial
 agents, eg. Romans, Brits, and Yanks.  Where yanks includes
 neocons.
 
 At this point I will quote the reluctant general,
 Trade with all, make treaties with none, and beware of foreign
 entanglements.
 -George Washington
 Where you can replace all with oil and none with Israel.  Etc.
 
 Personally I think North America can be energy sufficient (nuke  coal
 sands)
 but this is an engineering/political issue.  Morally I think our
 influence stops
 within 3 miles of our coasts, and as high as out ABMs can reach.
 
 E3-I: This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by UML's 
 antivirus scanning services.
 
 


-- 
Howie Goodell  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://goodL.org
Hardware control  Info Visualization  User interface
UMass Lowell Computer Science Doctoral Candidate

Re: Tyler's Education

2004-07-03 Thread Yeoh Yiu

Thomas Shaddack [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  And boxes need ventilation slots.
 
 Not necessarily. There are other ways of heat transfer. A good way could 
 be water cooling for transport of the heat from the CPU and other parts to 
 a massive metal heatsink that's the part of the case, with an optional fan 
 on its outside. Voila, water cooling is not only for case mod freakz 
 anymore.
 
  Any questions?
 
 I expect much bigger problem in the attached cables and connectors. How to 
 solve this?

Optic fibre.

Re: Tyler's Education


On Sun, 4 Jul 2004, Dave Emery wrote:

   Would you care to comment on any technical or other details ?

I do not have the detailed technical details I would have liked - I did
ask some of these types of questions and received little more
than careful decline to answers.

What I do know is that this type of monitoring is being done on a regular,
although limited scale, in FISA proceedings.  The targets are generally
CRT emissions, and the distance between target and acquisition gear is
under .5 miles - still a shocking range which I was totally unprepared
for.  I engaged one of the operators in a discussion about the tempest
resistant typefaces, and he was unaware of them.  Food for thought...

Interestingly, I have had more than one report of aural acquistion of
typists keystrokes being used to attempt to calculate the content of a
short keysequence (I assume a password is what was meant by short
keysequence).  These reports indicated poor, but occasionally lucky
results.  I have also been told that there is a broadcasting keyboard
cable inline device which is in wide use (this is pretty easy to do, but
requires blackbagging - something that was a lot more limited prior to
9/11).


-- 
Yours,

J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  ...justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do
  not.  And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out
  about them.

  Osama Bin Laden

Re: Tyler's Education

At 04:35 AM 7/4/04 +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:

 And digital edges are sharp, in the Ghz even when the clock is in
the
 Mhz.

How much do the spread spectrum clock feature on the modern
motherboards
help here?

They do complicate things.  But I bet their spread-spectrum jitter
is derived from a PRNG.  All your PRNGs are belong to us.  'Specially
because you can just buy them and either analyze their output, or
strip the layers and get back to the Verilog.

 And boxes need ventilation slots.

Not necessarily.

Indeed Centaur/Via's x86 w/ crypto is advertized as fanless

There are other ways of heat transfer.  A good way could
be water cooling for transport of the heat from the CPU and other parts
to
a massive metal heatsink that's the part of the case, with an optional
fan
on its outside. Voila, water cooling is not only for case mod freakz
anymore.

Just put the ventilated box in a bigger box and use some steel
wool in the ductwork to the outside...

 Any questions?

I expect much bigger problem in the attached cables and connectors. How
to
solve this?

Shielding.  Shielded room.  Shielded building.

Basic idea: electro-magnetic disturbances penetrate only a short
distance into
conductors.

Folks who deal with low noise amplifiers deal with this all the time.
Ground loops.
Faraday cages.  Low voltage differential signalling.  Grounded thin
metal layer
over your LCD display.

I once worked for a chipmaker and they had a metal room.  Horrible
ventilation.   Copper gaskets on all the seams.  You could probe a chip
in there, with a microscope and micromanipulators.  But they also had a
PC which kinda nulled out the RFI issue. However that PC's output would
not have escaped.  The power cables from
the outside to inside are an issue too.

As Schneier says, pros go after people, not tech; which is not to say
you
can ignore RF tracking if you're a target.  I don't think you can fish
with
van Ecyk (sp?) tech, although wardriving/flying sorta counts, except
that
those are intentional emitters.

If I promise you a green card or citizenship, and give you a grand,
will you install this gizmo between the keyboard and computer for me
when you're cleaning the office?  (Assuming you're an 'illegal' working
for shit wages and the Suit has credentials, or cash, or both.  Ask
Nicky Scarfo about this..)

Or plug a camoflaged 802.11blah AP into a RJ-45 and listen from the
van...
(Succeptible to sweeps, but how often are they done?  And real pros use
bursty bugs that aren't broadcasting all the time, eg in the woodwork
of the State Dept.)

GPS, phones, toothing