Re: Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering 2002 - CFP

[Dan Geer]

Peter,

>   Does anyone know what happened to the Usenix e-commerce
>   conferences?  They were in the vein of what FC used to be ...
>   there's also the EC-Web conference, although that has more of an
>   emphasis on web technology than EC.

I founded this series in 1995 and was proud to have done so; we ran
them in 1996 and 1998 as well, but the cutting edge quickly moved
away from USENIX's core and forte to where every conference organizer
on the planet had an e-commerce workshop of some sort up and running.
Whether these were technical, financial or sheer hype, the noise factor
was too great and we (USENIX Board of Directors) moved on to other
things where we could make a difference without having to wage an
advertising war in the middle of an investment bubble.

I'm open to suggestions, of course, but in the meantime you might
enjoy reminiscing about 1995 as seen through this lens:

http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/ec95/index.html

--dan
(current usenix president)

Re: Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering 2002 - CFP

[Peter Gutmann]

Dan Geer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>I founded this series in 1995 and was proud to have done so; we ran them in
>1996 and 1998 as well, but the cutting edge quickly moved away from USENIX's
>core and forte to where every conference organizer on the planet had an e-
>commerce workshop of some sort up and running.

Unfortunately they've become either just another Crypto clone (FC in the last
year or two) or a collection of XML/J2EE/buzzword-du-jour be-ins (all the
rest).  The world still needs a good, technical e-commerce security conference
which isn't one of the above.

>I'm open to suggestions, of course,

I'd love to see it resurrected.  While I can't really organise it because of
where I am, I'd be happy to referee papes or whatever.  Having served on PCs
for several other security conferences, I've seen enough papers of the
appropriate kind submitted elsewhere to indicate that there'd be enough for an
e-commerce security conference (in other words there's no shortage of material
there).  The Usenix one, during its short lifetime, attracted some really good
papers.

Peter.

Re: Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering 2002 - CFP

[R. A. Hettinga]

At 6:40 PM +1200 on 5/13/02, Peter Gutmann wrote:


> Phew, at least I'm not the only one who's been thinking that (I grumbled
>to one
> of the organisers a while back that they ought to rename it BermudaCrypt

I guess the kicker for me came in Cayman, when they took an hour and a half
session before lunch *and* extended it over for two hours, including lunch,
talking about voting and the "theft" of the Florida election, and didn't
say the "e" word (equity) once in that whole time, until I brought it to
their attention in Q&A.

Notice that with equity, you *want* to sell your vote, you don't *care* who
you sell it to, and you don't *need* any credentials to vote except, say, a
Chaumian bearer certificate as proof you own that many shares, and
certainly not any of that "is a person" cruft required for political voting
schemes which had so many of the World's Best Cryptographers on that
panel's panties in such a bunch...


Financial cryptography is not political cryptography, boys and girls, and,
like I say all too much, financial crypto is the only crypto that matters.

(Just to fan the flames a little higher, I define "political cryptography"
as that crypto designed to be used for, or against, nation states, and
financial crypto as, for the most part, everything else. I would claim that
as more money moves to the net for transmission, for transaction execution,
and asset storage, political crypto will begin to look more and more like
"kid-sister" crypto compared to that used in finance. Eventually, as Diffie
almost said once :-), "Infowar" will be fought between businesses, and not
nations.)

Cheers,
RAH
Who couldn't afford to go this year. :-).

-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering 2002 - CFP

[Peter Gutmann]

Ian Grigg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>Very different animal :-)  The original goal for a mixed business and law and
>accounting and a tad of crypto was perverted into YACC - yet another crypto
>conference - and became very academic, very mathematical, very crypto, very
>junior, and very ignorable.

Phew, at least I'm not the only one who's been thinking that (I grumbled to one
of the organisers a while back that they ought to rename it BermudaCrypt, since
it was that in all but name anyway).  Does anyone know what happened to the
Usenix e-commerce conferences?  They were in the vein of what FC used to be...
there's also the EC-Web conference, although that has more of an emphasis on
web technology than EC.

Peter.

Re: Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering 2002 - CFP

[Ian Grigg]

"R. A. Hettinga" wrote:

> > The Third Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering Conference
> 
> This is so fucking boring. No one gets laid any more for doing FC.

No, no, NO!!  You are talking about Financial Cryptography,
the conferences running on a bunch of Caribbean islands.

Very different animal :-)  The original goal for a mixed
business and law and accounting and a tad of crypto was
perverted into YACC - yet another crypto conference - and
became very academic, very mathematical, very crypto, very
junior, and very ignorable.

(Even if I do say so myself, having presented two papers
at FC. :-)

Nobody that I ever heard of got laid at FC.  That's why we
started EFCE.  Literally we, the waiting debutantes, got
bored of not getting any after our 3rd (4th?) attempt at
the prom.  How many dresses does a girl have to buy?  So
we rewrote the rules to be a. everything that FC doesn't
do, and b. nothing that FC does.

And it worked.  We got laid, or, at least, some of us did.

As programme chair for the first two EFCEs, I monitored
the mating patterns of FCers with interest.  I found that
one third of the presenters managed to close/advance/secure
deals that moved money into their pockets.

Not huge amounts, I grant you.  FC - the art - really does
suffer from the academic throw-more-formulas at yet-another-
hype-problem legacy of FC - the conference.  People simply
don't expect it to go anywhere because of that.

So when the money turns up (several banks, several regulatory
types, several settlement types) to EFCE, they get caught by
surprise.  Often times, nothing gets consumated because the
guys don't come in the appropriate dress, and have to ask us
ladies for phone numbers instead.

Which is why, when the *2nd* EFCE happened, another 1/3 of
the presenters walked around with knowing, self-satisfied
smiles.

> Who cares for Yet Another Implementation of Something That No One Will Ever
> Use ?

Nobody.  But, you *are* invited to present it at EFCE, and
there you get to tap into the combined market wisdom of
*why* no one will ever use that system.  You won't get that
anywhere else.

You certainly won't get it at FC, as they are mostly
interested in the crypto content, which is not compatible
with a business assessment at all.  Go to FC and you will
hear about voting (with crypto), content protection (with
crypto), cracking machines (of crypto).  Yet another
session on the unworkable CA model (another fine waste of
good crypto).  More crypto than you know what to do with.

Come to EFCE and find out why your business sucks. See how
transactions are done.  Measure them.  Watch them fail.
See how your competitors already thought of it and coded
it several years ago. Watch the presenters get courted by
the audience, with numbers (yes, we rated the presentations
with numbers)!

> We have credit cards. Nothing will ever replace them, in spite of 2%
> transaction fees.

Oh, you are assuming a retail application.  There are many
interesting applications in FC, and retail is only one of
them.  The systems that have succeeded have not done so
within retail.  For example, PayPal succeeded in e-bay
auction settlements.

PS: everything above is past history;  this year I probably
won't make EFCE, and Rodney Thayer is doing the programme
chair.  He might change the dress code somewhat, and other
elements of the courting protocol.  Up to him.

-- 
iang

Re: Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering 2002 - CFP

[R. A. Hettinga]

At 9:30 AM + on 5/11/02, anonimo arancio wrote:


> This is so fucking boring.

So far.

I expect that if someone ever gets around to doing really secure,
instantaneous transactions very cheaply using financial cryptography,
things might get more interesting. My bet is that blind signatures, and
other protocols like them, will make that happen, but my bets were taken by
the house quite a while ago...

Ironically, we should aspire to boredom, as far as those protocols go, as
in boringly ubiquitous...

> No one gets laid any more for doing FC.

Certainly not me, anyway. Sounds like you haven't gotten any since about
Anguilla in 2000, either. ;-).


Pool parties, much less villas with pool parties, are expensive in the
Caymans, much less Bermuda. Your mileage in Edinburgh may vary, I suppose,
but, while the  whiskey rocks, it *is* cold there, even around the Solstice.

Cheers,
RAH
Who went swimming in Tinker's Hole (down, boy...) that time of year and
almost had a heart attack...


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Re: Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering 2002 - CFP

[jamesd]

--
On 11 May 2002 at 9:30, anonimo arancio wrote:
> This is so fucking boring. No one gets laid any more for doing
> FC.
>
> Who cares for Yet Another Implementation of Something That No
> One Will Ever Use ?
>
> We have credit cards. Nothing will ever replace them, in spite
> of 2% transaction fees.

Two percent transaction fees, intolerable rates of internet fraud,
and intolerable rates of chargeback.

Something will replace them.

--digsig
 James A. Donald
 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
 PhQ6X/pNmP6UHTwlb6PPJjv4/sT5ftgqgCzIqhZR
 4LezNEC+/DbYLYx2LL9gtNrkkcwSrJBoA+RbAYTWC

Re: Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering 2002 - CFP

[anonimo arancio]

> The Third Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering Conference

This is so fucking boring. No one gets laid any more for doing FC.

Who cares for Yet Another Implementation of Something That No One Will Ever Use ?

We have credit cards. Nothing will ever replace them, in spite of 2% transaction fees.

Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering 2002 - CFP

[R. A. Hettinga]

--- begin forwarded text


Status:  U
Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 22:31:51 +0200
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], e$@vmeng.com,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Fearghas McKay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering 2002 - CFP
Sender: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

The Third Edinburgh Financial Cryptography Engineering Conference


   28-29 June, 2002

  The Signet Library
  Parliament  Square
  Edinburgh, Scotland


 C  A  L  L F  O  R  P  R  E  S  E  N  T  A  T  I  O  N  S



Edinburgh is again host to the international *engineering* conference
on Financial Cryptography.  Individuals and companies active in the
field are invited to present and especially to demonstrate Running
Code that pushes forward the "state of the art".


STATEMENT OF INTENT

In spite of the excesses and tragedies of the Great Dot Com era,
we have come to the realization that the Internet, Commerce, and
Technology are inextricably related.  We are therefore gathered
together to study, as a community, the application of Cryptograpy
and Information Security to the world of Finance.  For it is Finance
that drives Commerce, and Commerce, in the modern era, is based on the
'net.

This is a technical, practical meet.  Presentations of demonstrable
technology in the field of Financial Cryptography are invited.  As this
is a practical conference, we are hoping to accept every demonstrator.

THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT

This conference is about implementations.  Presentations are required
to demonstrate working code within the first five minutes.  Note that
we are delighted to accept proposals from work-in-progress projects.
If your demo crashes while honorably attempting to execute, the crowd
will still love you.

THE VENUE

Our Venue is the Upper Library, within the Signet Library, which is a
listed building housing the Society of Writers to Her Majesty's Signet.
This exclusive conference venue is located in the centre of Edinburgh,
within the Royal Mile.


ADMINISTRATION

Included in the conference admission will be breakfast, lunch and
tea & coffee breaks.  Also included will be the conference dinner
in a local Edinburgh establishment.

The conference administration will block-book a convenient hotel
in the centre of town.  Details to be advised.


NEXT STEPS FOR PRESENTERS

1. Save the dates 28/29 June 2002, Friday and Saturday on your calendar.

   It is good to plan on a few extra days, and especially, leaving on
   the day after, Sunday, will help to get the best fares.

2. Prepare your presentation.  Check the evolving programme at
   http://www.efce.net/programme.html.
   Propose your presentation by mailing the Programme Chair,
   Rodney Thayer, at [EMAIL PROTECTED]

3. Book passage to Edinburgh. Don't forget to stay a few days on either
   side to see the sights.  Check the site for Locatives and Logistics.

4. Work on your presentation.  Remember, the main rule is that you
   demo working code.

5. Get your budget approved / allocated / applied for.  Whilst a
   commercial conference, accepted presenters will pay a deeply
   discounted fee, to be announced in a forthcoming release.  For
   planning purposes, 200 GBP (approximately 300 dollars or 320
   euros) should cover presenter's admission; the hotel should be
   about 100 GBP ($150 or E160) per night.

   Also include travel and incidentals in your budget.

6. The call for delegates -- attendees who do not present -- will
   by published at a later date.  If there is someone in your
   organisation who needs to survey the state of the financially
   cryptographic art, they can attend as a delegate.  For planning
   purposes, 500 GBP ($750 or E800) should cover the delegate's
   admission.

7. If you think the conference can benefit your organisation,
   consider sponsoring.  Contact the Sponsorship Chair
   Fearghas McKay, [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more details.

8. Keep an eye on the conference web site (www.efce.net)
   for evolving details.


EFCE2002 COMMITTEE

Fearghas McKay  General and Sponsorship Chair<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Rodney Thayer   Programme Chair  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Rachel Willmer  Finance Chair<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


SPONSORSHIP

EFCE is supported by these companies active in Financial Cryptography:

   * Intertrader Ltd, an Edinburgh-based e-payments middleware and
 applications company.
 http://www.intertrader.com/

   * Declarator.net, a supplier of Distributed Trust Appliances.
 http://www.declarator.net/

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'