Re: CDR: Re: End of the IRS??
Hey folks - you need to keep in mind that the "not ratified" argument is not what will be discussed, and for obvious reasons. The IRS is not competent to comment on whether their marching orders were or were not properly ratified by the People. It is the actual content of their statutory authority that is in question. What WILL be discussed is the simple fact that, to make the current internal revenue code constitutional (two previous attempts having been overturned by the courts), those framing it simply omitted to require people to do any action that government had no authority to require. Instead, taxes are collected from multitudes who don't owe them by suckering them into "voluntary" self-assessment. Once they have declared themselves "taxpayers" - usually by declaring themselves "US citizens" (federal subjects who have no Constitutional or Common Law protection) on an SSN application - the courts use tricks of equity contract law (which apparently doesn't require knowing consent) to force them to file information returns and pay tax. Various strategies for undoing the damage have been tried with varying degrees of success. Irwin Schiff is the most successful of the strategists, having successfully practiced what he preaches for decades. The best strategy for most individuals is not to rely on courts (staffed by beneficiaries of the fraudulent tax), but simply to drop out of the system. Nobody pays any attention to notices of SSN revocation, but if you simply stop using the one assigned you - that does work. Few employers have the courage to refuse an IRS Notice of Levy, however obviously illegal it is - so employ yourself. And so on. As time passes, Atlas shrugs; the smartest and most productive get out first, leaving sheeple as both beneficiaries and sole contributors to the fraudulent system that they inhabit. It has been happening in my lifetime: people who, forty years ago, would have had no choice but corporate employment with all the liabilities that implies, now would not consider working for anyone but themselves. Hang 'em high? Why bother. Make 'em ineffectual! Marc de Piolenc Petro wrote: > > On Monday, January 7, 2002, at 09:00 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > I've never quite understood how the > > amendment-not-ratified-properly-in-1913 > > argument is supposed to play out.
Re: CDR: Re: End of the IRS??
Thanks Mattd :-) On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 11:38:57 -0800 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: CDR: Re: End of the IRS?? > > At 12:00 AM 1/8/2002 -0500, Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I've never quite understood how the amendment-not-ratified-properly-in-1913 > argument is supposed to play out. > > >If this were 1915 and we suddenly realized that there was some funny > business going on, that would be one thing. > > >But much has changed in the last 90 or so years. Courts have allowed > the federal government to seize power not granted by the Constitution > (and, in some cases, strictly prohibited by it). Booze prohibition > required a constitutional amendment; drug prohibition wouldn't. > > All the more reason to go on a mindless killing spree. > > > >So even if someone were to prove that the 16th Am. wasn't quite kosher, > what would stop the courts from saying -- it wasn't necessary? > > No but it would provide whatever moral basis one needs to terminate the vermin with >extreme prejudice. What's needed are a few terminally ill militia minded souls to >give up their last few weeks for the cause. I know I wouldn't hesitate. Maybe an >anon cash pool, collected after the fact, to support these patriots' families could >be used to offer additional incentive. > > "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; > when the government fears the people, there is liberty " > --- Thomas Jefferson > > -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place...
Re: CDR: Re: End of the IRS??
> >Department of Justice U.S. Assistant Attorney Dan Bryant and Congressman > >Roscoe Bartlett (MD) signed a written agreement on July 20, 2001, for a > >recorded public hearing at which DOJ representatives will officially > >answer specific legal charges challenging the jurisdiction of the IRS and > >the illegal enforcement of U.S. income tax laws against U.S. citizens. IRS > >Commissioner Charles Rossotti has committed IRS representatives to > >participate. Since they have decided to "officially answer", it is obvious that it doesn't matter. They are either going to maintain that ratification was irrelevent, or that an act once recognized is taken as fact even if false (i.e., Shrubs ascedancy comes to mind). Does anyone really believe they are going to say "Oops! You're right, we aren't constitutional, so we're just going to disband."??? Um, yeah. Right... -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place...
