Re: Enemy at the Door
At 11:45 PM 11/7/01 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Go tell that to the Seattle/Portland/wherever wireless people. Or the >people in rural MN who are putting them up on silos and running a 10 mile >radius. Totally depends on your topography. And even with p-p they aren't >doing parabolics, more like yagi directionals, which could be just another >TV antenna, cut to the harmonic. > Gee, maybe they'll start raiding home with TV antennas. > The pages about 'pringle's chip canister yagis' show a piece of plumbing PVC enclosing the final package, a tube about the size of an arm. It doesn't look like a TV antenna, more like the microwave uplinks (Funny that.) from mobile tv vans, though those are usually helical. So the Ghz yagi is readily hidden. The 802.11 hacks claim a good 15 db with a homemade yagi. I think the RF deal is that you can't scale a yagi as far as you can a dish -past some number of segments the yagi doesn't give you more, but a dish keeps on giving (Areceibo for instance...) if you have the space for it and can take the wind.
Re: Enemy at the Door
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Go tell that to the Seattle/Portland/wherever wireless people. Don't have to, see the commentary about 'if...directional...' Yagi's won't do that sort of distance either, maybe 3-5 miles. Blipverts (and probably never having actually touched a wireless card) strike again. > Jim Choate wrote: > > > yards w/ 802.11b and maybe a mile with 802.11a. Now if you're talking > > directional then it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to ask "Where does > > that nifty parabolic point? Why, at that other nifty parabolic. Well, > > gentlemen, how's 'bout we take 'em both down?" -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: Enemy at the Door
Go tell that to the Seattle/Portland/wherever wireless people. Or the people in rural MN who are putting them up on silos and running a 10 mile radius. Totally depends on your topography. And even with p-p they aren't doing parabolics, more like yagi directionals, which could be just another TV antenna, cut to the harmonic. Gee, maybe they'll start raiding home with TV antennas. Jim Choate wrote: > On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > Duh! Read it again. "802.11'd to DSL to a very remote web site?" That > > DSL line could be clear across town. > > Not with 802.11 anything will it be 'clear across town'. A few hundred > yards w/ 802.11b and maybe a mile with 802.11a. Now if you're talking > directional then it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to ask "Where does > that nifty parabolic point? Why, at that other nifty parabolic. Well, > gentlemen, how's 'bout we take 'em both down?" > > If you want distance you'll either have to add an illegal final or else > use packet or some other mechanism (probably illegaly as well). > > -- > > > Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. > > Bumper Sticker > >The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate >Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] >www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 >-~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- > -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
Re: Enemy at the Door
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Dave Emery wrote: > I have read reports of people running WiFi links of up to 20 > miles. ONLY with a high gain parabolic. Not with a omni. Further, all it takes to find the other dish is look down that line of site. They're cheap cards, less than $100 each. The 802.11a, which are higher frequency, higher bandwidth came out last month. The AP's are supposed to hit the street on or right after the 15'th of this month. I'm going with 802.11a myself. The 'b' stuff seems a tad to kid toyish to me. YMMV. -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: Enemy at the Door
On Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:01:10PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote: > > > Duh! Read it again. "802.11'd to DSL to a very remote web site?" That > > DSL line could be clear across town. > > Not with 802.11 anything will it be 'clear across town'. A few hundred > yards w/ 802.11b and maybe a mile with 802.11a. Now if you're talking > directional then it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to ask "Where does > that nifty parabolic point? Why, at that other nifty parabolic. Well, > gentlemen, how's 'bout we take 'em both down?" > > If you want distance you'll either have to add an illegal final or else > use packet or some other mechanism (probably illegaly as well). > I have read reports of people running WiFi links of up to 20 miles. Given a clear path (clear line of sight) and relatively modest sized directional antennas (not huge suspicious looking dishes) which can be concealed under rf transparent radomes (hidden in an attic for example with appropriate (fiberglass) roofing or siding, or behind a glass picture window with curtains drawn) getting 10 to 20 mile ranges is pretty easy with gain antennas on either end... not rocket science either... and quite hard to spot visually (though of course a spectrum analyzer with good preamps and antennas will find and locate any hidden 802.11 link in no time flat - one cannot radiate rf from a fixed location and not be easily found using common TSCM tools). -- Dave Emery N1PRE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18
Re: Enemy at the Door
As someone else mentioned, "Seattle Wireless" scenario, or some form of packet radio, or Which broadband line would they disconecct? And what would those people think? Gee, the stock market T1 just went down. Anyway, so it's broadcasting 802, and the perps already know all the possible receivers? Now, maybe they could start jamming 802 -- or all the possible frequencies --- 8-) Duh! Declan McCullagh wrote: > Fortunately I do not lack the ability to comprehend modern English, but I > do lack the ability to read into a statement what is not there. Even if > your suggestion was intended, that DSL line could be shut down as well, > which was the point my response was intended to address. > > -Declan > > At 10:45 PM 11/7/2001 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: > >Duh! Read it again. "802.11'd to DSL to a very remote web site?" That > >DSL line could be clear across town. > > > > > >Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > > > Yes, but then your clandestine midnight droppers-by could disconnect > > > your DSL service in advance. You'd have to couple your DSLcam with a > > > remote is-it-alive pinging service from a secure location... > > > > > > -Declan > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:40:48AM -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > > > > >> Of course you could connect an automated firearm. > > > > > > > > Think of the opportunity to market dedicated camera + > > > > uplink devices... battery powered lest the dark visitors > > > > check the outlets? 802.11'd to DSL to a very remote web site? > > > >-- > >Harmon Seaver, MLIS > >CyberShamanix > >Work 920-203-9633 > >Home 920-233-5820 > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
Re: Enemy at the Door
On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote: > Duh! Read it again. "802.11'd to DSL to a very remote web site?" That > DSL line could be clear across town. Not with 802.11 anything will it be 'clear across town'. A few hundred yards w/ 802.11b and maybe a mile with 802.11a. Now if you're talking directional then it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to ask "Where does that nifty parabolic point? Why, at that other nifty parabolic. Well, gentlemen, how's 'bout we take 'em both down?" If you want distance you'll either have to add an illegal final or else use packet or some other mechanism (probably illegaly as well). -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: Enemy at the Door
Fortunately I do not lack the ability to comprehend modern English, but I do lack the ability to read into a statement what is not there. Even if your suggestion was intended, that DSL line could be shut down as well, which was the point my response was intended to address. -Declan At 10:45 PM 11/7/2001 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: >Duh! Read it again. "802.11'd to DSL to a very remote web site?" That >DSL line could be clear across town. > > >Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > Yes, but then your clandestine midnight droppers-by could disconnect > > your DSL service in advance. You'd have to couple your DSLcam with a > > remote is-it-alive pinging service from a secure location... > > > > -Declan > > > > On Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:40:48AM -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > > > >> Of course you could connect an automated firearm. > > > > > > Think of the opportunity to market dedicated camera + > > > uplink devices... battery powered lest the dark visitors > > > check the outlets? 802.11'd to DSL to a very remote web site? > >-- >Harmon Seaver, MLIS >CyberShamanix >Work 920-203-9633 >Home 920-233-5820 >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
Re: More silly stuff ( was RE: Enemy at the Door )
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Nomen Nescio wrote: > Much funnier would be a spray of DMSO mixed with DMT. And reapplyed evertime Pihkal -- Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::>/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Re: Enemy at the Door
Duh! Read it again. "802.11'd to DSL to a very remote web site?" That DSL line could be clear across town. Declan McCullagh wrote: > Yes, but then your clandestine midnight droppers-by could disconnect > your DSL service in advance. You'd have to couple your DSLcam with a > remote is-it-alive pinging service from a secure location... > > -Declan > > On Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:40:48AM -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > > >> Of course you could connect an automated firearm. > > > > Think of the opportunity to market dedicated camera + > > uplink devices... battery powered lest the dark visitors > > check the outlets? 802.11'd to DSL to a very remote web site? -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html
More silly stuff ( was RE: Enemy at the Door )
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : > Of course you could connect an automated firearm. (Crime Stoppers Note: > aways aim for the head to avoid protective vests) Any lawyers on the list > know what penalties might be brought. I seem to recall that tying a > shotgun to the door knob was ruled an "indescriminate weapon" But a > FaceCam controlled gun wouldn't be indescriminate. > > ks > mmotyka says: A deadly weapon triggered by unreliable SW using a nonexistant database would just give away the fact that you're on to the enemy and cause you undue legal grief. If your own surveillance remains a secret you're in a stronger position. Besides, should you care to tip your hand you might start with something simpler like indelible purple dye. IIRC human skin has a replacement period of ~3 weeks. Chances are your intruders would be from some local or regional installation. Purple people shouldn't be too tough to spot as they make their way to the office and home again ( unless you live in California ). Your more aggressive tactics could then be employed at a time and place of your choosing. Much funnier would be a spray of DMSO mixed with DMT. And reapplyed evertime they tried to get up. That way, if you made a mistake, and it got you -- oh well. But for a tensed up, uptight LEO -- he'd probably never recover. And still be there babbling for you to have a little fun with when you got home.
Re: Enemy at the Door
Yes, but then your clandestine midnight droppers-by could disconnect your DSL service in advance. You'd have to couple your DSLcam with a remote is-it-alive pinging service from a secure location... -Declan On Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 11:40:48AM -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: > >> Of course you could connect an automated firearm. > > Think of the opportunity to market dedicated camera + > uplink devices... battery powered lest the dark visitors > check the outlets? 802.11'd to DSL to a very remote web site?
More silly stuff ( was RE: Enemy at the Door )
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : > Of course you could connect an automated firearm. (Crime Stoppers Note: > aways aim for the head to avoid protective vests) Any lawyers on the list > know what penalties might be brought. I seem to recall that tying a > shotgun to the door knob was ruled an "indescriminate weapon" But a > FaceCam controlled gun wouldn't be indescriminate. > > ks > A deadly weapon triggered by unreliable SW using a nonexistant database would just give away the fact that you're on to the enemy and cause you undue legal grief. If your own surveillance remains a secret you're in a stronger position. Besides, should you care to tip your hand you might start with something simpler like indelible purple dye. IIRC human skin has a replacement period of ~3 weeks. Chances are your intruders would be from some local or regional installation. Purple people shouldn't be too tough to spot as they make their way to the office and home again ( unless you live in California ). Your more aggressive tactics could then be employed at a time and place of your choosing.
