Re: [frissell@panix.com: What's Our National Identity?]

2001-12-10 Thread Declan McCullagh

On Sun, Dec 09, 2001 at 03:37:52AM -0800, Tim wrote:
 this ID card is going to commonly be used as more than an identification
 card is itself irresponsible, until he can offer something a little bit
 more cogently persuasive.

Of course proposals that have been floated, the trend in
databasification, and Duncan's own knowledge in this area are
pretty persuasive. 

-Declan




Re: [frissell@panix.com: What's Our National Identity?]

2001-12-09 Thread Tim

 Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:14:10 -0500
 From: Duncan Frissell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: What's Our National Identity?
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 http://sierratimes.com/archive/files/dec/06/eddf120601.htm
 
 What's Our National Identity?
 By Duncan Frissell 12.06.01
 
 A National ID card is *not* really about identity. It is about
 authorization.

  And if you get the ID card, you're authorized! It's not like people
have to present it  have a mag-strip swiped, then wait for some sort of
approval!  But even if it were, most of us go through that on a daily
basis with credit/debit cards, and a similar process with checks.

  I dunno about in Duncan's world, but in my world, some people also use
U.S. currency, printed by the US gov't  with unique serial #s.  Since
they print it  the Federal Reserve manages it, I suppose that's also
authorization.

 ...
 When you present your National ID to complete a transaction, you will
 actually be asking the Federal Government for its permission. It
 converts most significant transactions that you make from private ones
 to public ones. It creates a government license for all jobs, all
 travel, all medical care, and many purchases. This is a profoundly
 troubling departure from American traditions.

  The only thing troubled is Duncan's intellect.  On a routine basis, we
already use government-issued identification, which in his warped mind,
means we ask for the government's permission to drive a car, fly on a
commercial airline, enter  exit the country, etc.  Not too many
problems with it -- hell, the gov't gave 'permission' for the
Talibandits to fly on commercial flights, right?

   Seems to me that the national ID card concept is just going to be a 
universal, easily carried identification document with major
counter-forgery measures.  And yes, like most other pieces of ID, it'd
be tied into some sort of database.   But Duncan's vision that somehow
this ID card is going to commonly be used as more than an identification
card is itself irresponsible, until he can offer something a little bit
more cogently persuasive.


  Tim Tyler
 ...
 
 DCF