campus network admins

[cypher]

I recently violated the network user agreement (they packet-sniffed and
got the username/password for my FTP server and didn't like what I was
sharing with myself) and was informed by the admin that I am now 'under
observation' and that they "hope I don't like privacy". Considering
this admin was an NSA employee, I tend to take that threat a little
seriously. Two questions:

1) I'm assuming they can legally look at anything that comes in or out
of my computer, but is that the case? Can they look at my computer
itself, or take me off the network for the private contents of my
computer?

2) Is there some sort of service I can use to have everything I do on the
network encrypted, such as a tunneling service to the internet?


This message was sent from The Tedious Path
Are you ready to travel The Tedious Path?
http://www.tediouspath.com
http://forum.tediouspath.com

Re: Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal

[Roy M. Silvernail]

On Wed, 2004-11-03 at 23:30 -0500, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
> 
> 
> HUMAN EVENTS ONLINE: The National Conservative Weekly Since 1944
> 
> Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal
> It's Time to Reconfigure the United States

Chuckle-worthy, if not outright funny.  Interestingly, I could see a
liberal making exactly the same case, but without the ad hominem
attacks.
-- 
Roy M. Silvernail is [EMAIL PROTECTED], and you're not
"It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFS
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com

Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal

[R.A. Hettinga]

HUMAN EVENTS ONLINE: The National Conservative Weekly Since 1944

Declaration of Expulsion: A Modest Proposal
It's Time to Reconfigure the United States

by Mike Thompson
Posted Nov 3, 2004
 [From the author: This is an essay I've been working on for the past
several weeks, updated moments ago with what appears to be Bush's final
number of victory states (31) once the nonsense of provisional votes in
Ohio is overcome.

 As an admitted "modest proposal" (a la Swift's satiric story of the same
name), it is nevertheless serious in pointing out the cancer that continues
to threaten our body politic.]

 Branded unconstitutional by President Abraham Lincoln, the South's
secession from the American Union ultimately sparked "The Civil War" (a
name that was rejected by Southerners, who correctly called it "The War
Between the States," for the South never sought to 1] seize the central
government or 2] rule the other side, two requisites for a civil war).

 No state may leave the Union without the other states' approval, according
to Lincoln's doctrine--an assertion that ignores the Declaration of
Independence, which was the vital basis for all 13 American colonies'
unilateral secession from the British Union eight decades earlier.
Lincoln's grotesque legal argument also disregards a state's inherent right
of secession which many scholars believe is found in the Ninth and Tenth
Amendments to the U.S. Constitution.

 Meantime, America has become just as divided as it was a century and a
half ago, when it writhed in Brother-vs.-Brother War. Instead of wedge
issues like slavery, federal subsidies for regional business, and high
tariffs, society today is sundered by profound, insoluble Culture War
conflicts (such as abortion and gay marriage), and debate about our role
abroad (shall we remain the world's leader, or become an unprincipled chump
for the cabal of globalist sybarites who play endless word-games inside the
United Nations and European Union sanctuaries?).

 For many decades, conservative citizens and like-minded political leaders
(starting with President Calvin Coolidge) have been denigrated by the
vilest of lies and characterizations from hordes of liberals who now won't
even admit that they are liberals--because the word connotes such moral
stink and political silliness. As a class, liberals no longer are merely
the vigorous opponents of the Right; they are spiteful enemies of
civilization's core decency and traditions.

 Defamation, never envisioned by our Founding Fathers as being protected by
the First Amendment, flourishes and passes today for acceptable political
discourse. Movies, magazines, newspapers, radio/TV programs, plays,
concerts, public schools, colleges, and most other public vehicles openly
traffic in slander and libel. Hollywood salivated over the idea of placing
another golden Oscar into Michael Moore'sfat hands, for his Fahrenheit 9/11
jeremiad, the most bogus, deceitful film documentary since Herr Hitler and
Herr Goebbels gave propaganda a bad name.

 When they tire of showering conservative victims with ideological mud,
liberals promote the only other subjects with which they feel
conversationally comfortable: Obscenity and sexual perversion. It's as if
the genes of liberals have rendered them immune to all forms of filth.

 As a final insult, liberal lawyers and judges have become locusts of the
Left, conspiring to destroy democracy itself by excreting statutes and
courtroom tactics that fertilize electoral fraud and sprout fields of
vandals who will cast undeserved and copious ballots on Election Day.

 The truth is, America is not just broken--it is becoming irreparable. If
you believe that recent years of uncivil behavior are burdensome, imagine
the likelihood of a future in which all bizarre acts are the norm, and a
government-booted foot stands permanently on your face.

 That is why the unthinkable must become thinkable. If the so-called "Red
States" (those that voted for George W. Bush) cannot be respected or at
least tolerated by the "Blue States" (those that voted for Al Gore and John
Kerry), then the most disparate of them must live apart--not by secession
of the former (a majority), but by expulsion of the latter. Here is how to
do it.

 Having been amended only 17 times since 10 vital amendments (the Bill of
Rights) were added at the republic's inception, the U.S. Constitution is
not easily changed, primarily because so many states (75%, now 38 of 50)
must agree. Yet, there are 38 states today that may be inclined to adopt,
let us call it, a "Declaration of Expulsion," that is, a specific
constitutional amendment to kick out the systemically troublesome states
and those trending rapidly toward anti-American, if not outright
subversive, behavior. The 12 states that must go: California, Illinois, New
York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode
Island, Connecticut, Maryland, and Delawa

let us know if this helps

[Will Gomez]

Here is the link to the program you wanted to see

http://www.yourhealthmatters-now.com/?wid=superhawk


Let me know what you think of it, we have loved it so far



Take Care, 
Will Gomez




News:
%RNDTEXT_5_14

Re: the new Keyser Sose (was Re: "Do androids dream of electric camels?")

[R.A. Hettinga]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At 4:43 PM -0800 11/3/04, Bill Stewart wrote:
>Not sure if the old Keyser Sose was limping or not,
>but he came out last week to give George Bush's campaign a helpful
>"Booga booga booga" to remind the sheeple that he's still there.

Karl Rove did it. Walter Cronkite says so. [Bwahahahaha!]

>Bush's speech had bragged that Osama could "run, but he can't hide",
>and Kerry neglected the chance to remind the public that
>Osama ran, and he's hidden real well, and that Bush has been
>too busy with the war on Saddam to bother catching him.

Two words, Bill: Whitey Bulger.

Boo!

Mirthfully yours,
RAH
Glee. It's not just for breakfast, anymore.

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Version: PGP 8.0.3

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=O7v+
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-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: the new Keyser Sose (was Re: "Do androids dream of electric camels?")

[Bill Stewart]

Not sure if the old Keyser Sose was limping or not,
but he came out last week to give George Bush's campaign a helpful
"Booga booga booga" to remind the sheeple that he's still there.
Bush's speech had bragged that Osama could "run, but he can't hide",
and Kerry neglected the chance to remind the public that
Osama ran, and he's hidden real well, and that Bush has been
too busy with the war on Saddam to bother catching him.

Your source code, for sale

[R.A. Hettinga]

 
 - ADTmag.com

Your source code, for sale

By Mike Gunderloy

Well, maybe not yet. But what does the future hold for those who consider
their source code an important proprietary asset?

Halloween this year featured more scary stuff than just ghosts and ghouls.
It was also the day (at least in the Pacific time zone) when the Source
Code Club posted their second Newsletter in a public Usenet group. Despite
their innocent-sounding name, the Source Code Club is a group of hackers
who are offering to sell the source to commercial products. Their current
menu of source code for sale looks like this:
*   Cisco Pix 6.3.1 - $24,000
*   Enterasys Dragon IDS - $19.200
*   Napster - $12,000

They also claim to have the source code for many other packages that they
haven't announced publicly. "If you are requesting something from a Fortune
100 company, there is a good chance that we might already have it, they
say. Now, you might think this business is blatantly illegal, and no doubt
it is. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible. They're posting
their newsletter to Usenet, probably from an Internet cafe somewhere, so
that's not traceable. They'll take orders the same way, and require orders
to be encrypted using their PGP key, which is at least reasonably
unbreakable at the moment. (As of this writing, I don't see any encrypted
messages posted to the newsgroup they use, though). For payment, they're
using e-gold, which claims to protect the anonymity of its account holders.

Now, it seems reasonably likely that the Source Code Club folks will
eventually get caught; going up against Cisco's resources displays at least
a strong conviction of invulnerability. But even if these guys get caught,
there are deeper issues here. Ten years ago, no one could have dreamed of
trying to set up such a business. Ten years from now, advances in
cryptography, more forms of currency circulating on the Internet, and
improvements in anonymity software are likely to make it impossible to
catch a similar operation.

What will it mean when hacker groups can in fact do business this way with
impunity? First, it's important to note that the ability to sell wares
anonymously won't necessarily imply the ability to get inventory. Your best
defense against having your own source code leaked is to pay careful
attention to its physical security. These days, if I were developing an
important commercial product, I'd make sure there was no path between my
development or build machines and the public Internet. Hackers can do lots
of things, but they still can't leap over physical disconnections. Second,
I'd use software that prevents temporary storage devices (like USB sticks)
from connecting to the network, and keep CD and DVD burners out of the
development boxes as well.

It's also worth making sure that your business doesn't depend entirely on
source code. While the intellectual property that goes into making software
is certainly a valuable asset, it shouldn't be your only asset. Think about
ancillary services like training, support, and customization in addition to
simply selling software.

Finally, note that the Source Code Club business model is based on taking
advantage of people wanting to know what's in the software that they
purchase. About the pix code, they say "Many intelligence
agencies/government organizations will want to know if those 1's and 0's in
the pix image really are doing what was advertised. You must ask yourself
how well you trust the pix images you download to your appliance from
cisco.com." Microsoft (among other companies) has demonstrated how to
remove this particular fear factor from customers: share your source code
under controlled circumstances. That doesn't mean that you need to adapt an
open source model, but when a big customer comes calling, why not walk
their engineers through how things work and let them audit their own areas
of concern?

Given the shifting landscape of intellectual property, and the threat from
groups such as the Source Code Club, these are matters you need to think
about sooner rather than later. Otherwise you may wake up some morning and
find that your major asset has vanished without your even knowing it was in
danger.


Mike Gunderloy, MCSE, MCSD .NET, MCDBA is an independent software
consultant and author working in eastern Washington. He's the editor of
ADT's Developer Central newsletter and author of numerous books and
articles. You can reach him at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

This article originally appeared in the
November 2004 issue of Application Development Trends.


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the R

Re: Why you keep losing to this idiot

[Roy M. Silvernail]

On Wed, 2004-11-03 at 14:01 -0800, Eric Cordian wrote:
> > I think this is the answer: Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity.
> 
> Isn't that what Democracy is all about?  The 51% simpletons imposing their 
> will on the 49% non-simpletons?
> 
> Proportional representation is our friend.

Kornbluth was right.
-- 
Roy M. Silvernail is [EMAIL PROTECTED], and you're not
"It's just this little chromium switch, here." - TFS
SpamAssassin->procmail->/dev/null->bliss
http://www.rant-central.com

the new Keyser Sose (was Re: "Do androids dream of electric camels?")

[R.A. Hettinga]

At 8:34 PM + 11/3/04, POPBITCH wrote:
>>> Hardline Honeyz 2 <<
>Al Zarqawi: the unusual suspect
>
>Mysterious Jordanian celebrity executioner Abu
>Musab Al Zarqawi is a huge hit with lovers of
>Hardline Honeyz. With a $25m price tag on his
>head, al Zarqawi shot to fame as the star of
>"Sheik Abu Musab Al Zarqawi slaughters an
>American infidel with his own hands", a video
>showing the death of Iraq hostage Nicholas Berg.
>But is Al Zarqawi for real?
>
>A Jordanian of that name did fight in Afganistan
>in the 80s and in Kurdish Iraq in the 90s,
>with a group called Ansar al-Islam, but no more
>was heard of him until Colin Powell's famous
>warmongering speech to the UN named him as the
>link between Saddam and Osama. Since then Al
>Zarqawi has become a mythic bogeyman blamed for
>almost every real or imagined terrorist threat.
>
>*Suddenly he was al-Qaeda's bioterrorism expert
>and head of terror camps in Saddam-era Iraq; he'd
>never previously been linked to either.
>* US intelligence experts say Berg's executioner
>clearly didn't have a Jordanian accent.
>* Iraqi insurgents claimed Al Zarqawi was dead,
>and all new captured operatives from Ansar
>al-Islam say they've never laid eyes on him.
>* CIA said he only had one leg after an operation
>in Baghdad, but since the executioner in the
>video clearly had two they now say, er, he has
>two after all.
>
>So... Al Zarqawi: he's the new Keyser Sose.

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: Why you keep losing to this idiot

[Eric Cordian]

> I think this is the answer: Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity.

Isn't that what Democracy is all about?  The 51% simpletons imposing their 
will on the 49% non-simpletons?

Proportional representation is our friend.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"

Re: This Memorable Day

[alan]

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Tyler Durden wrote:

> Well, this may actually be less hard than we thought. Indeed, it's the one 
> vaguely silver lining in this toxic cloud. Outsourcing to India will 
> actually add a lot to world stability. Of course, we'll loose a lot of jobs 
> in the process, but in the long run we'll eventually have another strong 
> trading partner like Japan or France or the Dutch. Bush will sell us out to 
> big business and all of the less-well-off will suffer like crazy in the 
> process, but it will actually make things better in the long run. The only 
> thing we need to worry about is not melting the ice caps in the process.

You forget that Bush and his cronies are Evangelical Christians.  They 
believe that the world is going to end *soon* and that it is a good thing. 

These are people who are doing everything they can to make the world a 
less stable place because in doing so they bring about armagedon.  (Then 
Jesus will come back and they will be rewarded for bringing about the 
deaths of billions.

Sometimes i wonder if they worship Jesus or Cthulhu.  (Maybe they are the 
same.  How else could he walk on water?)

-- 
Q: Why do programmers confuse Halloween and Christmas?
A: Because OCT 31 == DEC 25.

Re: This Memorable Day

[Tyler Durden]

Well, this may actually be less hard than we thought. Indeed, it's the one 
vaguely silver lining in this toxic cloud. Outsourcing to India will 
actually add a lot to world stability. Of course, we'll loose a lot of jobs 
in the process, but in the long run we'll eventually have another strong 
trading partner like Japan or France or the Dutch. Bush will sell us out to 
big business and all of the less-well-off will suffer like crazy in the 
process, but it will actually make things better in the long run. The only 
thing we need to worry about is not melting the ice caps in the process.

-TD
From: John Kelsey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Nomen Nescio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: This Memorable Day
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:13:28 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>From: Nomen Nescio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Nov 3, 2004 6:50 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: This Memorable Day
...
>The only way to move towards a more friendly world is to make
>people feel they are able to share the wealth and prosperity of the
>world. As long as there is one single person anywhere in the world
>hungering to death there is still a basis for fundamentalism and all
>the problem that leads to.
Ahh.  So all we have to do to end terrorism is to end poverty, injustice, 
and inequality all over the world.  *Phew*.  I thought it was going to take 
something hard.

--John
_
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to 
School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx

Seeking Part/Full Time Reps. Countrywide

[Career Making from --OSG]

Part/Full Time Countrywide

Re: This Memorable Day

[R.A. Hettinga]

At 11:11 AM -0800 11/3/04, James A. Donald wrote:
>"Dhimmitude" being
>a dangerously inferior status where one's property is insecure, and
>women are apt to be raped.

ObSmartAssComment: That's why they call it "Dhimmicracy", much less the
"Dhimmicratic" Party...

:-).

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

DIMACS Workshop on Markets as Predictive Devices (Information Markets)

[R.A. Hettinga]

--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:15:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Linda Casals <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: DIMACS Workshop on Markets as Predictive Devices (Information Markets)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


*

DIMACS Workshop on Markets as Predictive Devices (Information Markets)

 February 2-4, 2005
 DIMACS Center, Rutgers University, Piscataway, NJ

Organizers:

 Robin Hanson, George Mason University, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 John Ledyard, California Institute of Technology,
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 David Pennock, Overture Services, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Presented under the auspices of the Special Focus on Computation and
the Socio-Economic Sciences.



For decades, economists have studied an astonishing "side effect''
of financial and wagering markets: their ability to serve as highly
accurate forecasting devices. This workshop aims to explore the use of
markets as a substitute for, or complement to, more traditional
forecasting tools. We will examine how information flows from traders
to the market and back again, how market mechanisms process
information, how market prices communicate information and forecasts,
and what mechanisms best foster accurate and statistically-testable
predictions. The workshop will bring together researchers and
practitioners from a variety of relevant fields, including economics,
finance, computer science, and statistics, in both academia and
industry, to discuss the state of the art today, and the challenges
and prospects for tomorrow.

A market designed from the outset for information gathering and
forecasting is called an information market. Information markets can
be used to elicit a collective estimate of the expected value or
probability of a random variable, reflecting information dispersed
across an entire population of traders. The market prediction is not
usually an average or median of individual opinions, but is a complex
summarization reflecting the game-theoretic interplay of traders as
they obtain and leverage information, and as they react to the actions
of others obtaining and leveraging their own information, etc. In the
best case scenario, the market price reflects a forecast that is a
perfect Bayesian integration of all the information spread across all
of the traders, properly accounting even for redundancy. This is the
equilibrium scenario called rational expectations in the economics
literature, and is the assumption underlying the strong form of the
efficient markets hypothesis in finance.

The degree to which market forecasts approach optimality in
practice, or at least surpass other known methods of forecasting, is
remarkable. Supporting evidence can be found in empirical studies of
options markets, commodity futures markets, political stock markets,
sports betting markets, horse racing markets, market games, laboratory
investigations of experimental markets, and field tests. In nearly all
these cases, to the extent that the financial instruments or bets are
tied to real-world events, market prices reveal a reliable forecast
about the likely unfolding of those events, often beating expert
opinions or polls.

Despite a growing experimental literature, many questions remain
regarding how best to design, deploy, analyze, and understand
information markets, including both technical challenges (e.g.,
designing combinatorial exchanges and social challenges (e.g.,
overcoming legal and ethical concerns). The search for answers will
benefit from input from economists (including specialists in mechanism
design, experimental economics, financial markets, wagering markets,
and rational expectations theory), statisticians and decision
theorists (including experts in forecasting, belief aggregation, group
decision making, Bayesian updating, and opinion polling), and computer
scientists (including experts in combinatorial exchanges, distributed
computing, information theory, and mixing worst-case and Bayesian
analysis). This workshop will seek to bring together a variety of
experts representing these fields, to engage in a dialog describing
current and future research directions to facilitate the design,
refinement, and proliferation of markets as predictive devices.

As part of the workshop, one or more tutorials are planned for the
benefit of students and other newcomers to the field; little or no
background knowledge will be assumed.

**
Call for Participation:

This workshop will include talks on information markets (a.k.a,
prediction markets, event markets, or idea futures) by a number of
distinguished invited speakers. Speakers will cover a range of topics
including mechanism design, exper

U.S. stocks surge as Bush heads for victory

[R.A. Hettinga]

--- begin forwarded text





Midday Report
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?column=Newswatch&dist=nwtam&siteid=mktw



Current levels on US market indices at 11:40 am ET Nov 3, 2004

   Last  Change
DJIA  10,182.39  +146.66
S&P 5001,146.41   +15.85
NASDAQ 2,013.30   +28.51
10-Year U.S. T-Bond   4.13%   +0.053


--- end forwarded text


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: This Memorable Day

[R.A. Hettinga]

At 11:11 AM -0800 11/3/04, James A. Donald wrote:
>It is often argued that since war, violence, etc, are public goods


This is my favorite retort to that:

"Externalities are the last refuge of the derigistes." -- Friedrich Hayek

An otherwise excellent rant elided...

Cheers,
RAH


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"Externalities are the last refuge of the derigistes." -- Friedrich Hayek

Re: This Memorable Day

[John Kelsey]

>From: Nomen Nescio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Nov 3, 2004 6:50 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: This Memorable Day

...
>The only way to move towards a more friendly world is to make
>people feel they are able to share the wealth and prosperity of the
>world. As long as there is one single person anywhere in the world
>hungering to death there is still a basis for fundamentalism and all
>the problem that leads to.

Ahh.  So all we have to do to end terrorism is to end poverty, injustice, and 
inequality all over the world.  *Phew*.  I thought it was going to take something 
hard.  

--John

Why you keep losing to this idiot

[R.A. Hettinga]

This comes from an old joke. A grand master, in the middle of a chess
match, jumps up onto the table, kicks off all the pieces, and screams,
almost unintelligibly, "Why must I *lose*, to such *idiots*!!!".

:-).

Cheers,
RAH
---





Simple but Effective
Why you keep losing to this idiot.
By William Saletan
Updated  Wednesday, Nov. 3, 2004, at 12:05 AM PT


12:01 a.m. PT: Sigh. I really didn't want to have to write this.

George W. Bush is going to win re-election. Yeah, the lawyers will haggle
about Ohio. But this time, Democrats don't have the popular vote on their
side. Bush does.

If you're a Bush supporter, this is no surprise. You love him, so why
shouldn't everybody else?

But if you're dissatisfied with Bush-or if, like me, you think he's been
the worst president in memory-you have a lot of explaining to do. Why don't
a majority of voters agree with us? How has Bush pulled it off?

I think this is the answer: Simplicity, simplicity, simplicity.

Bush is a very simple man. You may think that makes him a bad president, as
I do, but lots of people don't-and there are more of them than there are of
us. If you don't believe me, take a look at those numbers on your TV screen.

Think about the simplicity of everything Bush says and does. He gives the
same speech every time. His sentences are short and clear. "Government must
do a few things and do them well," he says. True to his word, he has spent
his political capital on a few big ideas: tax cuts, terrorism, Iraq. Even
his electoral strategy tonight was powerfully simple: Win Florida, win
Ohio, and nothing else matters. All those lesser states-Michigan,
Minnesota, Wisconsin, New Hampshire-don't matter if Bush reels in the big
ones.

This is what so many people like about Bush's approach to terrorism. They
forgive his marginal and not-so-marginal screw-ups, because they can see
that fundamentally, he "gets it." They forgive his mismanagement of Iraq,
because they see that his heart and will are in the right place. And while
they may be unhappy about their economic circumstances, they don't hold
that against him. What you and I see as unreflectiveness, they see as
transparency. They trust him.

Now look at your candidate, John Kerry. What quality has he most lacked?
Not courage-he proved that in Vietnam. Not will-he proved that in Iowa. Not
brains-he proved that in the debates. What Kerry lacked was simplicity.
Bush had one message; Kerry had dozens. Bush had one issue; Kerry had
scores. Bush ended his sentences when you expected him to say more; Kerry
went on and on, adding one prepositional phrase after another, until nobody
could remember what he was talking about. Now Bush has two big states that
mean everything, and Kerry has a bunch of little ones that add up to
nothing.

If you're a Democrat, here's my advice. Do what the Republicans did in
1998. Get simple. Find a compelling salesman and get him ready to run for
president in 2008. Put aside your quibbles about preparation, stature,
expertise, nuance, and all that other hyper-sophisticated garbage that
caused you to nominate Kerry. You already have legions of people with
preparation, stature, expertise, and nuance ready to staff the executive
branch of the federal government. You don't need one of them to be
president. You just need somebody to win the White House and appoint them
to his administration. And that will require all the simplicity,
salesmanship, and easygoing humanity they don't have.

The good news is, that person is already available. His name is John
Edwards. If you have any doubt about his electability, just read the exit
polls from the 2004 Democratic primaries. If you don't think he's ready to
be president-if you don't think he has the right credentials, the right
gravitas, the right subtlety of thought-ask yourself whether these are the
same things you find wanting in George W. Bush. Because evidently a
majority of the voting population of the United States doesn't share your
concern. They seem to be attracted to a candidate with a simple message, a
clear focus, and a human touch. You might want to consider their views,
since they're the ones who will decide whether you're sitting here again
four years from now, wondering what went wrong.

In 1998 and 1999, Republicans cleared the field for George W. Bush. Members
of Congress and other major officeholders threw their weight behind him to
make sure he got the nomination. They united because their previous
presidential nominee, a clumsy veteran senator, had gone down to defeat.
They were facing eight years out of power, and they were hungry.

Do what they did. Give Edwards a job that will position him to run for
president again in a couple of years. Clear the field of Hillary Clinton
and any other well-meaning liberal who can't connect with people outside
those islands of blue on your electoral map. Because you're going to get a
simple president again next time, whethe

Re: This Memorable Day

[James A. Donald]

--
> This post gave me a big laugh. So naive. There are a few basic
> forces feeding extremism and terrorism around the world and those
> are inequalities and injustice anywhere.
You are quite right, it is unjust that people like Bin Laden are so
immensely rich with oil wealth.  To remedy this problem, Bush should
confiscate the Middle Eastern oil reserves.
You are using stale old communist rhetoric - but today's terrorists no
longer not even pretend to fight on behalf of the poor and oppressed.
--digsig
 James A. Donald
 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
 hB70Rn/r/Izz2zUYn/rVfOyEDZVqu1UUzdNLVJJe
 4inRuB429RCVLG1VVfP9Z5CBGfL+mE/dNmP+GZvcb

Re: This Memorable Day

[James A. Donald]

--
Peter Gutmann wrote:
> Fighting an unwinnable war always seems to produce the same type of
> rhetoric,
It is a little premature to call this war unwinnable.  The kill ratio
so far is comparable with Britain's zulu war.
--digsig
 James A. Donald
 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
 9YCccdHmWgBxj3a1UFFKM7Xyl1qKvkQYJoNuuZEw
 4pOgjIzTXDiWQ1xXvdwBxCk93EgSXiZfQ29ag+5sW

Re: This Memorable Day

[James A. Donald]

--
 Peter Gutmann wrote:
Well it wasn't the point I was trying to make, which was comparing
it to predictions made by (the propaganda division of) another
super-power in the mid 1940s about winning an unwinnable war because
God/righteousness/whatever was on their side, and all they had to do
was hold out a bit longer.  Compare the general tone of the WSJ
article to the one in e.g. the first half of
http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documen
ts/htestmnt.htm.
But it is hardly a matter of "holding out".  So far the Pentagon has
shattered the enemy while suffering casualties of about a thousand,
which is roughly the same number of casualties as the British empire
suffered doing regime change on the Zulu empire - an empire of a
quarter of a million semi naked savages mostly armed with spears.
As quagmires go, this one has not yet got shoelaces muddy.  The
enemies are the one's that have heroic fantasies of holding out
against hopeless odds, as for example Fallujah.  The question is not
whether the terrorists keep Falljah, but merely whether Pentagon gets
a city or a pile of rubble.
--digsig
 James A. Donald
 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
 9M6CeBC9wwBisQe3JNJvnnu758kvx8Rq2e2KM9b2
 41XkwhnPAbRy29/XaMnNedLxI40PWmNEk4y2tUdn7

Re: This Memorable Day

[James A. Donald]

--
R.A. Hettinga wrote:
Seriously, any future crypto-anarchy / anarcho-capitalist society is
probably not going to succeed unless it can project *more* force
than we can project currently with force monopoly -- not less. That
*doesn't* mean centralized, but it certainly means *more*.
It is often argued that since war, violence, etc, are public goods,
only a state can efficiently defend against states.  Yet in most wars
since 1980, non state entities have done most of the heavy lifting
-loose coalitions containing many independent groups, for example the
contras, the holy warriors that overthrew the Taliban.
Looking at the events of World War II, it looks to me that it does
indeed require a state to conquer and occupy a hostile government, as
the US conquered and occupied Germany, but the Japanese army was
broken by a thousand small groups.
Defeating a large scale evildoer is a public good - but large scale
evil consists of many acts of small scale evil, and defeating each
particular small scale evil act is a private good.
When it came to the part of the war that was purely a public good,
conquering the German and Japanese homelands, America did indeed bear
almost the whole burden, but when it came to defending Australia
against the Japanese, the Australians bore the major burden, and
similarly for most other battlefields outside of the aggressors'
homelands.  Most German troops died fighting Russians in Russia, not
Americans in Germany. The particular victims of particular Japanese or
German acts of aggression counter attacked those particular Japanese
or Germans attacking them.
National defense, or at least some forms of national defense, such as
destroying Hitler's Germany, is a public good, and genuinely anarchist
societies are apt to under provide public goods.
On the other hand governments tend to provide the wrong kind of public
goods, providing what serves their purposes rather than the supposed
purpose of the public good,  Further, when a government gets in the
business of providing a some supposed public good, it creates a lobby,
which results in the public good being over provided, thus for example
ever lengthening copyright, ever more expansive patents for ever more
trivial "inventions", and, of course, the infamous military/industrial
complex, such as Haliburton.
War, for example destroying Hitler's Germany, is the most plausibly
essential public good, the strongest justification for the state.  But
when we look at the defeat of the Soviet Union, or the defeat of the
Taliban, this argument looks considerably weaker.  The heavy lifting
in those wars was done by loose alliances of small groups, for example
the holy warriors and the contras, which did not rely on a single
large centralized authority to support the public good of defeat of an
oppressive regime.
In the second world war, public good theory would lead us to expect
that the most powerful state, America would bear almost the whole
burden of defeating the threat, and smaller states would hang back and
cheer the winner.
The holy warriors were probably effective against the Soviets because
each holy warrior was defending his home, and each small group of holy
warriors were defending their village. Among the contras, it appears
that the Indian contras defended the Indians against forced
collectivization, breaking up collectives with extreme violence and
killing the collectives functionaries and administrators, often in
disturbingly unpleasant ways, but failed to participate in other
contra struggles.
Thus anarchic forms of society appear to be capable of waging war
defensively with considerably effectiveness, but are considerably less
capable of taking the war to places far away.
This is not such a severe limitation as it might appear, since the
Soviet Union was overthrown by essentially defensive wars, leading to
the dominoes falling all the way to Moscow.
It is the nature of Islam to impose dhimmitude on nonbelievers,
without much regard for official state boundaries.  "Dhimmitude" being
a dangerously inferior status where one's property is insecure, and
women are apt to be raped.  Existing Muslim states often fail to
prosecute crimes against infidels, and when crimes are prosecuted,
penalties are slight.
The West has tried to confine Dhimmitude inside a system of states -
the Muslims can oppress their minorities inside Muslim state
boundaries all they like, but cannot oppress outside Muslim state
boundaries.  This artificial boundary bends under pressure, creating
the conflict we now see.
The anarchic equivalent of the current policy of imperial state
building, would be to enter mutual defense arrangements with dhimmi,
without regard to state boundaries.
The Taliban had imposed Dhimmi status on Muslims they did not agree
with in Afghanistan.  An anarchic America would not be able to occupy
Iraq, nor would it be capable of "building democracy" in Afghanistan,
but it would be able to do the equivalent of sending special forces to
assis

Diebold

[Eugen Leitl]

So, we know Diebold commited vote fraud. Irregularities, my ass. 

Why did Kerry just roll over? The second time, after Gore?

This just doesn't make sense.
There's been over a year to prepare. Or is the entire process just a charade?

-- 
Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl
__
ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org
8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net


pgpLA3SlczlSt.pgp
Description: PGP signature

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Re: This Memorable Day

[John Young]

Bob,

But your defenses of the fatherland are hollow formulas.
There has been no war to win, a war the US is forever
stealing from the citizenry to prepare for, and then fucking
up with the minor skirmishes by having no doctrine or
training to apply its mythical might, except, as always,
to explain away abject failure with fairy tales like you're
telling.

Deterence is bullshit, but it worked to keep the Soviet
and US militarists and their supplies in top level comfort.

Now, the US has no complicit partner in raiding the public
till, so it fabricates the terrorist threat, and lockstepping
right along comes Russia, the UK and all the natsec
bullshitters (slanted intelligence addicts) to march to
the beat of bucks aflowing imperially.

Dig deeper, middle-aged spinner, your history seems to 
have been framed by the Cold War and its bastard mini-me 
terrorism racket here lately.

Do you by any chance have a contract with the tomfoolers?
Or is it just natural to believe sugar daddy's tales of
conquest and invulnerability? 

And, what is this shit about needing to kill as many of
the varmints as possible? Have you ever tried to do that,
these mean sumbitches are not birds and rabbits and
women and children.

Beware the May/Donald megadeath syndrome which always 
indicates a yellow stripe down the back of those who love
to advocate others dying for their comfort and safety --
in large numbers, as if big bragging makes it braver.
Weenies do that.

Re: This Memorable Day

[R.A. Hettinga]

ObPedantry:

At 9:49 AM -0500 11/3/04, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
>If you'd learned any history, you'd know that the first argument is
   x second
>the result of the complete failure of the *premises* of the first to
>happen at all


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: This Memorable Day

[Tyler Durden]

"2. Vietnam we lost by kicking their asses so badly that our campuses
"revolted", at the behest of a bunch of marxists. Whereupon we packed
up, partied for about 15 years, and killed their communist sugar
daddies in Moscow with just the *possibility* we could invent
something strategic missile defense, they couldn't copy fast enough."
Are you trollin' m'friend, or have you been smokin' James Donald's ground up 
toenails?

-TD
Mao accused the US of being a "paper tiger", and there may be some truth to 
that.


From: "R.A. Hettinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: John Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: This Memorable Day
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:05:19 -0500
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
At 7:33 AM -0800 11/3/04, John Young wrote:
>The US has not won since WW2.
Nope. Not at all.
1. Korea we lost by shoving the commies all the way up to the Yalu
river. And then leaving them to fester behind a still-extant DMZ
until they're almost enough of a "nuisance", to lots of people,
including the now-almost-former-communist Chinese to worry over.
2. Vietnam we lost by kicking their asses so badly that our campuses
"revolted", at the behest of a bunch of marxists. Whereupon we packed
up, partied for about 15 years, and killed their communist sugar
daddies in Moscow with just the *possibility* we could invent
something strategic missile defense, they couldn't copy fast enough.
The Cold War we lost by... Wait a minute. We didn't lose. See 1., and
2., above.
That leaves us, what, John? Grenada? Panama? Hell, Columbia? Oh.
Right. Lebanon. Tell ya what. Let's start the clock on this war at,
say, the assasination of Bobby Kennedy by Sirhan Sirhan, include the
Beiruit truck bombing by reference as a battle, and see how we stand
in a decade or so, shall we?
C'mon, John. Think faster, or something.
Cheers,
RAH

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=SOlw
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--
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
_
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Re: Musings on "getting out the vote"

[Pete Capelli]

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 22:04:24 -0800, Major Variola (ret) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At least I live in a blue state.  The reds, you've earned what you've
> earned.

So ... don't blame you, you voted for Kodos?

-- 

Pete Capelli  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.capelli.org PGP Key ID:0x829263B6
"Those who would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither 
liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Re: This Memorable Day

[R.A. Hettinga]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At 7:33 AM -0800 11/3/04, John Young wrote:
>The US has not won since WW2.

Nope. Not at all.

1. Korea we lost by shoving the commies all the way up to the Yalu
river. And then leaving them to fester behind a still-extant DMZ
until they're almost enough of a "nuisance", to lots of people,
including the now-almost-former-communist Chinese to worry over.

2. Vietnam we lost by kicking their asses so badly that our campuses
"revolted", at the behest of a bunch of marxists. Whereupon we packed
up, partied for about 15 years, and killed their communist sugar
daddies in Moscow with just the *possibility* we could invent
something strategic missile defense, they couldn't copy fast enough.

The Cold War we lost by... Wait a minute. We didn't lose. See 1., and
2., above.

That leaves us, what, John? Grenada? Panama? Hell, Columbia? Oh.
Right. Lebanon. Tell ya what. Let's start the clock on this war at,
say, the assasination of Bobby Kennedy by Sirhan Sirhan, include the
Beiruit truck bombing by reference as a battle, and see how we stand
in a decade or so, shall we?

C'mon, John. Think faster, or something.

Cheers,
RAH



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 8.0.3

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=SOlw
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: This Memorable Day

[John Kelsey]

>From: "R.A. Hettinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Nov 2, 2004 10:55 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: This Memorable Day

...
>Expect more carnage than culture when Bush is elected.

I gather we waited to start the offensive in Fallujah(sp?) until the polls were all 
closed.   I'm not sure how much of this was trying to time things not to interfere 
with the election (the buildup has been going on for awhile, and Kerry could have 
squawked about this but didn't, so presumably he didn't think it was unfair for the 
attack to be delayed a bit), and how much was trying to bury the coverage of a pretty 
bloody battle with a lot of civilians dying and a lot of peoples homes destroyed, 
behind the whole election coverage.  

>Cheers,
>RAH

--John

Re: This Memorable Day

[R.A. Hettinga]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

At 12:50 PM +0100 11/3/04, Nomen Nescio wrote:

>Nonsense! Are you in junior high?

Are you high, junior? Or is it just your politics that sound so...
sophomoric?

:-)

>This post gave me a big laugh. So naive. There are a few basic
>forces feeding extremism and terrorism around the world and those
>are inequalities and injustice anywhere.

Ah. That's right. Inequality, instead of causing progress, causes
damnation. Where's Robespierre when we really need him? Another
useful idiot for "equality".

>As long as the most powerful
>nations of the world continues to exploit the earth's resources
>without taking appropriate considerations to other nations the wrath
>and dismay of people elsewhere will always persist.

Communism, Fuck Yeah!!! States are People Too

Please. Take the towel out from under the dorm-room door and quit
regurgitating what you learned passing the bong around.

"Groups" are not people. They don't have rights, for instance. Only
people have rights. Nation-states are not people either. More the
point, they aren't people in a dialectical struggle to free
themselves from the Oppressive Industrial West, any more than "the
workers" are in a dialectical struggle to free themselves from some
guy in a top-hat and spats.

If you'd learned any history, you'd know that the first argument is
the result of the complete failure of the *premises* of the first to
happen at all, and that both arguments have been demonstrated wrong
in the face of *evidence*: the explosion of the "bourgeoisie" in the
West (that's "middle-class" to those of us with a state-school
education; the group including *you*, bunky, unless your name is Bush
or "Kerry" [really Forbes or Cohn, take your pick] and you went to
say, Andover and Yale), and the explosion of gross domestic product
in the very countries you now claim the west exploits. If you don't
believe that, ask that Sidekick-wearing software engineer in
Bangalore the next time you're talking to a help-desk sometime about
how Nehru, the great Indian Leveller, was such a wonderful guy that
millions of his own countrymen starved during his tenure as the
Indian more equal than all the others. It wasn't until Indians
actually started to free their markets that people stopped starving
in the streets.


Our culture -- yours, too, bunky, since I bet you don't shit into a
hole in the floor and pray 5 times a day for, as Hanson appropriately
calls it, a nuclear caliphate --- has figured out a way to make more
new stuff cheaper, and to continually do it for the last 2500 years
or so. And, guess what? As a result, we can kill more people cheaper,
too.

That means we win wars. That means we'll win this one, too. Because,
if you hadn't noticed, they have to use *our* stuff to fight *us*.
Some around here see that as a bug, of course, but I see that much
more as a feature: I'll see that "bug", raise you a couple of MOABs,
and call the bet.

>Not understanding
>this or simply neglecting it will further add to the negative
>feelings and opinions and fuel extremism.

Ah. That's right. I'm not "nuanced" enough. It's too *complicated*
for anyone who didn't take your sophomore (cryptomarxist) "History
Studies" class, or whatever. Please.

>The only way to move towards a more friendly world is to make people
>feel they are able to share the wealth and prosperity of the world.
>As long as there is one single person anywhere in the world
>hungering to death there is still a basis for fundamentalism and all
>the problem that leads to.

"If we would all just get along", the lion would still eat the lamb
for a mid-afternoon snack, bunky, and then lie down for a nap.
Singing "Kumbaya" in Arabic won't make it happen any different.

More to the point, some mook in chi-pants marching in a black-block
in Seattle advocating the confiscation of what someone *earns* by
*working* is not going to make some *other* islamist mook, who also
got his way paid through college by *his* daddy, to stop building
bombs and crashing airplanes into skyscrapers. What *will* stop mooks
of the latter persuasion is to kill as many of them as possible, and
as quickly as possible. Maybe their parents, too, for raising an
entire generation of ignorant superstitious children. It was ever
thus, however. The Meijii Japanese could *copy*, even perfect,
aircraft and aircraft carriers, but they couldn't *invent* new stuff,
like, say, atom bombs. Only markets can do that, bunky. More to the
point, only markets full of free people arguing their heads off about
what's right and wrong can do that.

>Continuing being arrogant and policing the world without listening
>to the oppressed people in the middle east and elsewhere will never
>ever eradicate terrorism. You may may or may not be able to
>reasonable confidently hinder most terror deeds (but only after
>having turned also the western civilization into police states) but
>you cannot stop the oppressed man from growing the hatred i his

Re: So Who Won?

[R.A. Hettinga]

At 10:54 PM -0800 11/2/04, Eric Cordian wrote:
>So who won the US election?  The turd sandwich, or the giant douche?

The Turd Sandwich, of course...

Vote Turd Sandwich!!!

Advancing the cause of jingoism and darkness,
RAH

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: This Memorable Day

[John Young]

The US has not won since WW2. Rebellions, now called
terrorist wars, have been far more successful. If you want
to be a winner do not enlist in military forces of states, rather
get a spin contract far from danger, arguing the virtues of
mightily fearsome hardware and sacrificial patriotism.

The US, a hidebound state, engages in limited combat, dithers, 
gets youngsters killed, parades the funerals and heroes, eventually 
pulls out, and the apologists for warmongering do their dirty. 

Still, it can be said of US military might: more servicemen die 
of military and civilian accidents, ill health, murders and
suicide than in combat. Worse, deaths and maimings from 
friendly fire and bad medical care, not to say military justice,
remain a high hazard of high technology and a natsec/military
policy of acceptance and/or denial of responsibility for self-
caused casualties and homicidal behavior in abused and
abandoned service members -- Tim McVeigh one of tens
of thousands who attack at home due to momentum rigged
by inept military training and ethics.

Bob Hettinga is just baiting by putting up flimsy arguments
for western supremacy, evangelizing brand USA. Hoovering 
the yokels who cannot not believe their kind are chosen people.
Standard fare of US (Western, all) state-sponsored education 
and religion and, oh my god, journalism.

Quote of the day from the NY Times: "every journalist should
spend a month in jail to appreciate the freedom of the
press." This from a reporter for the Far Eastern Economic
Report, to be closed shortly by Dow Jones.

Re: This Memorable Day

[Nomen Nescio]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

R.A. Hettinga:

> You're gonna love this one: You can't have "terrorism" without
> state sponsors.

Nonsense! Are you in junior high?


> We take out (by whatever means at hand...) state sponsors of
> terrorism, and, hey, presto, no terrorism. Iraq. Syria. Iran.
> Libya. Doesn't look so hard to me. Oh. That's right. Libya rolled
> over.
> 
> Americans -- actually westerners in general -- may win ugly, Peter,
> but, so far, they win.

This post gave me a big laugh. So naive. There are a few basic
forces feeding extremism and terrorism around the world and those are
inequalities and injustice anywhere. As long as the most powerful
nations of the world continues to exploit the earth's resources
without taking appropriate considerations to other nations the wrath
and dismay of people elsewhere will always persist. Not understanding
this or simply neglecting it will further add to the negative
feelings and opinions and fuel extremism.

The only way to move towards a more friendly world is to make
people feel they are able to share the wealth and prosperity of the
world. As long as there is one single person anywhere in the world
hungering to death there is still a basis for fundamentalism and all
the problem that leads to.

Continuing being arrogant and policing the world without
listening to the oppressed people in the middle east and elsewhere
will never ever eradicate terrorism. You may may or may not be able
to reasonable confidently hinder most terror deeds (but only after
having turned also the western civilization into police states) but
you cannot stop the oppressed man from growing the hatred i his mind.

If you do not understand this you are not only unintelligent
IMNSHO but also part of the problem itself.



You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face
reality.
Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.
 (Malcolm X)


Johnny Doelittle


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Re: So Who Won?

[Bill Stewart]

At 10:54 PM 11/2/2004, Eric Cordian wrote:
So who won the US election?  The turd sandwich, or the giant douche?
Cthulhu appears to be way ahead. 

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Re: So Who Won?

[Chuck Wolber]

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Eric Cordian wrote:

> So who won the US election?  The turd sandwich, or the giant douche?

Which witch is which... Ohio is still in play, all the rest are pretty 
much decided. Ohio has 120,000-ish provisional ballots and about 300,000 
regular votes yet to be counted. The spread is about 120,000 in favor of 
Bush.

-Chuck


-- 
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