Re: CDR: Re: cell phone guns
On Saturday, December 29, 2001, at 06:26 PM, david wrote: On Saturday 29 December 2001 05:00 pm, Faustine wrote: Hm, whatever works, I guess. Sheer stealth isn't as much a factor for me as is accuracy, reliability and being able to avoid the woman with a peashooter image. All rhetoric aside (but with all that in mind) I've actually been thinking of getting a 9mm, something along the lines of a Glock 26, a Kahr P9 or maybe a Sig-Sauer P239. Any thoughts? I have a Glock M17 and M21. They are both extremely accurate and reliable. Glocks are serious gun fighter's weapons because they have no extra bells and whistles like external safeties and hammer decockers. They also don't have Um. No, they are serious fighters weapons because they are simple, robust and reliable. But mostly robust and reliable. If you're looking for a firearm, after reliability the most important thing is ergonomics. I've owned a Beretta 92, a Tanfoglio (eaa witness) .45, and a HK P7. I've fired glocks, Sigs, Browning Hi-powers (and clones/redesigns) and a wide variety of 1911s. I can't stand the way the glocks and most of the 1911s fit my hand, they don't feel right, while the browning Hi-power, the HK P7, Beretta etc. all felt good. The P7 being the best IMO. Just about any contemporary pistol is going to be robust and reliable as long as you don't make too many modifications to it. I suggest that you consider a .40 instead of a 9mm. You should always carry the largest gun in the in the biggest caliber you can control and conceal. The real world energy difference between a .40 and a 9mm is not worth talking about. The most important thing with a pistol is accuracy. There are two ways to achieve good accuracy, one is to be born with a natural talent. The other is to practice practice, practice. With 9mm being significantly cheaper than .40, you can practice a lot more for the same dollar. 9mm has been killing and wounding people for many years. The bigger the gun the easier and faster it is to shoot accurately. The bigger the caliber the more stopping power. The reason the US military switched to .45 caliber handguns is becuause .38 caliber handguns were so ineffective against the Moros in the Phillipines. Then again, we don't have many scientific studies on the effectiveness of the .45 against them either. Since 9mm is .36 caliber, .38 the military has basicially returned to a caliber proven to be not up to the task. Glock offers .40 in each of the frame sizes it offers 9mm in. -- Those without creative minds and agile fingers are of course welcome to hurry up with my fries. And they'll probably use a GUI to take my order, too. - Tom Christiansen
Re: cell phone guns
At 08:26 PM 12/29/01 -0600, david wrote: On Saturday 29 December 2001 05:00 pm, Faustine wrote: Hm, whatever works, I guess. Sheer stealth isn't as much a factor for me as is accuracy I don't think the yugo cellphone .22 has been taken to the range by an American gun rag yet... Thunder Ranch (tm) evaluates the 4-shot .22lr cellphone from Milosevic Industries Obviously stealth was *the* major criterion for that design. When George W. was governor Ho ho, a Texan. That being said, a .22 in your pocket beats a .45 you left at home any day. I carry a North American Arms five shot mini revolver in my front pocket. In Calif you can't buy these as of last year, and 'deceptive' packaging (like a wallet gun) is illegal. They boil frogs slowly here. IANAL
Re: cell phone guns
At 7:33 AM -0800 12/29/01, David Honig wrote: Mossad prefers suppressed Berretta .22 which doesn't need racking. Actually they're fond of using the single action Beretta model 70s in .22lr. I believe that's what arms designer Gerald Bull was killed with. http://216.117.150.77/beretta/70_us.html. Regards, Matt ** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **
Re: cell phone guns
At 02:52 PM 12/30/01 -0500, Matthew Gaylor wrote: At 7:33 AM -0800 12/29/01, David Honig wrote: Mossad prefers suppressed Berretta .22 which doesn't need racking. Actually they're fond of using the single action Beretta model 70s in .22lr. I believe that's what arms designer Gerald Bull was killed with. http://216.117.150.77/beretta/70_us.html. The motivation I understood for the B 22's is that the tip up barrel means you don't have to rack a slide.
Re: cell phone guns
On Sunday 30 December 2001 07:37 pm, Harmon Seaver wrote: Nobody, but nobody, walks around with an empty chamber, whatever the caliber. Last I heard the Isreali military still did. An empty chamber was US military standard carry until the switch from 1911 the Beretta. The military was the last to hear about the Modern Technique of the Pistol. David Neilson
Re: cell phone guns
At 07:37 PM 12/30/01 -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: This makes little sense. There are a great many .22 pistols which have external hammers or an sufficient safety. Why would you have to rack a slide, other than when you first loaded. With most, if not all, semi-auto handguns, you always carry a round in the chamber anyway, for one, to be ready, for two because it's one more round. Nobody, but nobody, walks around with an empty chamber, whatever the caliber. Ok. I have no personal knowledge. Fentanyl squirts in the ear are subtler unless you're busted.
Re: cell phone guns
At 8:01 PM -0600 12/30/01, david wrote: On Sunday 30 December 2001 07:37 pm, Harmon Seaver wrote: Nobody, but nobody, walks around with an empty chamber, whatever the caliber. Last I heard the Isreali military still did. This is correct- Col. Cooper had some interesting things to say about the Israelis- http://www.jpate.freeserve.co.uk/JeffCooper/jeff5_7.html A couple of correspondents have asked us recently what we think of the Israeli flat stance in defensive pistol shooting. If you have seen the training films you know that the Israeli procedure is to rotate the pistol 90 degrees to the left so as to make it easier to operate the slide when the pistol is pointed at the target. It has been pointed out to me that a number of cinema presentations have featured this technique - apparently in an attempt to latch onto anything new. It happens that Mossad, the Israeli attack squad, fancies the use of the 22 pistol as a murder weapon. This is quite sound when the pistol is used in a totally offensive mode, since the subject is confronted just out of arm's length and hit ten times quickly in the chest area. Ten 22-caliber holes in the thorax are fatal, as any qualified thoracic surgeon will tell you. In employing this system the weapon is carried in Condition 3 until the moment of confrontation, whereupon it is drawn, pointed straight out and the action is racked with the left hand. This is somewhat easier to do if the weapon is held flat rather than vertically. Accuracy does not matter and sights do not matter. Ten quick hits will do the job, whereupon the agent drops the pistol at the scene (for the laboratory to puzzle over) and walks quickly away. Since the pistol is a totally defensive weapon, this Israeli flat technique is of only academic interest to us. Regards, Matt- ** Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues Send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the words subscribe FA on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week) Matthew Gaylor, (614) 313-5722 ICQ: 106212065 Archived at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fa/ **
Re: cell phone guns
At 03:16 PM 12/28/01 -0800, Eric Murray wrote: 22 caliber four-shot pistol hidden inside a cell phone, uncovered during police raids in Europe. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/phone001205.html Cell phone users will have to be made aware that reaching for their phones in some circumstances could be misinterpreted as a threat by authorities FWIW Old news. The yugos were said to have this, a picture was published, over 6 months ago.
Re: cell phone guns
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 At 06:54 PM 12/28/01 -0500, Faustine wrote: Not surprising, since cell phone holster decoys have been around for ages. Why settle for a .22 when you could be packing a Glock 30? Better stealth. I like the NAA .22 belt buckle. Can also fit inside a beeper case. Mossad prefers suppressed Berretta .22 which doesn't need racking. Hm, whatever works, I guess. Sheer stealth isn't as much a factor for me as is accuracy, reliability and being able to avoid the woman with a peashooter image. All rhetoric aside (but with all that in mind) I've actually been thinking of getting a 9mm, something along the lines of a Glock 26, a Kahr P9 or maybe a Sig-Sauer P239. Any thoughts? I know there's no substitute for getting out there and firing them at a range to see what I'm comfortable with, but if anyone has any recommendations, better suggestions, which 9mm to avoid, etc. I'd appreciate it. ~Faustine. *** Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would. - --John Adams -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA/AwUBPC5LIfg5Tuca7bfvEQKIyACbBmjXCMeeeYVRJyKZXX1RVM3kUskAoM2S QBFXBjlKLqElf9F9VhRYuReW =82tr -END PGP SIGNATURE-
