Re: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd)
on Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 12:08:43AM -0500, Declan McCullagh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I suspect would be silly to stage an anti-DMCA protest against an invited speaker to that Stanford class. Lessig, Gilmore, Barlow, Farber, and Stallman have been speakers (and I'm scheduled to be in the spring lineup). Gilmore and others have also been audience members. The CPRM lecture was attended by John, myself, and other concerned community members. At the very least, it makes sense to find out more about the program and have a cordial conversation with the organizers before rushing to stage a demonstration. Activist-hours are a scarce resource; use them prudently, carefully, and wisely. The forums are *open to the public*. A proportionate response is both expected and apprpriate. Why should a presentation at this venue be any different from protests of immoral principles or activities in any other context? Peace. -- Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of Gestalt don't you understand? Moderator, Free Software Law Discussion mailing list: http://lists.alt.org/mailman/listinfo/fsl-discuss/
Re: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd)
on Mon, Jan 20, 2003 at 12:08:43AM -0500, Declan McCullagh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I suspect would be silly to stage an anti-DMCA protest against an invited speaker to that Stanford class. Lessig, Gilmore, Barlow, Farber, and Stallman have been speakers (and I'm scheduled to be in the spring lineup). Gilmore and others have also been audience members. The CPRM lecture was attended by John, myself, and other concerned community members. At the very least, it makes sense to find out more about the program and have a cordial conversation with the organizers before rushing to stage a demonstration. Activist-hours are a scarce resource; use them prudently, carefully, and wisely. The forums are *open to the public*. A proportionate response is both expected and apprpriate. Why should a presentation at this venue be any different from protests of immoral principles or activities in any other context? Peace. -- Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of Gestalt don't you understand? Moderator, Free Software Law Discussion mailing list: http://lists.alt.org/mailman/listinfo/fsl-discuss/
Re: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd)
On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 09:08 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote: I suspect would be silly to stage an anti-DMCA protest against an invited speaker to that Stanford class. Lessig, Gilmore, Barlow, Farber, and Stallman have been speakers (and I'm scheduled to be in the spring lineup). At the very least, it makes sense to find out more about the program and have a cordial conversation with the organizers before rushing to stage a demonstration. Activist-hours are a scarce resource; use them prudently, carefully, and wisely. I've been to a few of these, and once spoke at one, circa 1993. IMO, nearly worthless. Thinking about how little can get covered in an hour at a Cypherpunks meeting, imagine what happens in any particular one hour of one of these things: just enough time to establish a few basic points, hit on some of the current issues, and take some questions. For the actual students, not so bad, as they're getting 15 or so of these lectures per semester, and the intent is to provide a survey of topics. (Strangely enough, 15 times nearly worthless is OK...for a survey class!) The point is that anyone already familiar with the topic or the issues will not learn anything. Which leaves arguing with the speaker as the only reason for going...and arguing with the speaker is not worthwhile, given the extreme constraints on time. And given the usual pointlessness of arguing with others. --Tim May
Re: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd)
I suspect would be silly to stage an anti-DMCA protest against an invited speaker to that Stanford class. Lessig, Gilmore, Barlow, Farber, and Stallman have been speakers (and I'm scheduled to be in the spring lineup). At the very least, it makes sense to find out more about the program and have a cordial conversation with the organizers before rushing to stage a demonstration. Activist-hours are a scarce resource; use them prudently, carefully, and wisely. -Declan Forwarded to cypherpunks: -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:25:10 -0800 From: Larry M. Augustin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Don Marti' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Karsten M. Self' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers I think that it would be a big mistake to do anything that might be viewed as even the slightest bit disruptive in this venue. Further, I think you're jumping to conclusions to assume that the DMCA is relevant to these speakers. Dennis Allison and John Wharton, both of whom I have known for years, are sympathetic to free software and sympathetic to the problems with the DMCA. Dennis regularly brings in Bruce, Eric, and Richard as speakers. I've spoken at this seminar on 2 or 3 occasions. Bruce was just there a few weeks ago talking about the RAND vs. RF patent policy issues. Cops have a tough job. They deserve our thanks for doing a tough job. I have a number of close friends who are cops. I think they deserve more benefit of doubt than Target the _speakers_ and _philosophy_. It doesn't sound like these are people that write the laws or make policy. Maybe they spend their time fighting real computer crime like identity theft and crackers. They deserve our support in that job. Has anyone talked to Dennis? Before jumping to any conclusions, or organizing any kind of protest or demonstration, talk to Dennis. Larry on Friday, January 17, 2003 6:46 PM Karsten M. Self wrote on Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 05:08:47PM -0800, Don Marti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Richard Stallman just passed this along to me. I won't be around, since I'll be in New York for LinuxWorld, but someone else might want to organize a group of freedom-loving people to go and hand out some anti-DMCA flyers, ask good questions, and so on. How can you enforce laws that ban Academic Freedom in computer science and then walk into a university and ask for help? Remember, protests and demonstrations are GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH. Note that the CSL Colloquia are a great opportunity to meet with all sorts of folks on all aspects of technology. The faculty, particularly John Wharton, are very aware that they offer an opening for the public, and the range of viewpoints presented is large (Lessig spoke at the CSL a year ago). Target the _speakers_ and _philosophy_, not the program itself. That said -- go forth and make a joyous noise ;-) http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2u=/nm/20021223/hl_nm/protests _demonstrations_dc COMPUTER SYSTEMS LABORATORY COLLOQUIUM 4:15PM, Wednesday, Jan 22, 2003 NEC Auditorium, Gates Computer Science Building B03 http://ee380.stanford.edu[1] Topic:Solving High Technology Crime Academic Partnership in Crime Fighting Speaker: Gregory S. Crabb United States Postal Inspector San Francisco Electronic Crimes Task Force Other participants include: Robert Rodriguez, Assistant Special Agent in Charge, United States Secret Service Richard Perlotto, Cisco Systems Chris Lalone, Network Security, eBay Mike Miravalle, CEO, Dolphin Technologies Fred Demma, Dolphon Technologyies ... -- Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of Gestalt don't you understand? Geek for hire: http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html ___ linux-elitists http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-elitists ___ linux-elitists http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-elitists
Re: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd)
On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 09:08 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote: I suspect would be silly to stage an anti-DMCA protest against an invited speaker to that Stanford class. Lessig, Gilmore, Barlow, Farber, and Stallman have been speakers (and I'm scheduled to be in the spring lineup). At the very least, it makes sense to find out more about the program and have a cordial conversation with the organizers before rushing to stage a demonstration. Activist-hours are a scarce resource; use them prudently, carefully, and wisely. I've been to a few of these, and once spoke at one, circa 1993. IMO, nearly worthless. Thinking about how little can get covered in an hour at a Cypherpunks meeting, imagine what happens in any particular one hour of one of these things: just enough time to establish a few basic points, hit on some of the current issues, and take some questions. For the actual students, not so bad, as they're getting 15 or so of these lectures per semester, and the intent is to provide a survey of topics. (Strangely enough, 15 times nearly worthless is OK...for a survey class!) The point is that anyone already familiar with the topic or the issues will not learn anything. Which leaves arguing with the speaker as the only reason for going...and arguing with the speaker is not worthwhile, given the extreme constraints on time. And given the usual pointlessness of arguing with others. --Tim May
RE: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd)
Hold your fire for a moment. Could be hitting the wrong ones. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:25:10 -0800 From: Larry M. Augustin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Don Marti' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Karsten M. Self' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers I think that it would be a big mistake to do anything that might be viewed as even the slightest bit disruptive in this venue. Further, I think you're jumping to conclusions to assume that the DMCA is relevant to these speakers. Dennis Allison and John Wharton, both of whom I have known for years, are sympathetic to free software and sympathetic to the problems with the DMCA. Dennis regularly brings in Bruce, Eric, and Richard as speakers. I've spoken at this seminar on 2 or 3 occasions. Bruce was just there a few weeks ago talking about the RAND vs. RF patent policy issues. Cops have a tough job. They deserve our thanks for doing a tough job. I have a number of close friends who are cops. I think they deserve more benefit of doubt than Target the _speakers_ and _philosophy_. It doesn't sound like these are people that write the laws or make policy. Maybe they spend their time fighting real computer crime like identity theft and crackers. They deserve our support in that job. Has anyone talked to Dennis? Before jumping to any conclusions, or organizing any kind of protest or demonstration, talk to Dennis. Larry on Friday, January 17, 2003 6:46 PM Karsten M. Self wrote on Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 05:08:47PM -0800, Don Marti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Richard Stallman just passed this along to me. I won't be around, since I'll be in New York for LinuxWorld, but someone else might want to organize a group of freedom-loving people to go and hand out some anti-DMCA flyers, ask good questions, and so on. How can you enforce laws that ban Academic Freedom in computer science and then walk into a university and ask for help? Remember, protests and demonstrations are GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH. Note that the CSL Colloquia are a great opportunity to meet with all sorts of folks on all aspects of technology. The faculty, particularly John Wharton, are very aware that they offer an opening for the public, and the range of viewpoints presented is large (Lessig spoke at the CSL a year ago). Target the _speakers_ and _philosophy_, not the program itself. That said -- go forth and make a joyous noise ;-) http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2u=/nm/20021223/hl_nm/protests _demonstrations_dc COMPUTER SYSTEMS LABORATORY COLLOQUIUM 4:15PM, Wednesday, Jan 22, 2003 NEC Auditorium, Gates Computer Science Building B03 http://ee380.stanford.edu[1] Topic:Solving High Technology Crime Academic Partnership in Crime Fighting Speaker: Gregory S. Crabb United States Postal Inspector San Francisco Electronic Crimes Task Force Other participants include: Robert Rodriguez, Assistant Special Agent in Charge, United States Secret Service Richard Perlotto, Cisco Systems Chris Lalone, Network Security, eBay Mike Miravalle, CEO, Dolphin Technologies Fred Demma, Dolphon Technologyies ... -- Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of Gestalt don't you understand? Geek for hire: http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html ___ linux-elitists http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-elitists ___ linux-elitists http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-elitists
RE: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd)
Based on Larry Augustin's apology for cops and his avowed closeness to them, a protest is even more deserved against him if not the other participants. Larry appears to be quoting from the COPS PR manual for garnering public support to offset deserved criticism of official misbehavior. Larry is not alone in seeing the lucrative benefits of defending the giant law enforcement and national security industries, why you can read the turncoats all around the world of digital opportunity going on about the need for vigilance on the dangerous Net and worse, advocating prowling Intel-inside private computers networks to spot looming threats. As just one example see Counterpane's recent crowing about success, one of its lengthening series of warnings about the need for more and more security against the dangerous digital hordes, and less and less warnings about the need to protect against official and commercial invaders who are handing out lucrative contracts to Net security firms and professionals. Nothng like a fat bribe to convert pagans to organized terrorists screaming beware the sinners. Hmm, wasn't St. Augustine a prime role model for that crossover, as if Larry Augustin is a namesake. To be sure, informers are best recruited from the pagans for they know how to magnify the hazards of their clan. At 12:00 PM 1/19/2003 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: Hold your fire for a moment. Could be hitting the wrong ones. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:25:10 -0800 From: Larry M. Augustin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Don Marti' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Karsten M. Self' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers I think that it would be a big mistake to do anything that might be viewed as even the slightest bit disruptive in this venue. Further, I think you're jumping to conclusions to assume that the DMCA is relevant to these speakers. Dennis Allison and John Wharton, both of whom I have known for years, are sympathetic to free software and sympathetic to the problems with the DMCA. Dennis regularly brings in Bruce, Eric, and Richard as speakers. I've spoken at this seminar on 2 or 3 occasions. Bruce was just there a few weeks ago talking about the RAND vs. RF patent policy issues. Cops have a tough job. They deserve our thanks for doing a tough job. I have a number of close friends who are cops. I think they deserve more benefit of doubt than Target the _speakers_ and _philosophy_. It doesn't sound like these are people that write the laws or make policy. Maybe they spend their time fighting real computer crime like identity theft and crackers. They deserve our support in that job. Has anyone talked to Dennis? Before jumping to any conclusions, or organizing any kind of protest or demonstration, talk to Dennis. Larry
RE: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd)
Hold your fire for a moment. Could be hitting the wrong ones. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:25:10 -0800 From: Larry M. Augustin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Don Marti' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Karsten M. Self' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers I think that it would be a big mistake to do anything that might be viewed as even the slightest bit disruptive in this venue. Further, I think you're jumping to conclusions to assume that the DMCA is relevant to these speakers. Dennis Allison and John Wharton, both of whom I have known for years, are sympathetic to free software and sympathetic to the problems with the DMCA. Dennis regularly brings in Bruce, Eric, and Richard as speakers. I've spoken at this seminar on 2 or 3 occasions. Bruce was just there a few weeks ago talking about the RAND vs. RF patent policy issues. Cops have a tough job. They deserve our thanks for doing a tough job. I have a number of close friends who are cops. I think they deserve more benefit of doubt than Target the _speakers_ and _philosophy_. It doesn't sound like these are people that write the laws or make policy. Maybe they spend their time fighting real computer crime like identity theft and crackers. They deserve our support in that job. Has anyone talked to Dennis? Before jumping to any conclusions, or organizing any kind of protest or demonstration, talk to Dennis. Larry on Friday, January 17, 2003 6:46 PM Karsten M. Self wrote on Fri, Jan 17, 2003 at 05:08:47PM -0800, Don Marti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Richard Stallman just passed this along to me. I won't be around, since I'll be in New York for LinuxWorld, but someone else might want to organize a group of freedom-loving people to go and hand out some anti-DMCA flyers, ask good questions, and so on. How can you enforce laws that ban Academic Freedom in computer science and then walk into a university and ask for help? Remember, protests and demonstrations are GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH. Note that the CSL Colloquia are a great opportunity to meet with all sorts of folks on all aspects of technology. The faculty, particularly John Wharton, are very aware that they offer an opening for the public, and the range of viewpoints presented is large (Lessig spoke at the CSL a year ago). Target the _speakers_ and _philosophy_, not the program itself. That said -- go forth and make a joyous noise ;-) http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2u=/nm/20021223/hl_nm/protests _demonstrations_dc COMPUTER SYSTEMS LABORATORY COLLOQUIUM 4:15PM, Wednesday, Jan 22, 2003 NEC Auditorium, Gates Computer Science Building B03 http://ee380.stanford.edu[1] Topic:Solving High Technology Crime Academic Partnership in Crime Fighting Speaker: Gregory S. Crabb United States Postal Inspector San Francisco Electronic Crimes Task Force Other participants include: Robert Rodriguez, Assistant Special Agent in Charge, United States Secret Service Richard Perlotto, Cisco Systems Chris Lalone, Network Security, eBay Mike Miravalle, CEO, Dolphin Technologies Fred Demma, Dolphon Technologyies ... -- Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of Gestalt don't you understand? Geek for hire: http://kmself.home.netcom.com/resume.html ___ linux-elitists http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-elitists ___ linux-elitists http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-elitists
RE: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd)
Based on Larry Augustin's apology for cops and his avowed closeness to them, a protest is even more deserved against him if not the other participants. Larry appears to be quoting from the COPS PR manual for garnering public support to offset deserved criticism of official misbehavior. Larry is not alone in seeing the lucrative benefits of defending the giant law enforcement and national security industries, why you can read the turncoats all around the world of digital opportunity going on about the need for vigilance on the dangerous Net and worse, advocating prowling Intel-inside private computers networks to spot looming threats. As just one example see Counterpane's recent crowing about success, one of its lengthening series of warnings about the need for more and more security against the dangerous digital hordes, and less and less warnings about the need to protect against official and commercial invaders who are handing out lucrative contracts to Net security firms and professionals. Nothng like a fat bribe to convert pagans to organized terrorists screaming beware the sinners. Hmm, wasn't St. Augustine a prime role model for that crossover, as if Larry Augustin is a namesake. To be sure, informers are best recruited from the pagans for they know how to magnify the hazards of their clan. At 12:00 PM 1/19/2003 +0100, Eugen Leitl wrote: Hold your fire for a moment. Could be hitting the wrong ones. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 00:25:10 -0800 From: Larry M. Augustin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Don Marti' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Karsten M. Self' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers I think that it would be a big mistake to do anything that might be viewed as even the slightest bit disruptive in this venue. Further, I think you're jumping to conclusions to assume that the DMCA is relevant to these speakers. Dennis Allison and John Wharton, both of whom I have known for years, are sympathetic to free software and sympathetic to the problems with the DMCA. Dennis regularly brings in Bruce, Eric, and Richard as speakers. I've spoken at this seminar on 2 or 3 occasions. Bruce was just there a few weeks ago talking about the RAND vs. RF patent policy issues. Cops have a tough job. They deserve our thanks for doing a tough job. I have a number of close friends who are cops. I think they deserve more benefit of doubt than Target the _speakers_ and _philosophy_. It doesn't sound like these are people that write the laws or make policy. Maybe they spend their time fighting real computer crime like identity theft and crackers. They deserve our support in that job. Has anyone talked to Dennis? Before jumping to any conclusions, or organizing any kind of protest or demonstration, talk to Dennis. Larry
[linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 17:08:47 -0800 From: Don Marti [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [linux-elitists] LOCAL Stanford University: face down the DMCA enforcers Richard Stallman just passed this along to me. I won't be around, since I'll be in New York for LinuxWorld, but someone else might want to organize a group of freedom-loving people to go and hand out some anti-DMCA flyers, ask good questions, and so on. How can you enforce laws that ban Academic Freedom in computer science and then walk into a university and ask for help? Remember, protests and demonstrations are GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2u=/nm/20021223/hl_nm/protests_demonstrations_dc COMPUTER SYSTEMS LABORATORY COLLOQUIUM 4:15PM, Wednesday, Jan 22, 2003 NEC Auditorium, Gates Computer Science Building B03 http://ee380.stanford.edu[1] Topic:Solving High Technology Crime Academic Partnership in Crime Fighting Speaker: Gregory S. Crabb United States Postal Inspector San Francisco Electronic Crimes Task Force Other participants include: Robert Rodriguez, Assistant Special Agent in Charge, United States Secret Service Richard Perlotto, Cisco Systems Chris Lalone, Network Security, eBay Mike Miravalle, CEO, Dolphin Technologies Fred Demma, Dolphon Technologyies About the talk: The San Francisco Electronic Crimes Task Force seeks to engage the academic community to help us address the technology crimes affecting our community, our corporate partners and law enforcement. The crimes affecting our corporate partners include computer hacking, intellectual property crimes (criminal trademark and copyright infringement) and identity theft. These crimes are costing the high technology community billions of dollars and stunting the acceptance and growth of these technologies to support our economy. Antiquated investigative methods and poor individual accountability for Internet communications are some of the greatest challenges facing law enforcement. The solution to some of these challenges may lie within the academic community. The talk will focus on several brief case studies relating our greatest challenges in fighting high technology crime. Each case study will be presented by a law enforcement agent and/or corporate partner of the task force. About the speaker: The San Francisco Electronic Crimes Task Force is a group of Federal, state, local investigators and corporate partners, lead by the U.S. Secret Service, focused on attacking high technology crime affecting Bay Area companies, locally and globally. The task force is part of the Secret Service's nation-wide network of electronic crimes task forces, see http://www.ectaskforce.org[2]. Contact information: San Francisco Electronic Crimes Task Force 345 Spear St San Francisco, CA (415) 744-9026 Acknowledgements: Thanks to the Computer Forum[3] and to Professors Dan Boneh and John Mitchell for assistance in organizing this event. Embedded Links: [ 1 ]http://ee380.stanford.edu [ 2 ]http://www.ectaskforce.org [ 3 ]http://www-forum.stanford.edu --- End of forwarded message --- - End forwarded message - ___ linux-elitists http://zgp.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-elitists
