Re: Are the Feds Wimps or What?
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Optimizzin Al-gorithym wrote: I'm back to not showing ID to get into work just like before the war. Well, you showed it to them enough times, they believe you now :-) Maybe it was the 14 years they'd been seeing me. I actually didn't show it that much even during the early part of the war. I often went to the back of the building and entered using the electronic lock. DCF
Are the Feds Wimps or What?
So far the massive crackdown by the Feds that has stripped me of my civil liberties hasn't managed to do much. They have to work a bit harder. I'm back to not showing ID to get into work just like before the war. The states where I choose not to obtain a drivers license have upped their ID requirements for initial license applications but I already have one and don't patronize them in any case. They still let foreigners drive with foreign licenses so I will become a foreigner if they get too uppity. Flight delays only slightly worse than usual (particularly since I mostly fly internationally and have always shown my passport). Domestic flight ID fascism is 6 years old this August so no change there. As far as we know, only a little more than 1000 detained out of a pop of 270 megs. I was expecting that we would at least make WWII levels -- 200,000+ out of a population of 132 megs. I guess there could be a few more internees but they'd be tough to hide. Too many others would note their absence. I thinks the Feds are just to wimpy to indulge in actual oppression these days. At least on a wholesale basis. Maybe I'm wrong but I need more evidence first. -- Posted by Duncan Frissell to The Technoptimist at 7/20/2002 9:06:27 PM Powered by Blogger Pro
RE: Are the Feds Wimps or What?
Duncan Frissell[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] So far the massive crackdown by the Feds that has stripped me of my civil liberties hasn't managed to do much. They have to work a bit harder. I'm back to not showing ID to get into work just like before the war. The states where I choose not to obtain a drivers license have upped their ID requirements for initial license applications but I already have one and don't patronize them in any case. They still let foreigners drive with foreign licenses so I will become a foreigner if they get too uppity. Flight delays only slightly worse than usual (particularly since I mostly fly internationally and have always shown my passport). Domestic flight ID fascism is 6 years old this August so no change there. As far as we know, only a little more than 1000 detained out of a pop of 270 megs. I was expecting that we would at least make WWII levels -- 200,000+ out of a population of 132 megs. I guess there could be a few more internees but they'd be tough to hide. Too many others would note their absence. I thinks the Feds are just to wimpy to indulge in actual oppression these days. At least on a wholesale basis. Maybe I'm wrong but I need more evidence first. -- Posted by Duncan Frissell to The Technoptimist at 7/20/2002 9:06:27 PM Powered by Blogger Pro Well, the other possible interpretation is that the Feds are not black-at-heart, Big Brother, neo Stalinist fascist JBTs pouncing on any opportunity to make confetti of the Bill of Rights; but rather are actually trying to respond to 9/11 with a minimal impact on US Citizens. ...but of course, that would be an unpopular interpretation on this mailing list. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. Peter Trei
RE: Are the Feds Wimps or What?
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:43:36 -0400, you wrote: Well, the other possible interpretation is that the Feds are not black-at-heart, Big Brother, neo Stalinist fascist JBTs pouncing on any opportunity to make confetti of the Bill of Rights; but rather are actually trying to respond to 9/11 with a minimal impact on US Citizens. ...but of course, that would be an unpopular interpretation on this mailing list. Popularity, or lack thereof, of acts and plans by the government, which the government itself holds secret, provides little support for the fascisim arising school, nor for the just looking out for our citizens school. We are left to look back to history, and to see if we find any pattern of result from when extensive surveillance power, secret courts, secret detentions, suspension of the writ of habeas corpus, all during an undeclared war. Or we can see if we believe that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. But beyond this, did you see George W. Bush smile just after 9/11 when he said This war is going to take a very long time? Do you recall the popularity of Winston Churchill during WWII, and how he was immediately dumped after the German surrender? Do you recall how the US-Iraq war took Bush I to grand heights of popularity, but by election time, the war was over, there were no heroes marching, and it came down to it's the economy stupid? Now what did Bush II learn from this: Either 1) Make sure that Americans know you are on top of their concerns about the economy and you know how it is affecting everyday people, and keep the economy going strong. or 2) Even if there are no attacks on the US by Al Qaeda after 9/11, keep a war hysteria going and show military force as the basis of maintaining wartime support levels from wartime patriotism.
RE: Are the Feds Wimps or What?
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: Well, the other possible interpretation is that the Feds are not black-at-heart, Big Brother, neo Stalinist fascist JBTs pouncing on any opportunity to make confetti of the Bill of Rights; but rather are actually trying to respond to 9/11 with a minimal impact on US Citizens. ...but of course, that would be an unpopular interpretation on this mailing list. I agree. I assume that they have enough on their hands without adding wholesale oppression. Takes time. Very expensive. That's one of the advantages of an advanced market economy. Salaries and other operating costs are high and the wealth of your adversaries is also so high that unless you're making a profit on the transaction it's hard to buy too much of something even if that something is oppression. If the activity to be regulated doubles in size, the regulators had better double in number too or they begin to fall behind. SEC? Markets can adapt to demand changes because the actors are self-financing in the long run so they scale well. Government actors aren't self-financed (only a small number are in charge of theft) so scaling is difficult. Also voluntary transactions are easier to complete than coerced transactions (think prostitution vs. rape) since there is no resistance. We'll see. DCF Governments do not become nicer or nastier because of their capabilities and attitudes. They become nastier or nicer because of *our* capabilities and attitudes.
Re: Are the Feds Wimps or What?
At 11:15 AM 7/22/02 -0400, Duncan Frissell wrote: So far the massive crackdown by the Feds that has stripped me of my civil liberties hasn't managed to do much. They have to work a bit harder. I'm back to not showing ID to get into work just like before the war. Well, you showed it to them enough times, they believe you now :-)
RE: Are the Feds Wimps or What?
Duncan Frissell[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] So far the massive crackdown by the Feds that has stripped me of my civil liberties hasn't managed to do much. They have to work a bit harder. I'm back to not showing ID to get into work just like before the war. The states where I choose not to obtain a drivers license have upped their ID requirements for initial license applications but I already have one and don't patronize them in any case. They still let foreigners drive with foreign licenses so I will become a foreigner if they get too uppity. Flight delays only slightly worse than usual (particularly since I mostly fly internationally and have always shown my passport). Domestic flight ID fascism is 6 years old this August so no change there. As far as we know, only a little more than 1000 detained out of a pop of 270 megs. I was expecting that we would at least make WWII levels -- 200,000+ out of a population of 132 megs. I guess there could be a few more internees but they'd be tough to hide. Too many others would note their absence. I thinks the Feds are just to wimpy to indulge in actual oppression these days. At least on a wholesale basis. Maybe I'm wrong but I need more evidence first. -- Posted by Duncan Frissell to The Technoptimist at 7/20/2002 9:06:27 PM Powered by Blogger Pro Well, the other possible interpretation is that the Feds are not black-at-heart, Big Brother, neo Stalinist fascist JBTs pouncing on any opportunity to make confetti of the Bill of Rights; but rather are actually trying to respond to 9/11 with a minimal impact on US Citizens. ...but of course, that would be an unpopular interpretation on this mailing list. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. Peter Trei
RE: Are the Feds Wimps or What?
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: Well, the other possible interpretation is that the Feds are not black-at-heart, Big Brother, neo Stalinist fascist JBTs pouncing on any opportunity to make confetti of the Bill of Rights; but rather are actually trying to respond to 9/11 with a minimal impact on US Citizens. ...but of course, that would be an unpopular interpretation on this mailing list. I agree. I assume that they have enough on their hands without adding wholesale oppression. Takes time. Very expensive. That's one of the advantages of an advanced market economy. Salaries and other operating costs are high and the wealth of your adversaries is also so high that unless you're making a profit on the transaction it's hard to buy too much of something even if that something is oppression. If the activity to be regulated doubles in size, the regulators had better double in number too or they begin to fall behind. SEC? Markets can adapt to demand changes because the actors are self-financing in the long run so they scale well. Government actors aren't self-financed (only a small number are in charge of theft) so scaling is difficult. Also voluntary transactions are easier to complete than coerced transactions (think prostitution vs. rape) since there is no resistance. We'll see. DCF Governments do not become nicer or nastier because of their capabilities and attitudes. They become nastier or nicer because of *our* capabilities and attitudes.
Re: Are the Feds Wimps or What?
At 11:15 AM 7/22/02 -0400, Duncan Frissell wrote: So far the massive crackdown by the Feds that has stripped me of my civil liberties hasn't managed to do much. They have to work a bit harder. I'm back to not showing ID to get into work just like before the war. Well, you showed it to them enough times, they believe you now :-)
