Re: IP: Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps (fwd)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > >All the more reason to use Linux routers and firewalls. > > Especially if Cisco pulls a Larry Ellison. > > > > -- > > Harmon Seaver, MLIS > > That's fine and dandy for ds1's, and maybe even enough for the majority of > fractional ds3 customers, but how are you going to apply this to people > with oc12 handoffs? Even oc3 handoffs are going to be *really* difficult > boxes to build using COTS/PC technology. > > There's a number of router manufacturers that do a lot more than use PC hardware. This one beats the Cisco 7500: http://www.imagestream-is.com/News_1-26-01.html I'm sure the hardware to deal with oc12s will be soon forthcoming, if it isn't already available. Besides which, if you and I run a vpn between our routers, do we really care if it goes thru a feeb checkpoint? Remailer software could be modified to tunnel between themselves, not just encrypt, etc. Of couse, the whole concept of what they're talking about is impossible to implement. Easy to order, but I can't see how it would ever work in reality, not well enough to keep the net actually functioning. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
Re: IP: Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps (fwd)
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote: >All the more reason to use Linux routers and firewalls. > Especially if Cisco pulls a Larry Ellison. > > -- > Harmon Seaver, MLIS That's fine and dandy for ds1's, and maybe even enough for the majority of fractional ds3 customers, but how are you going to apply this to people with oc12 handoffs? Even oc3 handoffs are going to be *really* difficult boxes to build using COTS/PC technology. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place...
Re: IP: Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps (fwd)
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote: >All the more reason to use Linux routers and firewalls. > Especially if Cisco pulls a Larry Ellison. Nope, Plan 9. http://plan9.bell-labs.com -- The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion. Edmund Burke (1784) The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: IP: Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps (fwd)
All the more reason to use Linux routers and firewalls. Especially if Cisco pulls a Larry Ellison. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
IP: Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps (fwd)
The info in the Interactive Week article is basically the same info from the National Journal article previously posted here, which leads me to suspect that Baker is simply repeating the same rumor to everyone who'll write about it. But. it is interesting that they say "router manufacturers" here. I believe that what Baker "heard" was simply the FBI going out to people like Cisco and some of the larger network providers and people responsible for provisioning NAPs and saying "we want you to implement the additions to IPSEC that the IETF refused to implement". (For background, the FBI, DOJ, DoD -- the "usual suspects" -- had presented a series of recommendations to the IETF last year that would create "packet accounting" features in IPSEC protocols and future IP protocols they were rejected by the IETF, which stated at the time that the idea of creating built-in exploits to a protocol designed for security was counterintuitive. See http://www.ietf.org for more info.) Now, it is entirely possible that given the public pressure arising from the 9-11 attacks, individual manufacturers (read" "Cisco") might bow to such pressure, and build-in some of these features into future products AND into future software builds for existing products. So, I think this is what Baker "heard" -- not that the FBI has any such system in place or would have one anytime soon... rather, that the FBI will re-present these proposals one-on-one with Cisco and a few network providers, and in effect, get the impact of their previously-rejected proposals implemented to cover maybe as much as 80% or more of the traffic in the domestic US. And besides access to the majority of USA packet traffic, they would have access to some part of international traffic too... it's beyong the scope of this email, but keep in mind that many non-USA NAPs are really connected to one another VIA the USA. in effect, bug the USA NAPs, and you get access to almost all the traffic from Pacific Rim countries like Japan, Australia, etc. and you get access to small parts of Western Europe also, not to mention parts of Africa and the Middle East that uplink via satellite instead of a wired connection. An enterprising reporter might make an interesting article out of trying to track down exactly what parts of the IETF proposal the FBI wants (Declan?) and someone could post copies of the draft proposal as first released at ietf.org (JYA?). But I digress :) > Original Message from Sun, 21 Oct 2001 14:14:50 0200 (MET DST):> > > > -- Eugen* Leitl leitl > __ > ICBMTO: N48 04'14.8'' E11 36'41.2'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 > 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 > > -- Forwarded message -- > Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 06:07:48 -0400 > From: David Farber > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: IP: Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps > > > > > >From: Monty Solomon > >Subject: Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps > > > > > >October 18, 2001 > >Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps > >By Max Smetannikov > > > >Expect the FBI to expand its Internet wiretapping program, says a > >source familiar with the plan. > > > >Stewart Baker, a partner with law firm Steptoe & Johnson, is a former > >general counsel to the National Security Agency. He says the FBI has > >spent the last two years developing a new surveillance architecture > >that would concentrate Internet traffic in several key locations > >where all packets, not just e-mail, could be wiretapped. It is now > >planning to begin implementing this architecture using the powers it > >has under existing wiretapping laws. > > > >http://www.interactiveweek.com/article/0,3658,s%3D605%26a% 253D16678,00.asp > > > For archives see: > http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ > > > > ___ WANT YOUR OWN FREE AND SECURE WEB EMAIL ADDRESS? Visit http://www.fastcircle.com
IP: Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps (fwd)
-- Eugen* Leitl http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204/";>leitl __ ICBMTO: N48 04'14.8'' E11 36'41.2'' http://www.lrz.de/~ui22204 57F9CFD3: ED90 0433 EB74 E4A9 537F CFF5 86E7 629B 57F9 CFD3 -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 06:07:48 -0400 From: David Farber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: IP: Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps > >From: Monty Solomon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps > > >October 18, 2001 >Beyond Carnivore: FBI Eyes Packet Taps >By Max Smetannikov > >Expect the FBI to expand its Internet wiretapping program, says a >source familiar with the plan. > >Stewart Baker, a partner with law firm Steptoe & Johnson, is a former >general counsel to the National Security Agency. He says the FBI has >spent the last two years developing a new surveillance architecture >that would concentrate Internet traffic in several key locations >where all packets, not just e-mail, could be wiretapped. It is now >planning to begin implementing this architecture using the powers it >has under existing wiretapping laws. > >http://www.interactiveweek.com/article/0,3658,s%253D605%2526a%253D16678,00.asp For archives see: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/
